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Thread: Hayasdan guide

  1. #1

    Default Hayasdan guide

    I have been trying to get a hayasdan campaign going but their units are soooooooooooooo horrible at the start and money is not there EVER. I was wondering how in the hell do you get going at the start of the hayasdan campaign? I attack one of the towns above my capital with alllll my units, but I lose mostly all of them and no money to recruit more. I am not going to wait 100 years for my money to be positive to start playing the campiagn.
    Last edited by SuperGosc; 04-13-2008 at 22:09.

  2. #2
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    Their units are fairly good for cheap rabble units. Disband any expensive upkeep cavalry and start taking cities in the mountains. If you can take one or two cities, you should be able to make some money. And don't forget to immediately go north and make peace with the horsemen.

    Also, your general is an awesome cavalry unit.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    Try to take the caucausus mountains and start making mines....if it includes disbanding EVERYTHING for liek 3 turns...do it...

    just be wary of the gray death............

  4. #4
    Member Member soibean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    I just started up a hayasdan campaign and am doing quite well. I haven't played as them since.81 so Im really pleased about what's been done with them.
    Anyway back to advise. I am playing on M/M for this campaign because I can't stand how idiotic the AI can be when it comes to ceasefires and diplomacy. At least on Medium they accept when they are losing... even if they do attack you the very next turn more often than not.
    I started off by merging the 3 small armies into one larger army and taking the two towns to the north. I didn't enslave or exterminate the towns because I remember in the past I received a trait saying that I enslave my own people, but I don't know if that is still around. I made peace with the Sarumatae (even pulled 10k out of the deal) and haven't heard from them since. At this point I built up roads and whatever economic buildings I could.
    It is immensely important to put forts up in the mountain passes to the south. Use some of your crappy infantry (hopefully you have some saved who were just about decimated and have about 10 guys left over) and place them in the forts. The Seleukids have always attacked me within 5 years, yet they will always attack the forts first if they are blocking their path and this will give you at least a year to prepare as they besiege and then make their way to your city.
    When they first attack you, make a rush for the city to the south west that starts with a K... I can't remember the spelling but by the time I reached it, there was a mine within that gives me an additional grand per turn. Continue placing forts to impede the progress of their advance while you use your real army to raid their frontier towns. Don't plan on keeping these towns (except for that K town if at all possible) but rather enslave their people and destroy their military buildings and infrastructure then leave one crappy unit within so they have to besiege you to get the city back. All of this looting will give you enough money to create new armies to continue your raiding.
    I decided to take over the other rebel towns in the mountains and placing forts. After wiping out 3 of their towns of their infrastructure and keeping the K town, I was able to get a cease fire offer. Peace for a year was a nice reward. 20 years later it has just been war every other year (by now I don't keep a standing army but rather recruit mercs and am working on the reforms so I get better factional units), but I am still slowly taking all of their valuable provinces away.
    I've found with the Hayasdan that you have to be lucky. Sometimes the Seleukids slam you with the brunt of their army and there is only so much you can do against stack after stack. If you are lucky and they attack from one certain area with small armies that you can hurt through attrition then you have a chance at a fun campaign.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    Excellent guide, thanks very much! Hope this gets in the AAR/Guides forum.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    Here are some of my thoughts from my hayasdan campaign which is at 235bc.

    One of the best defenses against the AS is archers from the walls. Eastern archers have great range and against the AI can decimate an enemy force while your infantry is marching out to fight. I've had several AS armies route just from archer fire alone.

    By upgrading your barracks you can eventually recruit the basic hellenic phalanx which is to me the best infantry you can get in the early years.

    I have not seen the saromatae since getting a cease fire from them and its now 235bc.

    Try and get the Black sea coastal cities as early as possible as they can generate alot of trade.

    i'm trying not to laugh too much watching my ally Bactria's diplomat run around bribing AS armies-- so far by my count he's snatched about 15 units.

  7. #7
    Member Member Minister of Fear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    You just have to be agressive from the start. I avoided attacking/ beseiging rebel cities and focussed on absorbing the Seleucid cities closest to me. Then I created a full stack, imagined myself a Mongol khan and went about filling my coffers with gold as I went through and raised almost every Seleucid city to my south east. As I did this I upgraded my mines and beseiged and absorbed the remaining two rebel cities in the Caucasus. If you can get this far you're in a reasonably strong position. Happy hunting.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    I think you mean 'razed' not 'raised' ;)

  9. #9
    Member Member Minister of Fear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    Yes, you're right Titus. Between you and me, I 'raised' them into the air and then released them into the sand. The effect of this was to have razed them.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    If you have blunted the Seleucids enough that you can send an army rampaging through Persia and put Babylon to the torch without losing settlements on another front then by all means do it. It will be a massive boost to your income even if you can't keep the settlements, and it will hamper the AI.

    After assembling a suitable army for the first time I had to postpone my invasion plans for five years running because the Seleucids kept sending new forces into the mountains and my invasion army was the only force large enough to keep them at bay.

    As for unit tactics, the key for me was archers and slingers to disrupt the enemy, spearmen to hold them, and family members to break them. I tried to bring along some horse archers for harassment and to chase down fleeing troops but they're not essential.

    Deploy your spearmen in a line, deploy your archers behind it, put any cavalry on the wings. One unit archers or slingers for every unit of spearmen, minimum. You're gonna be on the defensive a lot and you're gonna have a hill or a mountain to stick your archers on, so this is going to work in your favour, but even on the offensive it works.

    The ideal is to have your archers fire til their quivers are empty at the advancing enemy. When they reach your lines the spearmen will hold even the most determined phalanx for long enough. Your family members (you should have two or more in every army) will have moved around the rear and can alternate at charging the enemy until they break

    If the enemy has some archers or, even worse, more archers than you, then make every effort to take them out of the battle. You don't want an archery duel. Keep the enemy archers busy reacting to your cavalry charges while your archers are firing and you should come out of most battles just fine.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    The thing with Hayasdan is that you can use two strategies when it comes to what units to use.

    One strategy is just what palmtree mentioned. using slingers and archers to weaken the enemy, then using low end spear armed infantry to keep the enemy at bay while your bodyguard units crush them from behind. This said, Hayasdan also has access to medium sword armed infantry "Srakir Martikner" They do well against all sorts of units except phalanx type infantry. I would allso like to mention using the noble infantry units "Aznvakan Tiknapah" now these units are on par with the best of the best infantry in the game. Their secondary weapon is a long sword with a high leathality. These units cause alot of damage.

    The second startegy is using horse archers to win your battles. I for example use the steppe riders. These are the horse archers who have a spear that can muster a good charge. What I do is attack one phalanx unit from the back with one unit of the steppe riders, and when the unit turns around to meet the threath I unleash about 3-5 units of the steppe riders on to their rear. This simple strategy will break the most elite phalanx unit in the game.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    The medium sword infantry is expensive though, both to recruit and in upkeep, and won't stand up to a phalanx much better than the cheap spearmen. Since phalanxes are going to be your main headache for the forseeable future in any Hai campaign I never found it worthwhile to include any sword infantry in my armies. They're useful for assaulting walls, but recruiting mercenaries when you need them and disbanding them afterwards is cheaper in the long run and they tend to be better equipped too.

    Speaking of walls, another reason why an archer heavy force is amazing is the abundance of settlements with nothing but wooden walls in the region. You can use their fortifications against them by putting your archers outside, firing in. Against the ai, which doesn't have the sense to pull back to the town center properly, you'll decimate enemy forces.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    The key to doing well with the Armenians is to make use of horse archers and your awesome general units that you get for free whenever a family member is born ;)

  14. #14
    Member Member Clibanarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hayasdan guide

    As Morshu says, cultivate your family and eventually you will have a big enough heavy cavalry force to carve out a decent empire even if you haven't conquered many cities. Hayasdan lives up to its "Nigh Impossible" rating unless you are very careful or lucky early on. My capture order for the Caucasian cities is Ani-Kamah, Trebzous, Mtsketa, Kotais then Phraphsa. Capturing Kotais or Mtsketa first seems to encourage a Sauromatae attack, and taking Phraphsa provokes the Seleucid. I find it necessary to rely heavily on archers and forts early on until mines are up and running. Lots of good advice on using forts in the posts from 2008!

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