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Thread: Feedback wanted!

  1. #31
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Oh, also the difference between the sword and katana animations are slight, but if you give the katana animation to an officer, while the footmen he leads use the sword anim, you can see a difference. Sword is a more rigidly held vertical, while katana has the sword tilted back. Just a matter of preference. Same with the new bow anim, it's just tilted slightly more vertically.

    Do the Chinese!

  2. #32
    Member Member Ticu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Rinsui, could you please reply to my response your the response to my long pm? It's back on the first page. :P

  3. #33
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    @Ticu
    Ha. Interesting. Your post seems to have slipped through my net of attention, sorry!
    We can talk about the launching attribute, agreed. Perhaps I am too inspired by
    modern chinese films (Hero, The Banquet and all those mass-produced clones China
    punches out at the moment to satisfy growing demand and to distract people). The
    Hero units will have to be overhauled anyway - as you said, radius and the like is not
    really perfect. However, I wanted to do this along with the first round of general
    balancing (4 factions and the custom battlemaps are finished... time for some first
    Multiplayer Beta tests?). Perhaps this weekend? Or somewhere around tuesday...

    The attack speed attribute in the EDU you mean, I guess. Second number from the
    back in the pri and sec attack lines? Yes, I know that. The Hong Shue Fei (red poppy
    version) will become the Yuwan heroine (Lit Sin Seen), btw.

    My problem with the rebel UI and the white rebel flags is, that they will show up
    in multiplayer, too - interestingly, the rebels in the campaign game have correct flags.
    I was able to change the UI for all factions - except for the Rebels. And those will
    be usable in multiplayer, too. I guess I'll find a way to solve this sooner or later, yes.
    But Kitagata cries "Do me the Chinese! Do me the Chinese!" all over ^^/

    By the way, Kitagata: if I implement the units which need new sounds first (Firelances,
    Chinese gun, Hwa'cha...), can I count on your skills at integrating the new sound files
    as before for the Gor-haw trumpet? If so, I'll start with those...
    Rinsui

  4. #34
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Sure.
    I can't promise everything, because units are a good deal different than the engines and I haven't found a decent tutorial on the subject, but I've pretty much figured out how it works. The problem again though, is that there are some bugs in the firelance projectile files. Thunderbombs and vanara peaches too. They won't accept sound effects for the impact and kill animations. I don't know how that works and I don't have the software to change the actual CAS files. Unless that gets figured out, I can only add sounds to the firing animation. Plus I tried listening to the old firelances, and strangely they have a group firing sound of bows, plus an individual firing sound of javelins or slings, so I don't really even know how or where the 'flaming_fireworks' description from descr_export_unit and it's animation files are linking to in sounds. Strange.
    But, I'll give it a shot, and since that'd be unpacking the SFX file, if anyone has some fun sounds for dragons, shi shi, and the like, I could try putting that in too.
    Maybe the mod inquiry board can help...

  5. #35
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Ok. I'll try to finish all the units which need new sounds by Sunday.
    Well, at least those I think that will. New sounds for the Shishi, Dragons and
    Wang Liang are a nice idea, but will mean a lot of work. It will suffice if you
    can finish the Roaring Thunderdragon (Chinese Cannon) and perhaps the Sunogung,
    the Singijeon and the Hwa'cha (all three Choson) for now. I'll do my best.
    Greetings,
    Rinsui

  6. #36
    Member Member Ticu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    That would be great!
    Rinsui, was there a task you wanted me to do? Perhaps you did give me one, but I might have missed it.

  7. #37
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Yes, sure. But I┤m not at home right now...
    I`ll PM you later.
    Rinsui

  8. #38
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Just an idea but you might want to call the mongol stormriders mangudai. And make them alike.

  9. #39
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Try "The Gimp". Extremely powerful at an extremely good price - it costs nothing.
    That's what I am using, and I think my skins are not that bad.

    Be sure to download the windows version:
    http://www.gimp.org/downloads/

    @Moros: Mangudai, it will be.
    Last edited by Rinsui; 06-08-2008 at 13:44.
    Rinsui

  10. #40
    Member Member TigerVX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Just wondering, when will the Campaign come back in working condition? This was the absolute most attractive feature of Blue Lotus to me, and having a bunch of dummies fighting over a map isn't as much fun as you'd think it would be.

    Also, my main menu's seem to lag horribly, the cursor is going at about .5 FPS and its a real struggle to get anywhere, but once I start the campaign or a custom battle its instantly lag free, any idea why it does this?

    Love the new animations and units though, keep up the good work!
    Last edited by TigerVX; 06-08-2008 at 23:15.

  11. #41
    Member Member Ticu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    I have no idea when the next releasable version will be out. Rinsui would know more about that. Perhaps one way to fix the menu speed would be to go to the preferences file and disable the background fmv.

    Anyway, Kitagata, those are awesome loading screens! They are much more diverse than the old ones. I hope Rinsui uses them in the mod.

  12. #42
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Rinsui, thanks for the tip about GIMP, man. I'm overwhelmed with the options abilities of the thing!
    Re-did the loading screens to a much better overall quality. Stuck 'em here for viewing if you want.

    http://files.filefront.com/Loading+s.../fileinfo.html

    (anyone know how to erase previous posts? I'd like to get rid of the previous post with the crappier loading image link.)

    Also included is a Tibetan chant sound that might be useful for a unit that has druid/chant skill. There are a few more cannon sounds as well. Again, yours were fine, but I just felt like they didn't quite have the sound quality of some of the others floating around SE databases.

    Finally, the Dalit scouts are standing in their horses in the latest beta out. Small thing, didn't know if it had been noticed yet or not.

  13. #43
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Post erased.
    I'll have a look at the new loading screens asap.
    Sorry for the delay, but the implementation of a new siege unit (hwacha) is more problematic than I expected - I can't get it to fire the firelance rockets. Thanks for the hint concerning the dalit scouts. This should be easy to correct.
    Basically all monk type units will ave the ability to chant. If you can put in their sounds, go ahead!
    Please give me another day or two, because I just started with a job. I have to sort this stupid hwacha problem out, then I'll immediately do the rest... or wait. I'll do it the other way round. Next patch this Wednesday (GMT).
    Rinsui

  14. #44
    Member Member TigerVX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticu View Post
    I have no idea when the next releasable version will be out. Rinsui would know more about that. Perhaps one way to fix the menu speed would be to go to the preferences file and disable the background fmv.
    Thanks Ticu, disabling the FMV fixed my menu, no more lag!

    And for the campaign, I was more just wondering if the campaign had been scratched for now in lue of multiplayer work, or if we'll see it coming back very soon, not so much an actual release date. If you guys don't plan to implement the campaign anytime soon, can you repost a link to the old Blue Lotus version?

  15. #45
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Ok! I just took a look at the new loading screens. You are definitely right - having just Japanese ones feels "unfair" somehow. Most of those you provided are pretty good - but we will have to find a way to make them all appear as a "harmonic unity", if you get my point. For example, mixing black-and white sumi-e (screen 3) with modern-day impressionism (screen ) will (personal opinion here!) look interesting at first, but may disturb the whole atmosphere in the long run, perhaps. Screen 15 is very, very beautiful indeed. But alas, it is hard to deny it was taken from some present-day computer game, and is far from authenticity. As many of those screens are very interesting indeed, if you allow, I'll try to work some GIMP magic on them to "hammer them into unity". I'll include them into the wednesday release, and if you disagree, we will discuss this in public here.
    Greetings,
    and many thanks for the hard work,
    Rinsui

    @TigerVX the campaign map will be done once all units are overhauled. Interestingly, the Title Screen slowdown does not appear for me - everything is absolutely fluent. However, I know well what you are talking about, since I experienced the same with my old computer. The origin of this bug are unknown at this date; for now, Ticu has the best solution.
    Last edited by Rinsui; 06-10-2008 at 13:33.
    Rinsui

  16. #46
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Was messing around with the sound files and decided to give the Chinese factions' leopards actual leopard sounds.

    Here's the result.

    http://files.filefront.com/New+Leopa.../fileinfo.html

    Now they don't bark!

    Sorry for the large file, but the entire voice3.dat had to be changed and included to keep it simple for installation and testing; otherwise I'd have had to include info on xidx usage, which I didn't want to get into.
    The leopards were relatively simple to do, so if you like the results, I'll give a shot at the shishi, dragons, etc.

    No problem with the loading screens. #15 is kinda hokey, I was just running out of image ideas. I'll make a new one, but I'd argue to keep the two screens with the modern samurai images.
    I'm happy to take them out if you want, but it is a little tricky to find continent-spanning art on war and demons that meld perfectly:)

  17. #47
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Important notice on the new leopard sounds.
    Was testing them some more, and was occasionally getting random CTDs in battle (but usually occuring at initial contact) until I figured out the following:
    On each of the wav files, open up properties, and at the bottom if it says that the computer may block them since they're from a different computer, click allow and apply.
    Then go into the the three txt files (unit_ambiant, anim, idle) and remove these six sounds under each one's 'dog' category:

    cat_idle4
    cat_attack4
    cat_snarl1
    cat_snarl2
    cat_snarl4
    cat_snarl_attack1

    These sounds aren't coded to rtw's liking apparently (strictly WAV, Channels/mono, Audio format PCM) and while it will play them, it will also choose to crash during battle, especially during initial contact.

    Once gone the leopards work fine and growl and snap appropriately.

  18. #48
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    You can easily decode them to the correct ADPCM format with a free audio program called Audacity. That's what I used for encoding some remastered sounds from the Latin Voice mod.

  19. #49
    Member Member Ticu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    And... I'm still waiting for that assignment.

  20. #50
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Sounds for the new Korean artillery and fixed impact sounds for the Chinese, Indian, and Demon artillery.

    http://files.filefront.com/Integrate.../fileinfo.html

    Also you may want to shorten the 'mindist' for the Hwacha. The crew stop firing and draw swords way too early it seems.
    Also the shots from the Chinese and Indian cannons are beautiful, but they don't hit with enough impact. It can strike the center of a unit and only send two or three soldiers flying. I think you should adjust the radius of effect a little.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Hello !

    Played a bit of this new BL, like it lots, cant wait campaign units!

    Maybe you should reconsider the number of the big units like wang liang and dragons
    cause of how they look when close together

    Also, can someone please tell me where the text for changing unit speeds is, i need to slow
    it down so i can continue testing it happily

    Keep up the great work..

  22. #52
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Damn, you people are fast!

    @ Ticu:
    Vey well.
    Originally I wanted to keep this to a much later date.
    But we are making progress faster than expected, so...
    As Kitagata will be mightily busy with the new unit sounds in the near future,
    I have two possible tasks for you. Choose.
    1.) Implementing the building tree, without the units. I already sent you the intended techtree as an excel, I guess. Most of it should be self-explanatory. For now, I only need the "raw" techtree, including bonuses, pictures, costs, buildtimes. (Units will not! be implemented yet). Pictures you can use are plenty in the respective folders of the original game. If you need something else, let me know, or, if your skills are high enough, make fitting new ones.
    2.) Beta unit stats for the finished factions (Akagi, Zensen, Karazai, Krishnapur). You are free to edit everything for those in the EDU, but not outside, as this would conflict with my work. In fact, your editing the EDU already is, but if you do it correctly, I will be able to implement your changes without much trouble.
    Both tasks come with a number of additional restrictions and annotations; I will PM you the exact details after your decision, at some of it requires lengthly explanations of the overall concept for each of the factions. That is: if you are willing to do it.
    To tell you the truth, I am very reluctant to allocate this part of the work at all. But alas, it will speed us up, and people are waiting ^^/

    @Kitagata:
    Your gun sounds will be in the next weekly patch (presumably this Sunday). The impact and radius and status of the ranged attack units are just tentative, of course. For now I was just happy the guns actually a) shoot their projectiles from the muzzle (which was not the case before) b) use the correct sort of ammunition (did you realize the captive catapults now actually launch severed heads, haha? Perhaps I overdid it there?) c) have adequate skinnings and models for both undamaged and destroyed state (again, this is new). As much of the range and impact radius can not be adjusted by Ticu in the EDU, I will do it until Sunday. Agreed.
    The chinese standard sprite used is just a placeholder, of course. The actual sprites used later are generated automatically, and I'd like to do that in one big set, not piecemeal with each update. Using the placeholder for all units allowed me to cut the size of the base Version by about 100MB, as I was able to delete the other sprite-sets.
    To feed your sound-hunger, I will work on the Vanara, snow monkeys, leopard handlers, beast riders and shishi next. The dragon... perhaps, as it needs a big major overhaul (perhaps even a redo), similar to the Gor-Haw before. This may take some time, so I cannot promise I'll be finished with the dragon on Sunday. BTW, I thought about changing the "Copper Dragon" into an "Undead Dragon" with new skinnings, bits of raw flesh shining through, just a bit rotten and bloody... Somehow "Copper Dragon" sounds too clean for the Yomi, eh? After all, it will be the mount of their ancestral unit, which is to be "Enma Dai-ou, the King of Hell". Opinions?
    The Kanji (which actually will show you the unit's name - if you can read it) were not considered to be a placeholder, but it is easy to give the faction mon to at least the Akagi and Zensen faction. Let me think about this for a moment.
    Lastly the Tengu Camel archers. It is funny to note someone had exactly the same feeling about this. Yes, "historically" Tengu are more Swordsmasters or!: fan-wielding stormbringers. It is a simple fact that the yomi lack other missile units. This is intentional, of course; but I guess even they should get 2 different ones (the Skullthrowers are no real missile units). Kappa Archers and XXX, where XXX reads Tengu Camel Archers for now (slow missile cavalry - not really good, but at least something mounted and ranged). Given a bit of time, I hink I could at least change their weapon to a fan, and their projectiles to small whirlwinds... this would be "historically" (haha) accurate, but I am not sure about how good it will look in the end. Hmm. Difficult.

    Well, back to the drawing-board ^^/

    @Kitagata, addon:
    The impact radius of the heavy guns has been adjusted to that of the heavy onagers' fire projectile. Note, though, that those big guns are not intended as anti-personnel weapons; each will have a maximum of 8 shots per battle, which are very inaccurate against troops on top of that. This has a number of reasons.
    1. In vanilla RTW, it is very easy to out-bombard the ai. Take a few catapults, know what you are doing, and you can shoot the AI to pieces without being touched. While this feels very satisfying the first time you find out, it is nothing but an exploit; and becomes stupid after a while, as there is no challenge included. For this reason, Siege Gunnery will be SIEGE equipment in BLTW. Few shots, powerful. This includes Siege- and Captive Catapults, Thunderdragons, Gor-haw trumpets. Some factions (about half of them, indeed) will not get those heavy wall-crackers at all. Walls bear no meaning if it is so easy to tear them down as in original RTW.
    2. For use against troops, you have the Siege Crossbows. Personally, I was always very disappointed when one type of unit became "superseded" and "outdated" by another one (for example: Siege Crossbows by Catapults). Now they will be designed to complement each other. This will be one of the main general conceptual changes I have in mind, btw. In RTW, at a certain point in time, you would produce masses of Praetorian Guards and steamroll-crush the enemy (which tended to produce a mix of historically accurate - but alas, comparatively weak - rabble and elite units).

    Please tell me your opinion on this point: Don't you somehow feel sorry for all the other units you suddenly stop using, because something "better" is available? What I have in mind is to make high-level units not simply "better", but "different, complementary, expanding your possibilities, not simply powering you up". Get my point? Elite units have to be Elite. There never were medieval armies composed entirely of heavy cavalry and footknights, for example. For a simple reason: Both units were extraordinarily (extraordinarily!) expensive to maintain. And this will be the main change I will introduce into BLTW. Elite Units will cost immensely more and take immensely longer to produce than normal ones. And suddenly the poor peasant recruit will become appreciated again. Not because he is OMGXXXzorgggzROXXAZ!. No. Because he is diligent and cheap.
    While forcing a player to adjust to your preferences is never optimal, I guess this approach might be justified in this special case. Opinions?

    @Ticu, addon: ^^:
    If you choose to do the EDU beta-stats, this will *roughly* translate into:

    Production time../..Initial Cost../..Maintenance Cost:
    Peasantry:....1....0....X (high, since nobody works your fields!)
    Infantry (LV1+2):....1....X....1/3X
    Infantry (LV3+4):....2....2X....2/3X
    Infantry (LV5):....4....4X....4/3X
    Cavalry (LV2):....1....1,5X....1/2X (Note: There are no cavalry units available at LV 1)
    Cavalry (LV3+4):....2....3X....X
    Cavalry (LV5):....4....6X....2X

    Mercenaries: at least double or triple both costs. After all, mercenaries always were expensive, as they were hired only in times of imminent war => actual service on the
    battlefield was guaranteed, and fatalities high. Take the normal rules of availability and demand, and you can imagine they have to be expensive; if otherwise, no nation would have used standing armies at all. Concept: They may save your throat in times of dire need, but don't rely on them too much 'cause they'll rather sooner than later drain your purse. Comments?

    I guess that's enough of leaking out some of the "big picture". I guess we should save some of the surprise for the actual release.
    Last edited by Rinsui; 06-13-2008 at 12:59.
    Rinsui

  23. #53
    Arcane Alcholic Member Drunk-Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    You have some excellent ideas there, keep it up.

  24. #54
    Member Member TigerVX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    It appears the new Korean Gun unit is made up of horrible mutated demons D=

    Last edited by TigerVX; 06-14-2008 at 19:34.

  25. #55
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    ...and have been corrected. Sometimes strange things happen upon exporting form 3DS Max...
    See the updates section, just paste the new file.
    You are fast to notice, haha!...
    Rinsui

  26. #56
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Hey, does anyone know how to create new anim events for descr_sounds_unit_anims? I mean I can write a new one in, but where are the files that these correspond too? I'm trying to make sounds for thunderbombers, dragonfire, and singijeon. Are there evt files somewhere like for the ballista, onager, etc?

    (Link and comments self-deleted for being obsolete)
    Last edited by kitagata; 06-17-2008 at 13:40. Reason: File link posted and query are obsolete

  27. #57
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Hmm. Actually I don't know too much about sound editing either. You are well ahead of me in that matter ^^/. I guess there IS a solution somewhere o the net, but I don't know where. Most tutorials I used come from either where you posted your question on that matter or here
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22
    Perhaps you are lucky and can dig somethin up from there?
    Rinsui

  28. #58
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Semi-breakthrough on some previously non-functioning sounds for dragonfire troops.

    In a day or so I'll post a zip with sounds and accompanying necessary txts for shishi, snow monkeys, dragonfire troops, singijeon, siege catapults with working impact sounds, and the thunderbombers (if I can replicate the success with dragonfire).
    I'm basing it all off the beta with the three updates, so please don't post another update for few days. Plus this all requires heavy modification of many of the descr_sound_ files, and may take a little while for you to combine with what your currently working on.

    Thanks to Moros for leading me to Audacity. It's a great program.

    Rinsui the Krishnapur and Yomi officers (at least) have problems with their beard textures. They have a black border instead of being transparent. Same with the Tomoe Gozen, whose veil is no longer translucent. In terms of balancing I know it's premature, but the singijeon are incredibly powerful for such a high rate of fire. They slice right through everything. Should they really punch through multiple bodies?

    Also, in order to make a unique sound for the shishi that doesn't make the horses gain wierd sounds, I'm having to make them 'class camel'. I thought this was a good solution because from what you were saying it sounded like you might be junking the tengu camel riders, and the Chinese have so many archer units I was hoping you'd put bactrian camel archers on the backburner.
    If this interferes with your work let me know so I can figure something else out for them.

    Again, if anyone knows how the events work in descr_sounds_unit_anims, please let me know. I looked in descr_skeleton and the animations go into CAS files which contain evt files I think; and those files relate to the events like ANIM_ARCHER_FIRE in descr_sounds_unit_anims (I think). But I don't know how to access those evt.s, or if that's even what I should be doing!

  29. #59
    Current Blue Lotus TW Leader Member Rinsui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Ok. No worries about the Singijeon. In the final release, there will be just one of them, not three at once; but it is intended to be the most powerful anti-personnel weapon indeed (which is historrically accurate, btw). I just wanted to check the flying projectiles three at once, because I am slow to push the pause button at the right moment. Thanks for the info concerning the beard textures. This will be corrected in the next patch.
    Arrgh, arrgh. Go ahead with the shishi camels. In fact, I also did that, because I thought they might scare off horses like this. Camels will definitely be in the final release as mercenary units... after all the Gobi desert is right around the corner! But I don't mind if you make them sound a bit lionish, haha! Just don't make the sount too discernible. Something grunty will do.
    I guess I misunderstand you on the .evt files, but isn't it easy to open the .evt files with notepad?
    Personally, I doubt a .cas file contains an .evt file in some way, but I may be mistaken on that. I am sorry I cannot be too much of a help on that matter!
    Thanks for your great work,
    Rinsui

  30. #60
    Member Member kitagata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Feedback wanted!

    Put up a big file with sounds for shishi, snow monkeys, singijeon, dragonfire, thunderbombers, and other things, plus their accompanying txt files.
    Many files had to be changed, so please check out the readme, Rinsui.

    http://files.filefront.com/SnowMShis.../fileinfo.html

    I like your new description of the Snow Monkeys.

    Where will the former ghost mercenaries be in the new rendition? Are you considering putting them with the Yomi at all? They could use the archer unit, and it would seem 'better' than the tengu on camels.

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