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Thread: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

  1. #571
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    If we go for the somewhat higher values (which are not unrealistic at all), and take into consideration the skeleton deformations, NO modern "longbow" gets near the strength of those in the past.
    Any proof/tests or it's actually what you think? Are you aware that a bow don't have to be tested by a men? It can be mechanically drawn which gives you perfectly measurable and repeatable results. It's even easier for a crossbow because it has only two states: ready/loaded and free (sorry for the lack of technical terms). I'd be sceptical if it'd be one or two tests but I've read about several tests methodology (for example made by US and British army) and the most of them confirms what you can find in wikipedia. Denying all those tests without any reasonable proof is not so wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Not wanting to go too deep into historical research, but the outcome of quite some battles in the 100years war telling their story of efficiency.
    I think it's exactly the same situation like you saying that crossbow is useless. Tactic and terrain advantage is the key. English have been using the longbow properly/efficiently on a massive scale and that's how the myth of a super bow was born. Like wiki says:

    Modern tests and contemporary accounts agree therefore that well-made plate armour could protect against longbows. However this did not necessarily make the longbow ineffective; thousands of longbowmen were deployed in the English victory at Agincourt against plate armoured French knights in 1415. Clifford Rogers has argued that while longbows might not have been able to penetrate steel breastplates at Agincourt they could still penetrate the thinner armour on the limbs. Most of the French knights advanced on foot but, exhausted by walking across wet muddy terrain in heavy armour enduring a "terrifying hail of arrow shot", they were overwhelmed in the melee.

    Less heavily armoured soldiers were more vulnerable than knights. For example, enemy crossbowmen were forced to retreat at Crecy when deployed without their protecting pavises. Horses were generally less well protected than the knights themselves; shooting the French knights' horses from the side (where they were less well armoured) is described by contemporary accounts of the Battle of Poitiers, and at Agincourt John Keegan has argued that the main effect of the longbow would have been in injuring the horses of the mounted French knights.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  2. #572
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Stazi,

    http://www.currentmiddleages.org/art...ry-Testing.pdf

    This test was made with a bow with only 75lbs and arrows with a weight at the lower end of the ones found on the "Mary Rose" (Die leichtesten Bögen wiesen ein Zuggewicht von 100 Pfund auf. Ein Langbogen besaß ein Zuggewicht von 185 Pfund). Double the lbs and go for about 1200grains, the outcome would be even more devastating (heavy arrows, shot in an arch, do not loose that much energy as, let´s say, a bullet on it´s way, or the quarrel with it´s ?flater trajectory? off a crossbow). That he takes in account the "body deformation" is a plus, in my eyes, which by other tests quite some time is not used as a damage factor. That the ability to penetrate heavy plate depends on many factors is out of question (hardening of the bodkins, for example, or how good an armourer you had at hand to get a really "beaten-dense" steel for the armour aso), but that it was possible under certain circumstances, due to the short research I made (just for you! haven´t dug out my books yet, stored in some 20odd banana boxes underneath my bed ;-)) seems obvious to me. The fact that most knights gone down because their horses were hit is shown in quite some temporary reports as well, so no credit for the longbow´s armour penetration ability, but it´s effectivity in the usual warfare of the time (if you can´t get at the tin can get his mount). And pinning a knight´s leg (where the plate is some thinner than the breastplate) to the saddle does take some spirit out of him, don´t you think?

    English have been using the longbow properly/efficiently on a massive scale and that's how the myth of a super bow was born
    That is always the point, and I agree with you that every weapon, wielded well in the right moment and the proper terrain, can terribly destroy te enemy. If therefore one should call the Longbow a "superbow" is another story (history always being written by the victors, and the English won quite some battles due to the longbow, though they lost the war in the end iirc). That it was a great weapon is, on the other hand, out of question.

    greetings, daigaku
    Last edited by daigaku; 12-18-2013 at 13:17. Reason: found numbers in german wikipedia

  3. #573
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Regardless guys…

    The longbow outperformed the crossbow in range and in fire rate – and bodkin arrows were used for increased effect/lethality, in times of war. Crossbows also had advantages, but all that is another story. Redux reflects some of the traits of the English/Welsh longbow, more so then ever done before in MTW. The relevant question here, is it possible to reflect the distinctive traits of the English longbow better in Redux? Can Redux (figuratively) capture the “essence” of the longbow - beyond what already is done (within existing and possible mechanics)? That is the question here.

    We all seem to agree that lowering armour-piercing levels to 33% efficiency is – at least a move in the right direction. So, it seems like a good idea for several reasons (and it doesn’t conflict with the wiki-info on the longbow either). I will probably do the change in future releases. I’ll also slightly lower lethality/damage on it, probably. Hopefully, the longbows will fit better into the overall game as a result – they will however still be exceptional despite all that, as that general circumstance will not change much.


    ***

    Anyway, as some people asked for it... The RX-bow stats...

    Bows of RXB1004: (current)
    =================================
    Peasant bow ---------- Range 100m, Accur 52%, Lethal 1.15, AP 0, Reload 6
    Standard* ------------- Range 150m, Accur 80%, Lethal 1.75, AP 0, Reload 4
    Warbow** ------------ Range 170m, Accur 93%, Lethal 2, AP 0, Reload 5
    Longbow*** ---------- Range 280m, Accur 76%, Lethal 2, AP 50%, Reload 5

    * Moorish-, Byzantine-, Feudal Archers, Slavic Bowmen and Foresters etc. etc.
    ** Norse Pathfinders, Royal Archers, Russian Boyars etc.
    *** English Foresters, Longbowmen and Feudal version.



    Bows of RXB100x: (considered)
    =================================
    Peasant bow ---------- Range 100m, Accur 52%, Lethal 1.15, AP 0, Reload 6
    Standard* ------------- Range 150m, Accur 80%, Lethal 1.75, AP 0, Reload 4
    Warbow** ------------ Range 170m, Accur 93%, Lethal 2, AP 0, Reload 5
    Longbow*** ---------- Range 280m, Accur 76%, Lethal 1.85, AP 33%, Reload 5


    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-16-2014 at 19:42. Reason: Corrections...

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  4. #574
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    ...now I know why the volleys of those NorsePathfinders took such a toll - Accur93, Lethal2, that´s a word. From the description, I presume that the SlavicBowmen use the same bow or am I mistaken there?

    The changes for the Longbow I´d call sensible, you might even cut down the range to 250 I think without spoiling their superiority.

    Thanks for sorting out (you remember, Win98SEblabla, Wordpadblabla),

    still-playing-English greetings,

    daigaku

  5. #575
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    horrible. Simply horrible. Starting off as Russian with the all-new-to-me 1004e-VI, the first thing I see, hanging like a 2feet carrot before the donkey´s nose, is KHAZAR - with a beautifully shaped Citadel, and with IRON! But - taking it, this carrot tastes awful! NO WAY to get some weapon/attack boost to all those great Russian units...None of those being able to be recruited there. That wasn´t nice of you to do that, you know?!? Showing a great opportunity to keep the Byz out of the steppes, and then this. Nasty, nasty guy you are ;-))

    As I had to find out, you rose the price as well as the upkeep for ships quite a bit. For the Russians, soil-bound as they are at the beginning, no problem - but it will hurt the Norse and the English, depending quite a bit on trade for a decent income.

    btw, about ships: As far as my experience goes, till now it were mainly the Saracenes being involved in fleet spamming (that was still 1003). They did it regularly, no change of their behaviour after several restarts, and, as long I played as English, no other faction did the same as excessively.

    Will report more after being a bit further into the Russian campaign,

    greetings daigaku


    btw.....found out how to get the GnomeEditor running in Win98SE. That´s solved. Nice tool.

  6. #576
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    A (late) happy new year folks... Some notes/remarks to self, as tradition would have it...


    Redux & 2013
    -----------------------------

    Releases: RXB1004, RXB1004-VIa, RXB1004-VIe and a map-hotfix...
    Downloads RXB1004: 300 (roughly)
    Downloads RXB1003: 1000 (roughly, prior to RXB1004)
    Views: +19000-20000
    Posts: +50 (this thread)

    In reference to posts... 22 posts were mine which is less than 50% of the posts made in total, and I consider that to be a good thing. Much is owed to Daigaku for that circumstance... He has been a force of nature in the Redux-area and kept things going, making it lively here when the rest of us failed to do so. My thanks and appreciation to Dai for that relentless drive and activity here, it makes this a better place (and certainly much more fun to visit as a result). A few new threads were also created during 2013, two (initiated) AAR-threads (by Stazi and Cyprian2) and another third thread about buildings (by Dai). In 2013, many people obviously visited this place and thread (which is great), but they (still) did not post as much, which is dull - and typically bad for Redux - as it needs posts to generate further notice, interest and exposure to survive, like any public project...

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-14-2014 at 22:56. Reason: English!

  7. #577
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    ...None of those being able to be recruited there. That wasn´t nice of you to do that, you know?!? Showing a great opportunity to keep the Byz out of the steppes, and then this. Nasty, nasty guy you are ;-))
    I try, I try...

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Will report more after being a bit further into the Russian campaign,
    Please do...

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    ...found out how to get the GnomeEditor running in Win98SE. That´s solved. Nice tool.
    Yup, sure is... And it can provide players (like yourself) with plenty of info on Redux-units, -buildings etc.

    - A

  8. #578
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi, friends of the once-and-forever game,
    @Axalon

    First, thanks for your kind words. A force of nature I wouldn´d call myself, but a stubborn and still unexhausted MTW-and-nearly-nothing-else player? That would fit ;-))

    About:Statistics

    My, my - 19000+ views, 1300 downloads - and sooo few posts only; sure a hard bread to chew on. WHAT are you all doing out there? Playing so much, there isn´t even time for posting? Come on, please!!

    About: 1004-VIe/Russian/Casual(because first try of 1004 AND Russians in Redux):

    Really great and balanced roster; I allowed myself to activate the Khanate Horse Archers for all factions in Khazar, not only rebels - otherwise, Khazar would be too much of a waste with all it´s giving. More about campaign in "battle and tactics".

    One thing about the new map wasn´t really to my taste, but I left it as it was: Breaking the English Channel into two pieces. Too good an opportunity to block entirely with two regions building ships alternately. As you know, out of necessity I´m a moneymaker in the game, and this means 1st to loose some granted income and 2nd one has to build more ships to "go the long way ´round", especially in the beginning.
    The ship stuff - don´t know if I go d´accord there; it works so far that i didn´t have to blow thousand of enemy ships to the ocean´s ground, but mere hundreds. The upkeep is, nevertheless, chewing holes into the purse (as always going for naval superiority).

    @All:

    Please, guys and gals out there playing Redux, respond a bit to this tremendous piece of work with a few words. Of praise, of critics, of questions, of ideas for changes, it doesn´t matter. Since I came back after an absence of about 10 months (trying to get into another game and gave it up) there were around only a handful of posters, but 300 downloads of 1004. Nothing to tell? Nothing to share? It´s hard to believe, so please, write a few words and keep this place a bit busy.

    greetings to everybody,
    daigaku

  9. #579
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    About: Statistics
    Yup, I always found all that strange ever since Redux started having that kind of statistics – which it have had for quite some time. I have certainly tried to make people post here but with little success…

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Really great and balanced roster; I allowed myself to activate the Khanate Horse Archers for all factions in Khazar, not only rebels - otherwise, Khazar would be too much of a waste with all it´s giving. More about campaign in "battle and tactics".
    I generally think one should at least try out the default designs on units first before one starts change/altering anything like that – of course, it’s your call obviously. Maybe it’s just me and what I would do...

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    One thing about the new map wasn´t really to my taste, but I left it as it was: Breaking the English Channel into two pieces. Too good an opportunity to block entirely with two regions building ships alternately. As you know, out of necessity I´m a moneymaker in the game, and this means 1st to loose some granted income and 2nd one has to build more ships to "go the long way ´round", especially in the beginning.
    Well, I guess it is unavoidable that we eventually find something to seemingly disagree upon. I split the English Channel as I think it serves the overall game in a good way. If the new circumstances don’t work out for you, then you will have to adapt or perish – and I’m pretty sure even you can manage to adapt just fine (even if reluctantly). This despite your specific playing-style. The principle here is that it is supposed to be some sort of a game, meaning the outcome and survival of your faction - including England - should be uncertain and fought for somehow, not the other way around. There should be some challenges somehow. This change serves that end, or so I believe…

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    The ship stuff - don´t know if I go d´accord there; it works so far that i didn´t have to blow thousand of enemy ships to the ocean´s ground, but mere hundreds. The upkeep is, nevertheless, chewing holes into the purse (as always going for naval superiority).
    Previously, players were able to routinely achieve naval significance or even superiority, too easily - evidently. This due to my (previous) unsuccessful designs on ships. I have now tried to remedy that and as a result players will have to work and pay for it more to get there. That’s a good thing, Dai – not the other way around… If you want easy - raw MTW stands ready to serve, and it won’t get much easier then that in MTW. Redux is a poor choice for “cakewalk”-play.

    Redux is supposed to be tough on "standard” and “veteran”-difficulty at least, playing the regular factions - as is representative for how Redux was actually intended and designed to be played. Redux was never intended to cater greenhorn-, casual- and average players or some half-assed posers. There are already plenty of stuff done for MTW that caters to that crowd. If such people still want to play Redux - excellent, fine and OK by me - but it was/is originally designed for veteran and skilled players in mind, and that shows all over in the game. In short, Redux is was clearly supposed to be tough - without being punishing - and deliver an interesting, uncertain and dramatic experience etc. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Please, guys and gals out there playing Redux, respond a bit to this tremendous piece of work with a few words. Of praise, of critics, of questions, of ideas for changes, it doesn´t matter.
    Agreed...

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-21-2014 at 14:50. Reason: clean up...

  10. #580
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    I have certainly tried to make people post here but with little success…
    Really a pity, that. I imagine there is so much to say/write about the experience with Redux that it strikes me as really weird there is so little traffic here. The other side: I think, most people playing it are quite some individualists (just like you yourself, for example ;-)) and so care more about their own experience than about sharing it. Understandable, but a pity anyway.

    one should at least try out the default designs
    Well, I did for the first 100 years, but sorry, I really disliked the idea of having this great province and not being able to do too much with it. I even hardly use those guys (they´re not too good a bang for the buck), but wanted to be able to recruit something special in this part of the world.

    to adapt just fine (even if reluctantly)
    Of course, Axalon. And momentarily, playing the Rus, it´s not really a pain in the ass. But I wonder how it will be playing English or Norse.

    achieve naval significance or even superiority, too easily
    Sure I will stick to this strategy, no matter what the cost. For my gameplay it is vital to have blocked direct enemy access to my provinces - can´t have 15000 Saracenes or Byz or French standing on my doorstep in Norway, me having a garrison of 700 men ;-)) Things like that I let happen when the game was published - and learned fast....

    Redux is supposed to be tough on "standard” and “veteran”-difficulty at least
    Be assured, it is. Parallel to my current Russian campaign I started another Norse/veteran in 1003, having a hell of a time - and fun clearing the English out of their islands (good luck there are forests in GB as well ;-)) And Lithuanian Cavalry does wonders against Longbow units...

    but it was/is originally designed for veteran and skilled players
    ;-) ...no problem about that, I´d say - and, again, a big THANKS (yes, this is meant shouting) for that, dear Axalon.

    greetings from rainy Blackforest, daigaku

  11. #581
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hello again all, I found some stuff that I thought was interesting enough to share here, hopefully people visiting here will agree...

    Below are some old pics, the results of a test/experiment I did in Jan 2013 as to evaluate Redux and its overall challenge-levels. The experiment (or test) was essentially: “can one achieve victory in raw MTW within 100 turns? Even if the difficulty is maxed out? If not, how close can one get then? Can one do it with Redux? How will raw MTW compare to Redux in this regard? What are the actual differences between the two in this context? What conclusions can be drawn from the results?” etc. etc. I also tried XL for additional and broader reference (while I never came around to do a Redux-campaign at that point in time. I did it later on however). These were the combined results….




    Raw MTW, playing as Spain (a hard faction), Early-era, expert level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 80 turns in (1167 AD), I was offered victory. I was amazed at the result as I did not expect it to be that easy, as things had actually turned out. Thinking back, I remember I was essentially swimming in florins all the time, no matter what I did. I was constantly at war ever since turn 5 or 6. I never ever used any mercenaries or crap troops like peasants for garrisoning, I never built any save, 2-3 units of spearmen at start up - I had little choice, no other troops were available at that point. Once I could build feudal men at arms, I used little else for infantry and my armies.



    Same Spanish campaign in raw MTW... 94 turns in (1181 AD), I was offered total victory. I was surprised at the speed it all have happened, some 40(!) provinces conquered in just 14 turns... All this while the famous "rebel-bug" was in full swing (causing some minor problems, but it was never much beyond that, due to the overly effective watchtowers and some additional spies)...



    MTW-XL 3.0, playing as Armenians (a hard faction), Early-era, expert level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 96 turns in (1176 AD), I was offered (minor) victory. I did not bother pursuing a total victory after that as I already had the info I was looking for. Its possible that I could have shaven off some few turns, if I had been more experienced with both XL and the Armenians... All I remember is that I killed the Turks first and then killed the Egyptians while at war with Byzantium too. The Turks and Egyptians were a joke in regards to troops once I could get my hands on some functional cavalry, then it was all over... After Constantinople every faction was fair game, as I was done playing nice and went berserk across XL-Europe.

    Raw MTW was slightly easier then XL. I had little problems with cash, troops, order, rebels and buildings in neither - I could build whatever I wanted without any fuss or protest anywhere, this at any given time - although it certainly took time to build stuff. Building-time, more then anything was the greatest obstacle in these two campaigns. Ships take like forever to build, and so I basically ignored a building a big fleet and do trade - I had no time for it (in this context), nor did I seriously need it. AI-factions was typically no threat on, or from, the seas anyways. I also remember that I was in constant war, all the time, with two or more factions as a rule. At first I started them, later it was the AI all the way... I never made peace or dishonoured an alliance, in either two campaigns.




    MTW-Redux using a 1004-prototype (about 3 months later, Apr 2013)... Playing as Spain, veteran level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 100 turns in (800 AD), I have managed to scrape together some 13 provinces, and securing the Iberian peninsula and a buffer zone in France and Morocco but little else (save Flanders!). This screen shows the northern borders into France... My armies are hardly spectacular nor superior to my foes (here or elsewhere). In fact the French armies are actually better then mine at this point and so my troops get slaughtered every time I actually try to attack French held territories... My troops are simply outclassed in terms of equipment to the Frankish knights. I managed to build my very first unit of royal spearmen which is probably the only thing that will break these well equipped Frankish knights in battle, since little else will (at least from Spain, save archers, of which I don't have enough to pull it off). In short, Spain's armies are still in internal disorder and in need of upgrades due to the massive pressure during the first 100 turns, especially from the Moors. Spain has little or no reserves, and its armies are still very much under construction to cover past losses. Plenty of cheap units still around as I basically could not afford quality units at the rate I had lost them, and I had to get new troops to survive...



    Same Spanish campaign in Redux... The southern borders in Africa... Spain under my reign was hardly mighty, and it is first now slowly recovering from some 80+ turns of multiple wars (on several fronts), constant shortages, battles and rebellions. Spain was never strong enough to wipe out the Moors when it had the chance - not enough troops to do it. The economy has for the most part on the verge of collapse as it has been is overstretched by various demands, needs and plans. I had to fine-tune taxes many times just to maintain some internal order and avoid rebellions. I simply had no troops to deal with that too... I have been fighting for survival multiple times against the Moors, who damn near wiped me off the map - had it not been for a series of spectacular/fancy wins that ultimately saved Spain from annihilation. I mean, I could have lost the entire game some 5-6 times at least, had I lost any of those crucial battles. The initial Moorish onslaught was relentless and without mercy, I was fighting for survival. After some 100 turns of toil and serious struggle in Redux, what did I have to show for it all?

    ...Some 9,974 florins and 13 provinces - hard earned.

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-22-2014 at 00:37.

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  12. #582
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    ..."blitzing", were you?!? what you describe here is exactly why I love redux. Your playing style sure being totally different to mine, but what I see here is shouting for !;-) micromanagement;-)! of all sorts.
    What is lowest stability? Income per year? Loyalty of generals? Of troops? Influence? Allies?
    For a slow player like me, no way to do something like that. As a counterpart, I might post the slowest development in my current 1003VI/Norse/veteran campaign...

    headshaking greetings, daigaku

  13. #583
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hello Zarakas and thanks for posting…

    I have been thinking back and forth… And, it’s my conclusion that I can never create a game that is “immune” to Staz and Dai’s playing-style - not within the parameters in which it has been “discovered” or made visible. The designs can always be improved upon somehow, and that in turn that will influence and improve the overall game - but - I see no serious alternative or solution to the outlined dilemma (above) beyond switching to veteran level. It’s optional of course, but it is the only rational alternative if one truly desires to seriously combat the problem as outlined. If things are too easy, you make it a bit harder or simply accept that the challenge is not at full capacity, as that option was then actively discarded by you.

    So the problem is effectively gone and the premise is void (its my fault for no seeing that in the first place). Dai and Staz have a choice to make and it’s not our problem but theirs. “Will I play on veteran-level or not?” essentially... I’ll comment on your suggestions anyhow as I hate to throw away your suggestions unexamined for nothing... Also, thanks a ton for your general praise of Redux, I appreciate it - especially when providing a clue on what you actually liked! Anyways….


    Quote Originally Posted by Zarakas View Post
    MTW original offered different periods and units, in addition, it also had the Mongols. This added the need to prepare, and change of strategy for the player.
    Yup it did, but it never had the dynamics and action of Redux. Whatever that stuff brought to the table is already there in Redux as it is. As of 1004, the Saracens and Moors as faction’s works in similar ways the Mongols did in the raw game. If unchecked they will probably become very powerful and dangerous for all, due to sheer numbers and resources alone. Instead of having a threat entering the map from the east at a fixed and known date, we have in Redux (usually) a threat brewing start-up in the south and it is likely to grow steadily and organically to become very dangerous to all factions if nothing is done about it. Same thing goes for the rebels, a factor that essentially does not exist in raw MTW, not as a serious one anyway. Rebels in Redux can become very strong if left alone in “castle-provinces” for too long. As I see it, there is hardly any shortage of the need to “prepare” and “adapt” in Redux. As for the “Eras”, they served little actual purpose in the game, other then holding back the player from tech and units (and it created bugs). I see no real market for that here. The plan for Redux is to have an organic dynamics which is not fixed to dates or certain triggers but to ever changing, shifting circumstances which is unpredictable and uncertain. That’s the plan - that is what the designs are set to achieve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarakas View Post
    1. Maybe a stronger power to the East or North East, say a greater Russia or Steppes faction to challange the Byzantines.
    I think it is the other way around. Regardless, Byzantium is not a regular faction, meaning they are not priority or a reason to make other factions stronger as to rival them more successfully. Byzantium is this strong as to rival other factions successfully, in the first place… It is not actually designed with a player in mind, in contrast to say Italy, Spain or England for instance which are regular factions because of they were explicitly designed with the player in mind. Byzantium is an optional faction for people who want to play them anyway, well aware that it will not really be the same thing in terms of appearance, challenge and complexity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarakas View Post
    2. Maybe an addition to unit types
    I just don’t see how Redux need much more of that. And, what would that be? It already have some 200+ units providing a level of choice and freedom which is unheard of in the raw MTW. I also try to have actual purpose and distinction for units, which again was a blatant problem in raw MTW. At this point its not easy as most stuff and aspects is already covered somehow in the unit-grid. If you got any fantastic ideas, lets hear them, but very doubtful it will go much further then that. Last time I made a unit suggested to me was like 2008 or 2009… Still, try me…

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 01-30-2014 at 06:24.

  14. #584
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi,
    @Axalon:

    While a bit more generous with occasions for expressing your praise Dai, I still very much appreciate it, all the same… As ever… :)
    Which greater praise is possible than playing your mod day and night (ask my wife...;-)) ?!? digging into it´s depths with my means and drilling holes into it´s very bottom to find out about mechanics and possibilities?!?
    Sorry if I don´t write too much about all this, I´m mostly interested in the ways to understand, for the game to follow my style of playing, and then give some summary.

    And, it’s my conclusion that I can never create a game that is “immune” to Staz and Dai’s playing-style
    SIR!

    We do not strive for immunity, no we don´t, and we will not have it! For stubborn men immunity doesn´t exist, never will, and every attempt to reach there is in vain.

    greetings, daigaku

    p.s. A question about my more talkative moments: Is there a chance you´d admit an "off topic" - thread?!?

  15. #585
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    ...as it seems to me, you´ve changed unit availability in 1004e-VI. Do I see this right?

    If yes, is there any chance for a sort of tabella(?) about this? I see myself already again building structures to find out what´s possibly available (example: playing the English, ItalianNobles available in Sardinia).

    greetings, daigaku

  16. #586
    Member Member Zarakas's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hello Axalon, and thanks for detailed response.

    I will concentrate on playing with regular factions. I do have difficulty with the rebels at times, in particular when my faction has internal rebellion. I hate rebuilding.

    Italy's position is close enough to Byzatium!

    Cheers
    Zarakas

  17. #587
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi,
    @Axalon: I myself never understood this differentiation between major and minor factions. Already in Vanilla I was annoyed not being able to play Novgorod in early, for example. My personal opinion is: If it´s on the map, it should be playable (except the Pope maybe, for his special role in the game). In Redux, for example, I´d like to have a go with the Portugese, starting with a single province and quite some challenge on the doorstep. Or the Hungarians, stuck in the middle of hell between Germans, Italians, Polish and Byzantium. Being a rather poor modder, I´m at loss there. I enjoy the game anyway, as you might know ;-))
    @Zarakas: Running danger to annoy, I say again: My all-time-favourite faction are the Danish/Norse, optional factions in both Vanilla and Redux (never thought really about it, just played them). And for me, my personal style of playing, my preferrence being turtling around till I strike fast and hard, they are simply the perfect faction. In Redux, the Russians as well, and the English with their ranged warfare, are a treat for themselves.
    To make the Byz some more challenging in Redux, maybe a way would be to let alone the Saracenes for a while till they tech up. If that´s the case, they might become the challenge you seek for the Byz, especially in desert warfare, where those heavily tanked up ByzCav exhaust themselves already just standing around in the heat ;-))

    Wish you much fun playing,

    greetings daigaku

  18. #588
    Member Member Cyprian2's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Hi,
    I myself never understood this differentiation between major and minor factions. Already in Vanilla I was annoyed not being able to play Novgorod in early, for example. My personal opinion is: If it´s on the map, it should be playable (except the Pope maybe, for his special role in the game). In Redux, for example, I´d like to have a go with the Portugese, starting with a single province and quite some challenge on the doorstep. Or the Hungarians, stuck in the middle of hell between Germans, Italians, Polish and Byzantium. Being a rather poor modder, I´m at loss there. I enjoy the game anyway, as you might know ;-))
    Hello again (and again, and again )@daigaku:

    I'm sure Axalon will be along to answer this shortly, but I'll see if I can beat him to it.

    It's extremely easy to make unplayable factions playable (save the pope), provided you're using the VI engine -- even for an inexperienced modder such as myself.

    You simply go to the startpos file, scroll down to where the factions are listed in "minor" and "major" columns, and simply copy/paste the "minor" (i.e. unplayable) faction to the "major" column, et voila!

    I've done this with the Hungarians, Aragonese, and Burgundians in my game.

  19. #589
    Member Member Zarakas's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Hi,

    @Zarakas: Running danger to annoy, I say again: My all-time-favourite faction are the Danish/Norse, optional factions in both Vanilla and Redux (never thought really about it, just played them). And for me, my personal style of playing, my preferrence being turtling around till I strike fast and hard, they are simply the perfect faction. In Redux, the Russians as well, and the English with their ranged warfare, are a treat for themselves.
    To make the Byz some more challenging in Redux, maybe a way would be to let alone the Saracenes for a while till they tech up. If that´s the case, they might become the challenge you seek for the Byz, especially in desert warfare, where those heavily tanked up ByzCav exhaust themselves already just standing around in the heat ;-))

    Wish you much fun playing,

    greetings daigaku
    Thank you Daigaku

    I am currently playing the Italians (a standard faction). Its year 957AD, I have had two rebeliions, the first one I lost half my armies to rebel generals. I defeated all of them and kept the provinces. I find the king always has very low loyalty to start with. I dont know why, and it does not seem to increase with time.

    I also enjoy playing the Norse, great infantry, however they also rebel consistantly. I will try the Byz again, and take up your suggestions.

    Greetings Zarakas

  20. #590
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi @Zarakas,

    ...can´t imagine why you get all those rebellions. Hardly ever happens to me, except when I want a province to be rebellious, to get my King´s influence higher by taking it back from them ;-)) It´s an exploit, I know, but there´s no fun with 6star generals with a mere 3 loyalty...
    My style of playing includes building up, parallel to economy, all those happiness/stability/morale buildings as well. Keeps rebellions low, less need for garrison aso. Give it a try, maybe?

    Haven´t played the Italians yet, but seen geographically they must be quite a challenge. Pope, HRE, Byz, Lombards, even Hungarians near to keep at bay - might be really hard to get them going with my playstyle (too slow to cope with all the dangers around).

    I wish you great battles, and good luck to your Kings,

    greetings daigaku

  21. #591
    Member Member Zarakas's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Thanks Daigaku

    I will take advice and use the King more in battle. I do this early, but then use King less as game progresses.

    I play a similiar style, build economy, build provinces and expand slowly. I avoid conflict with other factions (if possible) until I am in a position to defend if offence strategy not successful.

    At the moment the Italians are bordered by a powerfull army of French (10 stacks) and a less powerfull army of Polish (12 stacks) to the North and West. I have unleashed 8 Inquisitors to destroy French Generals. Wiill do this for a few turns and then attack the French hard in two provinces on my borders. Hopefully, if i destroy their main army they will rebel. I am not in a position to wipe out as they hold many provinces, and this would weaken my defences. The French are not currently in favour with the pope and have been excommunicated, good time to attack.
    I have enough forces to deal with Polish if they decide to attack at same time. Strategy - Defence with Polish and Offence with French.

    Zarakas

  22. #592
    Member Member Axalon's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    A General note...

    I have been doing some general maintenance all over the Redux-area, in case anybody wonders
    why things might look slightly different. The changes, new stickies, overall clean up etc. etc. are
    all on me (and it is supposed to be that way, no worries). Its all biz as usual folks, carry on...


    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    ...as it seems to me, you´ve changed unit availability in 1004e-VI. Do I see this right?
    In regards to what? Use a Gnome-Editor and find out, whatever it is you are looking for...

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 02-11-2014 at 05:13.

  23. #593
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi @Axalon,

    In regards to what? Use a Gnome-Editor and find out, whatever it is you are looking for...
    Was about things like "Coptic Nobles" which weren´t, iirc, available in 1003. Gnome editor does give a lot of info, but (maybe it´s the version I use) not about regional availability, only some cultural. Some other units (sorry, haven´t written down the moment I thought "something´s different here") have changed availability (were in 1003, aren´t in 1004e)as well. I´ll look it up again and list what I found out.

    greetings, daigaku

  24. #594
    Member Member mccaffery's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    hi i wonder if you can tell me what i doing wrong i have tryed to install the mod both the 1st 1 plus the vi patch but when i try to run the game it says faction not found papcy just wondering what i doing wrong ?
    cheers in advance guys.brian

  25. #595
    Member Member tmodelsk's Avatar
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    Default Re: MTW-Redux Beta Released!

    Hi Mc Caferry ,
    I would advice : install clean MTW and try if it works, then install Redux & try if works, then install Redux patch & try if works.
    Such simple procedure can help to understood roots of problem.
    regards, Tomasz.

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