MTW-Redux Beta Released!

[bozewolf]

Regarding the longbows not being fair in real life:

that is absolutely, 100%, undisputably true, hehe. I'm only just getting used to a game not nerfing a certain characteristic for the sake of perfect balance.

[noone23]

The tips as implemented work well and, what is more important, don't cause any bugs.

Really, though, Ax, there's no need to take umbrage because I decided I wanted to make some changes to Redux. The fact is that I wouldn't have started playing your mod any other way. I changed a single copy that I took the time and trouble to download and install and left it at that; I did not encourage anyone else to do the same since everyone else who has posted here has shown a clear preference for playing Redux(sounds like reflux)straight up.

I don't know why, but I feel as though I continue to have to remind fellow players that these are, after all, GAMES, and not exercises in religious or moral discipline. MTW(in all its numerous forms, including Redux)is what it is and that's pretty much it. As such, the idea here is to have FUN, and that takes different forms for different players.

It seems to bother you quite a bit that someone would actually think to make changes to your mod. Surely you must have at some time imagined that someone would do exactly that. In this case it happened to be me but I doubt I'm alone; I think the likelihood is that others have done something similar but haven't come here and posted about it.

Really, you should be glad I was interested enough to DL and install the thing, especially considering I had to go around the block a few times before I finally got it to work. Not only that, but I didn't have to bother you for help with the install.

As far as people verbally attacking me here, I don't care. It's all just talk when you come right down to it.

Meanwhile, you should just be glad that I am enjoying your mod, even if it wasn't quite the same thing that you originally created. There are worse things in the world than your ideas and creative vision differing from someone else's.

I have my own visions for any number of games and mods and the more I can do to realize those ambitions in any given game or mod the more likely it is to get playing time instead of merely sitting in storage stacked with other unplayed titles.

You should remember that there are games that come with editors and the like and that these tools make it possible for the user to make the kinds of changes that I chose to make and more. You personally have mentioned Gnome Editor(I would be lost without it for use with MTW and its various versions). Clearly I am not the only person to make use of this tool; it certainly wasn't created for my exclusive use alone.

That's enough out of me for one post - this one - . I hope that I have made my point well enough.

[noone23]

When the abbey I build in any given area gets completed and the popup message informing me of this appears there is no corresponding pic with it. I was wondering if you forgot to add the pic or was it some technical problem that caused this situation. Of course, it has no effect on the play of the game as said abbey(maybe Dear Abbey at this rate)still gets built regardless.

[Axalon]

Hi Guys,

Will: Well, you do what you want of course but you could have saved your English campaign by doing the various manoeuvres’ I suggested to you in post: 176. To me the English faction is a very viable faction to play just as long as you go light on the longbows. You will probably find things a lot harder with the Russians. Income and florins might be a likely problematic factor you. It is also possible that will find the various Catholic specialized formations quite formidable, we’ll see I’ll guess. Playing as Russians will probably be harder for you since you now moved to expert level as well.

As for the rebel armies, yes your observations are quite correct. Rebel armies do have a tendency to get bigger. This is all dependent on whether or not there is a castle in the province or not. As for the most eastern part of the map there few of those around so they wont get bigger until a castle is built, perhaps then they will start growing there as well.

As for the great marching in and taking control thingy, yes you could do that, but maintaining that control will probably be more problematic for you, that’s my guess anyway. I have designed it that way and it’s not an overlook. I got more stuff as well for you in the spoiler...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

“I think, since the AI is not agressive, that you could make the rebel terratories stronger in force, or in rebellion like Friesland...”

Well, I think that this is open for debate. I am not that willing to so fast categorize the AI as non-Aggressive. The redux-AI can definitely be aggressive at times but it also has a tendency to prepare its various factions to war in a whole other way than the regular AI. That takes time and you seem not to be quite accustomed to that yet. It is unlikely that it will throw itself into war without substantial reserves of troops first. Thus it is harder to defeat when war do come. You should know that by now.


”But you're doing a much better job in your mod then the original, which I think is too easy. It's not easy to expand without solid economy and good units.”

Why thank you Will. Yes the original is too easy and yes it should not be easy to expand without some solid troops and a developed and functional economy. I wouldn’t have it any other way... There is too much “blitzing” around and I don’t care much for that. I like the reduxed and harder circumstances a lot more personally. It’s more of a game and less sport to it.


”Tyberias XL mod is beautiful, but is too easy.”

Even if that might be true, I would appreciate if you (and everybody else) could please refrain from doing such remarks here in the future. I have too much respect for the work and effort made by VikingHorde and Tyberius to willingly allow such comments to thrive here at the redux corner. I might not always share other designer’s views on various design-issues but does not mean I don’t respect them or that I am not willing to defend their work if necessary. I know what kind of effort and work they have (free of charge) poured into their versions first hand so, I don’t reflect lightly upon that. I have great respect for both, however I don’t share their views on how the best way to MTW-bliss is achieved, that’s all.

As for the hardest version of MTW, I think that is a subject for wide open debate. There are many factors to consider in such a discussion to be sure. Also, hard does not necessarily mean good or interesting (as you seem to indicate yourself), and if I’m forced to choose between them it will be good and interesting above hard. At any rate, I personally feel that redux is probably among the most challenging versions released to date (right or wrong, I must anyhow come clean in that I have not tried out all other versions available, just so that this is clear to everybody). It is very likely that redux is far more lethal than other versions and that is a special characteristic for redux for sure, along with plenty of other things that are special and probably unique with it so far.


”Since your game has so many turns, maybe it is an idea to slow down the progress by lenghtening the buildtime of buildings. That way we can enjoy a longer time with your less superior units in battle.”

I have worked with redux in various forms for 4 years so I am quite content with how things are (suffice to say, I have tested and considered this more than once). If you feel the need or have an urge to change it for your personal game, do so, but I want it the way it is. The tech-trees have been a subject that I have probably worked a lot more with than many others so there are no things there I am uncertain of so far. If you want less superior units, just commission more of them and the problem is solved. Besides it is highly unlikely that you will have the cash to “build” all the troops you want all the time and thus you’ll be forced to consider cheaper alternatives at times. That circumstance is by conscious design.


”I'm kindoff sad that I have to throw them to the side so soon, to be able to match the heavies from the enemy. You have a real richness in unit choise.”

Well this part of the redux arms-race, that’s how things are and that is what you get with an improved and recalibrated AI, at least when I have done it. As for the richness of troops, well this is a pure design-matter; I have designed it that way because I want it like that. I want to have choice and options, where as the original offers little. So I changed it. You know, you still have a choice to use such “inferior” troops if that is what you like, but as you said, it will be problematic when you face the AI. That’s redux...


”Just some idea's. But maybe you have thought these things over already for years and have no desire to change it.”

As I said I worked with redux in various forms since 2004, the available public version found its essential form in 2007. Default redux works, and as much as I am always interested in various ideas, I have in most cases thought things thru more than once and what you are playing now is the end result of my conclusion that such form and design is the best possible for that so far. Changes are only made if they prove to be more in line with my overall intensions for redux. There have been a few such examples after the first release but they are fairly rare (the aspects of some Byzantine units are such examples for instance, Western and Baron von Manteuffel helped me with that, again thanks guys). These changes are not to be taken lightly since they simply must be better in every regard to be justified, also they must function with the other already existing material in the game as well. That craves either extensive experience of the game, its designs and mechanics or some solid testing - preferably both. As simple as that, otherwise “you” would end up with a pretty crappy game fairly soon.

Now, by all means feel free to present any ideas and I will welcome that, but don’t expect me to jump at them the first thing I do, because that would simply be hoping for too much. Besides what might seem great for you might seem to be crap for me and vice versa of course. It is not by any way certain that we share views on all different issues. Also, I have said it before and I’ll say it again, do a redux-mod and release it as an optional expansion or something, it would be great. I am still waiting for the barons Order-expansion mod for instance! Hehe! There are among other things 12 vacant unit-slots available for you guys, use them! If you want heroes, put them in! - I have made that blank for that very reason, so you guys could do that on your own (VI-version only thou).


”One more note: I noticed that Byz recruits mostly skirmish units. That makes them weak I think.”

Keep a close eye on that for me, if this turns out to be more than a temporary thing it is well worth investigating further, because that is not the overall plan here. However, I do suspect it to be just a temporary thing.

Boz: No problems man... Hopefully you now know where I stand in regards to the longbow and the reasons as for why. It is radical and problematic decision no doubt, but I personally think it is well worth it since it creates a tactical diversity and reflect the longbow for what it is. It also creates an option to fight in that special “English way” if one wants to do that, and I do like the fact that the player has the option and liberty to choose whether or not he/she wants to use that way or not. Instead of simply removing that choice from the player as most designers would probably do and certainly all other versions of MTW have done so far (or perhaps applying a lame ridiculed version of it). No, I want that choice to be made by the player, not by the designer.


Noone23: Now, lets set the record straight shall we? Because the way it is now, it is way too off track and distorted for my taste. The rest is in the spoiler...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

First of all, you asked for pointers to help you in your persuit for the HRE superreich thing, I provided you with answers and such. Still here you are questioning my know how by implying that there could be a bug-risk to the pointers I gave you. And yet you have at the same time used the very stuff I have provided you with? If you suspected there was a bug-risk to the stuff, why on earth do you apply them then? You can’t have it both ways you know...


Secondly, I did not (and still don’t) resent the fact that you chose to do alterations on redux (I might have personal opinions on WHAT you appear to have done, but that is not the same thing). I have time and time again suggested to people to do their own adjustments, additions or full mods if they wanted or felt an urge to do that. That won’t become any less true just because you choose to blatantly ignore that fact (I have done it in this thread several times, which by the way you claimed to have done some reading on, and it is also in plain black and white in the redux read me-file as well).

What I do not care much for was the fact that you claimed to steamroll all over the game (Europe) with your “so many smashing victories” and “to another lopsided win” and all that highflying bunch of crap. This is what I had problems with, nothing else. I still am very sceptical and doubtful to the substance and the validity in all these claims, and it is my right to be so regardless if you like it or not. To me it certainly came across like an attempt of trying to be "oh so" impressive and that the game could not offer "mighty you" any resistance at all (thus actually indirectly implying that I have done a poor job with the redux).

What you were blatantly vague on however was the fact that you had so heavily altered the game into something that seems to have no sporting chance what so ever of offering you anything short of a futile sequence of one-sided slaughter to your favour and all this was/is all by your very own design. A fact, I still think, you were way too vague about in that initial post. You have still not come all clean with all that, exactly what you have actually done. And yes, the more you have revealed about you “alterations” the more your initial “lopsided wins” has become more and more questionable in their nature considering the circumstances.

The steamroller was made by your design, the superior troops was made by you design, starting cash and all other stuff you have done to further extinguish any possible way for the AI to offer any sort of meaningful resistance thus throwing out any balance and all functional design out the window. On top of the fact that you do play on easy level as if your “heavy alterations” was not enough for you. Obviously you want to have the combat bonuses and the AI penalties as well. And, after that you still have the stomach to implicitly question the AIs and games capabilities to offer you a challenge. It does not add up, not even by a long shot, and all this on a public forum concerning a game that I have designed as well, not you. A place where you can’t expect people to read things thru closely thus there is a very possible risk that it could be mistakenly interpreted to be representative of the public version of redux. All this because you consciously or unconsciously (it does not matter really) did not bother to be clear enough about that fact, particularly on what you have actually have done to your home-edition of redux. Hell, I still don’t know what you have actually done with your favourite units because that is still not revealed.

Yeah, you did not think of all that I have gathered that much but let me tell you, I did... That’s what I have problems with, nothing else. Besides I have even gone so far as to help you out to further this personal goal of yours in making the HRE invincible (regardless of my personal feelings) and yet here you are suggesting in your post that I have resented the possibility that people might change redux. Again you can not have it both ways. Chose one and stick with it...


Thirdly, I have already stated (in my very first post directed towards you, post: 168) that I had hopes that you were having fun with redux in your own special way the exact words were: “I hope that you are having lots of fun with redux in your on [own] special-edition way...” I have had no reasons to change that statement so far. In spite of that fact, here you are, suggesting in your post that I am unable to be happy about you having fun with what used to be redux, in spite of the fact that I explicitly stated that I have nor should have any rights to question the various decisions you do at home with your game. Still here you are, suggesting otherwise in your post. You really are piece of work do you know that. For the third and final time, you can not have it both ways, you choose and then you stick with that choice...

As for the abbey, I always welcome and appreciate any spotting of all possible errors in redux (it serves us all so it is basically a good thing). In this particular case, that error was discovered about a month ago by Orph (see post: 93) and both the Superfix and VI-Upgrade 1.0 has been released after that discovery so I suggest that you do update your game before you try to report in possible errors (it helps and you don’t have to look bad in the process).

FOR THE RECORD; a game is just a game generally speaking, no questions and problems there. However, in a conventional meaning that means that you also must have a prospect to have more than one possible outcome otherwise it ceases to be a game and becomes a sequence of some sort. This is one of the very defining aspects of a game (I should know since I have actually bothered to study these things and have written papers on that subject as part of my formal education). We obviously don’t have the same views on that and because of this it is problematic/hard for me personally to regard your home-version as a functional game; to me it appears more to be a sequence instead, as far as I can tell at any rate. Redux is probably “just” another game for you (no surprises there), but to me it “just” happens to be the end result of some 4 years of unpaid toil and hard work as well. So it probably will not be “just” a game to me. I thought I’d make that clear for you as well before you start going further down that road...


Now, I have been more than kind to you Noone23, but even my patience and good will has limits. I offer you a second chance to get out of all this clean (no grudges attached) by dropping all this nonsense and inconsequence of your post and limit your further contributions to things regarding and relevant to default redux from now on. Then I will forget all about this crap and start all over with you. Because I won’t offer that chance to you a third time, is that clear? What happens next is now entirely in your hands.

Start over, or shall I start doing some ignoring on my own? It's your call....


- Cheers
----------
Joh, perhaps you might have some suggestions to William here since you have played (still plays?) the Russians if I remember everthing correctly?
Is there something that might be worth mentioning here?

[William the Silent]

Axalon, thanks for your great replies allways. You're a dedicated man.

I'm sorry that I didn't try all of your suggestions about reviving these english. I apreciate your concern/time for it. My problem was I only had that last save (I keep more saves now). I moved and tweeked to get my king older, but after 10 times of reloading I had enough. And I do not have time to change things inside the game, or learn about it.

How can you make screenshots actually in MTW? It doesn't work the same as in RTW.

You're game is fine as it is. I just try to give my input to maybe make it better. I have no problem with it if you don't use my idea's. Totally fine. I understand you thought everything through already.

I will not comment on the other Mods. I agree with what you say about that. I think they all have something great and unique.

I tried to make a screenshot of these Byzantines with their too many skirmishers, but as I said I didn't know how, in this game: "Print screen" doesn't work.

I wrote down what an average stack looks like for both Byzantines and Lithaunians up till turn 900.
Byzantines actually lost a lot of units, because they are getting clobbered by the Saracens. I guess skirmishers are the first casualties, since they have declined in the Byzantines. Lithaunians didn't loose many units yet in battle.
Lithaunians stack: 4 Bodyguard units, 1 spear unit, 1 sword unit, 1 archer unit, 4-5 skirmish units, 2-3 ballista units.
Byzantine stack: 4 Bodyguard units, 1-2 spear units, 1 sword unit, 2-3 archer units, 4-5 skirmish units, 1 ballista unit.

Btw. the russians are doing good. Have established armies with spearman (valour 2) and anything else armour 3, 5 star generals, superior sea power north and Black Sea. Plenty of heirs.
Saracenes are dominating again. I made them my friend (untill I see weakness) and then

[Kaidonni]

Long time no post on these forums...

William the Silent>In MTW, you have to use F2 for screenshots. They are then stored as .tga files in their own folder, which should be located in the main folder where the .exe is. It'd be the folder named TGAs.

I'm considering trying my hand at this mod. I've been having a break from MTW, but the urge to play is growing on me. I wonder...are there any plans for factions like Sicily being included at any point in the future?

[Axalon]

Hi guys,

Will: Ok, I have checked out the skirmishers myself. The current AI-settings do what it is supposed to, as it is not only building skirmishers. However, it is just barely acceptable. I also think that there are too many skirmishers (and archers) around for the Byzantines. And, as I look upon the values it sure looks like I have missed it and current numbers seem completely unacceptable. This means Will that you have earned yourself another credit and I’ll be forced to do something to remedy the current situation. I will have to recalibrate sections of the AI-matrix again and especially focusing on Byzantium, “crap-troops” in general or low-end units so the opposition will be a bit wiser (I’ll also remove the discount on English longbows, why on earth is that still around?). Thanks for that discovery Will, I appreciate it.

So, I guess just me and the good ‘ol “crusaders_unit_prod11.txt”-file again (just like old times). A bit more serious, it might very well be that I will release a fix for this, we’ll see, no ETA however… In the mean time feel free to keep the rest of us posted on Russia and what happens there under your rule.… Oh yes before I forget, the printscreen works but you’ll have to push it 2-3 times, and then it works.


Kaidonni: I bid you welcome and thanks for helping out here. I actually have forgotten about the “F2” button but here you reminding me again, thanks.

Now, I am afraid I’ll have to disappoint you concerning the Sicilians. Since Redux was originally built for MTW-v1.1 and the Lombard’s have replaced the Sicilians there is no prospect of such a development in any “official” redux expansions by me. That would simply tear the two redux-versions (VI/v2.01 and v.1.1) apart even more and I don’t want that at all. I am trying to keep them together as much as possible, so that won’t happen, sorry.

However that does not in any way exclude the possibility that someone else could do a mod-expansion with the Sicilians in the VI-version (getting the colours right and all), perhaps you are that someone? Technically it’s very possible and all GFX is already done in the original and you could easily copy the Italian reduxed tech-tree and tactical profile and before you know it you got your sicilians in redux. That’s the best I can do for you at the moment, sorry.

I hope that won’t scare you off from giving redux a spinn, I would actually be suprised if you were sorry for trying it out. My guess is that most people judge redux based upon one campaign, even if campaigns usually is very diffrent one from the other (even with the same faction). Well, well your’e the boss, so it’s all your call...






REDUXED TREES ANYONE?
-------------------------
Here is a little something I did a few days ago, it sure makes the battlesfields a little more colourful, and that never hurts! Now, this was/is actually indented for later release but for those of you who are avid readers, updaters and downloader’s here at the redux corner this is a special early sneak-peak of this stuff for you. It will be kind of an optional fix until it will be included in a bigger release. We had too much people not realizing that they should have updated their games long time ago. He he! It should pay off to stay alert I think! I’ll have to pack and upload it first and then I will set up a link for you guys soon.


- Cheers

[Baron von Manteuffel]

Hey Axalon, are all the Redux faction difficulty levels determined while playing on the expert setting? Just wondering. I started a campaign with the English using the Expert setting and tried to stimulate a cash flow. Then I was offered the alliances and excepted all including France.

While pre-occupied with the cash flow thing, the French attacked and took Normandy. They then destroyed my little fleet and it was just a few turns later, began to attack the rest of Great Britain. I just couldn't recover and bailed out.

I then tried the Hard setting and though I had more florins and did a little better, eventually history repeated itself. Again, the back-stabbing French. I gave up once more. Started another campaign on the Normal setting but gave that up too because, after all the struggles on the Expert and Hard settings Normal was no longer enough of a challenge.

Went back to the Expert setting with a plan this time. Every English campaign seem to present one major problem, the French. This time I built some English Spearmen, and Regular Infantry, and took the battle to them with an attack on Ile De France. Beat them there and let the French King have Anjou. That is the best plan of action I've found for the English. You have to stop, or at least slow, the aggressive French.

I believe I'm hooked now on the challenge of the Expert setting. You really need to monitor all your generals loyalty levels though to avoid a Civil War.

In reguards to units I like the Royal Guard and Heavy Infantry. I wanted to ask you what your idea was with the English, Spanish, and Frankish Knights? I thought they would be more of an elite unit because of the building requirements, but after looking at the CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.TXT, they closely resemble the Fuedal Knights. In fact they look weaker. Their charge value is 5 while the Fuedal Knight is 12. I know sword and lance but maybe give them armour piercing? Other than the cheaper cost for the English (etc) knights, I see no reason to build them.

By the way, I like what you did with Longbows and agree with you that they are now accurately portrayed. Yes!

[William the Silent]

Hm, I had different experience with the english. Maybe because of different tactics.
I played on Hard. I noticed that opponents (France) do not attack if you have equal force strenght.
So in the beginning I moved my strongest units to Normandy. France never attacked me.
England was weak, but rebels normally do not attack.
I surrounded the Isles with ships to prevent it from being invaded. Then I started building a force to take all of the Isles. English economy is good.

For a long time nobody, but me, built fleets.

After I had taken Flanders (flemish spearman are great) and Friesland with forces built in England, I noticed that at the moment I left one of these provinces weak, the french would attack.

I must say it's a "chess game" to defeat the french, or any other faction. I try to weaken them by bribing one stack before I attack .

One of my tactics is setting up a trap. I leave one provence weak knowing they will attack. Once they attack I close in behind that invading army next turn, while attacking the invading army with held back force from the Isles. Sometimes the invading army chooses to retreat and is lost totally, because their way back is blocked. So double victory. You hope their king is in there then
That's the way you can defeat Moors in Spain. Let them invade you and block their way back home, by taking all seas with your fleets, behind them .

I know how to establish myself and beat off any attack, but defeating factions is very hard.

I guess Axalon did a great job.

[Hugalu]

I need some help installing this mod.

I followed the exact steps in the installation guide, but it didn't work.

Here is what I did, please tell me what I did wrong:

1. Downloaded the mod & related files.
2. Reinstalled the original Medieval Total War.
3. Unzipped the mod, renamed Redux Total War to Medieval - Total War and copied it over to replace the original game.
4. Created a short cut then ran the mod.
5. It didn't work, kept telling me to put in the correct disc.
6. Help!!!

[Baron von Manteuffel]

I need some help installing this mod.

I followed the exact steps in the installation guide, but it didn't work.

Here is what I did, please tell me what I did wrong:

1. Downloaded the mod & related files.
2. Reinstalled the original Medieval Total War
3. Unzipped the mod, renamed Redux Total War to Medieval - Total War and copied it over to replace the original game.
4. Created a short cut then ran the mod.
5. It didn't work, kept telling me to put in the correct disc.
6. Help!!!

Which game version did you install? If you installed (original) Medieval Total War Version 1.1 then you need Redux 1.0b and that's all. If you also installed Redux VI-Upgrade 1.0 and use the Medieval Total War Version 1.1 disc, you'll get that error message.

[Kaidonni]

Hey Axalon, thanks for the reply. I might consider adding the Sicilians in the VI version at some point, and don't worry about it, no problem that you don't want to add them in. Besides, I've got to try me the English first. Especially with Normandy. :D

EDIT: Ah, I didn't notice the Lombards on the pics on the first page. For some reason, I assumed the Italians were the Lombards, but I can see a small faction between Italy and Burgundy. Nice! I'm VERY tempted to try them first, I absolutely love one province factions (no joke - I was sad when, in XL 3.0 and Tyberius' mods, Sicily also had Naples, but on the flipside happy that England had been downsized).

[Hugalu]

Which game version did you install? If you installed (original) Medieval Total War Version 1.1 then you need Redux 1.0b and that's all. If you also installed Redux VI-Upgrade 1.0 and use the Medieval Total War Version 1.1 disc, you'll get that error message.

Ok, I think I know what the problem is. I think I have the Gold Edition game and not the original 1.1. Therefore, I need to also install the Redux VI-upgrade 1.0. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks.

[Axalon]

Hello everyone,

He he! And who said the redux-AI could not be aggressive!?? Yet again we have an obvious example of the contrary! No, the AI behaviour is wide open for debate! The redux-AI can be both aggressive and defensive, and I think that this is great because that means that you never know for sure what it will actually do and that is unpredictability for you guys!


Baron: As usual, my thanks for holding the fort. You know the drill by now and you got the info straight and that’s the way should be. That way we can all help each other a lot faster! I sure appreciate it as you know and I only wish that more people would follow your example here.

Now, you are having problems with the English? Well, as I said time and time again. campaigns differ from each other, even if it is with the same faction. If nothing else you have now discovered first hand that redux can strike back at you, which is a nice trait I think. It makes the game more fun, interesting and challenging. As you all too well know, I always play on expert regardless any other variable, and I have played England a lot my self and I have never had such problems you had, so my guess is that this is something to do with the unpredictability of redux and maybe some of your strategies.

What is clear is that the French AI will definitely consider attacking Normandy, and that’s quite understandable since it is a rich province with some development as well. It is a tempting target basically, and the AI is more interested in those than any others. If you do not defend such a target properly, it will be invaded. It’s just a matter of time. Now, how about building some troops (light cavalry and some other stuff, also move in 100 men from Wessex (your Feudal Infantry + English spearmen) for instance that should work just fine and some further buildings as well? Yeah, it will take time but that’s a part of the game. The start is usually one of the most critical phases in a game; redux is probably not an exception.

As for the English (etc.) knights your observations are quite correct, they do resemble the feudal knights very much (that was/is the plan), but they do offer a cost-flexibility to you as your realm becomes more developed and that’s the major point with them. However, since they got swords instead of lances their charge values are adjusted to that fact, hence a lot less charge-bonus. They are available at half the cost of a full formation of feudal knights (which is expensive), but come with the penalty that they only got swords. Essentially they are half-formations of feudal knights (but with swords).

As for favourite troops, yeah “Heavy Infantry” and “Royal Guards” are mine as well. “Royal Guards” are really tough formations, not big but tough. A typical Axalon army will have a core of Heavy Infantry and some royal and feudal knight-formations (which is also favourites of mine). Almost all my generals are always royal knights if I play the English, leading at the front of the army… It’s just my style, I am well aware of the risks and that others have a very different style of commanding their troops. “Looking thru the binoculars” at a safe distance, so to speak. It’s not for me…

As for the difficulty setting, it is based on several things but should be regarded as valid for normal setting above all.

Finally, it seems that William have devised a plan to beat the AI by exploiting weaknesses in the hardcoded behaviour. Most games have these kinds of weaknesses and there is little I can do to counter it. Then again, it is just a question of time before stuff like that happens.


Hugalu: Welcome to the redux corner, I hope you will have a good stay here. Feel free to post in campaign-reports, detailed battle reports or any other redux related stuff that you deem interesting to the rest of us and by all means any questions as well. We’ll be waiting here for the good news (you getting redux up and running)! Good luck!


Kaidonni: knock yourself out with the Lombards! However, you should be aware that the Lombard’s are not included in the default redux settings (minor power), meaning you won’t get any intro-text and if you play a glorious achievements campaign, you can’t check the scores because the Lombard’s don’t have any shield for that (if I remember it correctly), so the game will crash. Other than that it should work just fine playing the Lombard’s. Also, you will have to fix the “startpos” campaign-file manually. Overall the Lombard’s circumstances are very similar to the Italians (maybe slightly harder, having just one province and all that). Happy fighting!


Will: You sneaky….. He he! I have done a few of those myself over the years, but with a very different agenda. Mine was to force the AI to fight me, yours seem to be an intricate manoeuvre of defence instead. He he! Anyway, it’s good stuff. The redux corner is the right place to share strategy and tactics, so you’re right on. As for having a hard time breaking the opposition, this is redux! It’s supposed to be like that! He he! Have fun…


- Cheers

[Axalon]

Alright guys, here is the "GreenTrees"-fix. This optional fix will change the trees in battle-mode
so they will be a bit more colourful, as simple as that! You can download it here:

Download MTW-Redux GreenTrees_Fix.zip:
Removed


- Enjoy

[William the Silent]

Axalon I tried your new "tree" fix. Something must have gone wrong:

[Joh]

Hi there,

I know, I know, long time no see. It has been a very hectic time lately, with a lot of tight deadlines at work and tons of family appointments and obligations, which all combined has left me with no possibility of extending my Russian empire. In any case, I have kept myself well updated with the contents of this thread. I am happy to see (even though surely not as much as Axalon) the increasing number of active members in the “Redux corner”.

Anyway, yesterday I told myself, enough is enough, and after putting wife and kid to bed, I grabbed a nice bottle of wine, switched on my old computer (only one usable for MTW) and settled myself for a nice Redux late-night show.

Read at your own discretion:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To get a context picture, I should say that the Russian horde had already control over the Steppes, form Lithuania and Kiev to Khazar (spelling???). In any case, I play in hard (yes, I am a sissy) and I am a very cautious player, setting technical/infrastructural development over military might.

In my last session, I continued deploying my naval trade network at the maximum pace I could afford, cutting down in infrastructure expense and above all, troops production. In any case, after a few peaceful years, secured by my network of alliances, my fleet extended from Novgorod to the Black See, giving me a huge trade revenue … or at least compared to the meagre income I had at the beginning of the campaign (at this point Novgorod gave around 2.2k per turn).

The AI is building nice size armies when it can afford it. My Byzantine neighbours had 2-3 stacks per province around my borders, but the French are still the main military might of the known world. My Polish border on the other hand, is basically demilitarised, a long stretch of no-mans land. Soon enough as I feared (and somehow hoped for, as I tend not to start wars to easily overwhelm the AI) the Byzantines make their move. My only complain is that it was a very bold one: they try to sink my mighty fleet with their pathetic two vessel fleet. The result, two naval victories and no Byzantine fleet no more. And now comes my shameful sneaky move: taking advantage of my naval superiority I land a huge army at Byzantium itself where the Byzantine king is taking a little rest from the front lines. As every single time in MTW, the AI surrenders the province not to get the king stacked in a sieged castle. Byzantium (and its wooping 4.5k a turn) is mine.

As for AI behaviour, next turn the AI reacts pretty well sending large multiple-stacks armies to all our border provinces, Byzantium, Kiev and Khazar. Unfortunately (for the AI of course) I crush every single one of these attacks taking so many prisoners my war ships are about to sink.

And there we are now, after playing 3 major battles until 3:00 am, I decided it was time to quit. All-and-all, a very enjoyable late-night Redux show. Well, the morning was not that good with the kid waking up at 6:00 am and demanding constant attention, but well, I suppose that is the price you have to pay for waging war.

Some of my feelings/comments about the campaign:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Early in the campaign, I thought “Slavic bowmen” rocked as they could decimate half a rebel army in a bridge battle when attacking. They have superb range and pretty good damage. They delivered a good 200 kills per unit. Of course, the rebel were not really armoured, which did not helped them much. So, why do I need crossbows for? The have shorter range and enormously long reloading times. They are obsolete, why keep them?
  
• A little further into the campaign I realised how premature my first impression was. Now I realise crossbowmen are death incarnate on the battlefield. On defence, they are consistently delivering 200 kills per unit … with more than half the ammunition left.
  
• Now that I can afford it, large cavalry units are über devastating .. at least against the Byzantines, but I would imagine 133 horsemen charging anything could be quite a sight.
  
• Does it pay of to build very high end units despite their much lower men count? Royal Spearmen (or something like that) come in a 53 men package, is that enough to be effective against either a cavalry charge or an average-stat 100 men sword unit? I have to confess I have not seen them fight yet.

On the tactical side:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• It is true the Byzantines field a huge amount of missile units, so they are easily beatable with a horde of horsemen … which is the Russian approach. When you field 4-5 133 horsemen units plus your generals, mostly of royal blood, the Byzantines are dead meat. Anyway, I think you already changed that.
  
• I am actually looking forward to finishing off the Byzantines so I can have a go at the Saracens, mainly because their armies are mostly Saracen Spearmen and Camel Warriors, so I do not think the cavalry approach would work very well here. I can still remember the massacre the Camel Warriors made of my Christian Knights on the original game.
  
• After the Byzantines attacked me, all my allies abandoned me, and do not consider my marriage proposal anymore. I suppose they are getting a little bit scared of my power, which is good. Maybe we can see a firm alliance opposing my Russian mighty warriors.
  
• Sorry, I know I already mentioned it, but I would do it again anyway. Is there any way to set a higher priority for ship construction for the AI? Now only England (1), Italy (2) and Spain (1) have boats on the water. No boats, no trade. No trade, no money. No money, no war machine.

On the bug/fixable/suggestion side:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• I might be wrong, but I have not been able to find my Khazar governor anywhere. Maybe the title is lost? Maybe my eye sight is crap?
  
• What does the “ruin ….” Building really do? I suppose it is happiness, but it is not stated on the card description. It just says something about bridging together the real and spiritual worlds (ok, that was kind of a personal description).
  
• Russian hero does not have picture, but a number of question marks (maybe intended?). I am actually looking forward to building one of these, but since the description says keep protected from arrows and the Byzantines have mainly missile units, I do not know whether I will get to see him fight at all.
  
• Ok, this one is going to be annoying, I know. I am a spoiled brat, I know. The thing is, I am one of those who followed Frogbeastegg’s bible and get a little bit lost when I do not know the stats of my units. Is there an easy way to create a chart like that? Please, remember I am a full blown ignorant.

And that would be all. I know, it was long.

[Hugalu]

I finally got the game to work. The game sure is on par with the original Medieval Total War, and it does have a lot of new, never seen before units. The game is also much harder since the costs to construct buildings went sky high. The battles seem a bit weird, where the units look like a swarm of ants. The game also has a few bugs where when loading a battle up it will say unable to find some files, then exit out of the battle. The game starts out slow since you don't have much money to build at the beginning, but once you built some income generating buildings, then you will be ok with money. Overall, the game needs some improvements but it is good for the first try.

[Rick]

I only recently stumbled onto this mod. It's become very addicting.

[Joh]

[...] The battles seem a bit weird, where the units look like a swarm of ants. The game also has a few bugs where when loading a battle up it will say unable to find some files, then exit out of the battle [...]

Hi Hugalu,

Regarding the look of the units, do they actually look weird? It might have something to do with your graphics card or drivers. Mine look fine ... ok, they look as weird as the original game when you compare them to the newer Total War releases.

Regarding missing files when loading up the battles, you might want to check your installation. I do not think anybody has complain about that, and definitely not on the campaign game. For me, this is the most stable TW series mode I have ever played, and I have played a few total conversions. Admittedly, I have not played that much (100 turns in each of my two campaigns) but not a single crash, works flawlessly for me.

[Hugalu]

The cavalry units look fine, just the infantry units that look weird. The game overall is fast and all, but it does lack the varieties of factions and events that other mods have. I like it the way it is, but if it can be expanded a little bit more it will be better.

[Joh]

The cavalry units look fine, just the infantry units that look weird. The game overall is fast and all, but it does lack the varieties of factions and events that other mods have. I like it the way it is, but if it can be expanded a little bit more it will be better.

Ok, now I just HAVE to have a look at my infantry with a more critical eye. I will let you know tomorrow as tonight I will continue my struggle against Byzantium ... hopefully not until as late as yesterday .

[Axalon]

Hi guys and a special welcome to Rick, (this is a big one)

Joh: its nice have you back here and posting, and as always my thanks for holding the fort here. You’re post interesting and it deserves some further comments and reflection I think and don’t mind it being big, just as long it is interesting which it is (in my book at least. Besides it is nicely formatted which certainly helps “you” to forget the size). However, I will get back to it later, because I want to give it my full attention, and with the blatant oddities described by Hugalu, I am unable to do that for the moment. Sorry… I WILL get back to it!


Rick: I bid you welcome to the redux corner, your post were short, but sweet! Feel free to lengthen it a bit next time, and I do hope we get at least another post from you! Have fun with redux! Oh, what are you playing and at what diff-setting?


Will: you rascal! Hehe! I had it coming I’d guess, since I have done some crappy jokes on you as well lately. Hehe! I have already devised a fix for that “error”; you turn the monitor upside down! Then they will work as supposed to!

A little bit more serious thou, way what do think of it? The trees I mean? I personally feel that the battlefield has become a bit more colourful and the trees actually resemble trees now instead of dark shadows of trees.

NOTE: For all you other guys, it’s just a prank from Will directed to me, nothing else!
The GreenTrees-fix works just fine! I repeat, it works just fine!


Hugalu: Your recent posts have certainly caught my attention and that is for numerous of reasons. First of all, are you sure that you actually have redux up and running? Is the “frontend” blue and with different music and sounds? Because what you are describing certainly makes me wonder if that is really the case. It certainly does not sound to be a redux in “perfect health” so to speak. Anyway this entire post has major "Hugalu-theme" all over it. More in spoilers....

Regarding claimed bugs...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The bugs you are claiming to have, what exactly are they? Because you claiming the existence of them is not going to help anybody if you do not describe and report them in properly. I’m sorry, but that’s the hard reality. As for the moment we only got your word for it, we don’t even have a description how they look like or where they are located. With just your word and claim, we can’t really do anything for you (or anybody else for the matter). You’ll have to do better than that if I and others are supposed to fix it, just so you know, I do take bugs very seriously, probably all the regular guys here can confirm that. Are you really sure it is a bug you have stumbled upon? Maybe it is just a misunderstanding from your part or it could be a corrupt save at an early stage of the game? If that is the case it is really unfortunate, but that is actually not reduxes fault because that is related to a flaw in the code of the original game.

I don’t know much here and thus I can only do some wild speculation (and that is not very productive), since you have so far given me almost nothing to go on here. Are you sure you have patched up your game to v.2.01? Or is it just 2.00? Check in the upper left corner of “frontend”, the version is displayed there. Basically you MUST provide more info if you want something to be done about it.

Ants, bugs and weird battles...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

“The battles seem a bit weird, where the units look like a swarm of ants. The game also has a few bugs where when loading a battle up it will say unable to find some files, then exit out of the battle.”

This really got me wondering, the units look like ants?!? What the…. As in compared with what? The original game? Another later total war game? What?!? Is there a major (even a minor) difference with the troops compared to the original (excluding shields and such)? That is the only really interesting question really. I sure would appreciate a straight up answer on that. I might sound pushy but you are too vague here for my personal preference, could you please be a more specific and explicit? As for the battle-bugs they are so far unheard of, frankly I have run redux thousands of times and I simply can’t spot or remember any of what you are describing here, I’m sorry, but it does not exist in fully functional version of redux. Are you really sure you have patched up your game 2.00 to 2.01 and is that the install made on a fresh copy of v.2.01 (it was gold edition right)?

Hold on!!! It actually sounds like a corrupted save come to think upon it. As I said earlier, that is something solely related to the original game and not redux, my guess is that this might very well be the case.

To find that out Hugalu, here is what you do:

* start up a custom battle, same factions and at least similar troop’s composition.
* start up another campaign (temporarily) same faction and do a fight or two. You don’t even have to win here.

If neither of these show any similar errors as you have experienced earlier, you got a corrupted save on your hands. If that is the case open up the MTW-redux 1.0b ReadMe.txt the “known bugs” section and read the info available there. Other than that there is little you can do than to go back to an earlier save or start a new campaign, sorry but this is not my fault it is a flaw in the CAs original game. The only thing that might be fortunate here is the fact that you have become aware of this at an early stage and can take counter-measures to that from now on. We have had reports from a few people that have lost their campaigns after more than 100 turns in and they was forced to start over because they did not keep backup-saves. The whole thing is really sad chapter in MTW actually and that have also cast its unfortunate shadow over redux as well (after all redux uses and runs the same game program).


“… just the infantry units that look weird. The game overall is fast and all,…

Ok, more of the oddities… How does the infantry look weird and the especially interesting aspect is; do they look weird in any way compared to the original game? If so, how?!? If it is compared with another later official TW-game it is matter way beyond my control. Then it is a matter for CA, not me and redux.

Regarding design-matters...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

“The game is also much harder since the costs to construct buildings went sky high.” …“The game starts out slow since you don't have much money to build at the beginning, but once you built some income generating buildings, then you will be ok with money.

Now this is a lot easier for me to grasp and comment on. This stuff is all related to design matters and as such we enter the domain of ideas, opinions, preferences and functionality. I have designed it that way because I thought it was better that way, I like it like that and I think it creates a more interesting game as well, that is my opinion and preference and my ideas are influenced by those. As for the functionality, it works and that is beyond any doubt. Do you like and prefer it? That’s an entirely different thing… Hopefully you find these traits in the game attractive as well, I really can’t say much more than that. Only you can determine that.

Improvements and first tries...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

“Overall, the game needs some improvements but it is good for the first try.

Again you are too vague to enable me to produce meaningful answers or even a comments to that statement. What improvements are you talking about? Are they even technically possible to do these changes whatever they might be? There are always the possibilities for further improvements, redux is along with everything else (and I mean everything) is no exception. A more interesting question is; is it possible to do it? If we can, should we? Will it actually end up being better? And as for the last of these questions it is a matter of opinion, preference, speculation and perhaps experience to a certain degree as long as it remains undone and untested.

As for the first try, the redux-version you are playing, its basic design was set in 2007, after I had redesigned redux two or three times before… First major try was perhaps in late 2004 or early 2005. So, it’s not the first try, just thought I’ll clear that up for you. I aint that good, and neither are any of the few other MTW-designers/modders that are out there and at the same time have managed to actually release any major and functional MTW-version of their own (no exceptions, it would be very unlikely at any rate).

Factions & variety...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

…but it does lack the varieties of factions and events that other mods have. I like it the way it is, but if it can be expanded a little bit more it will be better.

Ok, back to the dominion of opinions and preferences again… First of all, let me stress the fact that you are allowed to have whatever opinion you like, that is your privilege. By the very same concept I am fully entitled to mine. Now, my opinion (and preference) is that quality is (far) more interesting than quantity; diversity is (far) more interesting than conformity.

As for the sheer quantity aspect of factions is a thing I have discussed before (not explicitly in this thread thou) and by all means I can do it again. But, before I do so let me first present the actual and ruling practical framework for redux.


The ruling practical framework of redux
------------------------------------------
Now redux was built upon MTW v.1.1 that gives a maximum of 20 presentable factions in a pure practical sense, because any more than that will result in simply horrendous faction colour combinations. I was not willing to accept that so, max 20 it is… Apart from that, there are the hardcoded limits and anomalies of v.1.1, meaning that we can not get 20 fully functional and operational factions. The Papist is good example of that, so is the Russians (considering the actual time-frame for redux) and bunch of others. We are also stuck with the default colour schemes that are present in MTW v.1.1, we can’t change them, no matter what, because it is hardcoded. We are also stuck with the hardcoding of faction cultures, meaning that even if you can change this on the surface it will still operate along the lines of the hardcoded behaviours and circumstances. I know, because I have done it for redux.

Also there is there overriding agenda of mine that redux should be available for all major versions of MTW, meaning v.1.1 and VI/v.2.01. Apart from redux there is only one other version of MTW that have trait to my knowledge. Now, I want to keep it compatible to both major versions of MTW and at the same time have some sort of conformity between the two versions, as in effect two players of the different versions can still have a basic discussion of redux as a game, in spite of the fact that they are playing two different versions. Most MTW-versions just ignores that and goes directly and only to VI/v.2.01. But that’s not for me. I want redux to be available and playable for all owners of a MTW-copy. That just the way I want it (and that by the way do mean a lot more work as well). Now, that means undoubtedly that MTW v.1.1 will set the bar for what I can do for both versions, thus the absolute max of acceptable factions present in the game is 20. However, since 2 of these factions have almost the exact same colour-scheme it becomes 19 possible candidates, so the max is actually 19. That is the actual and ruling practical framework for redux.


Why does redux have only 18 factions?
------------------------------------------
Now, redux only got 18 factions (that is less than 19) so why is that? With the proper background now set, let the discussion begin then… First of all, the answers you will get on this subject vary greatly depending on who you are asking, now since I get the feeling that you indirectly asking me, here is my answer: Hehe, here we go…

Ok, so why have I only 18 factions? This is directly connected to my preferences and beliefs. I believe in the concept of “quality”, and the more factions I have, the greater risk it is that this “quality” will be endangered and more easily transform into something that could be regarded as “quantity”. I am well aware that other designers have very different views on this and that is reflected in their designs, which clearly shows in their released MTW-versions who are blatantly different from redux. It seems that it is a common opinion that more troops and more factions will secure a good game. I simply do not believe that, I just don’t. As I said elsewhere:

“ I think that the key to bliss [in MTW] is elsewhere; as in tech-trees or calibration of AI and diverse unit design for instance. Which probably are areas that might not have been quite that interesting for him as they are to me, thus underlining the differences between us (except perhaps the AI if I remember everything correctly since he was fairly interested in that)” (oh, don’t bother with who “he” is. It is irrelevant)

And…

“It is how the units are balanced and designed that matters to me, all else is secondary or cosmetics.”

And…

“1. Quantity of various troops does not in any way guarantee or secures neither a good game nor a good experience of it.
2. The risk of several troops to overlapping each other in capabilities, essential functions and purposes in the game increases for each new troop you put in there. Personally I’m not that excited about such prospects.
3. The risk of troops being poorly balanced (overpowered or underpowered) increases for each new tactical unit included in the game. This of course is always a risk, but it undoubtedly it gets bigger with more troops involved.”

And…

“… I have many times made the mistake of doing a new unit just to realize that it was not warranted (this of course after a lot of various work was already done, GFX-wise or whatever). Pouring in [totally from scrath] new troops is easier said than done, and more importantly will any of these new troops be warranted in regards to already existing units in the overall unit-grid? My experience is that after a while it becomes more and more “no” and less and less “yes”.

And (post:55)…

“It has never been my intension that the “tactical unit-profile” of Poland should be similar or resemble to the factions of western Catholic factions (as in Burgundy and France). It is very intentional that Poland greatly differs from all the other Catholic factions and that she relies much more on “Eastern” and Slavic-units. There is a designed and deliberate “cultural” difference applied here. We should not also forget that the opposition in the polish region is different then what is found in Frankish and Southern Europe (or at it least it should be, because I designed redux that way). And that is also reflected in the troops available to Poland.

And (post:80)…

The Moors as any other faction have limits and strengths. To me, cavalry and quantity are strong points for the Moors. Specialized infantry is one the weaker aspects. This together begins to draw a “profile” on that faction. Add to that a special tech-tree and the profile gets more explicit, then you have the aspect geography and regions and the profile evolves even further. This is the case for every faction in redux, to a more or less explicit degree depending on these parameters and others as well. Wealth is another aspect for instance. And were that wealth is found, as in which region you can find riches to commission expensive troops surely have an impact in the game. Regional development is another and the list can probably be expanded further.

The existing troops in redux works together in creating a diversity in the game yet they still balances each other out fairly well. Considering all the parameters involved here. To me there is no or little meaning of putting in new troops for the sake of it, because if those troops don’t have any real and valid function in the game, why are they there? There are of course a few exceptions, but there always are. My point being; any fool can fill the troop rooster to the max with let’s say “peasant Xs” and call them “Heavy Whateverings”. That’s not the trick, it is to give them purpose and diversity between them and thus strengthening the game and the experience of it as a whole, that’s the trick. That is at least the way I see it. Maybe you agree with me on this? It has definitely been my goal for redux at any rate.

And (post:116)…

Well this is something that I have tried to achieve by working a lot with unit-design, balance and tactical diversity, and the same time keeping an eye on tactical functions for each unit and the redux unit grid as a whole. I also thought that the standardized unit sizes could be torn apart to create some more interesting diversity (as you know this is not the only thing I have destroyed from the original game, the MTW projectile system is out the window for instance). The format of 20/40/60/100 formations is quite ok, but 1/5/10/20/40/60/80/100 is more diverse and interesting to me. Also it does allow you to expand the available tools of tactical diversity and unit-design in MTW. In the original there was too much conformity to my taste, almost all infantry units was 60/100 and cavalry was 20/40. I never really understood why it had to be like that. I wanted the diversity you get in redux so I designed it that way, as simple as that.


I might have done some further comments on this elsewhere but my point should be quite clear by now. Why the heavy focus on troops then?

Because it is the troops that to a significant degree creates and makes up the factions character (tech-trees and buildings are also other major factors). And, because the tactical diversity is limited by hardcoding the amount of meaningful units becomes limited. If they are limited, the amount of possible factions you can create with these troops are limited as well. This is at any rate my opinion.

Another excellent example of what I mean can be found in Shogun Total War. That game has fewer factions and less available unit-types than any other total war game and I dare say even modded versions of any Total War-game as well. Yet still it is in my mind one of the very best and most successful Total War games ever created (including different mods). That game proves my point and shows that it is very possible to achieve it - you don’t need quantity as long as you stick with, or successfully go for, quality in overall design. This is why I have only a limited amount of factions (and troops) in redux. My intension has been to have quality with the 18 existing factions I got (including troops, tech-trees, AI and basically the lot of it), that was/is my goal.

I firmly believe that redux won’t get better by adding several new factions (or troops) to it, it will probably get worse instead! This is why I have only 18 factions in redux.


However that does not mean...
------------------------------------------
Now having said all that, let me also point out that this does not in any way exclude the possibility that someone else, other than me, (that is not bound by the notion of keep both redux versions similar) could add an extra faction or two in the VI/v2.01-version of redux and thus creating an expansion for that. It would be fun and I welcome that! Besides redux will probably handle that quite well. It would be great if such a version was released! But, adding lets say five new factions?!? I seriously doubt that such an addition will help the game much. I would actually be rather worried for such a prospect, suspecting it to be five fateful and unfortunate steps towards quantity and personally I would think it to be a very regrettable development for redux (or any version for that matter).


So… There you have it... This is my answer for you and this is where I stand in this matter. It is not in any way a mere chance that I designed redux the way I did. As said earlier, there are plenty of people that don’t agree with me on the quantity vs. quality thing, including most other designers/modders. Perhaps you as well?

The events then…

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

All “historical events” are hardcoded. Personally I am not a big fan of those anyhow, it is too hap-hazard for my taste and since the default timeframe for redux is 700-1260 you will have to play for about 400 turns before the hardcoded events starts to kick in… I prefer it that way, since that means that these events won’t bother me for the major part of the game. However, it is very possible to change the timeframe, and if you feel the need to do that by all means do it. You will have various hardcoded events between 1089-1453 or there about. It’s your choice for your personal game man (and it probably won’t make that big impact on redux. Also there are simple guides for how it’s done)…

Ok, Hugalu that’s all I got for you this time. I would appreciate some answers myself, so please post some back here.


Cheers guys!

[Hugalu]

Yes, the game is Redux with a blue screen when loading up. Come on ;), I have about 6 mods total as of now, and I am not a kid that can't tell which game is which. :) I played as the Russians, expert mode. The game was tough at the beginning because I didn't have much money at the beginning, and the Lithuanian (light brown/yellow color) expanded so fast and so much. The weird thing about the error when it's loading the battle is sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. But the good thing is it doesn't shut the game down. It just exits the battle as if it never happens. The other thing is the AI is not as aggressive as other games. I meant they have 5-6 stacks of armies and still didn't dare to attack me, unless I attack them first.

[Axalon]

Hi Hugalu, (don’t take offence about the load-screen, there have been such related problems before)


* What about the ant-thing? What about that? I really like some answers on that….

* You have yet to report in the results of the corrupted-save-check I offered you. That way, it will become clear if it is a corrupted save or not. It sure would explain things...

* Is your version really 2.01? (I am just making sure here, that’s all.)


Your bug is actually unheard of… As I said I have run redux thousands of times and never anything like what you are describing. Besides, redux has been public for over two months and a problem such as this one you are describing *would* have been discovered. Especially since we were actually bug-hunting for over a month, so I am sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that it is a bug. My guess is that your install is not in perfect order, and for some reason, it may lack a unit-icon or something like that (god knows why, and that is very unlikely since that would have been discovered as well). It’s either that or a corrupted save (I believe it is a corrupted save).

As for the AI, don’t be so fast in judging it based on one single campaign. It changes much from campaign to campaign. There is a lot of external Intel on this very thread, apart from my own experiences with it, that paints a very diffrent picture. The AI behaviour is a subject wide open for debate. It’s unpredictable; it can both defensive and offensive. However, it does have a tendency to prepare itself before it goes to war (maybe you are unaccustomed to that, I don’t know). And, in a general sense it still is the coward of the original game, since that is all hardcoded.

Anyway, I hope you are having an intresting and fun game in spite of all the strange problems.


- Cheers

[Axalon]

Ok, this horde of verdanas is for you Joh, as in some replies and remarks for post: 197


“The AI is building nice size armies when it can afford it. My Byzantine neighbours had 2-3 stacks per province around my borders, but the French are still the main military might of the known world.”

Well France has a good potential of being a force to be reckoned with, due to the riches of the French region. France is without a doubt one of the richest factions in the game or at least it has that potential. All depending on how things look at the stratmap of course.


"…the Byzantines make their move. My only complain is that it was a very bold one: they try to sink my mighty fleet with their pathetic two vessel fleet."

Well as you might have guessed, the AI behaviour in these regards is for all I know hardcoded so I can't do anything about it, even if I wanted to. As for the naval aspect of MTW (and redux, this is after all hardcoded) is very debatable area, which no doubt leaves much to wish for.


”As every single time in MTW, the AI surrenders the province not to get the king stacked in a sieged castle. Byzantium (and its wooping 4.5k a turn) is mine."

Not perhaps every time, but way too much. I believe I have discussed this before somewhere in this thread. As for Constantinople, that is one of the richest provinces in redux (and MTW), because of that it is a popular target. It is very likely that you will have to defend it someday if you do not secure your borders close by.


“As for AI behaviour, next turn the AI reacts pretty well sending large multiple-stacks armies to all our border provinces, Byzantium, Kiev and Khazar. Unfortunately (for the AI of course) I crush every single one of these attacks taking so many prisoners my war ships are about to sink."

Hehe! Way to go!


"And there we are now, after playing 3 major battles until 3:00 am, I decided it was time to quit. All-and-all, a very enjoyable late-night Redux show. Well, the morning was not that good with the kid waking up at 6:00 am and demanding constant attention, but well, I suppose that is the price you have to pay for waging war."

Yep, there is price for everything I guess…


Feelings/comments about the campaign:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"A little further into the campaign I realised how premature my first impression was. Now I realise crossbowmen are death incarnate on the battlefield. On defence, they are consistently delivering 200 kills per unit … with more than half the ammunition left."

Well in single effect, crossbows are more lethal. The downside is of course reloading time and shorter range, and that are their real big weaknesses (short from the fact that they aint any “Conans” in battle of course). As every other unit, they have their place, purpose and weaknesses… However, it is an fairly even race between (real) archers and crossbowmen. Usually archers tend to be a tad better to defend themselves however (in general terms at least).

"Now that I can afford it, large cavalry units are über devastating .. at least against the Byzantines, but I would imagine 133 horsemen charging anything could be quite a sight."

You play at maximum settings? Troop-size that is? It sounds that way anyhow. Massed cavalry can be great! Sure looks nice doesn’t it? However, facing the “wrong” kind of enemy can be utter disaster as well, so always keep an eye out for what kind of forces you might be facing in battle and do adjust your armies accordingly. Otherwise you will probably loose or have horrendous losses at least. You know all that of course but I am just giving you a friendly reminder here (because this is especially true for redux).


”Does it pay of to build very high end units despite their much lower men count? Royal Spearmen (or something like that) come in a 53 men package…"

You must be referring to the “Palace Guards”, those guys are good! Probably among the best infantry you will ever get as the Russians! Don’t let that size fool you! Do a few battles with them and you will soon find out their mettle! As an over all rule the fewer they are, by default that is, the more dangerous they usually are. I thought that this piece of info might be interesting and useful for you… Hehe! Heroes and champions are good, but they are solo-units and that are the downside with them!

On the tactical side:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

“…the Byzantines are dead meat. Anyway, I think you already changed that.”

Yeah, I will look over that when I get the time, because as is, doesn’t cut it my book (thanks again Will for that discovery). It functions now, but it is barely acceptable. So, yes I will probably change that for something better. No ETA for that thou…


"…Saracens, mainly because their armies are mostly Saracen Spearmen and Camel Warriors,…"

Yeah I have noticed myself that the AI is pretty found that line up. Well, the infantry is not that bad so it can probably offer you a decent fight or two. My geuss is that you will have more difficulties with these guys (at least the way the redux-AI is currently configured). As for the camels, well they are camels and with some decent infantry they will become history very fast. I the Saracens manage to put up some of that excellent cavalry, then you should be more careful. Oh and don’t forget, if the Saracens got archer around, take ‘em out or you will probably have some serious damage in your ranks…


"Sorry, I know I already mentioned it, but I would do it again anyway. Is there any way to set a higher priority for ship construction for the AI? Now only England (1), Italy (2) and Spain (1) have boats on the water. No boats, no trade. No trade, no money. No money, no war machine."

Yeah, this is something that got me wonedering… I must say that your Intel here surprises me and I usually don’t have these kinds of problems myself. Italy, Lombardy and Byzantium usually are avid naval-powers when I play. France, Vikings/Norse and the Saracens usually build some smaller fleets as well. There usually are plenty of ships floating around when I play, so I don’t think that it is the AI-settings that are causing problems here for you. I suspect it rather to be something else, god knows what thou (I have to little info here to come up with any substantial suggestion as for why. My wild guess is lack of developed ports).

Your overall assumption in regards to trade is correct but even that is the case, the AI simply refuses to do anything rational when it comes to trade so even if there was lots of ships around the AI would not get as much florins as you do. This is hardcoded behaviour.

On the bug/fixable/suggestion side:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"I might be wrong, but I have not been able to find my Khazar governor anywhere. Maybe the title is lost? Maybe my eye sight is crap?"

Your eyes are crap! Sorry…


"What does the “ruin ….” Building really do? I suppose it is happiness, but it is not stated on the card description. It just says something about bridging together the real and spiritual worlds (ok, that was kind of a personal description)."

It is a “holy” stone or rune stone if you like. Compose a better description and forward it to me and I will consider it. That description was based on the “writing tradition” I found for similar things in VI. Essentially it is more of the same. It generates a small happiness bonus (+5%) and some faith propagation +2% I belive. It’s all in the “crusader_build_prod13.txt”.


"Russian hero does not have picture, but a number of question marks (maybe intended?)."

1 question mark if everything is correct… Never found the time and inspiration to do that one. Maybe that will change in a formal patch. We’ll see I guess…


"Ok, this one is going to be annoying, I know. I am a spoiled brat, I know. The thing is, I am one of those who followed Frogbeastegg’s bible and get a little bit lost when I do not know the stats of my units. Is there an easy way to create a chart like that? Please, remember I am a full blown ignorant."

Well, with spoiled brats I usually have only one solution, get to work with it! You have all my blessings to use the redux pics and the template is already set by the froglady. Now, its time for you (and perhaps other as well) to do the grand redux-delux guide for units, since froggies guide wont do you any good for redux. Get going! Still a brat? Hehe! I actually would like such a guide…

Now, I think you (and perhaps others) doing a Redux unit-guide is an excellent idea! What you’ll need is to download a GnomeEditor, once you got one of those you can open up the “crusaders_unit_prod11.txt” find out all about each and every unit in redux. Froglady have set the standard and it up to you the either follow that template or do something better. Actually, to get things into a more manageable size, why don’t you do a faction at a time (as in all available units for that faction). Either you do it in word or in some fancier program like InDesign, Illustrator or perhaps even photoshop. That is the least of your problems, the problem is the dreary work of writing it all down somewhere else than in the “crusaders_unit_prod11.txt”. That way you limit the project-size and your chances for completion is a lot bigger, as in you got a serious chance of actually see it thru to the end. Maybe you should even start a separate thread and see if there were any other people interested in such a project, and if there is perhaps you could recruit them for your cause. Your call of course.

If such a project happens and it does generate a result it got to be in Pdf, it is the best and most manageable and common file format for stuff like that. Finally, the only thing I can promise you is that I won’t do it; I got my hands full with other redux-stuff. Overall, I think the idea is brilliant and well worth doing and certainly worth investigating closer as in if there is any “demand” for it and stuff like that. It would be real cool if it happens.

Oki, Joh that was all I got for you this time, happy fighting!


- Cheers

[Joh]

@ everybody
Being the brat that I am, I like to know the stats of my units before sending them to combat, so I know what they are good for and against. Axalon, very wisely and cunningly, suggested ME doing some type of document about that. I could be willing to do that, depending on time availability.

First and foremost, I am a full blown ignorant when it comes to modding (or moding???) so I will need some help. According to Axalon, I should use some type of GnomeEditor to mesh with things. Problem is, I CANNOT FIND IT. And yes, I have been surfing a bit, both in the Guild and Google, but have not found anything that looks usable for my purpose.

So please, could anyone post a GnomeEditor download link or upload it to this thread?


@ William the Silent

Axalon I tried your new "tree" fix. Something must have gone wrong:

Do not ever do that again. Don't you realise I believe everything I read? You are a sick evil young man!

@ Hugalu

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• My infantry definitely looks normal ... that is, MTW normal, and not a single crash yet.
• Yes, the game becomes much easier as you progress in the campaign, mainly because you develop your economy and are able to afford many more things. The speed at which you progress is affected by several factors, in my case it was mainly decided by two rebellions of my heirs, which costed me tons of time since I lost a quarter of my provinces each time.
• However, I would expect that as your progress gets closer to the end date and you have expanded sufficiently, your trade network yields less revenue and financial situation becomes more tight, together with more unrest/rebellion levels. In any case, that is also applicable to the standard MTW.

@ Axalon and whoever might be interested
Ok, here we go. As, unlike many other threads, this ones does not allow short posts, here goes another long one . Sorry it is a little bit messy . Some general comments/answers/feelings based on my 125 years into Russian campaign, hard settings.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Comments/Corrections:

• When I say that one faction is very powerful, but the game says that the major power is another one, I mean it in a good way. That means that factions are building up.
• Byzantium is a gold mine. At full speed it is now producing 6.5k florins a turn and is by far my best province, with Novgorod delivering a steady 2.5-3k florins a turn. But as you mentioned, it is a nice price and the French have launch a crusade against it. In any case, Pope died and I retired my ships for a turn so there is no common border, and we are trading once again.
• Corsica and Ireland are still rebel, but both have a 4-stack powerful rebel army, which I really do not know how on earth they can afford. They have not launched any ship yet though. In any case, my navy is moving in to eventually deal with their evil intentions and trade disruption.
• WTF???? Maybe my Khazar governor is preparing a plot against me? Will check again, but the bastard is nowhere to be found. Tonight I will check under every stone, every tree, every leave if needed until I find the sucker!!!! Nobody messes with the Russian Royal Prince!!!!
• Hero, one, few, many questions marks? Are you that peaky? Ok, ok, I stand corrected . Palace Guards? Royal Spearmen? What is the difference? Don't you see I am referring to them? Ok, ok, I stand corrected again. Must admit my short term memory is bad, but my long term is even worse ... if possible.
• Regarding the rune, I was not complaining about the description, that is fine. It was just that I could not see the effects it brought. At some point, I though that it could spread pagan culture as some of my provinces have up to 10% pagan culture even though I have maximised religious building. Maybe is a side effect of your "rebellion/revolt" tweaking? Eventually I destroyed some of them and the orthodox culture seem to increased a bit (maybe due to other factors then???)

Explanations/Answers:

• I am not sure of my setting, but definitely not huge because many people have complain about path finding issues. It could be either default or large, not really sure.
• Ok, the lack of ships could be due to the difficulty settings, which in my case is hard, not expert. Will have to try with expert and see what happens .
• Regarding the Saracens, they have started building more versatile armies, with foot archers. The Moors are also doing a good job with both spears, cavalry, camels and archers. On a side note, I should say that the picture/card for the Moorish generals is possibly my favourite. I have not check the rest much, but now I will have to look into the Germans and English (my new targets???)

Suggestions:

• Regarding the player edge when it comes to trading, could there be some scripting giving the AI factions money to compensate for this disadvantage. Initially it should be a little amount, as the player is not really getting much from trade, then peaking in the mid-game and finally decreasing in the last stage of the game? Again, I do not know whether that is possible.
• Norse armies: Sweden became rebel and I seized it, which eventually meant war with the Norse. Now, they are no more and Scandinavia and Hamburg are now spelled in Cyrillic characters. In any case, if the Byzantine build missile heavy armies, the Norse build heavy infantry heavy armies. I had to fight stacks with 8+ bodygaurds on them. By the way, do not engage them with your infantry, do not charge at them with your cavalry, just nuke them with arrows. So, all-and-all, they become an easy prey. BTW, my respect for Slavic Bowmen is back again .

I could have a go at the stats document, but as I said above, I need to figure out, first where to get and then, how to use that Gnome thingy you talked about. Starting with each faction seems the way to go. And yes, you got it right, the first one will be the Russians ... or maybe not?

[Axalon]

Hi Joh, let me help you out here…

GnomeEditor available here:
http://www.atomicgamer.com/file.php?id=68503


There you go, the stuff is pretty self-explanatory. New row = new unit, new column = new aspect/category.

Just make sure you open up the right file! It is located in the redux installation as in ”Redux/Medieval - Total War”-folder. The file, you want to open up with the gnomeeditor is: “crusaders_unit_prod11.txt” (make a back up just to be safe). If it starts up with heathen –Xs in the first rows, then you got the right file. Have fun…

I’ll comment your stuff later on or edit them in here…


EDIT: Some remarks as well then...
---------------------------------------------------

Rune/holy stone… Well this little thing functions like this, depending on who builds it and especially what religion that faction has, will ultimately set what kind of “Faith Propogation” the stone will emit. If it is a pagan faction that builds it, it will emit paganism, EVEN if the province is under, let’s say Catholic faction. That way, a province, with such a stone, built under such circumstances will never become 100% pure Catholic until that stone is destroyed. This hardcoded and now you know… Hehe!

About your unit-setting… Your setting got to be large, maximum would probably be 150 or 160 units to a default 100 man unit. I always play default so my knowledge is rusty here (personally I prefer that setting above all the others).

Regarding ships… Maybe it varies from campaign to campaign. I don’t know, I have never had any problem with the lack of ships, if anything it is the opposite, too many ships floating around. Very strange. My guess is still the lack of possible and suitable ports.

Regarding the Saracens… Well once they got diverse armies you are probably in for much tougher fights, consider your easy wins with the Byzantines as a warm up, especially when you come to the desert. Fighting in the desert will undoubtedly be the most disadvantageous terrain you will ever fight in, just so you know. It will be very interesting to see what kind of reaction you have when you face an army - the way it is supposed to be. As for the Germans and English, both will most likely to prove themselves a lot tougher than the crippled Byzantines (I got to fix that!). Especially the HRE since they should have many specialized units available by now.

The trade problem… What you are suggesting in your latest post is not possible in an acceptable way. Meaning those changes could too easily be abused and certain factions would be totally off limits or the whole game would go to hell. Technically it could be possible to create a special and unique building that generated enormous amount of florins but I seriously doubt if that would help the game. And, it would be almost impossible to ensure that this X-building would not fall into the hands of the player at some point. Basically, it is not possible in an acceptable way as long as MTW remains hardcoded… I have already done what I deemed viable in the VI-version and that is more radical and drastic than have ever been done before in any other version for MTW (as far as I can tell at least).

Regarding Norse armies… This is covered by post: 49 & 50…


- Cheers
---------
If I missed anything, give me a friendly reminder and I will see what I can do for you.

[Hugalu]

No wonder I didn't see the message I posted yesterday. I really appreciate all the time/effort put into this mod. I just want to point out it does have a few areas that need improvement, as in all the mods are.

[Rick]

Hi guys and a special welcome to Rick, (this is a big one)

Rick: I bid you welcome to the redux corner, your post were short, but sweet! Feel free to lengthen it a bit next time, and I do hope we get at least another post from you! Have fun with redux! Oh, what are you playing and at what diff-setting?

Cheers guys!

I wimped out and I'm playing it the Normal level. I'll try and play it at a more difficult level the next time.

The game itself seems quite stable. When I play Pike and Musket I frequently have CTDs, but not with Redux or NTW.

Rick