My love of England, my window to racism

[Incongruous]

Recently I began to put rather uncomfortable questions to myself, I had decided that these thoughts could no longer be ignored. I am reading a book on English history and English cultural heritage, the idyllic vision of woodland and soft hills comes to my mind. So too does the image of London as it was before the bombings and the concrete fortresses which dominate her once lovely skyline, the dominance of the new the end of England. As I wish it. I find in this concept of England a fanciful escape, a coward's way of hiding from the modern world.

Then I remember what England really is, a place which is run by those with little respect for it's history and ancient culture. I apply to them the category of Lefty-Liberals, looking to get rich and stay in power by riding the globalist-liberal wave, what is that? Who are these people? It doesn't matter because I know they are there and I hate them.

I read on the BBC an article on what the Archbishop of Canterbury says, Sharia law in England, I seethe in anger I damn him for his lack of a backbone for being the modern conception of a man, spineless and without courage. My childhood was full of the tales of men seen as heroes, by some, surely I think they would detest and destroy men like Dr. Williams?
Then I turn my attention to THEM...
Those Muslims, always trying to impress their foreign values on US, they have no respect of understanding of my nations ancient past. It is a thought which has, like a cancer, grown ever so slowly in my mind. I have been unable, or unwilling, to kill it. I begin to look for them in books and media, I want to get angry, I want to find reasons to hate them. I read and hear words like discrimination and I burn at the accusation that England must accommodate, why? Why are they here, I think, if they do not want to be like us?
I read another article in the BBC, the BBC is still hideously white, says some British-African Lord. That cancer suddenly gets bigger, it spreads to encompass THOSE PEOPLE. Why should the BBC become darker? England is English is it not? What is wrong with the BBC having white people read the news?
Again I go looking for trouble, I read the comments of immigrant peoples, I find in them things repulsive to me, why do they fill discriminated against? Why do they dress like that? Why do they not consider themselves English? Why are they here?

The thoughts have become more frequent, I begin to feel tragic, England is gone, St George is nothing, Hengist and Horsa, who are they. I need someone to blame, THEM.

I have asked myself what are these thoughts? Why am I thinking them? I never used to, the idea of England no longer being as it was as it should be has never worried me before.
I have, I believe become a closet racist, I hate racists though, don't I? Or perhaps I don't, perhaps when I have seen them, heard them, talked to them my thoughts of abhorrence and anger were masking something else. Understanding? Sympathy?

Is this a product of my love of England and it's history? How can modern developments not anger others like they do me without them finding they have become closet racists, or bigots?

I believe that, this phenomenon may be more common than I had thought, that everyone is hiding something behind their talk of multiculturalism and acceptance. I know that there are others out there who openly embrace this cancerous growth within the mind, but I do not want to.
So I have laid myself open to your thoughts, because I believe that some of you may be able to rid me of this.

I fully accept that some of you may now hold me in contempt and I do not blame you for it. But I believe this is a problem which is effecting a great many countries and it needs airing.

[Banquo's Ghost]

To a greater or lesser extent, we all have racist tendencies. Exploring the irrationality of them is a good step, if you are willing to listen to other views.

I think your first consideration is your choice of reading matter. If you think that England was ever like that country you characterise in your post, then you haven't read widely enough.

The next point to consider is that racism breeds in the stagnant pools of generalisation. Use labels for groups of people long enough and they become faceless. Generalised statements can be useful as a shorthand, but realising that is the limit of their use in human relations is important.

Proclamation ex tea-towel: I'm going to allow this thread to develop because I believe Bopa is genuinely trying to explore an issue. The usual rules on personal attacks and outright racism apply.

Thank you kindly.

[Tribesman]

I think your first consideration is your choice of reading matter. If you think that England was ever like that country you characterise in your post, then you haven't read widely enough.

There isn't really much anyone can add to that .

Though just for the fun of it ......

I read on the BBC an article on what the Archbishop of Canterbury says, Sharia law in England, I seethe in anger I damn him for his lack of a backbone for being the modern conception of a man, spineless and without courage. My childhood was full of the tales of men seen as heroes, by some, surely I think they would detest and destroy men like Dr. Williams?

Is that a good example of lack of reading and comprehnsion , unless of course you can tell me what was wrong with the archbishops speech and how it is against the historical tradition of Britian ...apart from if you want to view Britains great tradition as things like the penal laws on religeon and class them as positive aspects of its culture rather than a very dirty great stain on it .

But when we get to this ...

Then I turn my attention to THEM...

...well I could go on about how you could use some Oswald speeches about his THEM and apply them to your post but that might be construed as a Godwin , so far better to go back into Britains glorious cultural monoethnic history and ask you about the earlier Queen Elizabeth and her views on all them nasty dark skinned people who were taking over her green and pleasant land where an englishwomans home really was her castle .

Ah my love of tolerant England ....No dogs No Blacks No Irish .... how things change eh

[LittleGrizzly]

I would call the comment on the archbishop nothing you can use to view our land as being taken over by 'them'.

to clarify williams was supporting the use of sharia law in the case of a dispute between muslims and only if both the parties requested it, my understanding was even then it would have to work within the confines of british law, so seen as it is something that only affects muslims, and only those who wish it to effect them then i really see no negative effects...

Those Muslims, always trying to impress their foreign values on US, they have no respect of understanding of my nations ancient past.

Almost everyone tries to impose thier values on everyone else (even if thier value is freedom of values ironically enough) The muslims aren't the only religion with extreme views, check out the "immodest woman" thread, about the actions of extreme jews and navaros views in the thread are a bit different from the norm, all these people try and impose thier values in a similar way to extremist mulsims, thier usually fairly similar views as well, but it doesn't stop there, as i said everyone to a point does it, whether its atheists trying to keep god out of science class or whatever...

Also your almost enforcing your own value set in your past, a value set you imagine of a past britian where things where done properly, to me a young briton your sets of values may be old and ineffective for the modern world, your value system (from your op at least) seems to indicate dislike of change and nostalgia for the way it is, or nostalgia for the way it seemed to be

[Incongruous]

What I wrote was an attempt to captivate the nature of this issue I have, its reactionary and unthinking nature. I can identify these yet Such thought patterns still continue to dominate my minds at some moments.

I did state that my visions of England in such moments were idyllic and a product of my overbearing need for escapism. It's like, I hate the idea of an enforced class system, a non-democratic government, constant violence and the lack of flushing toilets. But why should that stand in the way of my beloved England? That is the kind of reasoning I go through sometimes, it's scary because it completely overtakes me, I can't seem to help it.

[Tribesman]

What I wrote was an attempt to captivate the nature of this issue I have, its reactionary and unthinking nature. I can identify these yet Such thought patterns still continue to dominate my minds at some moments.

Thats the human mind for ya , flawed .
You have the normal conflict between the concious and subconscious mind .
You work it so the conscious mind thinks over the subconcious .
Some don't , they have the constant bombardment of for example "its the Muslims" and it takes hold even though rational thought shows it to be nonsense .
For an example , how do you feel about people with ginger hair ?
What are the reasons for it ?
Well they is ginger ain't they ginger people are ..errrr...well they are ginger , look at that Chris Evans , a perfect example of how annoying them gingers are , if they had their way thay would takeover the whole media circus , something really has tobe done about them gingers because ...well because they are ginger .

[LittleGrizzly]

For an example , how do you feel about people with ginger hair ?

The spice girls are a good example here...

Ginger people make crap music
sporty people make crap music
black people make crap music
snobs, rich or posh people make crap music
baby faced people make crap music

or generalisations are crap.....

[PanzerJaeger]

Embrace your feelings and be true to yourself. Don't let anyone else shame you.

[Tribesman]

Embrace your feelings and be true to yourself. Don't let anyone else shame you.

A translation of that in this perpective is ..... don't think .

[Rhyfelwyr]

For an example , how do you feel about people with ginger hair ?
What are the reasons for it ?
Well they is ginger ain't they ginger people are ..errrr...well they are ginger , look at that Chris Evans , a perfect example of how annoying them gingers are , if they had their way thay would takeover the whole media circus , something really has tobe done about them gingers because ...well because they are ginger .

[CountArach]

Is this a product of my love of England and it's history? How can modern developments not anger others like they do me without them finding they have become closet racists, or bigots?

Because they are more willing to adapt to the changing conditions than you are, from what I can see. You seem to have the image of a Victorian-era England that was largely idealised by the British themselves. Seeking to get back to this is bound to occur in some people, such as yourself, though often these people are Reactionaries rather than simply conservative. If you are unwilling to change and accept what your country has become, then of course you are going to be like this. Seeking someone to blame (You mention numerous peoples in your post, including - rather bizarrely - the left-wing of politics - though NewLab is not in fact left-wing.) is going to happen and what better target than the very people causing you to feel this way? Its just a downward spiral.

So the obvious answer to what you should do if you don't want to be a racist - accept that this change is inevitable and your idea of your country is greatly outdated.

[Viking]

I did state that my visions of England in such moments were idyllic and a product of my overbearing need for escapism. It's like, I hate the idea of an enforced class system, a non-democratic government, constant violence and the lack of flushing toilets. But why should that stand in the way of my beloved England? That is the kind of reasoning I go through sometimes, it's scary because it completely overtakes me, I can't seem to help it.

A country is much of an illusion. They've always been made up of people with quite different thoughts of how it should work. The association that the name of a country gives, is a romanticised version of it that does not exist in reality. A country is an idea more than anything else.

Furthermore, the past was not static. The idea of what's England has changed, as with any country, a lot through up years...Once there was no England at all; it is not older than; say, 1100 years or there about. Yet the geography has always been there.

A few points to consider, perhaps..

[Ignoramus]

I fully sympathise with Bopa. While I'm Australian, I have a great love of England and it's history and culture. It's being destroyed through the mushed up multiculturalism. Sure, celebrate where you come from, but learn that when in England, do as the English do, or at least what England was 50 years ago.

[Adrian II]

I feel much the same as Bopa, with this difference that I loathe many of my fellow Dutchmen as much as I loathe 'them'. I feel cheated by modernity, by its irreverent, hysterical and totally unnecessary pace of change. Let me give some examples. I feel that parts of my personal history were 'stolen' from me because most of the buildings that surround me are younger than myself. I loathe the unrestrained market economy of today that destroys values and meaningful places in society such as post offices and pubs, old-fashioned day markets, small shops, public transport etcetera. I loathe the insane haste and so-called flexibility of today that reduces people to trained rabbits performing tricks for anonymous corporations in exchange for carrots. I loathe today's 'victim' culture where values are derived from real or imagined wrongs, suffering and death instead of from healthy criteria like quality and capability, intelligence, honesty and courage.

And I realise that many of 'them' suffer as much from these modern phenomena as I myself do. Some of the reasons why 'they' don't accept 'our' way of life are very sound, even if their alternatives are not always palatable. To name an example: I recall some fine meals in very basic restaurants in remote parts of the world where the toilets were of the non-flushing type Bopa mentioned and therefore usually unspeakable dirty, yet the food, the hospitality, friendship and general atmosphere were far, far preferable to those in squeaky clean Holland.

I am not set in my views like Bopa seems to be. I am torn by these developments and I hope they don't consume me, in the sense that I will be the last man on earth who appreciates books. Or a lazy day off doing nothing, just nothing at all, because I am human and can afford to live on the surplus created by my society and not be productive for a day.

[HoreTore]

I welcome any and all foreign cultures who wants to replace our own. God knows that no matter what happens, it cannot be worse than the norwegian culture...

[Andres]

I feel cheated by modernity, by its irreverent, hysterical and totally unnecessary pace of change. Let me give some examples. I feel that parts of my personal history were 'stolen' from me because most of the buildings that surround me are younger than myself. I loathe the unrestrained market economy of today that destroys values and meaningful places in society such as post offices and pubs, old-fashioned day markets, small shops, public transport etcetera. I loathe the insane haste and so-called flexibility of today that reduces people to trained rabbits performing tricks for anonymous corporations in exchange for carrots. I loathe today's 'victim' culture where values are derived from real or imagined wrongs, suffering and death instead of from healthy criteria like quality and capability, intelligence, honesty and courage.

It's scary to see somebody else posting exactly how I feel about our modern day society.

[JR-]

what i need is a word that describes a specific form of xenophobia that applies only to that breed of johnny foreigner that expects to set up shop in blighty and yet insists on maintaining cultural baggage incompatible with that of the 'natives'.

i have no problem with albanians* being albanian in albania, but when they decide to settle in britain i expect them to do their best to conform to british cultural norms where their own would appear to be greatly at odds with ours.

for example:
honour killings
burning alive the widow of a deceased husband (not saying its ever happened in britain)
female genital mutilation
death for apostacy

what i particularly take issue with is immigrants abusing british citizenship by way facilitating criminal enterprise, e.g. albanian mafia who run smuggle people/guns/drugs into britain from their benighted homeland, not only should they face criminal sanction but revocation of citizenship. likewise there should be a year long period of grace for an applicant of british citizenship whereby any un-provoked criminal offence should lead to deportation.

what really doesn't bother me is the colour of someones skin, we have been importing johnny foreigner into blighty (a hindi word for "foreign lands" used in reference to britain) for countless generations, and the vast majority have become british, some even more so than the british themselves.
hooray for them i say, i will happily be your neighbour.

the legitimate problem people have with immigration stems from two things:
1) multi-culti claptrap - not expecting people to become british, just an albanian in a foreign land.
2) uncontrolled immigration - resulting in those unreconstructed albanians forming albanian enclaves within british communities.

A typical friday night for me will include fifteen or so friends, two of whom are polish, four are finnish, and one is french, (on the fringe or this group is another french, two spanish, a german, a greek, some more poles, and a hungarian), and you know what i like it this way, keeps life interesting to be constantly surrounded by viewpoints informed by different social/cultural backgrounds. Having said that not one of them is a gun-running mafioso, nor too do they believe in the value of honour killings, so i am a happy bunny.

Ditch multi-culti rubbish and actually control immigration and we will all be happy, yes even the poor council-estate white families that feel compelled to vote BNP because no-one else will listen to their problems.

* the use of albanians in the following example is chosen randomly and completely interchangeable with some other nation

[CountArach]

the legitimate problem people have with immigration stems from two things:
1) multi-culti claptrap - not expecting people to become british, just an albanians in a foreign land.

Why is that so unreasonable?

[Viking]

I feel much the same as Bopa, with this difference that I loathe many of my fellow Dutchmen as much as I loathe 'them'. I feel cheated by modernity, by its irreverent, hysterical and totally unnecessary pace of change. Let me give some examples. I feel that parts of my personal history were 'stolen' from me because most of the buildings that surround me are younger than myself. I loathe the unrestrained market economy of today that destroys values and meaningful places in society such as post offices and pubs, old-fashioned day markets, small shops, public transport etcetera. I loathe the insane haste and so-called flexibility of today that reduces people to trained rabbits performing tricks for anonymous corporations in exchange for carrots. I loathe today's 'victim' culture where values are derived from real or imagined wrongs, suffering and death instead of from healthy criteria like quality and capability, intelligence, honesty and courage.

And I realise that many of 'them' suffer as much from these modern phenomena as I myself do. Some of the reasons why 'they' don't accept 'our' way of life are very sound, even if their alternatives are not always palatable. To name an example: I recall some fine meals in very basic restaurants in remote parts of the world where the toilets were of the non-flushing type Bopa mentioned and therefore usually unspeakable dirty, yet the food, the hospitality, friendship and general atmosphere were far, far preferable to those in squeaky clean Holland.

I am not set in my views like Bopa seems to be. I am torn by these developments and I hope they don't consume me, in the sense that I will be the last man on earth who appreciates books. Or a lazy day off doing nothing, just nothing at all, because I am human and can afford to live on the surplus created by my society and not be productive for a day.

I wonder if the inhabitants of the first civilisations ever expressed similiar views.

"It's too crowded"

[JR-]

because honour killings etc are not acceptable in britain.

"do their best to conform to british cultural norms where their own would appear to be greatly at odds with ours."

[PBI]

Immigrants are required to obey the law. I've yet to see or hear anyone suggesting that honour killings should be made legal.

Assuming immigrants do obey the law however, what's so wrong with "live and let live"?

[Husar]

Thats the human mind for ya , flawed .
You have the normal conflict between the concious and subconscious mind .
You work it so the conscious mind thinks over the subconcious .
Some don't , they have the constant bombardment of for example "its the Muslims" and it takes hold even though rational thought shows it to be nonsense .
For an example , how do you feel about people with ginger hair ?
What are the reasons for it ?
Well they is ginger ain't they ginger people are ..errrr...well they are ginger , look at that Chris Evans , a perfect example of how annoying them gingers are , if they had their way thay would takeover the whole media circus , something really has tobe done about them gingers because ...well because they are ginger .

I have these conflicts very often, you explain them very well.

[Banquo's Ghost]

... i expect them to do their best to conform to british cultural norms where their own would appear to be greatly at odds with ours.

for example:
honour killings
burning alive the widow of a deceased husband (not saying its ever happened in britain)
female genital mutilation
death for apostacy

what i particularly t.....

What about wilful refusal to capitalise the noble English language correctly and in line with established tradition?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Isn't Grumpy-Old-Man Syndrome fun?

[Tribesman]

I have these conflicts very often, you explain them very well.

Yes but I do believe that there is a certain scotsman here who didn't like the example .
I suppose that despite being a scotsman in scotland where there are lots of gingers he still has to put up with the irrational anti ginger prejudice .

[KukriKhan]

To give an american (albeit, personal) perspective: over here we ask for immigration. The various nationalities who arrive on our shores usually encounter culture-shock, as do we already-arrived ones; eventually, everyone more or less gets along, and what it means to be "american" changes slightly along the way. Despite initial resistance, the 'melting pot' theory does actually work.

But that's us. And racial/cultural prejudice is easily documentable over here - so I'm not saying it's all hunky-dory perfect. Just that, in the long run, it works. For us.

But, for you guys elsewhere, whose nations weren't founded on immigrant-acceptance: why give up a desire for Dutch to remain Dutch, Irish to remain Irish, German to remain German, Chinese to remain Chinese. You don't have to imitate the american experiment, and trying to do so, given your different history and culture, might 'kill' your unique German-ness, English-ness, Belgian-ness, Ethiopian-ness. Why is that necessary?

I see no problem with insisting that immigrants to your lands assimilate to the prevailing culture.

[HoreTore]

I see no problem with insisting that immigrants to your lands assimilate to the prevailing culture.

Because if we decided a thousand years ago that we should lock ourselves up and never let our culture change, we wouldn't have the culture we have now...

[JR-]

Immigrants are required to obey the law. I've yet to see or hear anyone suggesting that honour killings should be made legal.

Assuming immigrants do obey the law however, what's so wrong with "live and let live"?

nothing to me, but i am affluent middle-class and don't live in an inner city.

you might want to ask the white inner-city working-class why they feel they have no option but to vote BNP when generations of habituated family instinct is for them to vote labour.

[JR-]

What about wilful refusal to capitalise the noble English language correctly and in line with established tradition?

[Devastatin Dave]

LOL, we need a "White Guilt" thread where we can put all these "I feel guilty because I'm unconfortable with the way my society is being destrowed by invaders who want me to become them or I will definitely suffer or be branded rasist" threads so that Tribes and the like can belittle the true feeling of people. Jesus Christ, this is nothing to feel shame about. A country is defined by its langauge, borders, and culture. When you have a bunch of weak-kneed, one world girly men or butch lesbos running your part of the world, expect your extinction and expect your children to suffer after you because no one took the time in their time in history to run their hands up their inner thigh and find their rasin sack to do anything. We're d for sure, what a pathetic geration!!! Churchill is spinning.

[JR-]

To give an american (albeit, personal) perspective: over here we ask for immigration. The various nationalities who arrive on our shores usually encounter culture-shock, as do we already-arrived ones; eventually, everyone more or less gets along, and what it means to be "american" changes slightly along the way. Despite initial resistance, the 'melting pot' theory does actually work.

But that's us. And racial/cultural prejudice is easily documentable over here - so I'm not saying it's all hunky-dory perfect. Just that, in the long run, it works. For us.

But, for you guys elsewhere, whose nations weren't founded on immigrant-acceptance: why give up a desire for Dutch to remain Dutch, Irish to remain Irish, German to remain German, Chinese to remain Chinese. You don't have to imitate the american experiment, and trying to do so, given your different history and culture, might 'kill' your unique German-ness, English-ness, Belgian-ness, Ethiopian-ness. Why is that necessary?

I see no problem with insisting that immigrants to your lands assimilate to the prevailing culture.

america does have the benefit of a population density at least an order or magnitude less than britain. outlooks really do change when you live in each others pockets, as evidenced by japanese dislike of the google spy-cars roaming japan, they are simply viewed as inappropriately intrusive.