Poll: Should the Augustan Reforms be removed?

[Remco]

Should the Augustan Reforms be removed?

[Zett]

i think they are more or less useless, cause the Marian Reforms give you everything, what you need for a great empire, the praetorian units are only recruitable in rome and at the time you get the Augustan Reforms your empire is so big that the transport of the praetorian units would take you several seasons till you get them to the outer regions of your empire. in my opinion these slots should used for some other units, pherhaps some new units for KH, like special hoplites for athenai or something like that

[CountArach]

No they should not be removed. If my Consul overthrows the Republic and becomes Emperor I want him to be able to push the Marian reforms through that necessary stage to further professionalise and Centralise the army. They are necessary in order for me to do that.

[Quilts]

Yes, they should be removed. Any decent Senator with a mind to the Republic would do his utmost to avoid that much power falling into the hands of one person.

The selfishly motivated civil war/s that led to such desperate measures being necessary may not have occured had 'good men done something' when it was needed ie- about the time they were forming the first triumvirate.....maybe.....

Cheers,

Quilts

[eddy_purpus]

i think they are more or less useless, cause the Marian Reforms give you everything, what you need for a great empire, the praetorian units are only recruitable in rome and at the time you get the Augustan Reforms your empire is so big that the transport of the praetorian units would take you several seasons till you get them to the outer regions of your empire. in my opinion these slots should used for some other units, pherhaps some new units for KH, like special hoplites for athenai or something like that

i agree with ur post put not all units should go to KH .
some to other new factions ...
lets wait for the new factions to come and then decide.

[delra]

Out with them.

[Flying Pig]

At least, if no new units, make a governmental reform with the imperator trait, and amici imperatore, Caesares, Augusti and all thee other post-imerial jobs

[||Lz3||]

maybe if the time restriction is taken out it will be easier to atain them ... cause many of us have gotten perfect candidates for augustans but we are missing several -a lot - of years to get them and before it's time, our augustus is dead <.<

[QuintusSertorius]

Yes, when the only difference between Marian and Imperial legionaries are the skins used, it's a waste of slots.

Besides it's pretty rare anyone actually gets to them legitimately, without modding stuff to make it so.

IMO the game shouldn't run as late as 14AD anyway...

[Mediolanicus]

It would be a shame to see them go, but their unit slots will be used up by units that will have more uses than just "being in the game"...

It is fun to have them but really not worth using up limited space that can be put to better use.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

Well, in a perfect world, we could have unlimited unit slots, but, alas, you can't have it all!

So I think they could be sacrificed.

[Megas Methuselah]

The unit slots could be used for a much better purpose than to further promote a single faction which has already received more than enough attention. Besides, you don't necessarily need new skins for the Augustan Reforms.

At least, if no new units, make a governmental reform with the imperator trait, and amici imperatore, Caesares, Augusti and all thee other post-imerial jobs

[Remco]

It seems that most people want the Imperial Reforms removed in favor of other factions. Is there an official opinion from the EB Team or is it to early to tell?

[konny]

All Roman reforms are under inspection and will see this or that changes. A final decision on the Imperial Reforms has not been made so far but the topic is already on the table. It is obvious that the Marian-Imperial pool might be candidat to cut out units if free slots would be needed, but we are still to early in the process of creating units to say anything in that direction. Each unit had do be done new from scratch and making units for M2TW takes way longer than it does for RTW.

[Reno Melitensis]

No they should not be removed. They form part of EB's historical background, even if few people generally play long enough to trigger these reforms. In my current campaign, thats my main goal, but it is a long long way, its 184 BCE.

Cheers.

[Atraphoenix]

if EB team really claim that they are following historical accuracy no they should not be....
but the reforms may be easier to get for example holding 45 province may trigger Marian reforms while holding 80 or 90 provinces directly opens the way of augustan reforms.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Honestly, the game gets unhistorical by 200 B.C. so I figure the game should just be cut to 27 B.C. and the imperial reforms and units removed. Its dissapointing to hear that some units could not be added due to unit limit and here is the "imperial units" which were only historically used for the last 31 years of the game. So basically, make the end 27 B.C. get rid of the imperial units and i am sure everyone will enjoy the units that fill those spots, whatever faction they may be.

Also, for the imperiator trait, could that be part of the victory requirements? Like "have all these settlements, and a faction leader with imperiator"?

[General Appo]

No, some people don´t want an Imperator. Or at least, the choice not go get one exists right now, I don´t see why we should remove it.

[a completely inoffensive name]

No, some people don´t want an Imperator. Or at least, the choice not go get one exists right now, I don´t see why we should remove it.

Wait I am confused at what you are trying to say in your second sentence. I am just saying that because the majority seem to want the imperial reforms and units gone, we might as well make the imperator trait a victory condition or its basically pointless as there wont be any transition to empire in the first place.

[General Appo]

Well, the option to keep a republic should be left, I believe. But maybe you´d have to meet certain conditions to keep the republic as well, a certain amount of stability or something. I don´t know, sounds very difficult to accurately represent.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well, the option to keep a republic should be left, I believe. But maybe you´d have to meet certain conditions to keep the republic as well, a certain amount of stability or something. I don´t know, sounds very difficult to accurately represent.

Well we could just make the E.B. timeline entirely during the Republic's time. If we are getting rid of the reforms and units, we should just get rid of the imperator trait as well and make the end time 27 B.C. so there is no transition to empire period. Theres not a difference between how you control Romani if its a republic or empire, so lets just cut out the entire empire part.

[General Appo]

Well, unless it´s a really big work with scripts and all I don´t see why. It´s not like the transition to Empire occupies any limited slots, so why not keep it as a nice little bonus for Romani players making it that far, now that we´re (possibly) removing the biggest bonus for making it there.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well, unless it´s a really big work with scripts and all I don´t see why. It´s not like the transition to Empire occupies any limited slots, so why not keep it as a nice little bonus for Romani players making it that far, now that we´re (possibly) removing the biggest bonus for making it there.

But my point is why should we keep the empire transition if we are going to take out the units? Its kind of pointless to transition to the empire if there are no empire units.

[General Appo]

But it´s a nice feature that doesn´t really detract from anything. If it doesn´t get in the way for anything else, is considered historically accurate and is indeed optional, then why the hell wouldn´t we have it?

[Gaivs]

IMO the camillan ones should be removed also.

[QuintusSertorius]

IMO the camillan ones should be removed also.

Not so sure about that. It's arguable that they might have still been around at the start of the game, and getting the Polybian reforms is something to work towards. Balance-wise, that would make the Romani game even easier than it already is.

[DeathEmperor]

I share Quintus' feelings regarding the Camillan era units. Using them for a good 30 years before the Polybian reforms gives you a 'feel' for the Roman way of war, and it's all the more satisfying when you reach the Polybian reforms and see how your army has evolved.

As for the Imperial units, in my 2+ years playing EB I've never once reached them. Maybe that's a weakness on my part, but I just never felt the drive to play so long to get new units that I'd be able to use for a short period of time (compared to other reform units) and with how the ai progresses there'd probably only 3 or 4 factions I could use them against.

[CountArach]

IMO the camillan ones should be removed also.

Definitely not. Everything was vastly different before the Polybian reforms and it is utterly necessary to show this.

[Aemilius Paulus]

If removing the Augustan reforms will give the Romans more new units, then I agree. The Romans may have tons of units, but I am in the opinion that During the Polybian and especially Marian eras there is simply not enough unit variety. I really hope EB II will give the Romans more units. During the Marian and Polybian era, the only missile unit are the Velites. Now I know the Romans did not think highly of missiles, but there is got to be a missile unit (slingers or archers) out there there that you could give to the Romans for a bit of game balance.

[Strategos Alexandros]

The Romans currently have more units than any other faction, and if you need archers/slingers there are always plenty of auxiliaries, so if the Imperial reforms were taken out (which IMHO they should be) the slots should be given to the ten new factions.