About time someone stands up to Scientologists

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Scientology always been a joke. I can't understand why people do it....

[Tribesman]

and she was dumb enough to sign up and keep giving cash? I didnt know the French took cases based on stupitidy

Most fraud cases are based on stupidity .

[Ice]

I'm going to agree with strike here.

[TB666]

and she was dumb enough to sign up and keep giving cash? I didnt know the French took cases based on stupitidy

So ??
The law protects all, even those that are stupid.

[Rhyfelwyr]

and she was dumb enough to sign up and keep giving cash? I didnt know the French took cases based on stupitidy

Religons have been doing this for years. Bigotry Bigotry Bigotry

You can't seriously compare Scientology to the more traditional religions. The closest thing that I can think of in Christianity to the money-grabbing methods of Scientology were the indulgences which the Roman Catholic church encouraged. But Christianity had the Reformation and solved this problem. Maybe that's just what Scientology needs!

[PBI]

So we have

Lady vounltary signs up for what she believes will give her peace of mind
Lady gives money
Lady feels no spiritual connection with anything
Lady sues

If this were a normal religion it would be thrown out but since its something like Scientology its a valid case...give me a break. Most of these people qualify for Darwin awards and now when its convenient we say they are duped? There have been threads her before were followers of this religion have been called some not so nice names for being blind and stupid.

You could equally well argue, that the Scientologists sold this woman a product and the product didn't do as advertised. Surely in that case she's entirely within her rights to sue them over it?

Much as I love a good rant on the evils of religion in general and Scientology in particular, seems to me the religious connection is actually quite incidental. Seems like a simple case of false advertising; it's much like the law that was recently passed here in the UK requiring fortune tellers, mediums and the like to describe themselves as "entertainers" rather than claiming to actual be able to predict the future or contact dead people.

[Fragony]

Scientology always been a joke. I can't understand why people do it....

It's about as silly as believing that men is responsible for climate change

HAIL GLOBAL WARMING

[Sigurd]

You can't seriously compare Scientology to the more traditional religions. The closest thing that I can think of in Christianity to the money-grabbing methods of Scientology were the indulgences which the Roman Catholic church encouraged. But Christianity had the Reformation and solved this problem. Maybe that's just what Scientology needs!

Actually as I mentioned earlier, the early church was quite the money grabber and the punishment for holding on to some of the money was harsh.
Let me present two pieces from the New Testament:

Acts 2:44-45

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 5:1-11

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

[InsaneApache]

Sounds like old Pete did a bit of smiting.

[Ronin]

Actually as I mentioned earlier, the early church was quite the money grabber and the punishment for holding on to some of the money was harsh.
Let me present two pieces from the New Testament:

Acts 2:44-45

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 5:1-11

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

God is a Communist!!!!

how the worm turns....

[Husar]

Eh, no, I read it up and noticed a few things, the first passage you quoted, Sigurd, says theysold their stuff on their own will and gave money to the poor, nothing says that the church got any money or even demanded that.

The second passage is about how that guy pretended to give a whole lot of money to god but actually gave less than he wanted the others to think and in my bible he just drops dead so god killed him, just like his wife. In your quote it sounds like the men killed him and god made his wife drop dead which seems a bit weird because a) that would mean god directly punished his wife but not him and b) that would mean the new testament would advertise murder/say murder is okay when the church does it but I'm pretty sure that can't be it and my bible(in german) has it a bit different anyway unless I completely misunderstood that ancient english you posted there.

[InsaneApache]

Sounds like old Jahwah did a bit of smiting.

[Sigurd]

Eh, no, I read it up and noticed a few things, the first passage you quoted, Sigurd, says they sold their stuff on their own will and gave money to the poor, nothing says that the church got any money or even demanded that.

Hi Hus,

I am sorry to say that I am right on this one. I have studied it a little and the early Christians did live in small communities where they did not have possessions. The faithful sold everything and gave it to the church who then redistributed it where there was need.
Another passage from Acts (4:32)

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

This is not something new in the Judea/Christian tradition . The inhabitants of Zion (the city of Enoch) lived like this for 365 years and were rewarded by being taken up to heaven. The religious group of Essenes also lived like this. I believe there are strong ties between the Essenes and the early Christians and have pointed out this several times. Pindar had strong arguments against this tie and I couldn't find convincing enough arguments to sway him.

The verse in Acts chapter 2 do not specifically say poor. And this is strange if they indeed gave the money to the poor. Luke who wrote Acts, repeatedly refer to the poor as the poor (see the rich young man who was told to sell his possessions and give it to the poor and Zacchaeus who gave his voluntarily).
the Bible quotes are from the King James version.

The second passage is about how that guy pretended to give a whole lot of money to god but actually gave less than he wanted the others to think and in my bible he just drops dead so god killed him, just like his wife. In your quote it sounds like the men killed him and god made his wife drop dead which seems a bit weird because a) that would mean god directly punished his wife but not him and b) that would mean the new testament would advertise murder/say murder is okay when the church does it but I'm pretty sure that can't be it and my bible(in german) has it a bit different anyway unless I completely misunderstood that ancient english you posted there.

The Church at this stage had all things in common and lived in a close community. Faithful members were ordered to sell their land and properties and give it to the church. The church then redistributed the wealth to its members, all according to their needs. i.e when they needed something they got it from the church. There were no poor among them like with the Essenes and the citizens of Zion.

Ananias and his wife sold their property (i.e land) and gave it to the church (note the laid it at the apostles' feet wording). But they withheld some of the money and were punished by death. In the text it alludes to an act of God just as those who touched the holy ark at Moses' time. They just gave up the Ghost and was dead before hitting the ground. Why such harsh penalty for just keeping something that was originally theirs? Apparently this was an important rule in the early church which did not punish harlots or tax men.
Also note Luke's comments on the fear that washed over the church members. Maybe they were just making an example of Ananias and his wife to get the others to pay all their money?
I doubt any other tried this with Peter and the Apostles again.

[Husar]

You're not saying that Peter and the apostles killed them and then said god did it, are you?
Because that is the atheist view and as a true agnostic you should be open to the fact that god actually did it and supported the actions of the apostles and punished the two for their sins and because god is good and all his decisions are just you cannot really make a case against christianity out of this unless you want to oppose god and be a sinner and that disqualifies your opinion anyway.

Also the fact that they had all things in common and got what they needed is what seperates them from the likes of Scientology where you just give and receive a load of hot air until your life is completely ruined.