Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops

[Tribesman]

Also, Muslims turn radical because of their comrades, not us.

Yes the nutters do it all by themselves , they would never rant about how they shed blood fighting the communists for America and were then abandoned , neither would they rant about America supporting corrupt and murderous dictatorships in their countries , they certainly wouldn't get pissed if someone bombed the hell out of their countries over a pile of obvious lies and they most definately wouldn't become radical over someone who preaches about freedom democracy and justice kidnapping and torturing people then detaining them for years on the basis of the whims of a half wit president .
You are right as usual Warman ,the people are radicalised by nothing at all that the west does .

Last time I checked, we been doing most of the work, since Europe can't do anything....

If the work is counter productive then it would be best if you didn't bother . Just about every single thing the US military planners said not to do in Afghanistan unless you want to turn it into a waste of time the administration has gone ahead and done .
You have an absolute bunch of muppets calling the shots and while I understand that your military is sort of obliged to follow its comander in chief I can't believe so many european nations bothered making any contribution at all .
When their initial offers after 9/11 were turned down because America thought it could do Afghanistan by itself they should never have stepped in when America made a complete balls of it in a very short time .

[ICantSpellDawg]

When their initial offers after 9/11 were turned down because America thought it could do Afghanistan by itself they should never have stepped in when America made a complete balls of it in a very short time .

That's why the Irish aren't a part of NATO. You're entitled to your own opinion, but it isn't shared by the rest of your responsible European brothers and sisters. The Irish have become a bunch of security freeloaders - what happened? I used to be so proud of my ancestral homeland.

Freeloaded off of the European Economic Community and now you are successful - Congratulations! and may everyone else burn.

And then , to add insult to injury - you're toys are crappy and few so you have to step on our toys(or these) and make fun.

I'm glad that we have Banquo on these forums. If Ireland was left with you as it's ambassador this forum might think it was somewhere in between Venezuela and Cuba.

[Samurai Waki]

It seems that so many people base opinion from emotion, fear, or ignorance. So many decisions are made without paying heed to those consequences which can be formed because of the opinion. I dislike this war just as much as everyone else does, I think anger and fear drove the US into making some pretty tough moral decisions, which put and has continued to put thousands (if not millions of lives now) in jeopardy. However, the US like any sovereign (democratic) nation has that right, and it has the obligation to support and defend the masses both internally and externally using whatever means it deems necessary.

Sweden may have its own problems some day, and it will need to respond. And there leadership will make mistakes, and there will be people wondering why not just nuke them? I know historically speaking, more than one nation if it had access to nuclear weapons would've done just that.

The Same goes for Ireland. And I've met a few people on both sides of the Troubles who wouldn't have cared, just because they hated each other that much.

Its all bollocks.

[Sarmatian]

However, the US like any sovereign (democratic) nation has that right, and it has the obligation to support and defend the masses both internally and externally using whatever means it deems necessary.

This is too much authority for any one nation...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This is too much authority for any one nation...

It is the ultimate in realpolitik, and I could hardly criticize the United States for attempting to practice a policy I believe in.

[CrossLOPER]

It is the ultimate in realpolitik, and I could hardly criticize the United States for attempting to practice a policy I believe in.

It's a lot easier to believe when you're not "an area of interest".

[Banquo's Ghost]

That's why the Irish aren't a part of NATO. You're entitled to your own opinion, but it isn't shared by the rest of your responsible European brothers and sisters. The Irish have become a bunch of security freeloaders - what happened? I used to be so proud of my ancestral homeland.

The Republic's commitment to neutrality is a significant thread in our history. It is a philosophy very much in line with that of the United States prior to Pearl Harbour. Rather than derail this thread any further, and as it is subject I have been thinking about for some time, I'll start a new thread when I get back later today.

[Tribesman]

That's why the Irish aren't a part of NATO. You're entitled to your own opinion, but it isn't shared by the rest of your responsible European brothers and sisters.

It isn't responsible for a government to join a madcap scheme after someone has already made a balls of it Tuff .

The Irish have become a bunch of security freeloaders - what happened?

Actually the IDF have a habit of getting sent to places where the US screwed up and then turned tail , like Lebanon and Somalia .

And then , to add insult to injury - you're toys are crappy and few so you have to step on our toys(or these) and make fun.

Yes terrible isn't it , rubbish though our government is at least it doesn't waste huge amounts of money on unneeded toys . Though I do miss the Irish air corps fighter squadron display at the Salthill airshow now , them Magisters put on a much more entertaining display than the Thunderbirds , all the more entertaining when you consider that they were doing it in museum pieces that even the French and Belgians retired 40 years ago.

The Republic's commitment to neutrality is a significant thread in our history.

That wouldn't be the little thing involving the stupidity of a pointlesss war that was triggered by countries being in alliances and having to follow each other on a path of massive death , destruction and financial ruin over a small insignificant incident in a far off country with lots of crazy seperatist terrorists of different flavours would it .

[Mikeus Caesar]

I'm so proud, i've made a backroom thread with more than 1 page. My life is complete.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It's a lot easier to believe when you're not "an area of interest".

Well, if you're getting screwed over, do something realistic to stop what's going on. It works both ways.

[CrossLOPER]

Well, if you're getting screwed over, do something realistic to stop what's going on. It works both ways.

Fire wildly into the air?

[Sarmatian]

It is the ultimate in realpolitik, and I could hardly criticize the United States for attempting to practice a policy I believe in.

Bah, the same lines could be used to justify the need for Lebensraum. Realpolitik works fine and is a decent concept but within certain limits...

[rory_20_uk]

I'm with Tribesman.

People are not being sent to court where they are tried for their crimes with use of such things as evidence and due process. They (along with many around them who are often children) are killed from afar as one country says they're terrorists - with no recource to international or local justice or even evidence.

Of course this is going to make things worse - but it quick and simple in the short term, which is all that appears to matter. Taking to court and proving anything is long and expensive.

I fail to see how "winning" is supposed to occur. Invading, bombing and killing with the occasional "look, we've rebuilt your school - aren't we nice?" can be answered by "yes, and filled the cemetary..." will mean that on withdrawl there's no much distrust and dislike against a country that only a few years ago most will not have even heard of any terrorist organisation will have plentiful supplies of eager recruits.

Yes, nothing is better than this.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Fire wildly into the air?

If that's what you do best.

Bah, the same lines could be used to justify the need for Lebensraum. Realpolitik works fine and is a decent concept but within certain limits...

Well, the Lebensraum idea was both unnecessary and backfired, and was therefore not realpolitik. Realpolitik is realism. If you can realistically do something and gain from it, and it is necessary, go ahead. Lebensraum was not a realistic goal, or necessary.

[KarlXII]

How has the US given up on Afghanistan? And Besides, I don't think Europe should talk since they can't take care of Russia (go figure)....

Europe needs to take care of Russia?

Your Sweds Sure are funny! Remeber How bad these people beat you :


https://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?...hussar8nz2.jpg

Depends on what you're talking about, seeing as the Swedes have defeated the Polish quite a number of times. Russia was what broke the Empire, as it later did to Poland .

Maybe We should Nuke Sweden Instead? They seem to not be able losing to Poland in the 1600's quite a bit....

Make that Poland-Lithuania. Besides, if the nuking of Sweden is justified through wars fought back 400 years ago, you may also want to nuke Poland, England, Spain, France, Russia, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Holland, Belgium, to name a few countries that have lost wars in the past 400 years.....

It's funny, at least to me, that Sweden still remained sovereign after it's many wars, even after losing to Russia, yet Poland....well....must I go on?

Yes, I am 16, but I still have a brain. How well you thinking I don't know chief, but I'm thinking quite clear. If you just nuke the Middle East....

You'll A. Turn the place into glass B. Kill a lot of people (apparently you could care less anyway) and C. Probabaly turn to cannibalism after comitting such barbarity.

Makes me glad you're only 16.

Oh Wait, I'm just a dumb American Kid that needs to be nuke, forget it

Apparently you're the one who wants to do all the nuking......

[Redleg]

He was more like a the average Joe.... Just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Otherwise they would not have let him go.

However, spending 2,5 years in prison, with torture and stuff, not even knowing what you are accused of... There is only ONE western country that can happen in... USA.

Are you proud?

Dont kid yourself, there are infact other western nations where that can happen. Several European's in Gitmo ended up there with the aid of the Western government in Europe. When you speak in absolutes about rendition be very careful because the plane doesn't land or go through airspace without the knowledge of the government that controls the airspace

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Europe needs to take care of Russia?




Depends on what you're talking about, seeing as the Swedes have defeated the Polish quite a number of times. Russia was what broke the Empire, as it later did to Poland .



Make that Poland-Lithuania. Besides, if the nuking of Sweden is justified through wars fought back 400 years ago, you may also want to nuke Poland, England, Spain, France, Russia, Denmark, Germany, Norway, Holland, Belgium, to name a few countries that have lost wars in the past 400 years.....

It's funny, at least to me, that Sweden still remained sovereign after it's many wars, even after losing to Russia, yet Poland....well....must I go on?



You'll A. Turn the place into glass B. Kill a lot of people (apparently you could care less anyway) and C. Probabaly turn to cannibalism after comitting such barbarity.

Makes me glad you're only 16.



Apparently you're the one who wants to do all the nuking......

You forget to add Sweden to the country that losts wars in the past 400 years that needs to be nuke. Must have bad memory


Doesn't matter. Poland also did quite of bit of winning/work during their heyday, including beating Sweden. Plus, I didn't see Sweden At Vienna 1683. . We did the work then, not Sweden. (lets contiune this in Montasy shall we?)




I have no regret about my nuking comments. If A lot of people die, so be it. They have no problem killing innocent people, so, just return the favour.


You happy I'm only 16? Yes, and you can't admit my logical decison is the way to go. Typical Responce of a Liberal 30 something year old from Europe.

And What is this about France opening up to a lot of Muslims? I guess the French are still upset France isn't the superpower it once was, so it's letting in Muslims to try to boast it's name again.



And Besides, Sweden is by Russia, try looking at a map sometime. I think your country has some problems to worry about other then some American Kid.

f the work is counter productive then it would be best if you didn't bother . Just about every single thing the US military planners said not to do in Afghanistan unless you want to turn it into a waste of time the administration has gone ahead and done .
You have an absolute bunch of muppets calling the shots and while I understand that your military is sort of obliged to follow its comander in chief I can't believe so many european nations bothered making any contribution at all .
When their initial offers after 9/11 were turned down because America thought it could do Afghanistan by itself they should never have stepped in when America made a complete balls of it in a very short time .

Doesn't Matter. Europe doesn't do anything. Look at WWII, Britian and the Rest of them just sat back and enjoyed Mr.Hitler's show.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Doesn't Matter. Europe doesn't do anything. Look at WWII, Britian and the Rest of them just sat back and enjoyed Mr.Hitler's show.

Jim Hacker: Napoleon Prize?
Bill (Foreign Secretary): Yes, it's a NATO award given once every five years, big ceremony in Brussels, gold medal, £100 000. The PM's the front runner this time, it's for the statesman who's made the biggest contribution to European unity.
Sir Humphrey: Since Napoleon, that is if you don't count Hitler.

[CrossLOPER]

Well, the Lebensraum idea was both unnecessary and backfired, and was therefore not realpolitik.

NOTHING IS NECESSARY.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

NOTHING IS NECESSARY.

We've crossed the line from politics to philosophy with this statement.

[KarlXII]

You forget to add Sweden to the country that losts wars in the past 400 years that needs to be nuke. Must have bad memory

I included other countries with Sweden. Maybe you could read it again.

Doesn't matter. Poland also did quite of bit of winning/work during their heyday, including beating Sweden. Plus, I didn't see Sweden At Vienna 1683. . We did the work then, not Sweden. (lets contiune this in Montasy shall we?)

So? You fought the Ottomans in 1683, the Swedes had their own country to worry about. I'll gladly take it to the Monastery if you wish to continue bringing up the Miracle of Vienna (I guess that;s what you'd call it, seeig as it's been the only Polish miracle in the last 400 years, but I digress.)

I have no regret about my nuking comments. If A lot of people die, so be it. They have no problem killing innocent people, so, just return the favour.

You really are twisted, aren't you? You believe, to defeat those who bomb civilian targets, we mus tbomb civilians in return? Are you kidding me?

You happy I'm only 16? Yes, and you can't admit my logical decison is the way to go. Typical Responce of a Liberal 30 something year old from Europe.

Your logical decision? How is it logical to nuke civilians?

Oh, and A. I'm American-Swedish
B. I consider myself fairly Independant on the political scale.
C. I'm not 30

And What is this about France opening up to a lot of Muslims? I guess the French are still upset France isn't the superpower it once was, so it's letting in Muslims to try to boast it's name again.

How does that work? You're somehow a superpower with Muslims?

And Besides, Sweden is by Russia, try looking at a map sometime. I think your country has some problems to worry about other then some American Kid.

Glad you care, but I doubt Russia wants anything to do with Sweden.

I do worry about you, the 16 year old who advocates the intentional nuking of civilians.

Doesn't Matter. Europe doesn't do anything. Look at WWII, Britian and the Rest of them just sat back and enjoyed Mr.Hitler's show.

Battle of France- BEF, Dunkirk
Battle of Britain- RAF vs Luftwaffe
Battle of the Atlantic- Convoys
North African Campaign- Cyrenia campaign, El Alamein, Libya, Tunisia
Italian Campaign- Sicily, Monte Cassino etc.
Western Front- Gold/Sword Beach, Caen

I guess you should be glad you don't live in Coventry. I suggest you put down the penis measuring device and pick up a few books.

[Sarmatian]

Doesn't matter. Poland also did quite of bit of winning/work during their heyday, including beating Sweden. Plus, I didn't see Sweden At Vienna 1683. . We did the work then, not Sweden. (lets contiune this in Montasy shall we?)

Fascinating, I've thought all eyewitnesses of the Siege of Vienna were long dead. Who did you see at Vienna in 1683?

On a related note, why do people give all credit to Poland for the battle of Vienna? What about Austrians? It's not like they ran off and let the Poles fight Ottomans. It reminds me of a joke when 3 guys want to cross the border without passports and the police officer tells them he'll only let them cross if together their penises are longer than 50cm. First guy takes it out - 22cm, second guy - 26cm. They all look at the third and last guy - 3cm. All together 51cm. On the other side of the border the third guy turns to the other two and says: "You two should thank me, we wouldn't have made if I didn't have an erection".

[Strike For The South]

You forget to add Sweden to the country that losts wars in the past 400 years that needs to be nuke. Must have bad memory


Doesn't matter. Poland also did quite of bit of winning/work during their heyday, including beating Sweden. Plus, I didn't see Sweden At Vienna 1683. . We did the work then, not Sweden. (lets contiune this in Montasy shall we?)




I have no regret about my nuking comments. If A lot of people die, so be it. They have no problem killing innocent people, so, just return the favour.


You happy I'm only 16? Yes, and you can't admit my logical decison is the way to go. Typical Responce of a Liberal 30 something year old from Europe.

And What is this about France opening up to a lot of Muslims? I guess the French are still upset France isn't the superpower it once was, so it's letting in Muslims to try to boast it's name again.



And Besides, Sweden is by Russia, try looking at a map sometime. I think your country has some problems to worry about other then some American Kid.








Doesn't Matter. Europe doesn't do anything. Look at WWII, Britian and the Rest of them just sat back and enjoyed Mr.Hitler's show.

I find it utterly deplorable you take pride in Polish achievement. You are an American.

[Lord Winter]

I'm tired of hearing about Polish nationalism. I don't care how much you twist history to make the poles to look like gods but they weren't. They where human, they lost, they argued they bickered, yes they also won but they have flaws like everyone else back then. Isn't the first world war enough of an example to what happens with blind nationalism.

As for the bombings of civillians, are you crazy? Is it worth saving 10,000 people defined only by where they live if we must kill 100 million? Honestly patriotism is useless is we lose our humanity.

Doesn't Matter. Europe doesn't do anything. Look at WWII, Britian and the Rest of them just sat back and enjoyed Mr.Hitler's show.

More revisionist history Britian was doing what they could they were under a lot of preasure. Besides Russia won the war not the U.S. efforts.

[CountArach]

I'm tired of hearing about Polish nationalism. I don't care how much you twist history to make the poles to look like gods but they weren't. They where human, they lost, they argued they bickered, yes they also won but they have flaws like everyone else back then. Isn't the first world war enough of an example to what happens with blind nationalism.

How dare you!?!?!

POLAND FOREVER!

[Banquo's Ghost]

The last time Pakistan was mentioned in this thread, Jinnah was still president.

We have veered far enough from the lonely passes of the Khyber, so it is time for the thread to rest peacefully. Thanks to those making constructive contributions.