Just wondering , what with all this go across the border and attack the terrorist safe havens stuff in a nominally friendly country , does it remind anyone of another conflict America couldn't win ?
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Just wondering , what with all this go across the border and attack the terrorist safe havens stuff in a nominally friendly country , does it remind anyone of another conflict America couldn't win ?
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
jesus and hippies? they both needed to cut their hair and get a job.
now i'm here, and history is vindicated.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
nvmOriginally Posted by Tribesman
Last edited by Strike For The South; 09-16-2008 at 02:23.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
I was thinking Laos during the American operations in Vietnam, but every situation has unique nooks and crannies. What didn't work for one may work for another.
Please don't say "Madness is doing the same thing and expecting different results". It is never the same thing and you should always expect different results.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-16-2008 at 02:27.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
And if "define conservative in Jesus' sense" we've practically solved the problem, right? What the heck Jesus has got to do with US crossing border into Pakistan?
You guys are thinking too much about morality when you should be thinking about reality. It doesn't matter much if incursion is morally justified if the goal is catching terrorists - what matter is what Pakistanis are going to do.
They're not going to be happy about it and at one point they may decide to test those weapons on their maker. And this is not Iraq or Afghanistan, this is a country that has nuclear weapons, 800,000 sq km territory, 200 million people living in it and 7th largest army in the world. Care should be taken when dealing with such a nation, especially considering that militancy is high after what's been happening in the recent past. US troops rolling across the border would make perfect target to those elements within the country that are looking for one.
Better to play whack-a-mole with a few more terrorists than to try to take head on Pakistani army. Intensify border patrols and use carrot and stick system to get Pakistan to close those camps. It takes time but it is safest and offers the only sustainable solution. Has anyone thought what would happen if let's say US troops get in, destroy all terrorist camps and get out? No? New ones would be made.
So the strategy: get in, destroy, get out has two possible outcomes:
Outcome 1: Pakistanis don't react, in which case camps are reopened very soon after US soldiers leave - it doesn't change anything.
Outcome 2: Pakistan reacts and there is war and many more US soldiers die. And even if America manages to acquire control of Pakistan you get Iraq and Afghanistan times 100 and many more US soldiers die.
To sum up - incursions into Pakistan won't solve anything, won't reduce the risks of US soldiers getting killed (in the best of the best case it might, but only for a short time) and it may lead US army which is already very stretched out into bigger conflicts with the 7th largest military in the world. What those incursions can do, and likely will, is piss of Pakistan, which is in very delicate situation and should be treated very carefully...
Last edited by Sarmatian; 09-16-2008 at 02:33.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
We all know what you think about territorial integrity...
I favor a very cautious approach with respect to borders - particularly of allies, particularly of allies whose support is absolutely necessary to the pursuance of major strategic aims.
However - the reluctance of Pakistan to solve the problem and it's importance to the overall stability of the project in Afghanistan causes a vacuum that needs to be filled by action. It is arguable as to how this will get done.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-16-2008 at 02:34.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
True, but he also disregarded the letter in other parts, such as not working on the Sabbath, issues about dealing with gentiles, Samaritans, tax collectors etc... Point is, Jesus wasn't really conservative or liberal. But he WAS a hippy, no doubt.
It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Reluctance ? possibly to a certain extent , though more probably its through the realisation that they like everyone else who tried cannot solve the problem ...and I don't think the US has the faintest idea how to solve the problem of the tribal belt either .However - the reluctance of Pakistan to solve the problem
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
http://govexec.com/story_page.cfm?ar...dcn=todaysnews
This is a pretty good article I recently read. It should combat a lot of the ignorance thrown around about teh eval Bushie giving up on Afghanistan. Truth is, no one is more committed to the fight.
The article is a bit long but a good read. Seems the bad guys are starting to give up on Iraq and head to Afghanistan. Right behind them are hopefully the first of many reinforcements, from the U.S.
It seems that if anyone has given up on Afghanistan, it is Afghanistan itself. Also the key to winning there, is to strike insurgent sanctuaries in Pakistan.
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Mandela did not. Yet he was labeled terrorist, and sent to prison cause of it. Much like many of the "terrorist" in Guantanamo have not "fought" or "attacked civilian targets", but have argued against the US, have had texts supporting freedom fights, and so on...Jesus and Mandela attacked civilian targets of those who opposed them? That's news to me.
Or, are you actually saying that everyone in Guantanamo has attacked civilian targets??
Jesus however did...
Matthew 21:12-16
"And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves."
Isn't that attacking a civilian target of the Romans?
There has been a case study of Jesus as the first terrorist... Written by Björn Kumm, I am unsure if it is translated to english or not.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Dude, you need to stay! I like you.
Reeealy? How many people at Gitmo are labeled "terrorists?" How do you know many of those labeled "terrorists" haven't fought, attacked (or planned to attack) civilian targets? Are you saying that people have been imprisoned there for reading books? You must be a very well informed chap.Mandela did not. Yet he was labeled terrorist, and sent to prison cause of it. Much like many of the "terrorist" in Guantanamo have not "fought" or "attacked civilian targets", but have argued against the US, have had texts supporting freedom fights, and so on...
Or, are you actually saying that everyone in Guantanamo has attacked civilian targets??
Oh, another question: Why didn't you put "freedom fights" in quotes? Did you mean to say freedom fries?
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Oh you got me - a single outburst in which a table is thrown upside down is terrorism if I've ever seen it.Mandela did not. Yet he was labeled terrorist, and sent to prison cause of it. Much like many of the "terrorist" in Guantanamo have not "fought" or "attacked civilian targets", but have argued against the US, have had texts supporting freedom fights, and so on...
Or, are you actually saying that everyone in Guantanamo has attacked civilian targets??
Jesus however did...
Matthew 21:12-16
"And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves."
Isn't that attacking a civilian target of the Romans?
There has been a case study of Jesus as the first terrorist... Written by Björn Kumm, I am unsure if it is translated to english or not.
Start a new thread.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-16-2008 at 15:51.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
http://www.jesuswasaterrorist.net/Ap...arene_prt1.htm
Apparently divine intervention took down the site!
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
I imagine people get sent to Guantanamo for similar things. Y'know, single outburst, throwing things.
Its off-topic in regards to cross border invasion and nation sovereignity though.
I think Pakistan has every right to stop the US from attacking its citizens. I mean Mexico isn't sending soldiers to the US to hunt down some escaped aliens now are they? (Of course they couldn't care less, but just for sake of argument)
Last edited by FactionHeir; 09-16-2008 at 16:53.
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Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Actually Kadagar is right , that is an example of using force to disrupt the economy of the empire , no different from calling in a bomb threat to wall street to disturb their trading , well it could be worse as with Jesus confrontation actual violence and damage to property occured where with a bomb threat its just a threat of violence and damage .Oh you got me - a single outburst in which a table is thrown upside down is terrorism if I've ever seen it.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Does the transport of goods and people to Afghanistan go through Pakistan?
Either way, killing people on the territory of someone who's supposed to be an ally you depend heavily upon without their consent is really just a messed up idea.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Yes I have! Warman8 and Mr.Peanut for US Preisdent in 2008!
I will point americans who don't get why Europeans dislike them to this thread.
As a sidenote, I have had family dying in Afghanistan. NO I am not american, I am Swedish, so was the trooper.
You see, USA long ago gave up on that war, and left other countries to do their dirty job of cleaning up.
So, contrary to, well, 90% of the other posters in this therad, I am up to date with what happens there...
And no, NUKES is not the solution.
I do think the world would be a better place if someone nuked USA, would get some sence of vulnerability back, and, would make them understand what nukes does to people, for generations.
*sigh*
I got very sad when I read this thread.
Also, it creeps me out that the ONLY country ever to have used such a malign weapon as nukes, is the one claiming the morale highground, while their teenage (I hope you are teenage) citizens are screaming for more nukes...
Scary...
How has the US given up on Afghanistan? And Besides, I don't think Europe should talk since they can't take care of Russia (go figure)....
Your Sweds Sure are funny! Remeber How bad these people beat you:
https://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?...hussar8nz2.jpg
( Dad side of the family is Polish)
Maybe We should Nuke Sweden Instead? They seem to not be able losing to Poland in the 1600's quite a bit....
Yes, I am 16, but I still have a brain. How well you thinking I don't know chief, but I'm thinking quite clear. If you just nuke the Middle East....
Oh Wait, I'm just a dumb American Kid that needs to be nuke, forget it
Last edited by ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88; 09-16-2008 at 19:03.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
No wonder you hate the right - in your opinion a kid throwing a single rock at a U.S. tank is a terrorist. Everyone is two steps away from being shipped off to guantanamo.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Don’t worry, Kadager wont nuke you he just won’t feel bad if someone else nukes you.Oh Wait, I'm just a dumb American Kid that needs to be nuke, forget it
Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Well... to be quite honest, you dont even need to throw a rock to be shipped to Guantanamo...
Have you heard the story of the swedish guy? He was released after 3 years in Guantanamo...
He never even got to know what he was accused of.
He had a long beard and islamic litterature though.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Yea, that one guy, with the thing, that did the other thing, who was a, you know...
Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
Down with dried flowers!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
http://www.bokus.com/b/9789173430869.html
only in swedish though.
I am sure some other swedes can verify this story in true.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
One Less Potental Radical Muslim out there,right?
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
He was more like a the average Joe.... Just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Otherwise they would not have let him go.
However, spending 2,5 years in prison, with torture and stuff, not even knowing what you are accused of... There is only ONE western country that can happen in... USA.
Are you proud?
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
He was more like a the average Joe.... Just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Otherwise they would not have let him go.
However, spending 2,5 years in prison, with torture and stuff, not even knowing what you are accused of... There is only ONE western country that can happen in... USA.
Are you proud?
Was he Muslim? If so, well then.... Should have been more careful!
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Wrong , its stuff like that which makes lots of real radical muslims .One Less Potental Radical Muslim out there,right?
in your opinion a kid throwing a single rock at a U.S. tank is a terrorist.
Where have you been this century ? They gave up when they didn't fully exploit the very narrow window of opertunity , now that window has closed they are just pissing in the wind with no purpose .How has the US given up on Afghanistan?
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Again.... and americans wonder why they are hated.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
If you hate Americans, you're blind.
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Why? Because we lash out at crazy people who believe that a nuclear attack against America would make the world a better place?
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Pakistani troops involved in skirmish with US troops
Wrong , its stuff like that which makes lots of real radical muslims .
Where have you been this century ? They gave up when they didn't fully exploit the very narrow window of opertunity , now that window has closed they are just pissing in the wind with no purpose .
Ah Tribes, I been waiting for you to quote some of my posts.
No, Where have you been? Last time I checked, we been doing most of the work, since Europe can't do anything....
Also, Muslims turn radical because of their comrades, not us.
Again.... and americans wonder why they are hated.
By people like you who thinks America should be nuked.... yea, you make sense
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