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Thread: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

  1. #31
    Formerly: SwedishFish Member KarlXII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    So.... By that logic, we should all divide up all of Russia's territory and enslave the population...?
    Shhhh.....we'd be "civilizing"
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  2. #32
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    And on top of that they bought Alaska from them evil imperial russians who would never give away any of their land....oh...wait...they bought....never mind...
    Lmao, are you comparing 19th century Russia to 21st century Russia?



  3. #33
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Kush View Post
    Lmao, are you comparing 19th century Russia to 21st century Russia?
    I wasn't the one who started the "Russia has a history of..." talk and comparing 21st century Russia to 20th century Russia.


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  4. #34
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I wasn't the one who started the "Russia has a history of..." talk and comparing 21st century Russia to 20th century Russia.
    Yes you were. Don't be a lying nazi.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #35
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Oh no you didn't.
    Last edited by CrossLOPER; 09-18-2008 at 14:10.
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  6. #36
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    There are other things with Russia that are...more worrying.
    Runes for good luck:

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  7. #37

    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Title is badly off, I think Russian current leadership naturally wants whatever areas it wants in Arctic to get even more natural resources than it possesses at the moment. I understand these feelings perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave View Post
    Wait till they turn off the natural gas to you guys then you might think differently

    Yeah, here we go...

    What is the problem with this that I keep hearing all the time from some politicians too, "Russia turns off gas and oil delivery as it pleases". Booo freaking Hooo!!!

    These companies acting in Russia extracting and exporting oil and gas to whoever buys. They are unreliable, right? They might cut off the delivery as they please, right? So, they are breaking contracts, right?

    If this is the case, then for breaking the contracts simply sue these companies. There are numerous international courts out there for these things available on daily basis.

    If a supplier is unreliable and can't deliver these raw materials as it was agreed to do, then SIMPLY get a new one!

    I heard Saudi Arabia had some oil, Iraq had some oil, Iran had some gas and oil.

    Some people don't understand the fact that there are no global markets for raw materials. Raw materials has always been sold on monopoly markets between nations. In monopoly markets you're not in a position to open your mouth, because there is no competition at all.

    These nations buying oil and gas from companies exporting these raw materials from Russia. If not satisfied in a case then they need to shut up and get new suppliers.

    I don't get this whining at all.

    I’m referring, among other things, to Russia’s intimidation of its sovereign neighbors, its use of oil and gas as a political weapon,
    http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/09/109954.htm

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Simply pathetic! If these "sovereign nations" feel like this, then get new supplier and shut up.

    Damn populism spreads around the world like a plague these days.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 09-22-2008 at 14:07.

  8. #38
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Yeah...........

    Actually, unless you haven't noticed, oil is a rather rare and expensive resource these days. It's not so simple to "just get a new supplier", it's not like if you hate the oranges in store 1 you can simply go to store 2. A big supplier like Russia shutting down exports for a period of time would cause MASSIVE problems for just about everyone who isn't self-sufficient with oil.

    EDIT: Also, legal threats? You think you can sue Putin if he decides to be an ass and he will stop?
    Last edited by HoreTore; 09-23-2008 at 03:10.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  9. #39
    lurker Member JR-'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxil View Post
    Title is badly off, I think Russian current leadership naturally wants whatever areas it wants in Arctic to get even more natural resources than it possesses at the moment. I understand these feelings perfectly.

    Yeah, here we go...

    What is the problem with this that I keep hearing all the time from some politicians too, "Russia turns off gas and oil delivery as it pleases". Booo freaking Hooo!!!

    These companies acting in Russia extracting and exporting oil and gas to whoever buys. They are unreliable, right? They might cut off the delivery as they please, right? So, they are breaking contracts, right?

    If this is the case, then for breaking the contracts simply sue these companies. There are numerous international courts out there for these things available on daily basis.

    If a supplier is unreliable and can't deliver these raw materials as it was agreed to do, then SIMPLY get a new one!

    I heard Saudi Arabia had some oil, Iraq had some oil, Iran had some gas and oil.

    Some people don't understand the fact that there are no global markets for raw materials. Raw materials has always been sold on monopoly markets between nations. In monopoly markets you're not in a position to open your mouth, because there is no competition at all.

    These nations buying oil and gas from companies exporting these raw materials from Russia. If not satisfied in a case then they need to shut up and get new suppliers.

    I don't get this whining at all.

    http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/09/109954.htm

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Simply pathetic! If these "sovereign nations" feel like this, then get new supplier and shut up.

    Damn populism spreads around the world like a plague these days.
    even the threat of halted oil/gas supplies can cause advanced economies to lose billions, and it simply isn't that easy to switch suppliers.

  10. #40
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    I think Praxil's point was switch now, and don't put yourself in a position that someone could cut off oil, but that is expensive and impractical. Switch to which country? Venezuela, Iran? They're more reliable than Russia?

    But it is highly illogical that Russia cuts of oil and gas to EU. Both EU and Russia would lose billions. The only scenario in which that can happen is an all-out war...

  11. #41
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxil View Post
    If a supplier is unreliable and can't deliver these raw materials as it was agreed to do, then SIMPLY get a new one!

    [...]

    Some people don't understand the fact that there are no global markets for raw materials. Raw materials has always been sold on monopoly markets between nations.
    Erm...okay. So which one is it? A monoploy market, or a multiple supplier market?


    they need to shut up and get new suppliers

    [...]

    In monopoly markets you're not in a position to open your mouth, because there is no competition at all
    Erm...okay. So which one is it? Should we shut up at last, or are we not in a position to open our mouth?






    Damn populism spreads around the world like a plague these days.
    Yeah, it's ridiculous, isn't it? Me, I'm not a big fan of simple solutions and lots of swearing myself either.
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  12. #42

    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Actually, unless you haven't noticed, oil is a rather rare and expensive resource these days. It's not so simple to "just get a new supplier", it's not like if you hate the oranges in store 1 you can simply go to store 2. A big supplier like Russia shutting down exports for a period of time would cause MASSIVE problems for just about everyone who isn't self-sufficient with oil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculu5 View Post
    even the threat of halted oil/gas supplies can cause advanced economies to lose billions, and it simply isn't that easy to switch suppliers.

    You guys are living with an impression that these companies are doing community service for the whole world. That they MUST export these raw materials they have, because others don't have them. Quite an imaginations those are indeed.

    In reality, they are exporting them, because that is profitable enough at the moment. They don't care who is in need or is in short of some raw materials. That is completely irrelevant. At least that's how it should be, since Soviet Union did whole heavy lifting and work for all communists in the world for free, for no profit at all. Russia in my opinion should cash in and keep milking, investing all that back in Russia. Saying that because for example biggest owner of Gazprom is Federal Russia, so no doubt that Federal Russia has something to say on board when new contracts are made and so on.


    Yeah..............

    I know perfectly the reasons behind all the bitterness and with rising populism over this "Russia" uses oil/gas as a political weapon. See despite for over 100 years of effort by certain nations, Russia still isn't that colonial area from where you can suck out every raw materials for free. Many tried hard, but that nation is still independent.


    Just like the song goes...

    "People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer"
    Last edited by Praxil; 09-23-2008 at 21:31.

  13. #43
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Uh......

    Now you lost me completely.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  14. #44
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxil View Post
    You guys are living with an impression that these companies are doing community service for the whole world. That they MUST export these raw materials they have, because others don't have them. Quite an imaginations those are indeed.

    In reality, they are exporting them, because that is profitable enough at the moment. They don't care who is in need or is in short of some raw materials. That is completely irrelevant. At least that's how it should be, since Soviet Union did whole heavy lifting and work for all communists in the world for free, for no profit at all. Russia in my opinion should cash out and keep milking, investing all that back in Russia. Saying that because for example biggest owner of Gazprom is Federal Russia, so no doubt that Federal Russia has something to say on board when new contracts are made and so on.


    Yeah..............

    I know perfectly the reasons behind all the bitterness and with rising populism over this "Russia" uses oil/gas as a political weapon. See despite for over 100 years of effort by certain nations, Russia still isn't that colonial area from where you can suck out every raw materials for free. Many tried hard, but that nation is still independent.


    Just like the song goes...

    "People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer"
    Are you Russian?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #45
    Yesdachi swallowed by Jaguar! Member yesdachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I think Praxil's point was switch now, and don't put yourself in a position that someone could cut off oil...
    It is a pretty good idea to diversify your supplier base anyhow even if it is a 90/10 split at least you have a resource that is already set in place to start drawing from. It is easier to double what you are receiving from vendor number two then to start working with a second vendor. It also lets vendor number one know that they need to stay fair.
    Peace in Europe will never stay, because I play Medieval II Total War every day. ~YesDachi

  16. #46
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re : Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxil View Post
    Soviet Union did whole heavy lifting and work for all communists in the world for free, for no profit at all.
    No it didn't. The Soviet Union brutally oppressed half a continent.

    I wish I could say that the Soviet Union paid the bill itself. But alas, not even this is true. Its perfidious oppression was to the tremendous economic detriment of the colonised nations. This quite apart from putting a monetary value on the human and ecological catastrophe of the Soviet experiment.

    See despite for over 100 years of effort by certain nations, Russia still isn't that colonial area from where you can suck out every raw materials for free. Many tried hard, but that nation is still independent.
    Yeah, we tried. But we couldn't penetrate that great big defensive wall in Berlin. People kept being shot when they tried to sneak into East Berlin.


    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore
    Uh......

    Now you lost me completely.
    It's the real face of communism. Which you admire so much.

    I'm already looking forward to how you are going to tell us that this has got nothing to do with communism, and that it is nationalism and if only the revolution had been in accordance with Trotskism-Leninism and
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  17. #47
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I'm already looking forward to how you are going to tell us that this has got nothing to do with communism, and that it is nationalism and if only the revolution had been in accordance with Trotskism-Leninism and
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  18. #48
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re : Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I'm already looking forward to how you are going to tell us that this has got nothing to do with communism, and that it is nationalism and if only the revolution had been in accordance with Trotskism-Leninism and
    How you pulled that out of his argument is beyond me.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

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