On America and ethnic ancestry

[Louis VI the Fat]

They're all humans, aren't they?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yes, we read a small speech from Kant in high-school and I feel totally enlightened and stuff ever since.

We are all brothers.


Ich bin ein Amerikaner!


Und du bist ein Essener, einmal ein Amerikaner. Ein Amerikaner ist ein Berliner und isst ein Hamburger aber nicht ein Frankfurter.

Oder sonst.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

We are all brothers.


Ich bin ein Amerikaner!


Und du bist ein Essener, einmal ein Amerikaner. Ein Amerikaner ist ein Berliner und isst ein Hamburger aber nicht ein Frankfurter.

Oder sonst.

Nice wordplay Louis!

[Koga No Goshi]

As Americans how much pride do you take in your ethnic background?

I am generally interested to find out how much Americans associate with the "old country" I think it will vary depending on where you are I know a faced a culture shock just moving from San Antonio to Lubbock. On the one San Antonio's culture was much more varied wether it be Mexican German or Czech all these people took allot of pride in where they came from even if it was hundreds of years ago. At times it was tiresome and I bemoaned at the pig headedness of these people and they way they held on to traditions rather than become American. I thought as a country thats given them so much a country which my family has been a part of for over 400 years one that they helped build (rather literally) why couldn't they just drop it. Then I moved here and its really all kind of white bread. The food isn't as good or varied, there is really ethnic flavor and I'm finding it all kind of boring (the city not uni) I'm not saying you cant do both merely posing a question.

I dislike the term taking pride. I think it is too equal sign'd with "privately consider better than others." I would describe the feeling I have more as "a respect and appreciation for", rather than "I AM PROUD TO BE X, SUCKS TO BE YOU SINCE YOU'RE NOT." Which, to me, always seems to be the implication when people express a lot of pride in their heritage. In some cases "x pride" (I'm thinking particularly of white pride in the U.S., though of course it's not exclusively restricted to that) is code for fairly overt advocacy of race-based supremacy.

For me, there would be several "old countries", but I think you tend to find that people are much more mixed on the West Coast, save recent arrivals, than on the East. In the East Coast you still have a lot of "pure" and "half" communities-- I'm thinking heavily of Russian, Italian, Irish, German and Polish in particular, and Jewish too, come to think of it. Where there is still very much an idea of "this is our neighborhood, that neighborhood over there is the Italian one", etc. That's honestly almost unheard of on the west coast, and from a historical perspective it makes sense; people tended to generationally slide west gradually and striking out mostly as single men and mixing naturally occurred more the further west you went. It's important to note, though, that for me the "old country" primarily is the pre-Anglo Americas, as through my Blackfeet heritage my ancestry goes back in North America (a swath of the plains states and central Canada that crosses the border, there are Blackfeet communities in both countries) for tens of thousands of years. (Ten thousand years is the absolute minimum as this is estimated to be when there was a solid enough "land bridge" to cross during the ice age, but dentology and studies of blood and genetics and linguistics, as well as carbon dated campfire charcoal in Brazil and elsewhere place human habitation here as even further back.)

I do get very tired of America sometimes, but unlike non-Natives, I can't say "eh, if it continues to suck here I'll just move to Canada/England/Australia/name x country." For me that would be, in some regards, leaving the homeland for the first time for one line of my family.

[Jolt]

Since I am an advocate of Nation States, I cannot help but feel this thread is funny considering being an American should have been being of the Indian American background.

[Koga No Goshi]

Since I am an advocate of Nation States, I cannot help but feel this thread is funny considering being an American should have been being of the Indian American background.

I know what you mean. Whenever someone says something like "Speak American", I always say something like inaak aatsissta! or inousouyi! or some other random word in Blackfeet.

[Strike For The South]

I speak english

[Strike For The South]

I dislike the term taking pride. I think it is too equal sign'd with "privately consider better than others." I would describe the feeling I have more as "a respect and appreciation for", rather than "I AM PROUD TO BE X, SUCKS TO BE YOU SINCE YOU'RE NOT." Which, to me, always seems to be the implication when people express a lot of pride in their heritage. In some cases "x pride" (I'm thinking particularly of white pride in the U.S., though of course it's not exclusively restricted to that) is code for fairly overt advocacy of race-based supremacy.

For me, there would be several "old countries", but I think you tend to find that people are much more mixed on the West Coast, save recent arrivals, than on the East. In the East Coast you still have a lot of "pure" and "half" communities-- I'm thinking heavily of Russian, Italian, Irish, German and Polish in particular, and Jewish too, come to think of it. Where there is still very much an idea of "this is our neighborhood, that neighborhood over there is the Italian one", etc. That's honestly almost unheard of on the west coast, and from a historical perspective it makes sense; people tended to generationally slide west gradually and striking out mostly as single men and mixing naturally occurred more the further west you went. It's important to note, though, that for me the "old country" primarily is the pre-Anglo Americas, as through my Blackfeet heritage my ancestry goes back in North America (a swath of the plains states and central Canada that crosses the border, there are Blackfeet communities in both countries) for tens of thousands of years. (Ten thousand years is the absolute minimum as this is estimated to be when there was a solid enough "land bridge" to cross during the ice age, but dentology and studies of blood and genetics and linguistics, as well as carbon dated campfire charcoal in Brazil and elsewhere place human habitation here as even further back.)

I do get very tired of America sometimes, but unlike non-Natives, I can't say "eh, if it continues to suck here I'll just move to Canada/England/Australia/name x country." For me that would be, in some regards, leaving the homeland for the first time for one line of my family.

I would never leave here either. I hate Europeans and consider myself superior to Australia Canada and New Zealand. Come to think of it I would never leave Texas since I consider myself superior to all other states....I guess I have what you would call an "ego"

[Koga No Goshi]

I would never leave here either. I hate Europeans and consider myself superior to Australia Canada and New Zealand. Come to think of it I would never leave Texas since I consider myself superior to all other states....I guess I have what you would call an "ego"

That's okay, Texas is sort of the new New York in terms of most other states considering its residents obnoxious. :)

[Strike For The South]

That's okay, Texas is sort of the new New York in terms of most other states considering its residents obnoxious. :)

New York? NEW YORK! Dont ever compare Texas, the culture,economic,and political center of the world with that backwards state.

[Koga No Goshi]

New York? NEW YORK! Dont ever compare Texas, the culture,economic,and political center of the world with that backwards state.

:O IS IT ON DRUGS, PRECIOUS? IS IT?

haha

[Idaho]

Why are Texans so proud of Texas? Everything I have seen or heard about the place hasn't impressed me much.

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

[Koga No Goshi]

Why are Texans so proud of Texas? Everything I have seen or heard about the place hasn't impressed me much.

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

If you think ethnic background has no bearing on someone's experiences in America as an American, you're kinda... wrong. :) If you grow up in urban Chicago as a black person, or in a Polish neighborhood in Pennsylvania, or in Jewish New York, or on a reservation as a Native American, or from a hispanohablante district of New Mexico, or as a suburban white person in Orange County, saying "oh well you're all just Americans play acting as having different backgrounds" is really not true.

[Don Corleone]

If you think ethnic background has no bearing on someone's experiences in America as an American, you're kinda... wrong. :) If you grow up in urban Chicago as a black person, or in a Polish neighborhood in Pennsylvania, or in Jewish New York, or on a reservation as a Native American, or from a hispanohablante district of New Mexico, or as a suburban white person in Orange County, saying "oh well you're all just Americans play acting as having different backgrounds" is really not true.

I think the intention of Idaho's post was to disassociate England's (and Europe's) cultural heritage from America's. In affect, call yourselves whatever you want, we'd prefer to think we had nothing to do with your origins. You know, the usual warm fuzzies you get from Idaho.

[Koga No Goshi]

I think the intention of Idaho's post was to disassociate England's (and Europe's) cultural heritage from America's. In affect, call yourselves whatever you want, we'd prefer to think we had nothing to do with your origins. You know, the usual warm fuzzies you get from Idaho.

Oh I see, my apologies if I misunderstood. Yes it's true that someone in America saying "I'm French and German" really has nothing to do most of the time with any real ties to those cultures or nations besides distant ancestry.

[Spino]

Why are Texans so proud of Texas? Everything I have seen or heard about the place hasn't impressed me much.

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

Thanks for playing. Please enjoy these lovely parting gifts. QFT... for the discerning troll in your forum.

What's the deal with these drive-bys of yours, are you actively pursuing the thug life on the internet?

[Koga No Goshi]

Thanks for playing. Please enjoy these lovely parting gifts. QFT... for the discerning troll in your forum.

What's the deal with these drive-bys of yours, are you actively pursuing the thug life on the internet?

Look who's talking... the guy who calls Obama the "Egomaniacal Farce" in every political thread.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

I take quite a bit of pride in my Polish ancestry. My family tries to keep traditions alive, especially around the holidays.

......now excuse me I have to finish making my Polish sausage and Perogies.

You dah man, m52!!!

[Reverend Joe]

Why are Texans so proud of Texas? Everything I have seen or heard about the place hasn't impressed me much.

They have peyote...

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

Just the sort of attitude I would expect from a heathen German.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

I have to agree and disagree. Yes, they are all Americans - but they are hardly "just" Americans. America has a long, rich, and beautiful history. In this history, the heritage of the individual has shaped who he or she is. Yes, Americans are Americans. No, being a quarter German by ethnic background does not make you German. Americans, however, have some of the most astounding and diverse family histories. Every story is unique, and every story makes you who you are.

[Hosakawa Tito]

I think the intention of Idaho's post was to disassociate England's (and Europe's) cultural heritage from America's. In affect, call yourselves whatever you want, we'd prefer to think we had nothing to do with your origins. You know, the usual warm fuzzies you get from Idaho.

They've been like this ever since Monty Python went off the air...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Why are Texans so proud of Texas? Everything I have seen or heard about the place hasn't impressed me much.

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

Aww, the poor Englishman is grumpy. There, there, now.

CR

[Jolt]

Btw - all you americans. You are just americans. All the extra ethnic lineage stuff is really just play acting.

That's wrong because Europeans have been the main driving engine (of murdering and expelling) of America even before it was even created.

In the beginning, all was peaceful and quiet, and the Indians hunted and lived as one with nature.

But then the Europeans arrived.

Europeans settlers murdered and expelled coastal Indians so they could live as European Settlers do and to start attracting more European settlers.
Then European settlers murdered some Europeans (British, actually) from their national homeland.
Then the said European settlers went berserk and ran as fast as they could inland, murdering and expelling as many Indians as they could. While this happened, more Europeans started pouring in.
Then the European Settlers (Americans) murdered other European Settlers/Mestizos (Mexicans) for murdering too many European Settlers (Texans), after that, even more Europeans poured into America.
Then the European Settlers (Unionists) murdered other European Settlers (Confederalists or whatever they're called) since they couldn't agree on how to treat African Settlers.
Then the, now quite large group of European Settlers (America) had to go murder Europeans for the last two centuries. First it was Iberian Europeans (Spanish), although this time it was still in Settler's lands (America & Asia), then they went to murder other Europeans (Germans) two times so they could save other Europeans (French and British) in their very own lands, and while this happened, more European Settlers arrived in America, and continued arrving ever since.

:P

[Koga No Goshi]

I sort of hinted at that indirectly earlier in the thread; saying that Americans' "ethnicity" doesn't have any real bearing on the nation their families came from sort of assumes everyone in America is just a Euro mix. Hardly true at all.

[KukriKhan]

Thanks for playing. Please enjoy these lovely parting gifts. QFT... for the discerning troll in your forum.

What's the deal with these drive-bys of yours, are you actively pursuing the thug life on the internet?

Honestly, I think it's the "Married, With Children" life. With a fulltime job, a six year old and pair of preschool twins, he's probably lucky to get online once a week. That he stops by here to maintain his 'skeptical Englishman' persona - developed over many years here - is oddly... gratifying.

[Idaho]

Yeah it's something like that Kukhri :D

Spino - I like the 'drive by' analogy. It is a bit like that. I think it's because I don't have time to put together a long argument, and then defend that arguement against a largely hostile crowd. So I content myself with just running into a thread and giving it a kick in the arse before running off again. Like a briefly emboldened schoolboy who loses his nerve after the deed was done.

I actually didn't mean it that unfondly when I said you are all just americans. What I mean is that an Irish American and a German american have more in common with each other than they do with their talisman country of origin. And actually an Irishman and a German have more in common with each other than with the relevant American. There is a very different mindset on your side of the Atlantic (and I'm not saying it's a bad one here) which no amount of Shamrocks, feast day observations, special food and music can negate.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Personally I'm quite proud of my Ethiopian heritage, I heard some of my ancestors came from that area...

Sometimes I think I'm maybe 50% Scottish, 25% Northern Irish, and 25% Ethiopian.

[Idaho]

I have plans to improve my family's genetic strain. We need to breed out poor eyesight and allergies, and breed in more athleticism and some hybrid vigour.

I want my children to marry east african and then my grandchildren to marry chinese. Then maybe the great grandchildren can resow in some jew or euro.

[Ser Clegane]

I want my children to marry east african and then my grandchildren to marry chinese. Then maybe the great grandchildren can resow in some jew or euro.

Any ETA for the Kwisatz Haderach?

[Koga No Goshi]

I actually didn't mean it that unfondly when I said you are all just americans. What I mean is that an Irish American and a German american have more in common with each other than they do with their talisman country of origin. And actually an Irishman and a German have more in common with each other than with the relevant American. There is a very different mindset on your side of the Atlantic (and I'm not saying it's a bad one here) which no amount of Shamrocks, feast day observations, special food and music can negate.

Hi Idaho,

I get what you meant (and Kukri and others set me straight.) It's actually another point in our cultural differences, a European (and I didn't catch you were not American at the time actually) saying that means a totally different thing from if an American had said it. Here in the U.S. we get a lot of "oh drop the race/ethnicity/hyphenated American crap", and the argument usually goes "it doesn't mean anything", but that's really only true for white people in the sense that they can choose to put it down, live out the rest of their life and not notice the difference. I suppose you could say we're just sensitive and conflicted on the topic period over here. Interesting at any rate.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

America is great, but I'd rather live elsewhere. Not to mention I'm much more proud of my heritage from other countries (German, Dutch, and Indian).