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Thread: Preview: The Gaza Campaign

  1. #61
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    You need to download the xvid codec. I suggest getting the KLM codec pack. Fixes you up with practically everything you need.

    http://www.codecguide.com/download_mega.htm

    Foot
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Yeah, it didn't work for me in WMP either - try downloading DivX, that worked for me.

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  3. #63
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Thanks for the advice, Foot and I Am Herenow.
    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

  4. #64
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Wow. Simply stunning. Amazing graphics and unit diversity.

    However, why did the two pike phalanxes just sit there and do absolutely nothing? Some of the animations also look a bit wrong (such as the cavalry one; they look like medieval knights in a charge than what they really are). Is there any way to import the old RTW animations? Nevertheless, I have to admit the majority of the animations were much better than the RTW ones. Do the soldiers still deliver that deathblow, like in vanilla M2TW?

    Not to mention, the soldier's faces look a bit funny. Rather childish than the fierce grimaces they should be. EB I has pretty good soldier faces, but the same cannot be said about other mods. Are the skins shown in the video final or are they still in development?

  5. #65
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Relax, it's a work in progress... Add some suggestions to your post, that would be helpful.

  6. #66
    Member Member The Wicked's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    You are the best guys !!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Alexander came by the statue of his father and spoke loud: `Youths of the Pellaians and of the Macedonians and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians... and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for AS Hellenes WE should not be slaves to barbarians."

  7. #67

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus View Post
    Wow. Simply stunning. Amazing graphics and unit diversity.

    However, why did the two pike phalanxes just sit there and do absolutely nothing? Some of the animations also look a bit wrong (such as the cavalry one; they look like medieval knights in a charge than what they really are). Is there any way to import the old RTW animations? Nevertheless, I have to admit the majority of the animations were much better than the RTW ones. Do the soldiers still deliver that deathblow, like in vanilla M2TW?

    Not to mention, the soldier's faces look a bit funny. Rather childish than the fierce grimaces they should be. EB I has pretty good soldier faces, but the same cannot be said about other mods. Are the skins shown in the video final or are they still in development?
    There were horsemen back then who did fight like medieval knights with the spear couched, aka the "Longchophoroi". Earlier Hippeis would fight with the spear overhand as you say. They would also carry a smaller "cavalry" aspis.

    If you are interested, check some online pictures of your Namesakes' dedication to Delphi after he defeated Perseus (Thanks DeathEmperor). You will see that they carry the large shield that are portrayed using at the video.

    They weren't the only ones of course,
    Last edited by keravnos; 09-28-2008 at 13:50.


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  8. #68
    Member Member DeathEmperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by keravnos View Post
    If you are interested, check some online pictures of your Namesakes' dedication to Delphi after he defeated Phillipos V. You will see that they carry the large shield that are portrayed using at the video.
    *gasp* Keravnos aren't you thinking of Titus Quinctius Flaminius or if not him Philip V's son Perseus?

    Then again it might be I who's in the wrong. I specialize more in Seleukid and Ptolemaic history more than Antigonid Makedon.


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  9. #69
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    just thought i would stick my head in here.....
    wow! great job! makes me not regret wasting $30 on M2TW gold!
    cant wait!
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Nah... I don't like it.



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  11. #71

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    It's a great start. I have some questions and remarks, though.

    1. What animations will you add or change? What about finishers and individual fighting style from MTW2? Will you change it to reflect more mass-based clashes for hoplites and legions, and make it a little more individual for Sweboz or Aedui?
    2. Do you consider phalanx animations finished? They look rather stiff, especially the "lifting" animation (since phalangites are constantly changing between stances - it looks terrible...) Also, am I blind or only two rows are fighting, and the rest have their sarissas lifted?
    3. Why do units move so slowly? It's very evident in case of charging units. They look like in slow-motion!
    4. 1:32-1:36 - there is absolutely no sense of mass when the hoplites are fighting. They are standing still!

    Skins look nice. MTW2 engine will certainly benefit EB.
    Last edited by Cybvep; 09-30-2008 at 16:23.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    2... JMRC may answer, but I think the problems (are mostly) with some XML settings which determine 'bounding... bubbles'. Values probably need to be tweaked somewhat. That '2' rows are fighting, and the rest have everything lifted is correct -- in the sense that indeed the guys are deployed 6 ranks deep.
    3... I'd guess ... Because, actually, that is slow motion? Didn't make the movie, don't own the PC used for recording... so can't know for sure. But yeah I'd say that is slow motion.
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  13. #73
    Member Member hoom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    I think this is looking like a pretty good start

    Great to see the variety within units, looks real nice

    Some animations seem a bit weird but hopefully can be tweaked to be better.
    The slow-mo I think is a M2TW engine thing? I believe it was the CA response to popular complaints about the fast pace of RTW.
    Is the Phalanx using the Halberd type formation rather than the Pike formation?
    maybe those guys should be doing something more useful...

  14. #74
    EB Traitor Member BozosLiveHere's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    The issue of only the first two rows of the phalanx fighting is an issue with the M2TW pike formation itself. AFAIK, there's nothing we can do about it.

  15. #75
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by BozosLiveHere View Post
    The issue of only the first two rows of the phalanx fighting is an issue with the M2TW pike formation itself. AFAIK, there's nothing we can do about it.
    What about transplanting the old RTW data into M2TW? Is that possible? After all, those phalanxes look very awkward in that EB II video. Very awkward. More like the the late Middle Age/Renaissance pikeman formation rather than the proper Macedonian phalanx.
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 10-01-2008 at 00:52.

  16. #76
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    We don't have access to that data, so no we cannot.

    Foot
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    We don't have access to that data, so no we cannot.

    Foot
    So essentially there will be no true Mace. phalanx in EBII?


  18. #78
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Only if you lived under the delusion that RTW's phalanx was the be all and end all of the "true Mace. phalanx". We actually thing that the Phalanx in EBII is looking better than the one in EBI and RTW.

    Foot
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  19. #79

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    I think the phalanxes look splendid! Sure, they might be wawing a bit with their sarissas in some of those shots, but when it comes to cohesion, I actually think it looks better than in RTW. The phalanx-formations there were ridiculously thight and firm, especially considering that most phalangites were not superbly drilled proffesionals, but more of a levy (except argyspides and their likes, of course). They shouldn't collapse as easily as the pike-formations in vanilla M2TW, though, but the RTW-ones are a bit to firm, I think.

    By the way, Foot: I think I might be stepping on thin ice here, but by the statement in the Gaza-campaign introduction, I gather that the player will actually play as a city-state faction, yet the player will obviously be assuming the role of Ptolemaios. And one's andversary will obviously be Antigonos, whose kingdom collapsed after his death at Ipsus. Does this mean that the factions in the tutorial campaign will be unique to it, and not factions from the "real thing"? Or have I gotten it completely wrong?

    Anyway, once again, I must congratulate the EB-team on a splendid job!
    Last edited by Mithridates VI Eupator; 10-01-2008 at 12:05.


  20. #80
    EBII PM Member JMRC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    It's a great start. I have some questions and remarks, though.

    1. What animations will you add or change? What about finishers and individual fighting style from MTW2? Will you change it to reflect more mass-based clashes for hoplites and legions, and make it a little more individual for Sweboz or Aedui?
    There are many animations to add/change: overhand spear cavalry and infantry (WIP), two-hand spear cavalry, slingers, infantry and cavalry archers who draw from the chest (WIP), roman legion fight-style, macedonian phalanx (WIP), archers and javelinmen on elephants. Then, we will change many anims to make them faster or to remove some exagerated moves.

    The hoplite and legion anims are being adapted to be more cohesive, but we will leave the sword and spear vanilla anims for the less cohesive units, since the soldiers tend to spread more in those anims.

    We will keep the death anims whenever possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    2. Do you consider phalanx animations finished? They look rather stiff, especially the "lifting" animation (since phalangites are constantly changing between stances - it looks terrible...) Also, am I blind or only two rows are fighting, and the rest have their sarissas lifted?
    No, they are still WIP, since there are many anims to change yet. Keep in mind that only the first 3 ranks would have their spears down, since the press of phalangites would not allow for more, so that part is realistic. If you look closely, you'll see that the 3rd rank starts with the spears down, but the M2TW engine forces them to lift the spears as soon as contact is made. Unfortunately, we cannot change that behavior, but the first 2 ranks do the job well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    3. Why do units move so slowly? It's very evident in case of charging units. They look like in slow-motion!
    This is vanilla behavior. Whenever possible, we will change the anims to add more speed. We already did that to the javelinmen and archers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    4. 1:32-1:36 - there is absolutely no sense of mass when the hoplites are fighting. They are standing still!
    That's also a vanilla behavior, which is augmented due to the units being in guard mode.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cybvep View Post
    Skins look nice. MTW2 engine will certainly benefit EB.
    No doubt about that.



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  21. #81

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    How about the units displayed? Hoplites and phalangites are obvious. The very first ones shown have thureos and other large shields, linothorax, javelins, a spear and greaves, so I guess that makes them Thurephoroi.

    but what about the ones in 1:30? They have the same large shields but no armor and no greaves (or I didn't see well), and they seem to be holding a sword. Would those be peltastai? In EB1 they did have linothorax though, and the Euzonoi were shown with smaller round shields in the preview IIRC.

    Anyways, your work looks absolutely amazing! Congratulations on such a good piece of art.
    Last edited by gosam; 10-01-2008 at 15:08.

  22. #82
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    No, they are Euzonoi. Euzonoi have always been shown with thureos. You may be thinking of the akontistai (don't recall if we had shown them though).

    Foot
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  23. #83

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by keravnos View Post
    There were horsemen back then who did fight like medieval knights with the spear couched, aka the "Longchophoroi".
    Longchophoroi were javelineers; the longche was a light spear, not a lance. And even the lancers, xustophoroi, did not fight with couched spear, as that was only a later, medieval tactic.

    Earlier Hippeis would fight with the spear overhand as you say. They would also carry a smaller "cavalry" aspis.
    How early are you talking about? And what evidence do you have for cavalrymen carrying a special, smaller form of aspis? Or are you specifically referring to the representations on Tarentine coins?

    If you are interested, check some online pictures of your Namesakes' dedication to Delphi after he defeated Perseus (Thanks DeathEmperor). You will see that they carry the large shield that are portrayed using at the video.

    They weren't the only ones of course,
    Cavalry shields are perfectly appropriate for the later third century BC and later, but cavalry did not begin to use shields east of the Italian peninsula until after the first quarter of the third century or so, and so cavalry at Gaza would certainly not have carried shields.

  24. #84
    EBII PM Member JMRC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by gosam View Post
    How about the units displayed? Hoplites and phalangites are obvious. The very first ones shown have thureos and other large shields, linothorax, javelins, a spear and greaves, so I guess that makes them Thurephoroi.

    but what about the ones in 1:30? They have the same large shields but no armor and no greaves (or I didn't see well), and they seem to be holding a sword. Would those be peltastai? In EB1 they did have linothorax though, and the Euzonoi were shown with smaller round shields in the preview IIRC.

    Anyways, your work looks absolutely amazing! Congratulations on such a good piece of art.
    The units pictured in the movie were: phalangitai, hoplitai, euzonoi, akontistai, hippeis, hippakontistai and thureophoroi.



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  25. #85

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    All units that have been previewed so far are Hellenistic ones. I'm very much looking forward to the day we will se some of the new eastern units. Parthian heavy cataphract... *drewl*

    If we're lucky, there will be some eastern units in the Gaza-campaign, although not cataphracts, maybe. I happen to be more of a heavy cavalry/archer man, myself, you see, and even though I like hellenic infantry a lot, I tend to returm to cavalry-factions again and again.


  26. #86

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    @MP: from my dictionary:
    Code:
     
    logxh : spearhead(s) (pl.)
            : lance, spear
    Arguably the Greeks weren't quite as concerned with precise dictionary-like definitions as we are (we try to make sense of it; to them it made in and of itself perfect sense -- I guess), so there may be a slight misunderstanding. Got to note it is a 'classical' meaning, it might've evolved over time...

    Yet: check out this link as well: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2363784

    Note that this too mentions 'lance'.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 10-01-2008 at 22:15.
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  27. #87

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    @MP: from my dictionary:
    Code:
     
    logxh : spearhead(s) (pl.)
            : lance, spear
    Arguably the Greeks weren't quite as concerned with precise dictionary-like definitions as we are (we try to make sense of it; to them it made in and of itself perfect sense -- I guess), so there may be a slight misunderstanding. Got to note it is a 'classical' meaning, it might've evolved over time...

    Yet: check out this link as well: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...try%3D%2363784

    Note that this too mentions 'lance'.
    The translation of 'lance' is incorrect (as these military terms are often loosely translated), and can also be found in many translations.

    Despite this, it can still be found in LSJ's non-generic definition of the word: II. a lance, spear, javelin, Lat. lancea. However, an examination of the uses of the word, and the fact that it is a cognate with lancea, show that it refers to a light spear. The association with lance seems to be due to that word's etymological links with longche, but is not substantiated in the actual evidence.

  28. #88
    Member Member paullus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    the longche was very likely a dual-use spear at least during the Hellenistic period. eventually the EB2 lonchophoroi may throw 1-2 longche before charging with spear. The problem is, if we do that, the swords have to disappear. In the original creation of the unit, we decided that the sword outweighed the "heavy" javelins. That may be re-evaluated.
    "The mere statement of fact, though it may excite our interest, is of no benefit to us, but when the knowledge of the cause is added, then the study of history becomes fruitful." -Polybios


  29. #89

    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Can you tell exactly how many settlements will be on the "The Gaza Campaign" campaign map?


  30. #90
    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement: The Gaza Campaign

    Details on the Gaza Campaign will be forthcoming but currently we are still working on the details.

    Foot
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