Who Won the First Presidential Debate?

[Divinus Arma]

McCain?
Obama?

[seireikhaan]

Obama on a teency margin.

[Marshal Murat]

I think McCain won.

While I've been told his arguments were shallow and Bush-esque, it did seem more effective than Barack Obama. By the end of the argument, he came off as someone who bashes Bush (fairly) and Republicans rather than addressing the situation.

[ICantSpellDawg]

McCain. I waited with bated breath and wasn't stressed by the end.

[Koga No Goshi]

I'm a Democrat but I'll admit John McCain REALLY behaved himself, you could tell he was heavily vetted and he had no big irritable outbursts and moments of sheer stupidity that you can find all over Youtube from his various interviews.

But I do think it went Obama, for two reasons. One, McCain diverged from Bush on nothing of any substance whatsoever. He admitted the "mistakes" of the Bush Administration many times but apparently the solution to that is just keep the same economic AND foreign policies. I'm not sure how that constitutes good answers to how he would do things differently or do things better. Two, he incessantly ascribed false or misplaced quotes to Obama (he did the same thing when he referred to Akmedinijad saying "wipe Israel off the map" in his "most recent interview", which he didn't do) and Obama just stuck to the facts. (Note McCain grumbled a few times when Obama was quoting him, but never said "I didn't say that" or "that's untrue.") You kinda lose points automatically in my book if your "argument" rests on false assertions about the other guy's stances.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Voted tie, in that they both performed equally well.

[Lemur]

Tie. No obvious winner or loser. No major gaffes by either man.

[PanzerJaeger]

McCain. I was pleasantly surprised. I guess Barry needs more than 3 days prep work to catch him... experience counts for something.

[Kadagar_AV]

Oh how I wish jed Bartlet was a real life person...

This made me laugh, and made me sad, cause it was all so true.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This was my favourite from that text...

OBAMA I’m interested in your advice.

BARTLET I can’t give it to you.

OBAMA Why not?

BARTLET I’m supporting McCain.

OBAMA Why?

BARTLET He’s promised to eradicate evil and that was always on my “to do” list.

[Banquo's Ghost]

That was very funny indeed.

Because the idea of American exceptionalism doesn’t extend to Americans being exceptional. If you excelled academically and are able to casually use 690 SAT words then you might as well have the press shoot video of you giving the finger to the Statue of Liberty while the Dixie Chicks sing the University of the Taliban fight song. The people who want English to be the official language of the United States are uncomfortable with their leaders being fluent in it.

Oh, and I thought Senator McCain marginally came out ahead, but only on style. Substance was lacking for both, and that continually worries me. It was a reasonably good debate though.

[CountArach]

Hehe, I love Sorkin.

I might as well copy/paste this from the Election thread:
CNN Poll on Debate

Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%

Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think Barack Obama or John McCain would better handle each of the following issues:
• The war in Iraq: Obama 52%, McCain 47%
• Terrorism: McCain 49%, Obama 45%
• The economy: Obama 58%, McCain 37%
• The current financial crisis: Obama 54%, McCain 36%

Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described Barack Obama or John McCain during tonight's debate:
• Was more intelligent: Obama 55%, McCain 30%
• Expressed his views more clearly: Obama 53%, McCain 36%
• Spent more time attacking his opponent: McCain 60%, Obama 23%
• Was more sincere and authentic: Obama 46%, McCain 38%
• Seemed to be the stronger leader: Obama 49%, McCain 43%
• Was more likeable: Obama 61%, McCain 26%
• Was more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you: Obama 62%, McCain 32%

CBS News poll of Uncommited Voters

CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

Thirty-nine percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-four percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-seven percent saw it as a draw.

Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight. Thirty-two percent said their opinion of McCain got better.

Sixty-six percent of uncommitted voters think Obama would make the right decisions about the economy. Forty-two percent think McCain would.

Forty-eight percent of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. Fifty-six percent think McCain would.

[OverKnight]

People might say this debate wasn't flashy or very quotable, but I liked it. It was an actual debate rather than a rote exchange of buzz words and talking points. I thought Lehrer did a good job drawing them out. This was a lot less cringe worthy than previous Presidential debates.

The candidates were both dodgy on how they would actually pay for their ideas considering the looming budget crisis, but that's not too surprising.

My initial judgement, having reviewed factcheck, is that Obama held his own in foreign policy and won in the economic portion of the debate. Since foreign policy is supposed to be McCain's strong point, I'd consider this a marginal win for Obama.

[KukriKhan]

Obama on a teency margin.

That's how it looked on my TV set, too.

Sadly (for us), neither guy took the risk of trying to paint the rest of america into their 'vision for the future' - in fact, I don't remember much 'vision'-talk at all; just point-counter point, 'let's compare voting records' -type talk. A lot like the discussions we have here, leading to inconclusive results.

[CrossLOPER]

"Everyone is a rogue state supported by Russia." wins again!

[ICantSpellDawg]

Did anyone else count the amount of times Obama said "senator mccain is absolutely right", or some other statement saying roughly the same thing? I lost count at 50. That is a useful tool when you use it sparingly, but use it so repetitively and it sounds like you're voting for him. Hell, I couldn't even say it that many times about McCain and I AM voting for him.

I found an article with a similar sentiment: link


“I think Senator McCain’s absolutely right that we need more responsibility…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused…”

“He’s also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these…requests…”

“John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he’s absolutely right…”

“John is right we have to make cuts…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops and our military families…”

“John — you’re absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right, we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran…”


I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

[m52nickerson]

Did anyone else count the amount of times Obama said "senator mccain is absolutely right", or some other statement saying roughly the same thing? I lost count at 50. That is a useful tool when you use it sparingly, but use it so repetitively and it sounds like you're voting for him. Hell, I couldn't even say it that many times about McCain and I AM voting for him.

I found an article with a similar sentiment: link


“I think Senator McCain’s absolutely right that we need more responsibility…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused…”

“He’s also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these…requests…”

“John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he’s absolutely right…”

“John is right we have to make cuts…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops and our military families…”

“John — you’re absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right, we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran…”


I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

McCain doesn't get it on his tax plan or health care plan, or over all. Obama agreed with him on single points he got right. In many of those responses Obama went on to show how McCain had gone against his own statements or added that there was more to it.

I still want to know why McCain would not look at Obama?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I still want to know why McCain would not look at Obama?

Yea, I didn't like that. Obama made initially awkward attempts to look at him, because he was made fun of for not looking at Hillary - and then did it without the awkwardness.

[woad&fangs]

I think it is rather telling that in a debate on foreign policy McCain was obnoxious, flexible with the truth, ignored Obama except to attack him, and continued to paint an "us vs them" outlook on the world. That's not the kind of person I want conducting diplomacy with world leaders.

That "preconditions/preperations" semantics argument was really annoying. Obama clarified his stance for McCain several times but McCain still kept insisting that Obama was going to "have a tea party" with A-jad, Chavez, and Putin.

I didn't watch the economics portion of the debate so I'm not sure who did better at that.

All that being said, it was a fairly even debate with Obama being slightly better on substance. McCain definately did a good job presenting himself as the experienced candidate.

One last thing, McCain was very moving and inspiring when talking about taking care of veterans.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think it is rather telling that in a debate on foreign policy McCain was obnoxious, flexible with the truth, ignored Obama except to attack him, and continued to paint an "us vs them" outlook on the world. That's not the kind of person I want conducting diplomacy with world leaders.

That "preconditions/preperations" semantics argument was really annoying. Obama clarified his stance for McCain several times but McCain still kept insisting that Obama was going to "have a tea party" with A-jad, Chavez, and Putin.

I didn't watch the economics portion of the debate so I'm not sure who did better at that.

All that being said, it was a fairly even debate with Obama being slightly better on substance. McCain definately did a good job presenting himself as the experienced candidate.

One last thing, McCain was very moving and inspiring when talking about taking care of veterans.

The reality is that their positions on foreign policy are not very different. The arguments are largely semantic. I trust McCain's FP judgment more because he wasn't a state senator 4 years ago, was active in the Navy, has a better understanding of logistics, and has made sound decisions in the past. Obama's decision not to go into Iraq was technically the right decision, but it wasn't based on foreign intelligence - rather the idea that even if they had the programs they were not priority. A stopped clock is right twice a day. With experience I think Obama has the right outlook of foreign policy. I would probably vote for him 10 years from now after his stance on abortion becomes softer and he gets a bit more experience.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

You would be absolutely right to say that

[Lemur]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

-edit-

Also note that McCain couldn't bear to look at Obama even when shaking hands. That's just weird, man.

One possible explanation: "I think people really are missing the point about McCain's failure to look at Obama. McCain was afraid of Obama. It was really clear--look at how much McCain blinked in the first half hour. I study monkey behavior--low ranking monkeys don't look at high ranking monkeys. In a physical, instinctive sense, Obama owned McCain tonight and I think the instant polling reflects that."

I'm naturally inclined to agree with any sentence that contains the word "monkey."

[Redleg]

I listen to parts of it on the radio as I was able to - had to get a train off the ground during the debate. I would say from what I heard on the radio that McCain handled himself just marginally better then Obama. The bits I was able to hear, Obama wanted to interupt McCain several times to "Clear the Record"

But as I said I only heard about 10 minutes of the debate so I dont know how the rest of it went

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

I figured he'd get a bump in "prepared to be president" but the other is a nice surprise--I figured people already knew that

[ICantSpellDawg]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

Go with your first impulse. If you feel it was a draw, it was probably a draw. Pollsters love to inject things in that might not otherwise exist. Ask your friends what they thought. I think Obama will win the election outright. It would be pathetic if he didn't - maybe even more so than Kerry's loss.

[m52nickerson]

I listen to parts of it on the radio as I was able to - had to get a train off the ground during the debate. I would say from what I heard on the radio that McCain handled himself just marginally better then Obama. The bits I was able to hear, Obama wanted to interupt McCain several times to "Clear the Record"

But as I said I only heard about 10 minutes of the debate so I dont know how the rest of it went

Red that is to bad, it was a good debate. I hope you get a chance to see it as a whole.

[Gregoshi]

I only heard what I guess were the closing remarks (last 5-10 minutes) on the radio. From what I heard, I liked the vibe I was getting from Obama. He seemed more consiliatory while McCain came off as combative. I did not like McCain's attitude at all. If he's going to get anything accomplished as President, he's going to have to learn how to work with a Democratic congress. A combative nature isn't going to help this country. We've already had 16 years (Clinton/Bush) of extreme divisiveness, and I tire of it. Not looking at your opponent during the debate? That's just childish. How about a little cooperation ladies and gentlemen? Country first and all that. Anyway, that's my take based on less than 10 minutes of debate audio. Now to track down the whole debate to watch/listen.

Oh, one final comment: it is a bit refreshing this election that at least I don't detest either candidate.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I only heard what I guess were the closing remarks (last 5-10 minutes) on the radio. From what I heard, I liked the vibe I was getting from Obama. He seemed more consiliatory while McCain came off as combative. I did not like McCain's attitude at all. If he's going to get anything accomplished as President, he's going to have to learn how to work with a Democratic congress. A combative nature isn't going to help this country. We've already had 16 years (Clinton/Bush) of extreme divisiveness, and I tire of it. Not looking at your opponent during the debate? That's just childish. How about a little cooperation ladies and gentlemen? Country first and all that.

This is why the charge of "obama agreed with McCain too much" is silly--you can't be bipartisan without finding things you agree on

[Big_John]

i thought it was obama's fairly easily. i had no expectations about performances going in. mccain was mainly condescending and blustery (which plays well for some, i imagine), obama was mainly even-keeled and agreeable (not deferential, mind you). obama made better use of specifics. obama seemed more 'presidential'.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If I may, I would like to re-emphasise KukriKhan's point about smileys made in another thread.

I'm assuming, because it's Lemur, that this comment was made in jest. Yet let us reflect what mayhem would have ensued had a similar monkey allusion been made with regard to Senator Obama.

Without any smiley this triggered the Itchy Mod Finger* to which my esteemed colleague referred earlier.

Please can we get into the habit of adding smileys to comments that might be misinterpreted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* I know, but it is treatable with drugs and alcohol.

Well, lemur's are monkeys right? Or did I read that wrong...

[CrossLOPER]

Well, lemur's are monkeys right? Or did I read that wrong...

Primates.