Heavy infantry

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

Hail

Could someone, please, tell me which is the best heavy infantry in EB. i believe it´s the roman legions after Marian. Thanks

[Zradha Pahlavan]

Not sure, but from my expierience Seleucid Thorakitai are pretty damn tough. It depends on a lot on how you intend to use these infantry.

[Strategos Alexandros]

Legionaries are definitely not the best heavy infantry. What sort of heavy infantry do you want to know about? Line infantry or shock troops?

[tls5669]

The Gaesatae, both gaulish factions get access to this unit, of course their Solduros units are pretty good too.

Cordinau Orca, a lot of factions can recruit this unit form Singidunum.

Elite Thracian infantry and Indian guild warriors, both basically the same unit but with kick ass AP 2 handers.

Dubosaverlacica, and Ordmalica, both recruitable in Ivernis by several factions.

Thorakitai, the games tank, recruitable by AS.

Lusotannan have a couple, the Dosidataskeli, the games other true tank, and the Ambakaro.

Germanic heavy infantry, their stats arent all that impressive, but fully upgraded they can have the highest attack in game.

KH gets the greek heavy hoplite and the Spartan hoplite, very good units in their own right, Spartans are better killers of the two.

And of course, im biased towards Carthage, so I think the best infantry unit is The Sacred Band Infantry.

[Connacht]

According to stats, the best HI in EB should be Cordinau Orca (Scordisci elite infantry), recruitable only in a settlement between Illyria and Dacia (I don't remember the name, sorry). Correct me if I am wrong.

However, many other soldiers are still impressive, like Indian Guild Warriors or the Ambakaros.

but fully upgraded they can have the highest attack in game.

Hmmm, this can be possible only if German heavy infantry can get more attack points than other units by upgrading them, but I never noticed that.
Otherwise even with 3 gold chevrons and the sword upgrade they would surely become tanks, but still inferior to stronger units also with the maximum level of chevrons.

Other units quoted by tls5669 are not labelled as heavy infantry in game but as spearmen, however I agree that many guys like Thorakitai Agematou Basilikou ("Thorakitai and nothing else in the name" are other lighter units) or Dubosaverlacica are probably the best footmen in EB - after the Vasci Shock Troops that should have the best stats in the game for a foot soldier if I am not wrong.
Greek noble hoplites and Spartans are pretty nice friends too.

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

Legionaries are definitely not the best heavy infantry. What sort of heavy infantry do you want to know about? Line infantry or shock troops?

Line infantry
But arent´t the legionaries supposed to be the best heavy infantry in the game as they certainly were in real life.

[Hax]

But arent´t the legionaries supposed to be the best heavy infantry in the game as they certainly were in real life.

No, they weren't. There were better soldiers around.

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

What about the praetorians. I´ve heard they´re the best line heavy infantry in EB.

[Centurion Crastinus]

The Gaesatae are pretty damn tough. Plus they are naked which would be extra intimidating I think.

[Ludens]

The Cohors Reformata and Imperatoria are arguably the best regular infantry. They are flexible, well-armed and armoured, good morale, good unit size, widely available and not very expensive. But they certainly are not the best infantry of any kind, and they weren't historically. Just because the Romans generally won battles doesn't mean that their standard infantry could defeat the elites of other nations.

In fact, you might even say EB's reformata are too strong. When well trained and well led they were formidable fighters, but historically this did not always happen. During the Roman civil war, army formations were often hastily raised and performed poorly. EB's assumes that all legionaries were well prepared.

As elites go, I find Praetorians somewhat undistinguished. They don't perform that much better ordinary legionaries and they lack the specialization of other nation's elites. However, since the standard post-Marian infantry is so good, you don't need your elites to be exceptionel. For line-infantry, I think you can't beat phalanxes: a line of Argyraspidai or Macedonian reformed Pezhetairoi is almost invincible, provided you guard your flanks and rear. If you want something more flexible and less specialized however, Roman infantry is a good choice.

BTW, the Dubosaverlacica, Ordmalica and Dosidataskeli that tsl5669 mentioned are not recruitable anymore. They can only be seen in custom battles and MP.

[Cullhwch]

Are the Seleucid tanks still recruitable? I didn't see ANY of them when I killed their empire with the Aedui. OTOH, they most certainly used LOTS of Hypaspistai and Peltastai Makedonikoi.

Oh, and any sort of armored longsword infantry is generally VERY powerful. Fighting Hypaspistai and Solduros becomes an absolute nightmare after you remove their less lethal spear attacks. For even more fun you can switch your Gallic faction's (give Gaul a try) Solduros skin with that of the Eleutheroi. It's just too pretty.

This


turns into this handsome creature

[tls5669]

The Cohors Reformata and Imperatoria are arguably the best regular infantry. They are flexible, well-armed and armoured, good morale, good unit size, widely available and not very expensive. But they certainly are not the best infantry of any kind, and they weren't historically. Just because the Romans generally won battles doesn't mean that their standard infantry could defeat the elites of other nations.

In fact, you might even say EB's reformata are too strong. When well trained and well led they were formidable fighters, but historically this did not always happen. During the Roman civil war, army formations were often hastily raised and performed poorly. EB's assumes that all legionaries were well prepared.

As elites go, I find Praetorians somewhat undistinguished. They don't perform that much better ordinary legionaries and they lack the specialization of other nation's elites. However, since the standard post-Marian infantry is so good, you don't need your elites to be exceptionel. For line-infantry, I think you can't beat phalanxes: a line of Argyraspidai or Macedonian reformed Pezhetairoi is almost invincible, provided you guard your flanks and rear. If you want something more flexible and less specialized however, Roman infantry is a good choice.

BTW, the Dubosaverlacica, Ordmalica and Dosidataskeli that tsl5669 mentioned are not recruitable anymore. They can only be seen in custom battles and MP.

Hmmm thats funny, I use those units, but I still have 1.0 on my machine. Even with 1.1 they could still be hacked into the game. 1.0 runs great on my machine, its modded heavily, and im too lazy to install 1.1, just for a few more units and tweaks.

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

The roman legions are the most organized and disciplined heavy infantry of their time and because of that i think they´re also the best heavy infantry, i know they were not as armoured or as individually skilled as some of the elites.
As for the phalanks, i think there´s one problem with them, i know the EB team can´t do anything to correct this, and it´s their hability to reform after a flank or rear attack. But, perhaps in EB II something can be done since CA removed the lethality witch in turn, i believe, allowed the phanlanks to reform.

[Olaf The Great]

Heavy Line Infantry-Elite African Swordsman
Heavy Elite Infantry-Stat-Wise You'd think Solduros or Cordinau units would win, however the Germanic Variant of these, while having slightly lower defensive stats, have 3 things going for them.
1-Mercenary use-Even in early times you can recruit these as the Sweboz as Mercenaries, then upgrade (And retrain!) in cites.
2-Heavy hitting-Their good lethality swords and spears have an added bonus, they're the only unit(Except Casse?) that can get Tier 3 weapons(gold). Also, along all other Germanic core units, they can get up to 4/5 experience immediately after being trained.
Unfortunately the Bodyguard version cannot get 2 extra attack.
3-Stamina and Morale-Unlike most elites which suffer from low stamina, they have very good stamina and very high morale, I've never seen these guys rout, ever.

Heavy Spearmen-Any of the three Man-tank units, obviously

Shock Infantry-Okay hands down, ANY of the two handed units can chop up a battlefield single handedly. They can slaughter Levies, eviserate cavalry, F-Up other elites, and such.
A few shout-outs...

Kluddae Lugii-If you're sweboz you can get an easy 4/5 chervons out of these guys, and they also have battle standards for morale, pair these with Hearthmen and you're unstoppable. (20 attack straight from trained...oh my. (British are slightly better versions of these guys, but because they're not Sweboz they don't get extra chervons) Both units are Beautiful.
Bastarne and Drapania-Yes these are the lowest tier Two handed swordsmen.The epitome of "Glass cannon" Against infantry heavy army these guys can make up your entire force, they're 40 man units(only 2handers like that) and cheap.

[Cullhwch]

Yeah, I've had a unit of Drapanai take on Hypaspistai and kill 1:1. Uphill. They're nasty.

[chenkai11]

As for the phalanks, i think there´s one problem with them, i know the EB team can´t do anything to correct this, and it´s their hability to reform after a flank or rear attack. But, perhaps in EB II something can be done since CA removed the lethality witch in turn, i believe, allowed the phanlanks to reform.

What do mean by that? Reforming after the phalanx attacked or being attacked?

[Cambyses]

Im not sure whether you mean the best HI that you can recruit in EB or which were actually the best troops in that time frame?

Either way it surely isnt the Roman post Marians on a man vs man basis, as the conditioning and culture of those men just doesnt match up with what some of their rivals could accomplish.

Whether the Romani were the faction able to field the "best army" overall is another question entirely however. And one I wont even attempt to answer :)

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

What do mean by that? Reforming after the phalanx attacked or being attacked?

Being attacked

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

Im not sure whether you mean the best HI that you can recruit in EB or which were actually the best troops in that time frame?

Either way it surely isnt the Roman post Marians on a man vs man basis, as the conditioning and culture of those men just doesnt match up with what some of their rivals could accomplish.

Whether the Romani were the faction able to field the "best army" overall is another question entirely however. And one I wont even attempt to answer :)

Best troops in that time frame.
Post Marians were extremely hardened man that lived to fight. And i think that they were not as well equiped as some elites but nobody was just as disciplined as the legions, therefore, i beleive post Marians were the best army avaibable.

[Cambyses]

I will have to disagree with you there Lucio. Because in several of the cultures the Romans were fighting against the elite troops would have been conditioned almost from birth to be warriors. The most famous example of course being *the myth?* that all Spartan children were left exposed on a mountain on the night of their birth, so only the fittest survived. Then attending the military academy that went on from the day they could walk. They did almost nothing at all for the early part of their life that wasnt preparing them for battle. Ok, so thats maybe an extreme case, but many other cultures also had this kind of attitude that the warrior class/caste existed for that purpose alone. In fact in several places, notably India, there was also a religious aspect. These peoples believed they had no other purpose on earth than to be a warrior.

The Romans overcame this as they did not fight so much as individuals as many (although not all) of their rivals, they fought only as a unit, that was their strength and the discipline of their training, IMO precisely because they were well aware they could not compete 1v1 on skill with other elite warriors. These Roman legionnaires would have grown up on farms or running errands on the streets, very very few of them would have had any military training or experience before they joined the army as an adult. With a few months training I refuse to believe they could then overtake the skills and knowledge that a warrior elite - from say Dacia - had spent his whole life developing.

Having said that experienced Roman troops who had seen and survived battle for 15 years would have been able to stand up to anyone, Im sure.

What the Romans did have in their favour was in almost every case better logistics, a larger standing army and a paranoid drive to annihilate any other "rival". They were also very adaptable. In EB's time frame they frequently lost - often badly - at first against an opponent. But due to their tenaciousness and ability to learn how to deal with every circumstance they ended up on the winning side at the end.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I just got carried away.

[Cbvani]

Its an EB loading screen quote - ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. The Roman Legionnaire was a strong dude, certainly, but his strength was the army and discipline, not his uber-training.

On a personal aside, I think post-marian reinlisted veterans should be slightly tougher than they are, given their experience in battle.

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

I agree with both of you Cambyses and Cbvani. I´m sorry i did not make myself clear, for me the roman legions are the best avaibable not for their individual skills, cause as you said there´re warriors trained from birth, but because of their strict discipline and the fact that there´re also very tough man makes them, from my point of view, the best of the bests. As for the experienced roman soldiers i totally agree with you.
Cbvani, i agree with you about the Evocata.

Thanks everyone for your answers.

[Olaf The Great]

In the end I'd "the best" heavy infantry in an "Arena" of sorts would be one of the high-end two-handers

But that's against an infantry heavy army with a lack of missiles, which only the Greeks have.

[Carthaginian General]

In the end I'd "the best" heavy infantry in an "Arena" of sorts would be one of the high-end two-handers

But that's against an infantry heavy army with a lack of missiles, which only the Greeks have.

I've labbed loads of different units, and my conclusion is that Iberian Assault Infantry are the de-facto best Heavy Infantry in the entire game. They are available to Carthage (and no, the Lusotannans don't have them). They've beaten everything I've pitted them against and that includes the Ordmalica (a Lusotannan unit), which have also beaten everything I've pitted them against. In fact, the only units these two lose to are the Tank trio of their fellow Lusotannans and the Arche Seleukeians. The Iberian Assault Infantry managed to kill around 32 of the Lusotannan tanks that sacrificed 1 point of Attack for like 5 points of Defense, putting their stats at around 17 Attack and 38 Defense. Three of these Iberian Assault Infantry units, with silver weapon/shield upgrades and 3 golden chevrons, also managed to defeat twenty units of Spartan Hoplites, with half of their unit strength remaining after the battle (yes, the Spartan hoplites had them completely surrounded before you think I did it piecemeal).

Bottom line is that the Iberian Assault Infantry are batshit insane aliens from Mars. There's nothing they can't handle except units that aren't recruitable in the campaign, and before you mention Late Pahlavan Kataphract Elites, they defeated them as well.

Other very powerful units include: Ordmalica (Lusotanna) and Thracian Elite Infantry. The other elite units are beaten by these two units as far as I know, but they still have their uses, and neither of these two units is particularily durable.

[Cullhwch]

I'm fairly certain that the Iberian Assault Infantry, while good, will get absolutely manhandled by the British, Thracian, and Indian two-handers. It might even have problems against the comparatively lowly Neitos, and certainly won't beat sword-wielding Hypaspistai. Aren't the heavy Iberians nearly identical to the Pedites Extraordinarii?

[Celtic_Punk]

best line infantry- one of the tanks, supported by spartans or classical hoplites(these guys can take on makedonian phalanx's!)

best flexible infantry? hmmmm from what ive had a taste with itd have to be falxmen. the falxmen dont run very easily, and their falx is well.... A FALX >:P superb for hacking limbs and heads off indeed. victim suffers from its deadly AP bonus! OORAH!

then again, in my casse turned Goidlic campaign ive relied on Claddaca alot, and they havent let me down yet. The point is celt heavy infantry is superior to Roman.

The best heavy infantry is too broad a statement to narrow it down to one unit, it must be narrowed down to best heavy infantry for cost effectiveness, or best heavy infantry no budget. not just performance in battle. infact ive found makedonian and epirot elite phalanx's are no match for classical hoplites or spartans.

[Carthaginian General]

I'm fairly certain that the Iberian Assault Infantry, while good, will get absolutely manhandled by the British, Thracian, and Indian two-handers. It might even have problems against the comparatively lowly Neitos, and certainly won't beat sword-wielding Hypaspistai. Aren't the heavy Iberians nearly identical to the Pedites Extraordinarii?

https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/...ltInfantry.jpg
https://i140.photobucket.com/albums/...tInfantry2.jpg

Still don't believe me? And well, don't know.

[Cullhwch]

Interesting. Try running the same tests but with yourself in control of the two-handers. Player controlled units have an odd tendency to win. If you're right once again I'll concede the point without hesitation.

[Carthaginian General]

Interesting. Try running the same tests but with yourself in control of the two-handers. Player controlled units have an odd tendency to win. If you're right once again I'll concede the point without hesitation.

Hadn't noticed that before... Anway, they got their asses kicked by the Thracians, but it came down to a difference in a few men. In other words, it's extremely even but the Thracians win out in the end. I'm fairly confident that if neither side had routed, the Thracians would survive with 3-5 men. If you weaken the Thracians with some missiles before combat, they lose to the Assault Infantry, and it shouldn't be hard.

[Celtic_Punk]

just goes to prove my motto, "Missiles win the battle before it is fought"