Poll Fight!

[Lemur]

Why such a sour puss this morning?

Well, see, I have this fascist southerner who follows me from thread to thread trolling as hard as he dares. He doesn't seem to care about the topics, just exercises a juvenile curiosity about how provocative he can be without getting banned from the forum. He should probably get a hobby or discover girls.

Face it, kid, you don't give a damn about polling methodology and you have no informed opinion on the subject. The only posts you have made in this thread have been pure troll. Something which I'm sure you're quite proud about.

Have you ever considered how embarrassing it must be to have you as a supporter? If I were a Backroom Republican, I'd be backpedaling away from you and your retrograde views as fast as my feet would carry me. Frankly, any G.O.P.-supporting Orgahs out to be dismayed when you weigh in on their side.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Well, see, I have this fascist southerner who follows me from thread to thread trolling as hard as he dares. He doesn't seem to care about the topics, just exercises a juvenile curiosity about how provocative he can be without getting banned from the forum. He should probably get a hobby or discover girls.

Face it, kid, you don't give a damn about polling methodology and you have no informed opinion on the subject. The only posts you have made in this thread have been pure troll. Something which I'm sure you're quite proud about.

Have you ever considered how embarrassing it must be to have you as a supporter? If I were a Backroom Republican, I'd be backpedaling away from you and your retrograde views as fast as my feet would carry me. Frankly, any G.O.P.-supporting Orgahs out to be dismayed when you weigh in on their side.

Terrible. Nobody is embarrassed of PJ. We can't have an in depth knowledge of everything, but arguing about it helps my understanding, for example. I learn best through argument.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Gentlemen,

Let's return to topic rather than discuss personalities.

Thank you kindly.

[PanzerJaeger]

[flirtations..] to return your thread to its topic, I'd urge you to consider that possibility that you may have fallen for some clever marketing.

[PanzerJaeger]

Gentlemen,

Let's return to topic rather than discuss personalities.

Thank you kindly.

Oops. Do you want me to edit that last one..?

[Lemur]

I'd urge you to consider that possibility that you may have fallen for some clever marketing.

The moment you can respond to or even summarize any of the objections made by 538, we can talk.

[PanzerJaeger]

The moment you can respond to or even summarize any of the objections made by 538, we can talk.

It's really difficult to find a bias for McCain as RCP's average has consistently been in line with other major polls and averages. Show me where RCP has differed in any meaningful way from Gallup, Rasmussen, or even 538. They all reflect the same ups and downs for the candidates. Not to mention that by simply clicking on the average, RCP fully discloses the polls that comprise it - so it is not as if they are unusually secretive about their methods.

If 538 seriously believes RCP slants to the right, shouldn't their averages reflect that? That the guy came out almost immediately and altered his original "opinion" only reinforces my suspicion that he was just throwing some red meat out there to cast doubt on RCP. Its pretty much the same strategy cable news has taken. Polarize and divide. Where do you think all the Obama supporters who get word of this story will be going in the future for their polling?

[ICantSpellDawg]

To be honest, and I'm not a pollster - I would take any poll that has not been suspected of cooking numbers (and hopefully, polling organizations with not unreliable numbers in past elections) and combine them by sample size to other applicable polls. I would only use polls with the largest samples, because smaller samples are suspect.

I really don't like the idea of Handicapping results that 538 suggests.

In the end - RCP tells you whose polls they are using, how many participants there were, where the poll was conducted and averages it in to other similar polls... On top of that Obama is taking the cake by a high but responsible and likely number...

I just can't see how they are loading the decks. We will see whose projections were more accurate after the election, i guess.

BTW, Lemur. Read the comments section under Nate Silver's follow-up post. I checked RCP comments section and found an ideologically split clientele. It can be mildly telling as to whom each site caters to, no?

[JAG]

With the people who are so vehmently defending RCP and not knowing the site itself, I can only come to one conclusion....

These are the same people who say Fox isn't biased in the same vehment ways. ^^

[ICantSpellDawg]

With the people who are so vehmently defending RCP and not knowing the site itself, I can only come to one conclusion....

These are the same people who say Fox isn't biased in the same vehment ways. ^^

What are you talking about? Fox is biased to a varying degree. I agree that their message is center-right, with minor exceptions. Fox & friends is a show about pro-McCain talking points. I can see this.

I don't detect any perceivable slant in RCP coverage or polling results. They have Obama leading by an average of 6pts in the popular and here is their latest electoral map. You can clearly see what polls they've included, when they were taken, and the sample size.

They host articles from Estrich, Kruggman, Clift, Dowd, Stephanopoulos, Huffington - and Kristol, Noonan, Fukuyama, Krauthammer, Sowell, Will, Rove.

[Lemur]

That the guy came out almost immediately and altered his original "opinion" only reinforces my suspicion that he was just throwing some red meat out there to cast doubt on RCP.

Yes, I can see how a person adding to, modifying or clarifying his position must strike you as fatal weakness. It may even qualify as "blinking." And we wouldn't want to blink, now would we? We all know what terrorists do when we blink. By all means, let us celebrate fixed certainty and steely determination.

I salute your attempt to seem to be on-topic, however.

They host articles from Estrich, Kruggman, Clift, Dowd, Stephanopoulos, Huffington - and Kristol, Noonan, Fukuyama, Krauthammer, Sowell, Will, Rove.

538 made abundantly clear that they were not talking about editorials, both in articles I linked to and in quotes I pulled out and re-printed here. So this is kinda ... irrelevant ...

In the final analysis, I really did post this for the benefit of CA, an Orgah who actually cares deeply about polls and statistical math. I never imagined it would turn into a rightwing ideological scrum the way it has. To modify JAG's point, it's kinda suspicious that a simple poll-site fight should provoke such a mighty, unified rightwing backlash. It's not like I said something mean about Matt Drudge or Rush Limbaugh.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yes, I can see how a person adding to, modifying or clarifying his position must strike you as fatal weakness. It may even qualify as "blinking." And we wouldn't want to blink, now would we? We all know what terrorists do when we blink. By all means, let us celebrate fixed certainty and steely determination.

You ignore all the substantive points I made for this drivel and somehow I'm the troll?[Not to mention Tuff's attempts to have an on topic discussion with you.] Maybe you're just the consumate victim...

n e ways, kisses boo, until next time!

[ICantSpellDawg]

The true right wing gets most upset when people on the left attack moderate positions as extremist in an attempt to shift the center. That is where most of our frustration comes from.

If you were to attack a right wing position I would argue, but not with an indignant tone. It is when you attack things attempting to ride on the center that I am personally offended. If you were to attack Drudge or Fox as center-right-wing rags I would agree but maybe defend certain articles or its right to exist.

I get most upset when moderates are attacked as extremists because of the people who rally to their defense. It is a false argument. I try to defend people when I believe that they have been wronged, irrespective of ideology or lack of one.

[Lemur]

I try to defend people when I believe that they have been wronged, irrespective of ideology or lack of one.

Fair enough, a noble position to take. I don't believe this is a case of that, but I respect where you're coming from.

You ignore all the substantive points I made

You made none. And you have consistently been incapable of even summarizing what the dispute is about. You're just trolling to troll.

n e ways, kisses boo, until next time!

Back under the bridge, little troll.

[Banquo's Ghost]

To paraphrase the master;

This topic is tired and needs to be put down.