Concert of Europe

[Arjos]

Seems like we can get the Conference going once again then ^^

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Gentlemen!

We agree with what the kind French and Russian diplomats have to say about the Holstein/Schleswig problem. My government is willing to split up Schleswig between my government and the Danish government or if that will not work, then I ask the conference to approve that my Austrian brothers get half of Schleswig if they are willing to have any of it.

On the Balkan position. We think the partition should go ahead as place. Unless France and England plans on going to war to stop Austria and Russia, I doubt any other solution is out there besides this.

The Prussian Government

[Greyblades]

Is there not an honorable gentleman in this conference that has been listening? There is a solution, a very good one: Byzantium.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Is there not an honorable gentleman in this conference that has been listening? There is a solution, a very good one: Byzantium.

Then implement it then kind England.

[Greyblades]

...For that to happen it need's austria and Russia's agreement to get it done because it's them who want to dislodge the ottomans in the first place and thier familiy members who would take over the new state. Might I suggest going over the conference notes.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Well... Why do they not agree yet?

[Kagemusha]

A man enters the conference hall and announces himself to the crowd.

Greetings!

We must urgently inform you that the glorious Emperor Kaiser Ferdinand have abdicated in favor of his grandson, Franz Joseph. The new Kaiser taking office with name Kaiser Franz Joseph I of Austria. Also the beloved foreign minister Prince Klemens Wenzel von Metternich has retired. Appointed by Kaiser Franz Joseph I, I Prince Felix zu Schwarzenberg have assumed the office of minister-president foreign minister of Austria.

As you must understand based on the circumstances.There is lot to do, before Austria can continue this diiscussion. I promise to make my best effort, so the conference can continue as soon as possible and the Austrian views can be accurately given to you gentlemen.

[Kagemusha]

Just a quick question to the British representative. Which would be the extent of the Byzantium Empire, the British Empire is suggesting?

[Greyblades]

Basically this at 1095 + the areas owned by the ottomans in the north and west of the balkans, Cyprus and all the islands in the agean sea.

[Franconicus]

I guess Cyprus is out of the discussion

[Greyblades]

Yeah, no, if I'm willing to fight austria and russia for taking land then I'm sure not letting you keep Cyprus.

[Kagemusha]

Gentlemen.I am sure we can create a compromise. Austria suggests the following:



Greece will get control of the Duchies of Thessaly, Macedon, Epirus, Adrianopol, Thrace, Konstantinopol, Nikae, Samos, Cibyrrhaeot,Ionian Islands, Crete, Dodecanese Islands and Cyprus. With all these Duchies.Austria will not have any objections toward The new Greek Empire holding Byzantine titles. Still they must revoke any claims to any other areas.



In Western and Eastern Balkans. Bosnia and Herzegovina will be included to Croatian crown, which is already under Austrian rule. Kingdom of Serbia will also become part of Austrian Empire.
In Eastern Balkan. Russian Bessarabia will be joined with other principalities of Wallachia under Russian rule. South from it a Bulgarian Kingdom will be formed under Russian Empires rule.

Would this be satisfactory to all the parties involved?

[Arjos]

OoC: custom CKII maps, brilliant! :D

[Greyblades]

Replace greece with Byzantium and stick the two royals I mentioned earlier on the throne to avoid some of the "greece has no rightful claim to the rest of the balkans" rebellions and I'll go along with it.

[Kagemusha]

As we said earlier.We would like to leave to Greek discretion, to what they would like their empire be called. We are fairly certain that they will not have anything against the suggestion the British representative used.

In any case is that not more or less semantics? If so we are happy to greet the British insight and will to compromise.

[Greyblades]

...Who said anything about giving the greeks the area? We have a decendant of the byzantium emperors and a decendant of the capet family who owned it during one of the crusades. We put them on the throne and we not only get christian control over the area but promote the rightful rulers, which should discourage the majority of rebellions. Read post 1201 for the whole thing.

[Kagemusha]

That proposal we cant accept.Empire without any kind of power base is no empire. It would only be an artificial structure, which would only survive by eating the resources of the members of the Concert.During these times of nationalistic turmoil.We cant afford to weaken ourselves. Thus The British proposal is unacceptable.

[Arjos]

Besides gentlemen, are we really taking seriously this "byzantine" line? Basically every single noble house in Europe has some distant ancestor related to the Roman Emperor's house. Russia does not abandon its orthodox brothers, at the Convention of London the Concert already set about freeing the Greeks: we intent to accomplish fully that mandate.
Therefore Russia welcomes this resolution. Although if a greek Constantinople is so problematic, we equally support to preserve Ottoman rule there, provided the Sultan finally submits to the Concert.

Admiral Putyatin

[Greyblades]

That proposal we cant accept.Empire without any kind of power base is no empire. It would only be an artificial structure, which would only survive by eating the resources of the members of the Concert.During these times of nationalistic turmoil.We cant afford to weaken ourselves. Thus The British proposal is unacceptable.

Why should it be an artificial structure?
The area is not desolate, the people likely would be supportive of a chhristian state and with the right organization and support we could make the new nation self sufficient within 5 years.
As for resources I would point out that an occupation by austria and russia would cost the same amount of resources as setting up a new regime, if not more, and the weight would be taken only by those two nations.
Your alternative of using Greece's power base is even less viable as it is much too small to take effective control of the region without concert support and due to the perception of the greek king being an outside invader by the non greek occupants of the region it would likely result in endless rebellions that would offset whatever savings the concert could make from exploiting such a meagre pre existing powerbase

[Kagemusha]

Good sir and which ethnicity are most of the Southern Balkan Christians? How can it be more expensive to bring stability to area without Greek support then with it?

[Greyblades]

Besides gentlemen, are we really taking seriously this "byzantine" line? Basically every single noble house in Europe has some distant ancestor related to the Roman Emperor's house.

Yes and I proposed to put direct relations to Austria and Russia's monarchs on the throne on a whim.[/sarcasm]
Their bloodline is important as to make the people of the balkans think it's thier old masters return, the idea is to put off thoughts of rebellion due to legitimacy.
Why I brought up those two in particular is so that both austria and russia would meet some of thier war goals, a russian/austrian nation in charge of the area, as far as I can see the tzar is only refusing because it won't be him in charge.

[Greyblades]

Good sir and which ethnicity are most of the Southern Balkan Christians?

Enough of them are Macedonians and albanians, they might not be the majority but as Britain has encountered countless times in india it does not require a majority to cause obscene damage. Byzantium would appease all but the turks.

How can it be more expensive to bring stability to area without Greek support then with it?

Well for one Britain wont be footing the bills, have fun with that.

If you go with the greek option Britain won't stop you but will mostly stay out of the war and the rebuilding. Go with byzantium and you get our help as well as a stop to weapon shipments into Turkey.

[Arjos]

We have explained ad nauseam the succession concerns. And need I point out that the British emissary keeps on refusing an Austro-Russian partition (shared by the rest of the Concert), while proposing an Austro-Russian regime? As the honorable Austrian diplomat pointed out, this is a greek kingdom we are talking about and the Concert has created such kingdom already: Basileus Othon will rule it.

Well for one Britain wont be footing the bills, have fun with that.

Britain should stop behaving so selfishly, enjoying the Concert membership benefits, but refusing to share its burdens. Are we to consider a reorganization of such memberships?

[Greyblades]

We have explained ad nauseam the succession concerns. And need I point out that the British emissary keeps on refusing an Austro-Russian partition, while proposing an Austro-Russian regime?

Indeed, we'll accept an Austro-Russian regime, just not your Austro-Russian regime. We trust his sister more than we trust the Tzar with the area.

Britain should stop behaving so selfishly, enjoying the Concert membership benefits, but refusing to share its burdens. Are we to consider a reorganization of such memberships?

Accusations of selfishness from the man who wanted the east balkans for himself, The irony is palpable. And considering the rest of the concert tried to leave me out of the very first concert debate of my tenure I am finding it hard to see of what benefits you are talking.

[Arjos]

The Imperial daughter's future is for the Czar and her family to deliberate.

What selfishness? Freeing the Christians and assuring a stable polity? Should we sell weapons to the enemies of those we promised to help then?

[Greyblades]

The Imperial daughter's future is for the Czar and her family to deliberate.

OOC: My apologies, I was honestly unsure of which one it was, seeing I'm not exactly sure whether the Tzar I'm talking to is the same one as the one in 1820.

What selfishness? Freeing the Christians and assuring a stable polity?

Were that true you would have asked Britain for help like last time, and considering when I showed you an alternative that would have the same result just without your dominion you have constantly refused to consider it, I find your stated goals questionable.

Should we sell weapons to the enemies of those we promised to help then?

I'm sorry, are the greeks at war with the ottomans? No? Then I can't see what enemies of those we promised to help you are talking about. I certainly didn't make a promise to help you in your expansion and I have yet to see any greek uprisings, so they don't seem to be enemies of the ottomans currently.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Prussia stands by our earlier statement. With rebellions facing us in our homelands and in nearby Poland, Prussia will not be intervening in Turkey in the near future. However, if we must intervene on a side.... we shall do so.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

When is the deadline by the way?

[Arjos]

Were that true you would have asked Britain for help like last time

His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai urges the Balkans to rise up, by the Grace of God, Russia will remove the Turks from Europe. Let all true Christians join this most righteous war!

Czar Nikolai

All members understood the message, are the British not Christians perhaps?

I'm sorry, are the greeks at war with the ottomans?

What was Cyprus? Allied forces are joining, soon as a line of communication and supply is established, Othon should take the field aswell...

[Greyblades]

All members understood the message, are the British not Christians perhaps?

Our soldiers died as you ran away 20 years ago, and you're surprised a vague call to war issued to all of christendom wouldn't entice us to have another go?

What was Cyprus? Allied forces are joining, soon as a line of communication and supply is established, Othon should take the field aswell...

If othon wants to attack those he knows are supplied by Britain that is his perogative, Britain promised to make sure his country keeps existing as an independant nation not to make up for his recklessness, especially considering at this rate he is likely to get a large chunk of land even if he does nothing.