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Thread: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

  1. #61
    Not your friend Member General Appo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by abou View Post
    Sure, ludwag. Start compiling information then - especially on the unshaven part.
    Indeed. Seriously, do you have any reason why the Legionaries should be unshaven except that you think it would look cool? `Cause you know, I think the Arcani looked kinda cool, so maybe we should use those too.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by General Appo View Post
    Indeed. Seriously, do you have any reason why the Legionaries should be unshaven except that you think it would look cool? `Cause you know, I think the Arcani looked kinda cool, so maybe we should use those too.
    No no no! Arcani was not cool! Arcani in LS would be cool, though!

  3. #63

    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by General Appo View Post
    Indeed. Seriously, do you have any reason why the Legionaries should be unshaven except that you think it would look cool? `Cause you know, I think the Arcani looked kinda cool, so maybe we should use those too.
    If you get Arcani I want gastraphetes [/spam]
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  4. #64
    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by General Appo View Post
    Indeed. Seriously, do you have any reason why the Legionaries should be unshaven except that you think it would look cool?
    becouse they diddnt shave every morning
    Last edited by ludwag; 11-02-2008 at 00:35.

  5. #65
    Not your friend Member General Appo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Show me the proof.
    The Appomination

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  6. #66
    Member Member ljperreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    I like the Imperial Gallic Type A helmet: http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/compone...d,1/Itemid,96/ (orignal) and http://legvi.tripod.com/armamentarium/id254.html (Deepeeka reproduction). The Gallic A is the next helmet Im going to buy (but I havent told my wife yet). I currently own an Imperial Gallic type C made by Deepeka: http://legvi.tripod.com/armamentarium/id211.html, which I also like very much. The Gallic A was used during the late 1st century BC to early 1st century AD, and I think it would be neat to see this one in the game.

    I think Ive seen sculptures of Praetorian guardsmen wearing a short goatee type beard, but only once or twice. For the most part I would think that the Legonaries would be clean shaven, being a part of a professional and well trained elite fighting force. But thats just me.
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    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    I am not saying they had beard, but they diddnt have time every morning to shave 5000 men before starting the new days marsh. I think I can find some proof.

  8. #68
    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    I think Argyraspidai Phalangites would look really cool and stylish with sunglasses! And the cataphrakts, you've got to have them smoking a cigarillo like Clint Eastwood in "For A Fistful of Dollars"!! That would look totally cool and awesome!!
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  9. #69

    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by ludwag View Post
    I am not saying they had beard, but they diddnt have time every morning to shave 5000 men before starting the new days marsh. I think I can find some proof.
    It's not like there was one regimental beard-shaver. Every dude could shave on his own.

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    Pharaoh Member Majd il-Romani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    well, first of all lets remember that this is M2, not RTW, so since we have the whole variable-skin thing, some soldiers in the century can be shaved and some can be bearded because they didnt have time to shave that morning. Same with the different types of helmets (even though I think imperial gallic looks better)
    "An army of Sheep led by a Lion will always defeat an army of Lions led by a Sheep"
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    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleemonex View Post
    It's not like there was one regimental beard-shaver. Every dude could shave on his own.

    -Glee
    Shaving is really hard, becouse they only had a knife. To get shaved they had to go to a shaver.

    And before a battle they used to stand ready for a long time, away from the camp. sometimes days. And when the battle was going to begin they stood up in formation for many hours.

  12. #72
    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Real men shave themselves with their gladius or a sharp rock.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreek View Post
    "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise..."
    <-- My "From Basileion to Arche - A Makedonian AAR" Memorial Balloon.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    This is a thought about the Lorica Segmentata..

    After I saw some of the videos about reenactors wearing their LS I had this thought. One really good reason for wearing LS could be the psychological effect it might of had on enemy.
    I mean, before the battle they used to keep their large shields in front of them so that the enemy saw only the shield and man wearing LS. And you all must say that LS looks impressive! It looks like nothing can go through it. So, why to fight the enemy who have large shields, armor that looks impenetrable and can bring their soldiers again and again against you? Better accept the Roman terms and be his servant than fighting in the open field against them and die.

    What I want to say is that Lorica Hamata looked just like any other armor in those times but LS looked something entirely different.

  14. #74
    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by machinor View Post
    Real men shave themselves with their gladius or a sharp rock.
    then they probably should have some scars. I hope someone get my point

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    I is da bestest at grammar Member Strategos Alexandros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    - my first balloon, from Mouzafphaerre
    - LS balloon

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    Member Member theoldbelgian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    actually I don't know if it was forbidden butt legionaries had no freaking beards
    it says so in a text about some Gallic legionaries after the Battle of canea that they were fired from service and allowed to return home it also says so that some of them let their beards grow back like they were before

  17. #77
    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    I am not talking about beards. But beeing unshaved

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    Member Member ljperreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by theoldbelgian View Post
    actually I don't know if it was forbidden butt legionaries had no freaking beards


    Well, I think these pics I posted finalize the matter. The first pic is early Roman. The rest are mid to late 1st Century AD, except for the fourth one which is Marcus Aurelius (late 2nd century AD). The second pic has the Legionary who is recieving medical aid wearing a beard (its kinda hard to see). Notice that beards are worn by some and not by others, suggesting personal choice. Also the hair is not worn long, but not short like modern military either.
    Marines never die, they just go to hell and re-group.

  19. #79
    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    But thats only pictures. That is not reallity. And the question is not if they should have beard or not, but if they should be perfectly shaved for every battle. I dont understand why so many want to discuss it.
    Last edited by ludwag; 11-03-2008 at 11:10.

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    EBII Mod Leader Member Foot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Ludwag, I really don't know why you've made such a big freaking deal about it. Or why you seem hell-bent on focusing entirely on the romans as the only ones who could have grown stubble whilst standing in formation. I'll tell you what I'll do I'll make sure that every face in EBII has just enough stubble to make you squeal with delight. Sound good, huh?

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  21. #81

    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    Ludwag, I really don't know why you've made such a big freaking deal about it. Or why you seem hell-bent on focusing entirely on the romans as the only ones who could have grown stubble whilst standing in formation. I'll tell you what I'll do I'll make sure that every face in EBII has just enough stubble to make you squeal with delight. Sound good, huh?

    Foot
    Ouch, a little harsh there?


  22. #82
    Member Member ljperreira's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by ludwag View Post
    But thats only pictures. That is not reallity. And the question is not if they should have beard or not, but if they should be perfectly shaved for every battle. I dont understand why so many want to discuss it.
    Geez, relax dude. First of all, my post wasn't directed at you, but the guy who calls himself "theoldbelgian", since he was so adament that Legionaries wore no beards. Look at the quoted statement and you'll see for yourself. And if anything, I was supporting your stance on Legionaries not having to be clean shaven, because those pictures show some of them wearing beards. And that would suggest that the rules were a bit relaxed on the matter.
    You're right, those are just pictures. But pictures of carvings and sculptures made during the time period in question. I'm pretty sure those folks who lived there at that time know a little better than us how the Legionaries looked. They are also one of the best resources for Historians. This is not always the case, but many Roman Histories were written two or three centuries after the fact, making the accuracy of the information a bit questionable. Carvings and sculptures like "Trajans Column" and the "Adamklissi Monument" help historians to cross reference and substantiate each other and the written histories (or discredit them). Taken as a whole (along with any archaeological evidence found) modern historians can find a middle ground in which to agree on any given subject, as in our case: "were Roman Legionaries clean shaven?".
    Marines never die, they just go to hell and re-group.

  23. #83
    Member Member ludwag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Foot View Post
    Ludwag, I really don't know why you've made such a big freaking deal about it. Or why you seem hell-bent on focusing entirely on the romans as the only ones who could have grown stubble whilst standing in formation. I'll tell you what I'll do I'll make sure that every face in EBII has just enough stubble to make you squeal with delight. Sound good, huh?

    Foot
    woow, but yeah! And I diddnt focus entirely on the romans as the only ones who could have grown stubble, but my point was that the romans had to look more tough. But yeah, I am very gald I will check the dictionary what squel means, but I am looking forvard to it, becouse it sounds good. btw, look what I found when I google stubble to find out what that means: http://www.dphotojournal.com/photosh...to-a-portrait/

    ljiperreira: The wuestion is "did they have beard?" But I think they should be without beard. But something we do know is that if they diddnt have beards, they shaved, but they could be 100% clean shaved all the time.
    Last edited by ludwag; 11-04-2008 at 19:19.

  24. #84
    EB Nitpicker Member oudysseos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    You're not seriously spending this much time thinking about ancient beards?
    οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
    Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
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  25. #85
    Member Member theoldbelgian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by ljperreira View Post
    Geez, relax dude. First of all, my post wasn't directed at you, but the guy who calls himself "theoldbelgian", since he was so adament that Legionaries wore no beards. Look at the quoted statement and you'll see for yourself. And if anything, I was supporting your stance on Legionaries not having to be clean shaven, because those pictures show some of them wearing beards. And that would suggest that the rules were a bit relaxed on the matter.
    You're right, those are just pictures. But pictures of carvings and sculptures made during the time period in question. I'm pretty sure those folks who lived there at that time know a little better than us how the Legionaries looked. They are also one of the best resources for Historians. This is not always the case, but many Roman Histories were written two or three centuries after the fact, making the accuracy of the information a bit questionable. Carvings and sculptures like "Trajans Column" and the "Adamklissi Monument" help historians to cross reference and substantiate each other and the written histories (or discredit them). Taken as a whole (along with any archaeological evidence found) modern historians can find a middle ground in which to agree on any given subject, as in our case: "were Roman Legionaries clean shaven?".
    ok now that I have seen the picture, I see that I am wrong
    appologies for unintentionally spreading false information to everyone

  26. #86
    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    You're not seriously spending this much time thinking about ancient beards?
    It's funny, isn't it? I mean, why just the Romans? Why not suggest any other faction or cultural group?

  27. #87
    Prefect of Judea (former) Member Pontius Pilate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    WHAT!!!!???!!! How did I not see this post before!!! I love LS!! Well one reason I think Lorcia Segmenta should be in EB is .... nah, I'm just kidding.


    But seriously, I think you guys should have given ljperreira a break, come on, I think he said he has only posted a few times on this forums. And the FAQ is so long, and I'm sure not everyone who downloaded the game actually read the FAQ. It's not like he said he didn't like EB or isn't going to download it, but anyway.

    With that said we all know that lorica segmenta isn't going to be in the game, but some of you have said the imperial iron gallic helm shouldn't be in the game(EB II), but I think that helm is actually in EB 1 and it's on the Pretorians, or is that another version of the helm?

    Also, I'm am pretty sure most Romans preferred to be clean-shaven and bathe and scrap off dirt on their skin with oil regulary. So I'm guessing the legions would also do this too, although not to the extent as the people back home. (Of course the wealthy aristocrats practiced hyguenine more than commoners.)

    Also, I think someone (I think it was Glee??) said they were showing clips of the show "HBO ROME" to people because the show is historically accurate of Roman times. If so, could someone explain to me what I am looking at in this picture, and it is from the show, it shows young Octavian in civil war against Marc Anthony. (p.s. just look at what the people are wearing)

    HBO ROME:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    By the way, I wonder if hollywood didn't use LS to the extent that it currently does, would you guys hate LS as much?? Also, I wonder what would happen if there was a huge archealogical finding lets say within the next year, that proved LS was used in aboundance throughout the post-marian timeframe. Would that change the EB's team's mind about including it in the game? But anyway, as of now it's not going to be included no matter what, I know, I know.


    Lastly, since alot of people on this forum have already stated their opinion on LS and called it ugly, I would like to state my opinion. Which is that it is very cool, awesome, beautiful, etc. But I also don't mind it not being in the game due to lack of archealogical evidence for it.


    Feel free to pick my post apart piece by piece and flame me I am ready this time....
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  28. #88

    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate View Post
    But seriously, I think you guys should have given ljperreira a break
    We did. We're onto ludwag's beard fetish now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate View Post
    Also, I think someone (I think it was Glee??) said they were showing clips of the show "HBO ROME" to people because the show is historically accurate of Roman times. If so, could someone explain to me what I am looking at in this picture, and it is from the show, it shows young Octavian in civil war against Marc Anthony. (p.s. just look at what the people are wearing)

    HBO ROME:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Gleemonex View Post
    Well, I wouldn't teach post-secondary history with it. But taken for what it is, it's an excellent series by any measure. The only major anachronicity -- stirrups -- were a concession to actor safety.
    I fail to see where any firm statement I've made here is anything but 100% correct. Hint: I emphasised the words that you seem to have missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate View Post
    what would happen if there was a huge archealogical finding lets say within the next year, that proved LS was used in aboundance throughout the post-marian timeframe. Would that change the EB's team's mind about including it in the game? But anyway, as of now it's not going to be included no matter what, I know, I know.
    Theres' no evidence, even outside of the EB timeframe, that LS at the peak of its use was ever more popular than LH, so no.

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  29. #89
    Prefect of Judea (former) Member Pontius Pilate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Gleemonex View Post
    Theres' no evidence, even outside of the EB timeframe, that LS at the peak of its use was ever more popular than LH, so no.

    Yes, we all know that LS wasn't used in the EB timeframe but I was saying hypothetically, if new evidence was found would the EB team add it in? Come on, I don't think the team can be that biased, I know someone people on this forum would never ever add LS in no matter what, but the EB team? Also, at its peak LS was used in a significant amount, so much so that if someone had to make a mod about that time period they would have to include the armor. And yes I know EB doesn't cover this time period.

    About the HBO ROME show, you still didn't answer my question: what am I looking at in that photo, early version of LS, kalkariese LS, bronze LS, something Hollywood made up? You probably thought I was trying to second guess you right?
    SPQR SPQR

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    LS is the best! LS is the best! Come on people sing along!!

  30. #90

    Default Re: Serious question about a hated subject - Lorica Segmentata

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate View Post
    Yes, we all know that LS wasn't used in the EB timeframe but I was saying hypothetically, if new evidence was found would the EB team add it in? Come on, I don't think the team can be that biased, I know someone people on this forum would never ever add LS in no matter what, but the EB team? Also, at its peak LS was used in a significant amount, so much so that if someone had to make a mod about that time period they would have to include the armor. And yes I know EB doesn't cover this time period.
    I'm not a historian, and I don't play one on EB, but I was speaking hypothetically too. Considering that the historical record for LS trends upwards from Teutoberg on, it would take far more than one good find (plus years of analysis) to change our minds. If we were to look at our unit roster that hypothetically, there are dozens of other units and armour types that we would likely consider first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontius Pilate View Post
    About the HBO ROME show, you still didn't answer my question:
    what am I looking at in that photo, early version of LS, kalkariese LS, bronze LS, something Hollywood made up? You probably thought I was trying to second guess you right?
    Yeah, things get a little edgy when the dreaded LS rears its head around here. Anyhow, that photo is too small to see the band fittings (and I never saw that episode), but the narrow shoulder plates and brass edging look like the BBC/HBO/RAI's take on a common ancestor of the Corbridge and Kalkriese types.

    -Glee
    Sheer musical genius: Gould on Mozart

    Balloons: ("Welcome to EB" from T.A.)


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