"Quisque est barbarus alio"

[Quercuum]

Maybe I shouldn't post this topic right here, but I'd like to have an answer to a question I keep asking myself since I know EB (not much, so).
In the sentence "Quisque est barbarus alio", why is it "alio"? I study Latin and, in my opinion and for what I know about this language, this sentence hasn't the meaning you want to give it.

In fact "Everyone is a barbarian to someone" should be "Quisque est barbarus ALII" (Alius,-a,-ud. Dative: Alii).

Of course, I'm sure there's not a mistake (I can't be the first one who's noticed it) so I'd like you to explain me why the sentence is written that way. Besides, I know "alio" instead of "alii" is found in some documents, but it was principally a volgar variation...

Thank you, and sorry for being so pedant

[abou]

What we have could still work, but it would be an odd construct using the ablative. So yes, you are correct. What we wrote is that everyone is a barbarian to/for garlic.

Oi, looks like we'll have to correct this.

[oudysseos]

Have you thought of translating the motto into other languages as well? Greek, at least. Would make it look less Romano-centric.
Would only work if you could change to loading screen randomly, I suppose.

[SwissBarbar]

i which case you'd have to translate "Europa Barbarorum" too...

[keravnos]

An effort of that, those who are Ancient Greek speakers feel free to chime in...

"Quisque est barbarus alio"=
ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΕΚΑΣΤΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ
or
ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ

"Europa Barbarorum"=
Η ΤΩΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ

IIRC, the problem we face are the fonts within the game, otherwise you would have had a lot of Greek apopthegms in game.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I'd favour allotrioi over [h]ekastoi mainly because it reflects the notion of 'alien' better. Of course, another typical expression would be:

[h]ekastos kath' [h]ekaston barbaros estin tisi - "everyone is in turn a barbarian to someone"

[SwissBarbar]

An effort of that, those who are Ancient Greek speakers feel free to chime in...

"Quisque est barbarus alio"=
ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΕΚΑΣΤΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ
or
ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ

"Europa Barbarorum"=
Η ΤΩΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ

IIRC, the problem we face are the fonts within the game, otherwise you would have had a lot of Greek apopthegms in game.

could you write this in latin letters? i'd like to know how to pronounce it

[||Lz3||]

was that quote also in vanilla?

I think I remember it... or maybe I'ts been so much time that I don't remember vanilla hehe

[antisocialmunky]

I'm surprised no one has given you a good sir, you do deserve it for this epic correction.

[Urg]

I don't think its a mistake.

My latin dictionary says "alio" is an adverb (not a declension of alius, which is an adjective) which means "to someone/someplace else". I think it was a relatively common latin word.

[abou]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_D...ive_adjectives

This matches exactly what is in my Wheelock book, which is considered to be the Latin textbook.

[Elmetiacos]

Hmph, I'd worked out that in Gaulish, "everyone is a barbarian for garlic" would be something like *cremui anguaron papon, but "everyone is a barbarian to someone else" is going to be much harder...

[Obelics]

I don't think its a mistake.

My latin dictionary says "alio" is an adverb (not a declension of alius, which is an adjective) which means "to someone/someplace else". I think it was a relatively common latin word.

According to my old dictionary, the adverb "Alio" exist, but the main meaning is "elsewhere"
Now, always according to it, this adverb has an "extended" II(second) meaning of "elsewhere"="to a different people", but just as a traslated/extended meaning.
So if the english sentence sound good as "Everyone is barbarous elsewhere" than is ok, but i dont think so.
To better undertand if i say to a man: "ehi! I dont want to read your curriculum"
then the guy could answer "then i will send it elsewhere" in the same meaning of "I will send it to some other guy" in this case i could use Alio as an adverb
But i think "Everyone is barbarous elsewhere" or “Everyone is a barbarian to other places” in the sense of "other people" sounds strange to me.
Also even if we want to accept it as a poetical licence, than it's a bit strange (for me) to see an adverb at the end of the sentence.

Here's a quote from Livio:
quo alio nisi ad nos socios

means: to whom if not to us allies? litterally==> to what "other where" if not to us allies?
http://la.wikisource.org/wiki/Ab_Urb...ta/liber_XXXIX

that is what i got from my old lyceum vocabulary, and according to my knowledge that i repeat is very limited (highschool), so as usually dont take it sure.

[Novellus]

That's a pretty huge discovery, finding a possible error in the translation. I can see it now:

EB 1.3 Released

Changed "Quisque est barbarus alio" to "alii"

(It's really that important!)

P.S. I'm not at all belittling the significance of the EB team or the Latin language.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This is still being reviewed.

We do take it seriously but the most effort is going into EBII, and we do have jobs/degree/papers to mark etc.

[Novellus]

I apologize. I can see that my tone implied belittlement of the conversation. It just seemed unusual that the translation hadn't been discussed earlier like this.

[Vlixes]

I don't think its a mistake.

My latin dictionary says "alio" is an adverb (not a declension of alius, which is an adjective) which means "to someone/someplace else". I think it was a relatively common latin word.

An adverb will make no sense. Definitely is a mistake.

[Arjos]

Alio is the correct dative in archaic latin. The language in use at the start date and for two of the three centuries covered by EB...

[Vlixes]

Alio is the correct dative in archaic latin. The language in use at the start date and for two of the three centuries covered by EB...

Where can I see this?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

According to the Lewis and Short dictionary the older version of the dative is found in Plautus (f. ~230 BCE). Furthermore, from the same source, the adverb alio is based on an old dative form, not the ablative you would expect, meaning 'elsewhere' or 'to another person or thing' similar to the Greek 'allose'.

Similarly, on 'quisque' the Lewis and Short states 'often used with reflexive se, suus'. On the other hand, often is not always, and it not necessary to do so.

[TIBERIVS•SEMPRONIVS•GRACCVS]

I was thinking about the mottoo too, because I thought the syntaxis was not correct. I think that barbarus should be replaced with an acussative form: "barbarum". Quisque est (esse perhaps?) barbarum alii.

[abou]

The verb esse does not take a direct object; therefore, babarus is nominative.

[oudysseos]

Good news, everyone.

According to the Pocket Oxford Latin computer programme, alio is either an adverb ("to another place; to another subject; to another purpose" or the "singular dat/abl masc/neut" of the adjective alius, alia, aliud ("another, different, changed; alius ... alius: one ... another"). Alii, meanwhile, is either the "singular genitive masc/neut" or the "plural nominative masculine" of alius, alia, aliud (same source). So it seems the quote was correct all along.

I Am Herenow

I found this on an internal discussion of this issue, which seems to settle it.

[Andros Antonius]

you know, i was wondering something. how is ii pronounced in actual latin? i know in english the second i is stressed and people would say ali-eye or something, and in romanian when used as a plural form of a word it's not. just curious, since i haven't taken any actual latin classes

[Tellos Athenaios]

you know, i was wondering something. how is ii pronounced in actual latin? i know in english the second i is stressed and people would say ali-eye or something, and in romanian when used as a plural form of a word it's not. just curious, since i haven't taken any actual latin classes

Two i's. For an idea, you could listen to the Latin Voicemod: Triarii!

[Blxz]

you know, i was wondering something. how is ii pronounced in actual latin? i know in english the second i is stressed and people would say ali-eye or something, and in romanian when used as a plural form of a word it's not. just curious, since i haven't taken any actual latin classes

Further to this, how is the whole quote pronounced? I have very limited latin but I tend to read it as:

Kiss-kay est barba-rus al-ee-oh

That turned out to be harder to type than I thought.... How correct am I with my pronunciation?

[Urg]

I found this on an internal discussion of this issue, which seems to settle it.

By the way, thanks for posting this Oudy. I know this has been discussed before but it was never really resolved. Like you, I still think the quote used in the current mod uses correct Latin. It would be disappointing to see it changed simply because on a very basic Latin analysis alio appears to be an incorrect declension of the adjective.