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Thread: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

  1. #1
    Member Member Quercuum's Avatar
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    Default "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Maybe I shouldn't post this topic right here, but I'd like to have an answer to a question I keep asking myself since I know EB (not much, so).
    In the sentence "Quisque est barbarus alio", why is it "alio"? I study Latin and, in my opinion and for what I know about this language, this sentence hasn't the meaning you want to give it.

    In fact "Everyone is a barbarian to someone" should be "Quisque est barbarus ALII" (Alius,-a,-ud. Dative: Alii).

    Of course, I'm sure there's not a mistake (I can't be the first one who's noticed it) so I'd like you to explain me why the sentence is written that way. Besides, I know "alio" instead of "alii" is found in some documents, but it was principally a volgar variation...

    Thank you, and sorry for being so pedant

  2. #2
    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    What we have could still work, but it would be an odd construct using the ablative. So yes, you are correct. What we wrote is that everyone is a barbarian to/for garlic.

    Oi, looks like we'll have to correct this.

  3. #3
    EB Nitpicker Member oudysseos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Have you thought of translating the motto into other languages as well? Greek, at least. Would make it look less Romano-centric.
    Would only work if you could change to loading screen randomly, I suppose.
    οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
    Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
    Glaucus, son of Hippolochus, Illiad, 6.146



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    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    i which case you'd have to translate "Europa Barbarorum" too...
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    memristor fan Member keravnos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    An effort of that, those who are Ancient Greek speakers feel free to chime in...

    "Quisque est barbarus alio"=
    ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΕΚΑΣΤΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ
    or
    ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ

    "Europa Barbarorum"=
    Η ΤΩΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ

    IIRC, the problem we face are the fonts within the game, otherwise you would have had a lot of Greek apopthegms in game.


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    Senior Member Senior Member Tellos Athenaios's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    I'd favour allotrioi over [h]ekastoi mainly because it reflects the notion of 'alien' better. Of course, another typical expression would be:

    [h]ekastos kath' [h]ekaston barbaros estin tisi - "everyone is in turn a barbarian to someone"
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    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by keravnos View Post
    An effort of that, those who are Ancient Greek speakers feel free to chime in...

    "Quisque est barbarus alio"=
    ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΕΚΑΣΤΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ
    or
    ΕΚΑΣΤΟΣ ΑΛΛΟΤΡΙΩΙ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΣ ΕΣΤΙ

    "Europa Barbarorum"=
    Η ΤΩΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ

    IIRC, the problem we face are the fonts within the game, otherwise you would have had a lot of Greek apopthegms in game.
    could you write this in latin letters? i'd like to know how to pronounce it
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Yes, it's wrong, unless it was originally meant to be "Everyone is a Barbarain by someone called" (the verb was then dropped) or something, but to be honest its more likely just wrong.

    Oops.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    and no one had found out?
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    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    There are a small group of adjectives that decline differently than most in the second declension. Second declension words that you would be familiar with are mostly names such as Julius, Augustus, and Livius. Adjectives such as alius are also part of the second declension, but their genitive and dative forms are slightly different.

    To be fair, I would like to think that it is an easy mistake to make. For example, I have a Latin minor from my time in undergrad and having read it I didn't bat an eyelash and understood perfectly what was written. It was a simple mistake, albeit one that should not have happened.

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Looking again I'm wondering if it's meant to be vulgar Latin, in which case "alio" may be acceptable.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Looking again I'm wondering if it's meant to be vulgar Latin, in which case "alio" may be acceptable.
    Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Does EB use Classical Latin - the most common surviving version of that language? Old Latin would definitely be more appropriate, but it is not as well-known as Classical.

  13. #13
    Biotechnlogy Student Member ||Lz3||'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    was that quote also in vanilla?

    I think I remember it... or maybe I'ts been so much time that I don't remember vanilla hehe
    Last edited by ||Lz3||; 12-12-2008 at 03:16.
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  14. #14
    memristor fan Member keravnos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissBarbar View Post
    could you write this in latin letters? i'd like to know how to pronounce it
    Hekastos allotrioi barbaros esti

    and of course Tellos' own,
    [h]ekastos kath' [h]ekaston barbaros estin tisi - "everyone is in turn a barbarian to someone"
    Last edited by keravnos; 12-15-2008 at 23:18.


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  15. #15
    Member Member Quercuum's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by abou View Post
    There are a small group of adjectives that decline differently than most in the second declension. Second declension words that you would be familiar with are mostly names such as Julius, Augustus, and Livius. Adjectives such as alius are also part of the second declension, but their genitive and dative forms are slightly different.

    To be fair, I would like to think that it is an easy mistake to make. For example, I have a Latin minor from my time in undergrad and having read it I didn't bat an eyelash and understood perfectly what was written. It was a simple mistake, albeit one that should not have happened.
    First of all, it IS a mistake that's easy to be made; in fact, the first time I read it, I didn't notice it too.
    Secondly, adjectives as "Alter (-a,-um), Alius (-a,-ud), Neuter (neutra, neutrum), Ullus (-a,-um), Nullus (-a,-um), Solus (-a,-um), Totus (-a,-um), Unus (-a,-um) etc." are called Pronominal Adjectives since they're declined, in genitive and dative, as pronouns.
    So it's "Alteri" for "at/for the other one" instead of "Altero", following the common "-o" 2nd declination dative form. This is true for all these adjectives, so "Alterius, Alteri- Aliius, Alii etc."

    As I've specified in my first post, "Alio" is known as a vulgar form, but I think a sentence like "Everyone is a Barbarian to someone else" is too important and significant to be written in such an incorrect and popular Latin. That's why I guess it should be reviewed.

    Finally, I'd agree with who says that this sentence should be written in Greek too; but, if we do so, it would be unfair for Celtic and Punic factions. In this case, what I think has to be found is an almost neutral and universally understood language, as English nowadays it's used in European Union for interpolitical debates. That's why, in my opinion, the title and the main sentence of the mod should remain in Latin only.


    Edit: It cannot even be as Philipvs Calicvla says. In fact, if it was "Everyone is a Barbarian by someone called", in Latin would be "Quisque Barbarus ab alio appellatur". (Litt: Everyone is called Barbarian by someone else). We'd lose the "est", and if we cut away the verb (Quisque Barbarus ab alio) this sentence would really sound as if it was pronounced by a non-Latin person.

    Anyways, I apologize if I'm annoying everyone with these know-all Latin lessons; I just wanted to understand if there was a mistake. And I definetely think there is
    Last edited by Quercuum; 12-12-2008 at 10:26.

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    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    You compared latin to modern english, but at these days, wasn't actually greek the most widespread language?
    Last edited by ziegenpeter; 12-12-2008 at 11:25.

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    EB Nitpicker Member oudysseos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Why choose? You could have
    a. the motto in all the ancient languages that you can manage (latin, greek, celtic, proto-germanic, punic, aramaic etc., assuming as i believe is the case that the EB team has collectively the required knowledge)
    b. alternate loading screens with alternate languages for the motto (this would be cool I think)
    c. animated start-up screen where the latin morphs into greek morphs into lepontic etc. (and for Christmas I want a Ferrari)

    Greek would have been much more universal in 272 BCE. By Ad 14?

    P.S. This isn't Proto-German of course but I found myself thinking 'Jedermann ist jemand Barbarisch' but that sounded more like 'Jederman ist jemand Bayerisch', i.e. Everyone is a Bavarian to Somebody.
    Last edited by oudysseos; 12-12-2008 at 13:14.
    οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
    Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
    Glaucus, son of Hippolochus, Illiad, 6.146



  18. #18
    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    Greek would have been much more universal in 272 BCE. By Ad 14?
    Well.. yes.

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    aka Artaserse (the Lone Borg) Member Obelics's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    isn't "ALIO" a complemet of limitation? isn't the phrase "barbarous for other people" that "for other people" a complement of limitation?
    for other people, in relation to other people etc.
    so "Alio" could be correct, cause that complement is translated with a simple ablative.

    beware im not stating nothing, just trying to figure it out (my latin is just that remembrance of highschool/classical lyceum, and i wasn't a great student at the times)

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    aka Artaserse (the Lone Borg) Member Obelics's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    i dont know if this can be of help, just out of curiosity i talked at telephone with the mother of a friend of mine, she's graduated in latin and greek, it was just a fast conversation, so i dont had the time to talk in deep, but she sayd it cannot be a complement of limitaion, so the dative is just.

    she translated: "quisque aliis hominibus barbarus est" if i well understood via telephone.

    EDIT: anyway some mistake could it come from my translation in italian of the english sentences, i translated the others at the plural, so this can be why she translated aliis hominibus
    also she sayd hominibus was optional.
    So if we use the singular, i think "Quisque est barbarus alii" is ok.
    My doubt was just on the Dative vs Ablative thing.

  21. #21
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    Everyone is a Bavarian to Somebody
    love it. i couldnt stop laughing. my vote for the new motto

  22. #22
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    I'm surprised no one has given you a good sir, you do deserve it for this epic correction.
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  23. #23
    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by miotas View Post
    love it. i couldnt stop laughing.
    Especially i you know how the bavarians are regarded by most of the other germans...

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    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by ziegenpeter View Post
    Especially i you know how the bavarians are regarded by most of the other germans...
    and how are they regarded? By experience i say that every "group" of germans is disliked by another "group" of germans. So are the Saxons, the Swabians, citizens of Berlin, people from Cologne do not like people from Düsseldorf and vice versa, etc. etc. .... Actually it's the same in most other countries.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 12-14-2008 at 13:24.
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    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    According to QuickLatin (which was probably used for this), ALIO is both Dative and Ablative. :)

    But perhaps it's as you say, the popular vulgar form of Latin. Is there a source that states that ALIO is not both abl. and dat.?

    When I check most Ablative and Datives, they very often share the suffix.


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  26. #26
    Celto-Germanic Spearman Member Kuningaz's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Well for us Austrians bavarians are the northern-most 'civilized' people (Weisswurscht-Aequator)

  27. #27
    Devout worshipper of Bilious Member miotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Quote Originally Posted by ziegenpeter View Post
    Especially i you know how the bavarians are regarded by most of the other germans...
    i was thinking more along the lines of the dessert...

  28. #28
    lictor Member Urg's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    I don't think its a mistake.

    My latin dictionary says "alio" is an adverb (not a declension of alius, which is an adjective) which means "to someone/someplace else". I think it was a relatively common latin word.
    Last edited by Urg; 12-15-2008 at 01:34.

  29. #29
    Krusader's Nemesis Member abou's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_D...ive_adjectives

    This matches exactly what is in my Wheelock book, which is considered to be the Latin textbook.

  30. #30
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Quisque est barbarus alio"

    Hmph, I'd worked out that in Gaulish, "everyone is a barbarian for garlic" would be something like *cremui anguaron papon, but "everyone is a barbarian to someone else" is going to be much harder...
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