about the pike units in M2

**Cute Wolf** · 01-28-2009, 14:59

I just curious which side has better pike handling technique? Macedonians or Swiss?

**Macilrille** · 01-28-2009, 15:08

I do not think we can know, you could invent a time mascine and bring some of both forwards to have them compare techniques and fight, but apart from that I suspect our sources are lacking. Both kicked proverbial at their time, but were their enemies the same? What eventually did defeat both a Landsknecht pikeblock and a Macedonian Phanlanx was tough and well trained mobile inf with short weapons and shield. Ravenna and Kynoscephelai/Pydna.

**mikil100** · 01-28-2009, 15:45

I'd say they beat themselves, reading on both.. Arrogance and inability to adapt, not necesarily the weapons.

**Strategos Alexandros** · 01-28-2009, 21:11

Originally Posted by mikil100

I'd say they beat themselves, reading on both.. Arrogance and inability to adapt, not necesarily the weapons.

Agreed. I would still support the Swiss in a straight fight though. Better disciplined as well as being full time soldiers. If only we had a time machine with a large capacity!

**mikil100** · 01-29-2009, 00:20

Originally Posted by strategos alexandros

Agreed. I would still support the Swiss in a straight fight though. Better disciplined as well as being full time soldiers. If only we had a time machine with a large capacity!

From an equipment standpoint, weren't the phalangites equipped with longer spears than the Swiss? That with a shield just makes me think the Swiss couldn't even get to the pikemen without heavy casualties, mostly cause they didnt have shields. This is probably just me loving the Diadochi in EBI.. I'm too biased. lol

**Macilrille** · 01-29-2009, 01:00

Pike 3-6 m
Sarissa 4-7 m

Armour of both antagonists would be about the same, Phalangites would have shields, Swiss pike would have people with Lucerne Hammers or Halbards mixed in, German Pike would have Zweihänder/Doppelsöldner, Tercios would have people with shield and sword, all for same purpose, breaking enemy formation by getting in amongst them and start the slaughter.

I cannot say who would win, except Roman Legions, English Longbow, HA, or the Tercios that defeated Pike at Ravenna, but they would beat both, while both would probably be close to equal in a head to head. Dunno, perhaps the "Block-breakers" would make the diference.

**Cute Wolf** · 01-29-2009, 09:50

Well, let's hope that the Macedonian pezhetairoi's first line didn't sit down and crouch (like the swiss) when they are ordered to halt...

**Megas Methuselah** · 01-30-2009, 04:18

That only happens when guard mode is on. If you remove their secondary weapons (the pigstickers), then take off guardmode, even the most basic militia pikemen become ice-cold mass murderers. It's scary, to be honest.