Will ETW retail be a standalone version (no Steam install)?

**BeenPlayingSinceRTW** · 01-24-2009, 05:56

So I was doing some web searches on Steam, and it seems like a lot of people have problems with it (apparently, like Vista, it has some DRM features that can use a lot of CPU, and some games will not start/play if Steam's servers go down or are overloaded and can't confirm your subscription is active).

Example thread: http://www.hiddenpath.com/node/264

So I was wondering if all versions of ETW will require Steam, or if a retail version bought at the store will be standalone and allow singleplayer gameplay witout Steam installation.

Also, is it possible that a version without Steam would not require as much CPU as the Steam version?

**Martok** · 01-24-2009, 06:57

Empire will require you to install Steam, if only for the initial activation. After that, however, you can keep Steam in offline mode.

Welcome to the Org, btw!

**Sir Beane** · 01-24-2009, 13:52

Despite the negative attention Steam has recieved, it is significantly better than alternative forms of DRM.

We could have ended up with SecuROM. Plenty of high profile games have used it recently and I am incredibly glad Empire was not another.

Steam is reasonably unintrusive. It does not 'phone home' like new version of SecuRom. There is no limited number of installs (as far as I know), and you do not have to have a regular internet connection to play Steam powered games.

All in all Steam is the best choice (other than no DRM at all.)

**lars573** · 01-24-2009, 18:35

Unless your PC has no internet connection. Leaving you with no legal alternative to play the game.

**Sir Beane** · 01-24-2009, 18:39

Originally Posted by lars573

Unless your PC has no internet connection. Leaving you with no legal alternative to play the game.

Agreed. It's a shame companies still use mthods such as this. Recent events have firmly established that even the most draconian copy protection does nothing to stop piracy. I wish more companies would follow the example of Stardock and remoe any form of copy protection from the game, it makes things easier for paying customers, and not particularly any easier for pirates.

**Belgolas** · 01-24-2009, 19:48

Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Agreed. It's a shame companies still use mthods such as this. Recent events have firmly established that even the most draconian copy protection does nothing to stop piracy. I wish more companies would follow the example of Stardock and remoe any form of copy protection from the game, it makes things easier for paying customers, and not particularly any easier for pirates.

O.K. Leave your car door and House unlocked at all times. Hey an experience person can take your car in 60 seconds so why not let them take it in less.

**BeenPlayingSinceRTW** · 01-25-2009, 20:12

Originally Posted by Martok

Welcome to the Org, btw!

Thanks for the welcome!

**Zenicetus** · 01-25-2009, 22:13

Originally Posted by Martok

Empire will require you to install Steam, if only for the initial activation. After that, however, you can keep Steam in offline mode.

Can the game still be played if I un-install Steam after the first activation? Or is it required to be on the computer in offline mode? That might be a deal-breaker for some of us.

Originally Posted by Monk

The industry expects you to have some kind of internet connection, just like many publishers ship games solely on DvDs now. It is an expectation that has been brought on by advances in hardware, the times, and the PC gaming community.

Of course the industry expects it, and it's not just for the DRM. It means they can hand off the bulk of "tech support" to user forums. They no longer have to wait until games are actually finished before release ("we'll fix it in a patch!"), and they no longer have to ship the game with a complete, in-depth manual.

Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Millions of people use Steam's service every day, and it wouldn't be that succesful if it wasn't doing something right.

It's successful because millions of users have accepted that particular deal with the Devil, in order to play certain games. Not all of us will do that. Invasive DRM places an extra barrier to purchase in front of the customer. It's no longer -- "Is this game good, and will I enjoy it?". Now it's -- "Is the game good enough to accept invasive DRM along with it? What am I willing to put up with?" If game developers think they're not losing at least some potential sales from that, they're crazy.

**Sir Beane** · 01-25-2009, 22:26

Can the game still be played if I un-install Steam after the first activation? Or is it required to be on the computer in offline mode? That might be a deal-breaker for some of us. [/QUOTE]

Steam is required to be on the PC after the first activation. To play the game you boot up Steam in offline mode, and then run the game through it.

Originally Posted by Zenicetus

Of course the industry expects it, and it's not just for the DRM. It means they can hand off the bulk of "tech support" to user forums. They no longer have to wait until games are actually finished before release ("we'll fix it in a patch!"), and they no longer have to ship the game with a complete, in-depth manual.

Releasing games unfinished and in some clases near unplayable has sadly been the way of PC gaming for a very long time now, depressing as that is. I think the industry expects most users to have an internet connection mostly because most users do have an internet connection. It's similar to all modern games requiring a user to have a decent graphics card or the correct amount of RAM.

Originally Posted by Zenicetus

It's successful because millions of users have accepted that particular deal with the Devil, in order to play certain games. Not all of us will do that. Invasive DRM places an extra barrier to purchase in front of the customer. It's no longer -- "Is this game good, and will I enjoy it?". Now it's -- "Is the game good enough to accept invasive DRM along with it? What am I willing to put up with?" If game developers think they're not losing at least some potential sales from that, they're crazy.

It isn't just succesful because it has been forced on people. Like I said earlier Steam offers very stable and versatile mulitplayer capabilities. There are many people who would use it regardless of whether they had to or not.

And I agree with you about DRM. I hate it and I don't belive that it has any affect on piracy at all, whilst still inconveniencing users.

Sega however probably require that CA have some form of DRM on their games, so CA chose to use Steam. Steam is probably the least invasive form of DRM around at the moment (other than plain old CD keys) and it comes with strong multiplayer support to boot.

CA went with the lesser of many evils, which is more than many developers are choosing to do.

But in the end it is your choice. It would be a shame if you let Steam stop you from enjoying Empire, but no one can force you to purchase something you are apposed to.

And I'm going to say this again, an in depth discussion on DRM does not belong in this thread. I'm sure if we keep going off topic like this that the thread will eventually be locked or moved. Let's stick to direct questions about Steam, and leave the discussion of in-depth stuff for somewhere else.

**BeenPlayingSinceRTW** · 01-26-2009, 11:32

Originally Posted by Sir Beane

Steam is required to be on the PC after the first activation. To play the game you boot up Steam in offline mode, and then run the game through it.

Translation: Higher CPU utilization and slower response times, just like Vista.

I think now I understand why the CPU requirements are so high for ETW - everything has to be run through Steam client.

**Jack Lusted** · 01-26-2009, 11:42

Steam uses minimal RAM and little to no CPU when running, it is used to launch the game and it merely runs in the background. It uses about as much system resources as MSN messenger, it is hardly going to impact game performance.