Age of Sail - Ships from the 15th Cent. onwards

[Lusitani]

Ok I thought it would be best to open this thread dedicated to sailships instead of having them dispersed and offtopic.

Keep them coming.

V.

[Lusitani]

Transferring the discussion from the posts on the INTERVIEW thread....

@Marten

Here is a Peregrine Galley:



It is a 18th Cent. ship....I think the galleon evolved to the "ship of the line" whereas this looks more like a merchant.

V.

[Mailman653]

Here is my contribution:

USS Pennsylvania, a 3241-ton, 120-gun ship of the line, was the largest sailing warship ever built for the US Navy.

[Sir Beane]

I've dug this up from and old thread of mine, it seems to be appropriate.

Possible List of Ships in Empire - This is an informed best guess, not confirmed info

These ships are listed in descending order of power (size and armament) until I can think of a better way of doing it. This order won't be perfect btw, feel free to offer corrections.

Ships of the Line

H.M.S Victory
Britain only. I am assuming Victory will be stronger than average given its status as a Special Forces unit.

140 gun first-rate ship of the line
The French ship Valmy was an example of this sort of ship. It was the biggest lineship ever built. My reason for including this class is that I think I saw ships this size mentioned in one of the many previews.

First rate ship of the line, a.ka Man-o-war.

100 +Guns, 3 gun decks + forecastle and quarterdeck 850 to 875 crew. 2000 tons+. Presumably all playable factions.

Second rate ship of the line
90 to 98 guns, 3 Gun decks + forecastle and quarterdeck, 700 to 750 crew, about 2000 tons. Presumably all playable factions.

Third rate ship of the line
64 to 80 Guns, 2 Gun decks (or 3 early on), 500 to 650 crew, 1300-1600 tons.
Presumably all playable factions.

Fourth rate ship of the line
50 to 60 guns, 2 Gun decks, 320 to 420 crew about 1000 tons.
Presumably all playable factions.

Fifth rate
We have some overlap with frigates here, as frigates could be classed as fifth rate, along with small two deck cruisers. 32 to 40 Guns, 1 Gun deck, 200 to 300 crew, 700 to 1450 tons.
Presumably all playable factions.

Sixth rate
Again we have some overlap here. This class could include small friagates, Corvettes, and some of the larger sloops of war. 20 to 28 guns, 1 Gun deck, 140 to 200 Crew, 450 to 550 tons.
Presumably all playable factions.

Interceptors/Ship of the line support

Most of these ships would ne classed as fifth or sixth raters. I'm still gonig to give them there own seperate sections though.

U.S.S Constitution
Stronger than average for the same reasons as Victory.

Razee
A razee is a robust frigate, created by cutting the top deck off a larger ship of the line.

Frigates are a vital part of any balanced sea-going fleet. They are cruisers that can operate independently and are swift enough to hunt down enemy merchantmen. the chance for prize money makes them popular postings among officers and men alike!

One way of creating a large, powerful frigate is to take a two-deck ship of the line and, in effect, saw off the top deck creating a single-deck frigate. The first result is that a 64-gun ship can now only carry 44 guns, but the ones that remain are the heavier than those normally found on a frigate, typically 32- or 24-pounders rather than the expected 18s! The second result is that the razee retains the strong timbers of the original 64, making it a robust ship in combat. Thirdly, having lost its upper works, the new ship generally handles rather well under sail. All this work takes time and valuable dock space, of course.

Historically, one of the most successful razees was HMS Indefatigable, commanded by Edward Pellew. In the company of another frigate, Pellew took on - and defeated - the Droits de l'Homme, a French 74, in 1797. During the next year or so, Pellew and the Indefatigable went on to take a further nine vessels. (Credit to CA)
All playable factions.

Frigate
Fast, versatile ship designed to intercept and outfight anything but a lineship.

Frigates are single-deck warships, used for a variety of tasks thanks to a combination of good handling, firepower and endurance at sea.

“Fifth rate” is a Royal Navy term for the largest of the single-deck frigates, square-rigged ships that carry some 44 guns, usually no heavier than 12-pounders. Originally a French design – but quickly adopted by the other European powers – the frigate is used for pursuit, convoy protection, commerce raiding and reconnaissance work. The design’s excellent sailing characteristics and good handling, especially in inshore waters, make it a useful addition to any blockading fleet. The frigate’s ability to operate far away from a home port also makes them it a useful cruiser, carrying the fight to the enemy in unexpected waters.

Frigates can have the advantage over larger, two-deck ships in rough waters. A frigate captain rarely has to worry about his gun deck taking on water, and can therefore fight in conditions that leave bigger ships at a disadvantage. However, fifth rates are not powerful enough to face battleships. They have the speed and handling to stay out of trouble; they do not have the strength of construction to survive a pounding! Against sloops, brigs and merchantmen, however, they are deadly. This makes them excellent postings for officers hungry for prize money and glory.

Frigates captains made splendid role models for fictional heroes: Thomas, Lord Cochrane earned a fortune in prize money, gained the nickname “le loup des mers” (sea-wolf) and was the inspiration for fictional heroes Horatio Hornblower and Jack Aubrey. (Credit to CA)
All factions.

Corvette/Corvair
(An interesting little ship. This class started out as s small boat withno more than ten guns but ended up developing into something only slightly smaller than a Frigate, carrying upto 24 guns. All factions. (Credit to Asmodius)

Warships not commonly used in a line of battle

Galleon
Old, outdated ship, definitely Spain and Portugal, possibly all European powers.

Caravel
Old, outdated exploration vessel, Spain, Portugal.

Oarships

Galley
Lateen rigged Mediterranean ship which can be rowed.
probably Ottoman Empire, Sweden,
Russia, Denmark and Norway, Poland-Lithuania, Venice, other Baltic and Med factions.

Xebec
Lateen rigged Mediterranean ship designed for large crews and high speed.
Ottoman Empire.

Galleass
They were larger and had more sail than true galleys..as well as much more firepower. They were more sailing centered than rowing ....which had its disadvantages as well. This was one of the precusors to what became the square rigged man-of-war.
Basically this ship is a heavy galley. It will probably be seen around the Med area for a few factions. (Credit to Asmodius)
Ottaman Empire.



Exotic/Uncommon

Rocket ship
Long range artillery designed to set ships on fire.
Definitely U.S.A, almost certainly
Britain, probably other European powers.

Fire ship or bomb ship
Sacrificial ship designed to sail to the enemy and destroy itself.
All playable factions

Steamship
Lategame ship powered by both sails and steam powered paddles. Can sail against the wind with reasonable speed. Will likely come in a variety of shapes and sizes.
All playable factions.

Trading Vessels, Transport Ships

East Indiamen
Were large sailing vessel of the type built from the 16th to the 19th century for the trade between Europe and southern Asia. The first were Portuguese and Dutch; English Indiamen appeared late in the 16th century and eventually came to dominate the trade. The ships varied in size from about 400 to 1,500 tons and more; often they were larger than contemporary men-of-war. They were three-masted and invariably well armed for protection against piracy.

East Indiamen were designed to carry both passengers and goods and to defend themselves against piracy, and so constituted a special class of ship. In the period of the Napoleonic Wars they were often painted to resemble warships, an attacker could not be sure if gunports were real or merely paint, and some carried sizeable armaments. A number of these ships were in fact acquired by the Royal Navy, and in some cases they successfully fought off attacks by the French. One of the most celebrated of these incidents occurred in 1804, when a fleet of East Indiamen and other merchant vessels successfully fought off a marauding squadron commanded by Admiral Linois in the Indian Ocean. The event is dramatised in Patrick O'Brian's novel HMS Surprise.
East Indiamen were the largest merchant ships regularly built during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, generally measuring between 1100 and 1400 registered tons. Two of the largest were the Earl of Mansfield and Lascelles being built at Deptford in 1795. Both were purchased by the Royal Navy, completed as 56-gun Fourth Rate Ships of the Line, and renamed Weymouth and Madras respectively. They measured 1426 tons on dimensions of approximately 175 feet overall length of hull, 144 feet keel, 43 feet beam, 17 feet draft. (Credit to Fisherking)
England, United Provinces, Portugal.

Transport Ships
Merchantmen pressed into service as troop transports. Lightly armed or unarmed trading vessels.
All playable factions. (Credit to Fisherking)

Escort Ships/Messengers/Small support craft

Sloop-of-war
In the 18th and the earlier part of the 19th centuries, a sloop-of-war was a small sailing warship (also known as one of the escort types) with a single gun deck that carried anything up to eighteen cannon. As the rating system covered all vessels with 20 guns and above, this meant that the term sloop-of-war actually encompassed all the unrated combat vessels including the very small gun-brigs and cutters. In technical terms, even the more specialised bomb vessels and fireships were classed as sloops-of-war, and in practice these were actually employed in the sloop role when not carrying out their specialized functions. (Credit to Fisherking)

A sloop of war is usually ketch-rigged with two masts. These small vessels handle well in restricted waters.

The ability to navigate in exceptionally shallow or dangerous waters makes sloops very useful in such seas as the reef-strewn waters of the Caribbean. They can also operate without the need for extensive onshore naval facilities nearby. They are also extremely useful as fleet auxiliaries, carrying out communications tasks and vital inshore scouting work, and can hunt down smaller prey such as privateers and small enemy cargo vessels. A sloop-of-war (sometimes a corvette in French service) is a different vessel from a civilian, merchant sloop, having a flush deck, two square-rigged masts, guns, and a larger crew.

Historically, a post captain would rarely command a ship this small. The commanding officer was the “master and commander” (this is the origin of the modern naval rank of commander), and held the formal rank of lieutenant. Captain Cook RN commanded HMS Resolution, a sloop converted from a collier (coal ship), on his epic Pacific voyages and was highly satisfied with its performance. Sloop captains could be aggressive: before his promotion to post captain, Thomas Cochrane commanded the 14-gun HMS Speedy and managed to capture “El Gamo”, a Spanish xebec of 32 guns with a crew six times larger than his own! (Credit to CA)
All playable factions.

Gunboat

A gunboat was usually a small undecked vessel carrying a single smoothbore cannon in the bow, or just two or three such cannons. A gunboat could carry one or two masts or be oar-powered only, but the single-masted version of about 50 ft length was most typical. Some types of gunboats carried two cannons, or else mounted a number of swivel guns on the railings.
The advantages of this type of gunboat were that since it only carried a single cannon, that cannon could be quite heavy -- for instance a 32-pounder -- and that the boat could be maneuvered in shallow or restricted waters, where sailing was difficult for larger ships. A single hit from a frigate would demolish a gunboat, but a frigate facing a half-dozen gunboats in an estuary would likely be seriously damaged before it could manage to sink all of them. Gunboats were also easy and quick to build; the combatants in the 1776 Battle of Valcour Island on New York's Lake Champlain were mostly gunboats built on the spot.(Credit to Fisherking)

Dinghy
There has always been a need for small tender boats for transporting goods and personnel to and from anchored sailing ships.

(Hope we see them for the lakes and rivers as military transport…at least in North America) (Credit to Fisherking)

Canoe

Probably a long shot, unless we see combat on rivers and lakes.

Canoes are shallow-draft boats with a fine, delicate shape. Their perfect hydrodynamic form has a lot in common with the Viking ship. One advantage over a rowboat is that the paddler faces the direction he's going. Most Indian canoes were small, light, and fast. They'd carry a few people rapidly up and down rivers and lakes. The Iroquois built big, 30-foot-long freight-carrying canoes that could haul 18 passengers or a ton of merchandise. But even they could be portaged (carried over land) by just three people. (Credit to Fisherking)

[Marten]

Here is my contribution:

USS Pennsylvania, a 3241-ton, 120-gun ship of the line, was the largest sailing warship ever built for the US Navy.

Whoaa ... sails like a tower block for sure. By the way: Did i show you my new sig lately ...

[Marten]

Transferring the discussion from the posts on the INTERVIEW thread....

@Marten

Here is a Peregrine Galley:



It is a 18th Cent. ship....I think the galleon evolved to the "ship of the line" whereas this looks more like a merchant.

V.

Thank you Lusitani, nice picture from a really beauty. I like the style of these ships, although they weren't the powerful weapons like Victory or other first / second rates.
And from all i've read about these galleys they were fast runners and good sailers.

[Fisherking]

Hmmm they look like galleons to me honestly. The sort of galleons the English and Dutch used, with small bow castles.

Like the Ark Royal...

This is closest to the ships from the screenshot.

The lateen rigged mizzen and jigg masts and their lines match best. Truly Gorgeous!

Not just this one…all of them!

[lobosrul]

Sir Bean: I highly doubt we see anything like the Valmy in the game, as it wasn't launched until the 1840's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Valmy Also USS Pennsylvania wasn't launched until 1837.

The largest ship of the 18th century was Santisima Trinidad. Originally a triple decker her quarterdeck was joined to her forecastle to create a flush-decked quad-decker. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish...Trinidad_(1769)

HMS Victory however was almost certainly the more powerful ship.

I read somewhere there will be 24 different ships in the game. My guess on the vessels we'll see in the game:

1st Rate (100 Guns) most powerful ship late in the game
2nd Rate (90 Guns) most powerful ship early in the game
3rd Rate (64 Guns) early game
3rd Rate (74 Guns) early game
Unsure if there will be any 4th rates they were never popular (not counting very heavy frigates)
Around 3 or 4 different types of frigates. From a powerful 44 gun razee to a 28 gun 6th rate (ie the HMS Surprise).
Corvette (about 18 guns) essentially a Frigate in miniature
Brig (2 masts square rigged)
Schooner (fore and aft rigged)
Cutter
I doubt there will be gunboats. Those are essentially for harbor defense only and we've been told all sea battles will be ship to ship only.

In the Med: Xebecs and Galley's.

That leaves room for around 12 different types of merchant vessels.

I know there was a pic of a paddle-wheel steamship but the first successful ocean-going steamers were just after 1800 I though. Also, paddle wheel steamers were rarely used in warships, the paddle limits the amount of guns that can be mounted, and one lucky shot can disable it.

Hopefully, we'll have an upgradeable navy. IE: carronades, improved scantling, royal masts, coppering.

[Fisherking]

@ lobosrul


I wouldn’t say Victory was most powerful.

She wasn’t even the largest of the British Ships.

She is famous because she was Nelson’s Flagship and Nelson ended the threat of the invasion of England by the victory at Trafalgar.

Many of the US ships were commissioned to be built and some laid down when Congress would with draw funding for their completion. Not much has changed...

The game is more of an historical what if than a history sim. So they look at what was possible rather than what was, to a limited extent at least.

[lobosrul]

@ lobosrul


I wouldn’t say Victory was most powerful.

She wasn’t even the largest of the British Ships.

She is famous because she was Nelson’s Flagship and Nelson ended the threat of the invasion of England by the victory at Trafalgar.

Many of the US ships were commissioned to be built and some laid down when Congress would with draw funding for their completion. Not much has changed...

The game is more of an historical what if than a history sim. So they look at what was possible rather than what was, to a limited extent at least.

I only meant the HMS Victory was more powerful than the Santísima Trinidad. She carried less, but heavier guns, and was worked by a better trained crew. As far as a I know the Victory was in the most powerful class on ships Britain built at the time (launched in 1765). Later in her career she was certainly superseded.

Most of the ships-of-the-line that the US authorized in the 1820s-1840's were either never completed or completed then quickly laid up in ordinary. I don't think any ever saw action.

*Also in my previous post I said 3rd Rate 74's were early game. I meant late in the game. They were the most common ships of the line for many years in fact.

[lobosrul]

Ok, saw a pic on twcenter.net that shows naval combat. The ship selected says "Infexible, Heavy First Rate, 122 Guns, 303 Crew".

[Lusitani]

Two East Indiaman Ships, The Amsterdam and The Gotheborg. I suppose ETW merchants will look like these.









https://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l.../Gotheborg.jpg



V.

[Lusitani]

The Nau Princípe Real (its a ship of the line , but they were still called naus) arriving at Rio de Janeiro in 1808 with the portuguese Royal familyt hat had to leave Portugal due to that little annoying corsican man, whose troops had invaded Portugal. This elevated the colony of Brazil to the status of kingdom...which eventually led to its independence in 1822 when the portuguese court's wanted it to go back to colony status(duh!).
The ship on the left side is part of the british escort the ones on the right side are portuguese.




HMS Victory



French frigate


V.

[Marten]

See this as an addition to Sir Beanes "Possible List of Ships in Empire". Just to give an idea of the dimensions and armament.

140 gun first-rate ship of the line
The "Valmy" is a bit out of the time frame. This ship would match the metioned "Infexible":
The spanish "Real Felipe" was with the French "Foydroyant" world largest ship in his time frame.



First rate ship of the line, a.ka Man-o-war
The french "Bretagne" from 1766: First carried 100 guns, in 1781 rebuilt up to 110 guns.



Second rate ship of the line
The spanish "San Carlos" built in 1765, carried 94 guns.



Third / Fourth rate ship of the line
The british "Resolution" from the late 17. century. In 1703 lost off the coast of Sussex ...



Fifth rate ship
The "USS Boston" from 1799. Inspired by the french heavy frigates ...



Sixth rate
Not really a "sixth rate" but would fit of the dimensions. The danish "Soeridderen" carried 18 guns.



Pictures taken from sailingwarships.com and Musée de la Marine Paris.

[Sir Beane]

Sailing ships are beautiful things aren't they? Never during any period of history has a navy ever looked so elegant, powerful and majestic. There's something poetic about the wind filling a ship's sails, carrying it over the sapphire waves and off into the sunset to find distant lands and blow up the inhabitants.

Empire will be worth it just to see such beautiful watery works of art in action. Even if naval combat sucks, the spectacle of seeing forty HD high-poly ships crusing across the blue will be wonderful.

I wonder if anyone is as big a fan of sailing ships as I am? Or does everyone else just appreciate them for their history and technical aspects? (Which are good to of course)

[Lusitani]

I wonder if anyone is as big a fan of sailing ships as I am? Or does everyone else just appreciate them for their history and technical aspects? (Which are good to of course)

Absolutely Sir Beane. They are just beatifull and majestic. Even though though i used to build many model kits (specially airplanes...the older and the weirder the better) I never got much into sailing ships because the ones available back then didnt really satisfy me. I have however a nice wood caravel waiting for me as soon as i can have some time to dedicate myself to it.
And of course...there was always Sid Meyers Pirates... lol.

V.

[Lusitani]

I really must repost this drawing of the "Eagle of Lubëck":





And...




V.

[Ituralde]

Sailing ships are beautiful things aren't they? Never during any period of history has a navy ever looked so elegant, powerful and majestic. There's something poetic about the wind filling a ship's sails, carrying it over the sapphire waves and off into the sunset to find distant lands and blow up the inhabitants.

Empire will be worth it just to see such beautiful watery works of art in action. Even if naval combat sucks, the spectacle of seeing forty HD high-poly ships crusing across the blue will be wonderful.

I wonder if anyone is as big a fan of sailing ships as I am? Or does everyone else just appreciate them for their history and technical aspects? (Which are good to of course)

You're definetly not the only one. It just has some special grace to see these huge wooden constructs moved by the force of the wind alone. Sliding along without making a sound. Well not too much anyway.
If there's ever a really good Sailing simulation for these big ships, I'd be the first to buy it.

And I really like the pictures and info you guys are posting. Keep them coming!

[Lusitani]

A few 16th Century ships...

A Caravel with latin sails(the upper drawing has square sails and was usually known as Round Caravel):



A Battle Caravel also known (in Portugal anyway as Caravela de Armada):



What a loaded "Nau" would look like:



A big "Nau" that was called Santa Catarina do Monte Sinai (Saint Catherine of Mount Sinai), built in India around 1512 had 140 guns:





V.

[Lusitani]

The portuguese galleon "São Martinho" (usually known erroneously as San Martín) the admiral ship of the "Spanish Armada" (actually the main battle galleons were all portuguese :P)


Another portuguese galleon the "São João Baptista":


They are both flying the spanish flags because...probably...these drawings were made under the "Invincible Armada" theme.

V.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

One thing that puzzles me here is that, beside xebecs and galleys, the ships mentioned are of a western european type. This raises some interesting questions, as regards the ships of the non-european factions, such as the Safavids and the Mughals. Either, they would sail around in european-style ships, which would seem a bit weird, or, their fleets will be very undedeveloped, which would give them a serious disadvantage. Personally, I hope that we will se some unique ships for these factions, however, there has, as of yet, been no hints as to what these ships could be.

[Sir Beane]

One thing that puzzles me here is that, beside xebecs and galleys, the ships mentioned are of a western european type. This raises some interesting questions, as regards the ships of the non-european factions, such as the Safavids and the Mughals. Either, they would sail around in european-style ships, which would seem a bit weird, or, their fleets will be very undedeveloped, which would give them a serious disadvantage. Personally, I hope that we will se some unique ships for these factions, however, there has, as of yet, been no hints as to what these ships could be.

If either of those factions ever became big sea powers they would probably have adopted the western designs, which were succesful and already in wide use. The fact is that historically they never had much use for large warships, and therefore we have no historical evidence for what a lineship belonging to them would have looked like.

It would be nice if CA took a guess at what a Ship of the Line would look like if made by India. We probably won't know until the game comes out.

[scipiosgoblin]

It would be nice if CA took a guess at what a Ship of the Line would look like if made by India. We probably won't know until the game comes out.

I don't know if India built and ships of the line, but I know they built several East Indiamen for use in the Pacific / Indian Ocean trade. They were banned from harbors in the UK (I forget why.) But several of them were converted to Frigates when the war with France began.

So they would probably look very similar to the European design.

SG

[Fisherking]

If either of those factions ever became big sea powers they would probably have adopted the western designs, which were succesful and already in wide use. The fact is that historically they never had much use for large warships, and therefore we have no historical evidence for what a lineship belonging to them would have looked like.

It would be nice if CA took a guess at what a Ship of the Line would look like if made by India. We probably won't know until the game comes out.

These article may be a bit nationalistic but they do offer some insight into India and its abilities.

Shipbuilding in India.
50 years before Independence, a 100 years ago, India was one of the largest ship building countries in the world. Indian shipbuilding was centered along the Western Coast in Kalyan, Bhivandi and Mumbai, in South India at Narsapurpeta (near Masulipatnam) and in Bengal at Chittagong and Hooghly. The “modern era” began with the building of a dry dock at Bombay about 1750; a second was erected in Calcutta about 1780. During the 19th century, the industry was in a period of expansion and prosperity. However, for the last 100 years, the yards have been in a general decline.
It is estimated that during Shivaji’s reign, more than 300 ships of 300 tons capacity were launched. The Wadias alone built more than 350 ships - during 1735-1863 170 war vessels for the East India Company, 34 man-of-war defence vessels for the British Navy, 87 merchant vessels for private firms, and three vessels for the Queen of Muscat at Bombay docks. After the formation of the Bombay Port Trust was formed in 1870, the shipbuilding on the Wester Coast moved to Mumbai. In 1872, Jamshedji Wadia, from a Parsi ship-building family, constructed the “Cornwallis”, a frigate with 50 guns, bought by the East India Company. This led to several orders from the British Navy.
Bengal was the other major port where ship building was for global markets. Chittagong was the center for shipbuilding (now in Bangladesh). The Turkish Navy (a major world power till WW1) was a major customer. The Mughal and British navies were the other significant defence customers. Merchants cargo ships were in significant demand. Ma Huan, the famous chronicler and interpreter of Zheng He (also called Cheng Ho) voyages, during the Ming dynasty, studied boat building in Bengal during the early 15th century (1400-1410).
The third major center for ship building was Narsapurpeta (near Masulipatnam) port - which was a major center of exports of steel, diamonds, saltpetre (potassium nitrate, for gunpowder, to kill Indians, Negroes, Aborigines and Red Indians with) from the Deccan plateau.
These buyers preferred Indian ships, because of better jointing technology and elimination of metal sheeting. Indian shipbuilders had a special system where wood was seasoned in partial vacuum, with oils for timber improvement. British shipbuilders, colonialists ensured through tariff and other barriers, that Indian shipbuilding “was prevented from continuing to develop, even though it had a proven ability to adapt to changing technological needs” - and thus finally killing it. Thus finally, British naval superiority was built on Indian ships - and paid for by exploitation of Indian resources.
In 1498, Vasco da Gama’s ocean-going ship, the Sao Gabriel came to India. The Portuguese caravel are well-known. But what do the Portuguese call their ocean-going ships? Nau. Yes, nau as in Hindi, for boat. Few of these Indian built ships have been recovered in various parts of the world. Indian shipbuilding expertise ruled the world - till colonialism killed it.


Hindu Compass;
There were Sanskrit terms for many parts of a ship. The ship's anchor was known as Nava-Bandhan-Kilaha which literally means 'A Nail to tie up a ship' . The sail was called Vata Vastra a which means 'wind-cloth'. The hull was termed StulaBhaga i.e. an'expanded area'. The rudder was called Keni-Pata, Pata means blade; the rudder was also known as Karna which literally means a 'ear' and was so called because it used to be a hollow curved blade, as is found today in exhaust fans. The ship's keel was called Nava-Tala which means 'bottom of a ship'. The mast was known as Kupadanda, in which danda means a pole.
Even a sextant was used for navigation and was called Vruttashanga-Bhaga. But what is more surprising is that even a contrived mariner's compass was used by Indian navigators nearly 1500 to 2000 years ago. This claim is not being made in an overzealous nationalistic spirit. This has in fact been the suggestion of an European expert, Mr. J.L. Reid, who was a member of the Institute of Naval Architects and Shipbuilders in England at around the beginning of the present century. This is what Mr. Reid has said in the Bombay Gazetteer, vol. xiii., Part ii., Appendix A.
"The early Hindu astrologers are said to have used the magnet, in fixing the North and East, in laying foundations, and other religious ceremonies. The Hindu compass was an iron fish that floated in a vessel of oil and pointed to the North. The fact of this older Hindu compass seems placed beyond doubt by the Sanskrit word Maccha Yantra, or fish machine, which Molesworth gives as a name for the mariner's compass".
It is significant to note that these are the words of a foreign Naval Architect and Shipbuilding Expert. It is thus quite possible that the Maccha Yantra (fish machine) was transmitted to the west by the Arabs to give us the mariner's compass of today.

[Lucidus]

Galley
Lateen rigged Mediterranean ship which can be rowed.
probably Ottoman Empire, Sweden,
Russia, Denmark and Norway, Poland-Lithuania, Venice, other Baltic and Med factions

And Portugal, in India.



Also Indo-Portuguese vessels were built in several shipyards in India (Goa, Daman, Baçaim) associating Portuguese techology to Indian native traits. They used to sail around the Malabar coasts.

But what do the Portuguese call their ocean-going ships? Nau. Yes, nau as in Hindi, for boat. Few of these Indian built ships have been recovered in various parts of the world.

Please elaborate :)


Reconstructing an India Nau

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/index_indianau00.htm

The virtual nau:

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/Index-virtualnau.htm

[Lusitani]

But what do the Portuguese call their ocean-going ships? Nau. Yes, nau as in Hindi, for boat. Few of these Indian built ships have been recovered in various parts of the world. Indian shipbuilding expertise ruled the world - till colonialism killed it.

We called it... Nau. Actually even nowadays many asiatic languages have many words of portuguese origin. So probably Nau is just one of them.

About the Oriental ships (at least in the 15th Century) most of the "ocean going ships" were either of arabic or far-eastern kind of ships like Dhows and Junks.

Indians did indeed a very straightforward shipbuilding industry. As far as I know most of the "local" ships were of the galley type, oar powered and latin rigged.
Actually that made the portuguese to adapt to many of those local types of ships to deal with the tactics used by the locals that often used the abundant estuaries to hide after raiding commerical shipping...where a Nau or a Galleon cant obviously follow.

I will try to get some pics of eastern shipping.

V.

[Lucidus]

Actually that made the portuguese to adapt to many of those local types of ships to deal with the tactics used by the locals that often used the abundant estuaries

Indo-Portuguese ship, 16th century.

So probably Nau is just one of them

Yes, it is.
1 -The Nau was introduced in the 1480´s, constructed with two decks-the first from stem to stern, covering the hold of the ship where the cargo was contained; the second, at stem, constituted the flooring of the forecastle. Weighing about 100-200 tons, it had three masts.: square-rigged, and with top-sails on the fore- and mainmasts,and lateen-rigged (triangular sails) on the mizzen( 3rd or aft) mast to assist the movement of the ship to windward.

2 - The Great Naus weighing 350 to 600 tons and well armed, were the mainstay of the cargo fleets. Madre de Deus weighed 1600 tons.

(The galleons, lighter and more agile, and well armed, was capable of dual military and commercial uses)

During the whole of the 15th century the Portuguese were piooners (previous link) in the technology of prefabrication of ships in Ribeira das Naus, in Lisbon, that could assembled elsewhere overseas in only 12 days.
The concept of "preventive maintenaince" was also introduced at this time, which led to the dismantling of a nau after 3 to 4 journeys for substitution of deteriorated components (15h century)
The same kit technique (prefabrication in Portugal)) would be used in the construction of fortresses (involving fortification,storehouses, and chapel), which method was applied for instance in São Jorge da Mina and Isle of Mozambique fortress.

[Fisherking]

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks guys for all of the work.


For those wishing to learn a bit more about ships, masts, sails, & rigging I have a link that will be somewhat informative. That way in the naval battles you will know what has been shot away if it doesn’t help you in any other way.


http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/square-rigging.html

[Marten]

Any speculations about the smallest ships in ETW? I've seen the Sloop on .com, maybe this isn't the smallest one? I was planning to bother my competitors in the baltic sea with half a dozen cutters (or sloops). And a squadron of 3-4 frigates for serious engagement ...

I would like to see one of these:



Was always fun to bring down some spaniards with 2 or 3 cutters in PotbS.

[Obadiah]

Bit o' trivia- the "square" sails are called that NOT because of their shape (they aren't really square, after all, base is longer than top), but because they're square (ie, 90 degrees) to the axis of movement.

Separately- I wonder if anyone else has ever sailed on a tall ship? I spent a month on Gazela, out of Philidelphia. If so, maybe we could start a new thread on that. But where would that thread belong? Prob not in the "Parliament"...