The Europa Barbarorum Quotes Project

[Prussian to the Iron]

This could be one:

Neither Philip II nor his son Alexander the Great even attempted to conquer Sparta: it was too weak to be a major threat that needed to be eliminated, but Spartan martial skill was still such that any invasion would have risked potentially high losses. Even during her decline, Sparta never forgot its claims on being the "defender of Hellenism" and its Laconic wit. An anecdote has it that when Philip II sent a message to Sparta saying "If I enter Laconia, I will level Sparta to the ground," the Spartans responded with the single, terse reply: "If."

[/Bean\]

I'd forgotten about that quote...wasn't it in Vanilla?

[Prussian to the Iron]

i dont think so. of course i havent played vanilla since probably...oh.....2006?

[Βελισάριος]

Wasn't it "Yes" that they replied?
I'll have to check that when I have time, I'm not 100% sure.

[Prussian to the Iron]

what? they wouldn't reply yes.......

[Cyrus]

No they replyed: "If".

[Prussian to the Iron]

thats what im saying

[oudysseos]

Hmmm. The point of this thread is accurate citation: I happen to know the source for that quote. Does anyone else?

Well I guess not:

Philip wrote at the time when he entered their [Sparta's] country, asking whether they wished that he should come as a friend or as a foe; and they made answer, "Neither."

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

Here's another good one:

When Philip of Macedon sent some orders to the Spartans by letter, they wrote in reply, "What you wrote about? No."

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

[/Bean\]

Those two are much more likely, but the original is much more heroic/classically romantic, don't you think?

[Prussian to the Iron]

Here's another good one:

When Philip of Macedon sent some orders to the Spartans by letter, they wrote in reply, "What you wrote about? No."

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

wait......what did he write about? i dont get it..................

[/Bean\]

Its a different version of your quote. He talks of the same thing. It's not really that confusing...

[Prussian to the Iron]

my head hurets. i need an advil.....

[Βελισάριος]

Hmmm. The point of this thread is accurate citation: I happen to know the source for that quote. Does anyone else?

Well I guess not:

Philip wrote at the time when he entered their [Sparta's] country, asking whether they wished that he should come as a friend or as a foe; and they made answer, "Neither."

Plutarch, Apophthegmata Laconica

Ah, there you go.
I'm fairly certain about the other quote, with their reply to his threats, but there is the possibility that some of the meaning may have been lost in translation.

I don't remember the above quote, but I like it!

[desert]

Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.

- Erwin Rommel

http://www.memorablequotations.com/rommel.htm

It's way out of our timeline, but it actually describes the Sharp, Pessimistic, Selfish, etc. traits pretty well.

[oudysseos]

Heh- that's a good one, Desert. Can't use it of course.

John117 - Did you take your advil? 'Cos the issue is really very simple: my goal is to confirm the original sources of our quotes, mate, not to throw in spurious "quotes" just because the sound cool. Your 'Spartans answering if' (which you cut-and-pasted from Wikipedia) is probably a paraphrase or mistranslation (by Norman Davies, I believe) of the Plutarch quote that I posted above: it's like "Play it again Sam", something that everybody thought was said but actually never really was. But if you can find the Greek text that's another story.

No original text (or accurate reference to same) = not in game.


Oh by the way, I have found the likely sources for the controversial Celtic quotes (although I have not tracked down the quotes themselves yet), and I have even found reference to the infamous 'Cycle of Don'. But the issue of Celtic quotations hasn't changed: there is no literature contemporary to our period: the earliest Irish manuscripts are 12th century, though they contain texts said to be copied from the 6th century on, these are still a good 700 years too late for us. I will put up some examples of the earliest Old Irish poetry but we probably won't use it.


I have a usable collection of quotes for EB2, although I will be happy to add to it if someone finds something really good. I have included many/most of the legitimate suggestions from this thread, as well as some surprises from our internal quotes thread. However, since it'll be a long wait, I am putting the finishing touches on a new quotes.txt for EB1. Coming soon!

P.S. John117? The latin in your joke is still wrong. 'Mihi martinum da'

[Prussian to the Iron]

oh thanks. ill change it immediately (even though i aced latin :P)

[oudysseos]

If you say so. Now how 'bout the bouncing boobs? Funny for about 12 seconds but gettin' old, chief.


Here's an example of old Irish poetry:

Lie na Rig i Femun,
Caithir Ronain i mBregun,
cian o ros-siachtar sina;
a lleicne nit senchrina.

The King's stone in Femen,
Ronan's Fort in Bregon;
Storms have long since reached them,
but their cheeks are not old and withered.

The Nun of Beare, PRIA LV, C, 83-109, trans. O'Connor

Borg Ailline uallach
at-bath lia shlog mbagach.

The proud settlement of Aillin has died with its boasting hosts.

Felire Oengusso, 23-27, trans. O'Connor

Gair a ilaig iar cach mbuaid
im chuail claideb, comtaig drend;
brig a fian fri indna gorm,
gloim a corn for cetaib cend.

The shout of its triumph after each victory round a tangle of swords,
a fiery encounter; the strength of its mercenary bands against the great battle array,
the shriek of its horns over hundreds of heads.

Book of Leinster (DIAS) 7148-251, trans. O'Connor

Beautiful stuff! But I probably won't put it in.

[Prussian to the Iron]

how about ancient hebrew texts? like about military and stuff.

[oudysseos]

Sure! Lay it on me! Especially if it's from the wider TaNaKh and not just what Christians call the Bible. Or Talmud/Mishnah, although it'll have to be reasonable germane to the period. But yeah, bring it on. Just be conscientious about the citation, please.

P.S. Not quite there on the Latin yet: the 2nd declension accusative plural ending is -os, not -i. For the joke to work you'll have to put it into the vocative. How, I don't know. Caesar is talking to his martine? (the plural vocative of martinus is martini). Or how about, Caesar: "This martinus is good". Bartender: "Don't you mean martini"? Caesar: "I haven't had that much to drink yet!"

[Prussian to the Iron]

i think mostly everybody gets what im saying, thats all that matters.

anyway, i didnt mean to say i had any, but i could definitely find some (i think battles bc is on tonight)

oh, how about what hasdrubal said to hannibal after cannae:

"Hannibal, you know how to gain a victory, but not how to use it."

and i sincerely hope "alea iacta est" is in there.

[oudysseos]

Yep, both those are in there. You might want to actually read the entire first post.

[Prussian to the Iron]

i didnt have time. i think the firs time i read it it was lie 11pm. you dont have patience to read al that at 11pm.

[oudysseos]

Hmmm. I don't know about you, but to avoid looking like I don't know what I'm talking about I usually read a thread before I post on it. Maybe that's just me.

Still looking for good EB quotes, people!

[brt]

"It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another"
Lucretius

Suave, mari magno turbantibus aequora ventis
e terra magnum alterius spectare laborem;

Lucretius, de rerum natura 2.1-2, translation as it is now seems fine to me, perhaps "sweet" instead of "pleasant"?

Btw, the Punic from Plautus, wouldnt that be mock Punic, more designed to make the audience laugh than to actually resemble the language?

[oudysseos]

No- the Punic from Plautus is generally held to be some of the largest surviving samples of Punic and is a major component of reconstruction. Look on Perseus: Plautus, Poenulus, act V. Long speech in Punic, for which I believe Plautus also provided a translation into Latin. Very important text.

Oh and thanks for the Lucretiut quote: the old EB quote has the source wrong. Good work.

[Cyrus]

Heh- that's a good one, Desert. Can't use it of course.

What exactly is stopping you? The fact that it's out of the timeframe?

[Mediolanicus]

P.S. Not quite there on the Latin yet: the 2nd declension accusative plural ending is -os, not -i. For the joke to work you'll have to put it into the vocative. How, I don't know. Caesar is talking to his martine? (the plural vocative of martinus is martini). Or how about, Caesar: "This martinus is good". Bartender: "Don't you mean martini"? Caesar: "I haven't had that much to drink yet!"

Meh, oudysseos, you're right but a joke is a joke. I think it's fairly good one on top of that. I think it should stay the way it is.

on topic: I saw a great book today. I can't recall the author but the book was called "History in Quotes". I immediately thought of you. It's 600 or 700 pages of historical and recent quotes about history itself or historical events with their reference and some additional information.

It was only €16,95. But I'm afraid even that's a bit too much for a book I won't actually read (no, I'm not going to read 700 pages of quotes and references...)

Gah, I'm doubting to buy it.

[machinor]

How about this one on the foundation of the Pontic Kingdom:

καὶ ὁ ̓Αντίγονος ἐνύπνιον ἔδοξε πεδίον σπει̂ραι χρυσίῳ, καὶ τὸ χρυσίον ἐκθερίσαντα τὸν Μιθριδάτην ἐς τὸν Πόντον οἴχεσθαι. καὶ ὁ μὲν αὐτὸν ἐπὶ τῳ̂δε συλλαβὼν ἐβούλετο ἀποκτει̂ναι, ὁ δ' ἐξέφυγε σὺν ἱππευ̂σιν ἕξ, [καὶ φραξάμενός τι χωρίον τη̂ς Καππαδοκίας, πολλω̂ν οἱ προσιόντων ἐν τῃ̂δε τῃ̂ Μακεδόνων ἀσχολίᾳ,] Καππαδοκίας τε αὐτη̂ς καὶ τω̂ν ὁμόρων περὶ τὸν Πόντον ἐθνω̂ν κατέσχεν

Antigonos [Monophthalmos] had a dream that he had sowed a field with gold, and that Mithridates reaped it and carried it off to Pontus. He accordingly arrested him, intending to put him to death, but Mithridates escaped with six horsemen, [fortified himself in a stronghold of Cappadocia, where many joined him in consequence of the decay of the Macedonian power,] and possessed himself of the whole of Cappadocia and of the neighboring countries along the Euxine.

Appian, The Mithridatic Wars, II.9 (That part in brackets may be omitted)

The Pontic scythed chariots hit the Bithynian lines:

καὶ τοι̂ς Βιθυνοι̂ς τὰ δρεπανηφόρα ἅρματα ἐμπίπτοντα μετὰ ῥύμης διέκοπτε καὶ διέτεμνε τοὺς μὲν ἀθρόως ἐς δύο τοὺς δ' ἐς μέρη πολλά. τό τε γιγνόμενον ἐξέπληττε τὴν στρατιὰν του̂ Νικομήδους, ὅτε ἴδοιεν ἡμιτόμους ἄνδρας ἔτι ἔμπνους, ἢ ἐς πολλὰ διερριμμένους, ἢ τω̂ν δρεπάνων ἀπηρτημένους.

At the same time the scythe-bearing chariots made a charge on the Bithynians, cutting some of them in two, and tearing others to pieces. The army of Nicomedes was terrified at seeing men cut in halves and still breathing, or mangled in fragments and their parts hanging on the scythes.

Appian, The Mithridatic Wars, III.18


Talk about psychological warfare and traumatized soldiers...

[/Bean\]

Ooh I like them...nice stuff Machinor

[machinor]

Thanks. Appian's telling of the Mithridatic Wars is actually quite a good read. I just found another good one. At the battle of Orchomenus the Roman soldiers are frightened by the superior Pontic cavalry and are about to rout. Sulla's reaction:


... ἐξήλατο του̂ ἵππου, καὶ σημει̂ον ἁρπάσας ἀνὰ τὸ μεταίχμιον ἔθει μετὰ τω̂ν ὑπασπιστω̂ν, κεκραγώς: "εἴ τις ὑμω̂ν, ὠ̂ ̔Ρωμαι̂οι, πύθοιτο, που̂ Σύλλαν τὸν στρατηγὸν ὑμω̂ν αὐτω̂ν προυδώκατε, λέγειν, ἐν ̓Ορχομενῳ̂ μαχόμενον."

[Sulla] leaped from his horse, seized a standard, ran out between the two armies with his shield-bearers, exclaiming, "If you are ever asked, Romans, where you abandoned Sulla, your general, say that it was at the battle of Orchomenus."

Appian, The Mithridatic Wars, VII.46


One might also only quote the part Sulla shouts, but I think the whole thing about him jumping off his horse and running in between the two armies with a standard is quite cool too. Also note: the Greek text uses the term "hypaspiston" (also "shield-bearers" in this translation) for his bodyguards.