Will you add offices for Romani with the same dual system?

[Atraphoenix]

As you may know, I have a submod for adding offices in which I used your Romani and AS offices module in the ancillary file. I have added offices for pahlava, and all hellenic factions at the moment.
I am just wondering will you use same dual system for romani namely; will you use both traits and ancillaries to get offices for romani or do you have other plans?
I am planning to adapt my mod when you released EB2 for kingdoms and also I am seriously planning to add offices for Romani as ancillaries only.
At the moment I am busy to read how to mod kingdoms for my mod.
your answers will be appreciated.

Atra.

P.S. Although I have no hope on it but is the hardcode for ancillaries same with RTW, namely maximum 8 ancillaries with kingdoms?

[BozosLiveHere]

Yes, we can only have 8 ancillaries on Kingdoms as well. And I pretend to use traits only. It's harder to code right (especially with the kind of mechanics we're implementing) but I believe it's much better.

[bobbin]

Is there any way to limit the number of ancillaries FM's can have to 7 so theres always a free slot for the player to swap them? As currently if you have say a FM with the full 8 ancillaries that has the doctor ancillary and you want to give it to another that also has 8 then you have to find another FM with a free slot and do some playing around till the doctor is in the right place.
Just a thought but it would make life a lot eaiser in EB.

[V.T. Marvin]

Yes, we can only have 8 ancillaries on Kingdoms as well. And I pretend to use traits only. It's harder to code right (especially with the kind of mechanics we're implementing) but I believe it's much better.

I understand your reasons for prefering traits, but I will add my case for giving ancillaries a greater role as well:
- being limited in number, the ancillaries are more easily visible - thus more promient - than traits are, therefore allowing for differentiation whereby the most important offices could (and IMHO should) be represented by ancillaries, rather than traits.
- ancillaries are interchangeble among FMs, thus allowing for better role-playing. For example, during the crises of the Second Punic War, important commands were entrusted to men, who did not fulfilled the official requirements (age, for instance) - the must notable would be Scipio, future Africanus. If certain offices (in my mind especially important army commands) were ancillaries, it would allow the player to make such emergency assignments as necessary for RP purposes.
- in later stage, when the number of FMs grows beyond the point where the player is capable to properly track the development of all his characters, the both aspects of ancillaries - visibility and transferability - allows him to focus on a few important characters and leave the rest to do the boring stuff like governig safe hinterland cities.

Overall, I have to say that I consider the EB 1.x system of Roman triats and ancillaries te provinces!!!) as very near to perfection!

What I miss is the implementation of something similar to other factions - as Atraphoenix is trying to do with his submod - and possibly giving to all faction one or two banners (ancillaries) which woud represent the most important army commands (like "consular" armies or "royal" armies) and where appropriate an ancillary representing the most important civil office (as "the High Chancellor") that would suit the governor in the capital in faction leader´s absence.

[Atraphoenix]

Yes, we can only have 8 ancillaries on Kingdoms as well. And I pretend to use traits only. It's harder to code right (especially with the kind of mechanics we're implementing) but I believe it's much better.

thanks for your replies.

I just want to say something why I will use ancillaries .

1-You cannot change trait offices to the family member you want to give. but you can give the offices to any family member or general easily via ancillaries.

2-offices are titles not a personality thing or personal earning. so you cannot omit an "ambitious" "womanizer" etc. from a person. but offices are not personal it is an official title and the officers bears the seal of the office. throughout the history offices was given to the candidates that the kings would find suitable. and of course they sometimes were stripped of titles .

3- I want to solve the duality that you know you have roman governors as ancillaries, magistares as traits that I found illogical.

..............................

I think you will use same system but I will use a unique system in my mod that means I will delete trait offices and code them as ancillaries.

As my trial would be a submod of your great mod (best mod for me thanks a lot ) so the last user will decide wether to use my system or not

My main ambition to make the mod more realistic. so I hope we can share some good stuff to make EB more enjoyable and better.

P.S. I hope we will not create more addicts like me , though. just joking
I forgot to say what if we code shardar, shahanshah, emperor etc. as ancillaries as you know we cannot select faction heir any more with M2TW exe :-( can we hide family screen and can text messages like "faction leader died" be triggered with ancillaries?
I tried but failed cos my scripting is terrific in comparison to my traits and ancillary modding.

[BozosLiveHere]

thanks for your replies.

I just want to say something why I will use ancillaries .

1-You cannot change trait offices to the family member you want to give. but you can give the offices to any family member or general easily via ancillaries.

2-offices are titles not a personality thing or personal earning. so you cannot omit an "ambitious" "womanizer" etc. from a person. but offices are not personal it is an official title and the officers bears the seal of the office. throughout the history offices was given to the candidates that the kings would find suitable. and of course they sometimes were stripped of titles .

3- I want to solve the duality that you know you have roman governors as ancillaries, magistares as traits that I found illogical.

1- That is not true in M2TW.

2- So?

3- I agree, we just decided to solve this problem by different means.

[Atraphoenix]

Methinks many prefers ancillaries for offices, I like for example the system of Long Road for M2TW.
and maybe instead of factional offices one common governor for each factions would be time saving but I prefer factional titles as you did in current for the local titles I like.
but I do not know which one you decide, I think I will add crown offices, like ewenbed, (Eran)spahbeh, archistretegos, It will need same module you used now. So If you keep your module you do me a great favour to mod. If you you decide to add the offices local or crown (dynastic) that I used in my mod or extra ones as well, I never accepted my mode is completed, I will admit my mission for my mod is over.

P.S. I will be really very happy if you add the offices that I used with my mod for EB2, and of course you can change the triggers or any of my codes whatever you want to change.

I think the team agrees that office or goverment system of the factions should be represented it may be via ancillaries or traits.

[Tellos Athenaios]

AFAIK One of the main benefits Ancillaries used to have is that there are global triggers to check if a certain ancillary is in use somewhere already. So you can limit the number of Proconsuls Of Sicilia to 1 at a time. However, with M2TW you can just as easily set a (global) counter which means that for all intents and purposes: queueing up a maximum number of ancillaries with things that are unique to one given general at any time is a much worse proposition from efficiency P.O.V. You're (not you personally, whomever-used-ancillaries) using expensive resources when there are cheap ones available. Thus the question is: are ancillaries worth their cost (a personal decision) ?

Now the swapping of ancillaries is sadly limited: a person may have only 8 ancillaries and in the rich hunting grounds of useless retinue a general (especially governors) get to that limit pretty quickly (it has on more than 1 occasion ruined my plans for transferring control of Satrapies...). So if you can exchange traits via script now... We get again the same cheap-v.s.-expensive implementation of the feature. Of course you have a genuine trade-off here: swapping traits is not directly drag/drop built into the system as swapping ancillaries is, so you get the overhead of having to carry your own UI of sorts (advice threads).

Of course, conceptually there is a difference between a trait and a office. Then again, there is a difference between retinue and office as well.

[Atraphoenix]

I agree with your words but a simply solve full candidates with rookie generals or FM I mostly I give rookie FM poet/magi etc. and give the military offices to sharp/charismatic/vigorous ones.

but methinks many may have tendency for ancillaries for offices because of the seal or banner namely image of ancillary.

I must confess that RTW exes is more suitable for my mod.

BTW I am sure you will solve it until the release phase of EB2.
These days I am missing "the scrolls of mtw" the first ancillary system of CA. you could give the offices just by dropping the scrolls and to strip send an emissary and punish the corrupted generals.
I still claim that mtw AI was much better than RTW series.

P.S. I forgot to say modding ancillaries is easier and safer than modding traits. That is why I gave up modding you client ruler system then I started to mod ancillaries.