Kyrene - A case for a new Faction

[Phalanx300]

Kyrene – A case for a new Faction

A short History from Wikipedia:

The Greek period:
Cyrene was founded in 630 BC as a colony of the Greeks from the Greek island of Thera, traditionally led by Battus I, ten miles from its port, Apollonia (Marsa Sousa). Details concerning the founding of the city are contained in Book IV of Histories, by Herodotus of Halicarnassus. It promptly became the chief town of ancient Libya and established commercial relations with all the Greek cities, reaching the height of its prosperity under its own kings in the 5th century BC. Soon after 460 BC it became a republic. In 413 BC, during the Peloponnesian War, Cyrene supplied Spartan forces with two triremes and pilots.[1] After the death of Alexander III of Macedon (323 BC), the Cyrenian republic became subject to the Ptolemaic dynasty.
Ophelas, the general who occupied the city in Ptolemy I's name, ruled the city almost independently until his death, when Ptolemy's son-in-law Magas received governorship of the territory. In 276 BC Magas crowned himself king and declared de facto independence, marrying the daughter of the Seleucid king and forming with him an alliance in order to invade Egypt. The invasion was unsuccessful and in 250 BC, after Magas' death, the city was reabsorbed into Ptolemaic Egypt. Cyrenaica became part of the Ptolemaic empire controlled from Alexandria, and became Roman territory in 96 BC when Ptolemy Apion bequeathed Cirenaica to Rome. In 74 BC the territory was formally transformed into a Roman province.



Information on the faction leader Magas Kyrenaios:

Magas of Cyrene (r. 276 - 250 BCE) was a Greek king of Cyrene (today's Libya). He managed to wrestle independence for Cyrene from the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. Magas was the son of Berenice and Philip, a Macedonian noble man, before Berenice remarried with the powerful Ptolemy I Soter, founder of the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty in Egypt. Magas was a half-brother to their son, Ptolemy II Philadelphus, the second Ptolemy ruler of Egypt.

Magas received the governorship of Cyrene from his mother Berenice. Following the death of Ptolemy I, however, Magas tried on several occasions to wrestle independence for Cyrene, until he crowned himself king around 276 BCE. Magas then married Apama, the daughter of the Seleucid Empire king Antiochus I Soter, and used his marital alliance to foment a pact to invade Egypt. Apama and Magas had a daughter called Berenice II, who was their only child. He opened hostilities against his half brother Ptolemy II Philadelphus in 274 BCE, attacking Egypt from the west, as Antiochus I was attacking Palestine. However, Magas had to cancel his operations due to an internal revolt of the Libyan nomad Marmaridae. In the east, Antiochus I suffered defeat against the armies of Ptolemy Philadelphus. Magas at least managed to maintain the independence of Cyrene until his death in 250 BCE, upon which the kingdom was almost immediately reabsorbed by Ptolemaic Egypt.



As you can see Kyrene would make for a interesting faction, under king Magas it declared its independence in 276 BC, just 4 years before the starting date of the mod. He was even able to attack the Ptolemaioi land!

Gameplay wise it would form a buffer state between Carthage and Ptolemaioi, it would also force Ptolemaioi to fight on two fronts and thus making a yellow death less likely.

Kyrene would start out allied with Arche Seleukeia and as an enemy with the Ptolemaioi.

They would start out with the province of Kyrenaia:



Victory Conditions (To be updated):





Possible Unit List(using Koinon and Ptolemaioi Recruitment viewer province information):

Units Mic Level

Toxotai Level:2
Thureophoroi Level:3
Thorakitai Level:4
Sphendonetai Level:2
Peltastai Level:2
Pantodapoi Level:1
Machimoi Phalangitai Level:2
Machimoi Hippeis Level:3
Lonchophoroi Hippeis Level:4
Klerouchoi Phalangitai Level:3
Agema Klerouchon Hippeon Level:4
Klerouchon Agema Level:4
Hoplitai Level:3
Hippakontistai Level:1
Mistophoros Strategos Level:5
Akontistai Level:1
Lonchophoroi Hippeis Level:4
Iphikratous Hoplitai Level:3
Hoplitai Haploi Level:1
Hippeis Level:3
Ekdromoi Hoplitai Level:2


They would be a mix between the Koinen Hellenon and Ptolemaioi.
A Hellenic city with many Hoplite soldiers but also with many successor influences and Klerouchoi and native soldiers!


They start out with (exact units Kyrene rebels have ingame):

In city Kyrene:
Magas Kyrenaios (54 years) – Lonchoporoi Hippeis
1 Klerouchoi Phalangitai
1 Hoplitai
2 Hoplitai Haploi
1 Peltastai
2 Akontistai
1 Spendonetai
1 Machimoi Hippeis

Outside Kyrene:
Philon (27 years) – Machimoi Hippeis
2 Hoplitai
2 Akontistai
2 Machimoi Phalangitai



Faction symbols could be:



Alexander with horns of Zeus-Ammon, Grain Symbol for wealth of Kyrene.



Better coin of Alexander with horns of Zeus-Ammon.








Zeus-Ammon, probably a winner!


Sources:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrene,_Libya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magas_of_Cyrene

http://www.aeqvitas.com/photo.php?te...recanned=Greek

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/marksj.../epic-sg2.html

http://www.urth.org/whorlmap/quetzal.htm

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/c...n_original.jpg

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greec...aphytis/i.html

[Reverend Joe]

That's pretty darn impressive; the only problem I can see is that Cyrenia would almost never last more than a few turns except if controlled by a human player. Of course, the same is often true with Pontos; but even then Pontos only needs to face one giant, whereas Cyrenia would find itself facing two, with no place to expand, as there would be no nearby neutral provinces.

[Phalanx300]

Well they don't start with bad relations with Carthage, Kyrene has the opertunity to snatch some Ptolemy territories away. That added with Seleucids in Palestina definately gives it a chance to survivce.

Though not much direct rebel territories for it to conquer, just two. Then again the factions leader has Egypt in mind.

[/Bean\]

Wouldnt that wipe the Ptolemaoi out really early?

I am all for a faction between Egypt and Carthage though.

[Hax]

Historically, did Kyrene wish to expand?

[abou]

Yes, but it was short lived. Magas of Kyrene entered into an alliance with Antiochos I to attack Ptolemaic holdings, but the support from Antiochos never materialized. Magas' assault ended with lackluster results, to say the least.

[Phalanx300]

From the Biography from EB (yes he has one ) it says that his first attacked failed because of a Libyan rebellion and afterwards peace was made with the Ptolemies I believe. With Magas his daughter marrying and getting kids with the new Ptolemy.

Anyways, it would make for a nice faction . I wouldn't really worry about the Yellow death getting destroyed. I mean how many factions do the Seleucids face?

[antisocialmunky]

I would say include some more land(islands, Magna Grecia, etc) to their victory conditions to make it a little more challenging for the human. The main issue from the gameplay point of view is whether or not the logistics can support the faction fighting Egypt(settlements need to be easier to stand up for Kyrene - and have good native/faction units - rather than Ptoly). It would also be more playable if they had some decent hoplite-type heavy infantry units. Does anyone know what they fielded?

[lenin96]

Maybe Krete, Meroe and Axum shouldd be added to their victory conditions?

[Jolt]

Expanding West up to modern Tunisia would also make sense to be implemented in the victory conditions.

[Megas Methuselah]

Expanding West up to modern Tunisia would also make sense to be implemented in the victory conditions.

Would it?

[Ibrahim]

My god!

never mind. interesting-there were people depicted with horns on them-what's up with that?

[Megas Methuselah]

Alexander with horns of Zeus-Ammon, Grain Symbol for wealth of Kyrene.


Better coin of Alexander with horns of Zeus-Ammon.

[Phalanx300]

I think we could better settle with a god then with a general . And Zeus Ammon, especially on the last coin looks quite good.


Anyways, I updated the victory conditions. I think that some coastline of Asia Minor would also be in order with Syria as well? Together with some more Carthage coastline with Magna Greacia as well. (+ Rhodes)

[MButcher]

As far as victory conditions, I think that conquering as far west as Carthage is unrealistic.

I agree that Egypt should be in there and it's starting possessions, because of Kyrene's dealings with the Ptolemaioi.

As for the west, Lepki would be believable because of the contest that the two cities had over territories (that running match that's in Lepki's biography).

[Jolt]

Would it?

Geographically close, connected by land, plus with the fact that Libyans also had made part of Tunisia.

[Phalanx300]

As far as victory conditions, I think that conquering as far west as Carthage is unrealistic.

I agree that Egypt should be in there and it's starting possessions, because of Kyrene's dealings with the Ptolemaioi.

As for the west, Lepki would be believable because of the contest that the two cities had over territories (that running match that's in Lepki's biography).

Well Pontos also has to capture many miles inland of Tracian and Dacian land, which also isn´t really realistic.

Carthage is right next to them so it would be quite logical of them to expand that way. See the expansion of the Romans, they conquered all ways but not with Rome being a border city, a center city.

[eddy_purpus]

Niiiice New case....
Good-ly presented ...
Decently described ...

Id give this a good 8 out of 10 ;)

[Cyclops]

My first thought was "meh, show me the Mauryans" but thats my first thought on any given day. On reflection Kyrene was a serious local player, with an expansionist hellenistic leader, and its definitely consistent with factions like KH and Hai as something that could be big.

If factions could revive (oh please yes) then even though they might be conquered easily they would make a nice rebel threat to the Ptolemies (or the Hai, once I lead my armoured horsemen down the Levant to conquer the Nile).

Would it?

IIRC there's a wonder in the province west of Kyrene which is the tomb of two brothers (etc etc...) that suggests that Poeni and Hellenes had entered into serious negotiations as to who owned that strip of land. I think thats a reasonable basis for giving them at least one VC province to their west.

Maybe Kyrene could be interested in islands as well?

[Hax]

My main problem is, how would Kyrene's gameplay really differ from Ptolemaioi/Koinon Hellenon play?

[Phalanx300]

We could say the same of Pergamon and Pontos. Its definatelly a whole other experience down there!

[Krusader]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, as the presenation is good.

However, take this into consideration. There are currently 22 factions revealed and there will be 30 factions.

Epeiros
Makedonia
Koinon Hellenon
Ptolemaioi
Pergamon
Pontos
Arche Seleukeia
Baktria

...these 8 factions are all Hellenistic, out of a grand total of 30 factions. Meaning almost 30% or over a quarter of our factions are Hellenistic, so that is a counterargument too. While the Greeks rightfully should have most factions at this time period, EB wants to give all cultures "an equal chance in the spotlight".

And to clarify...there are 8 factions still not revealed. There is a chance 1 or more of them can be Hellenistic factions as well, so no need to ask that question.

[Hax]

We could say the same of Pergamon and Pontos. Its definatelly a whole other experience down there!

Pergamon and Pontos both would have access to large variety of Greek, Thracian and Galatian troops. Kyrene would have the Greek hoplites combined with what? Nubian infantry? Machimoi? Garamantines? There is little variety in the south, compared with Asia Minor and Thrace.

Pontos is not Hellenic. It is philhellenic, yes, but they are still a Persianide kingdom.

[Phalanx300]

Pergamon and Pontos both would have access to large variety of Greek, Thracian and Galatian troops. Kyrene would have the Greek hoplites combined with what? Nubian infantry? Machimoi? Garamantines? There is little variety in the south, compared with Asia Minor and Thrace.

Pontos is not Hellenic. It is philhellenic, yes, but they are still a Persianide kingdom.

Kyrene would have a large force of Hellenes but also many natives!

A mix between the Koinen Hellenon and Ptolemies. And if they conquer the Ptolies and basicly replace them then it can be sure that they would also make good use of local troops like the Galatians!

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, as the presenation is good.

However, take this into consideration. There are currently 22 factions revealed and there will be 30 factions.

Epeiros
Makedonia
Koinon Hellenon
Ptolemaioi
Pergamon
Pontos
Arche Seleukeia
Baktria

...these 8 factions are all Hellenistic, out of a grand total of 30 factions. Meaning almost 30% or over a quarter of our factions are Hellenistic, so that is a counterargument too. While the Greeks rightfully should have most factions at this time period, EB wants to give all cultures "an equal chance in the spotlight".

And to clarify...there are 8 factions still not revealed. There is a chance 1 or more of them can be Hellenistic factions as well, so no need to ask that question.

2 New factions have been released? Care to explain which is the second one?

Personally I hope that besides Pergamon there will be another Hellenic heavilly influenced faction, which is a given seeing that there is a Hellenic occultus unit!

Kyrene had the chance on becoming a big power at this time so who knows! What I would give to see the new faction list !



Edit: I updated the victory conditions again! More eastern shore seemed like the logical thing. I'm wondering whether Bostra and Meroe and that far Lybian territory also need to be included.

[antisocialmunky]

Getting oreoed between good unit quality Carthage and very numerous Ptoly would be fairly fun I think. The KH is pretty much 'move north' and conquer Demetrias to win the game. Kyrene would also hopefully keep the Carthiginians on their toes so they don't ship out every unit to Sicily so the Romans can land a hail mary and take Carthage's core cities.

[PraetorFigus]

I like the idea, but I wonder what the EB team has in store for the new factions.

Can't wait for the next preview (whenever it's ready)!

[athanaric]

However, take this into consideration. There are currently 22 factions revealed and there will be 30 factions.

Call me stupid, but what is the 22nd faction? Is it the Eleutheroi?


Btw, I enjoyed this presentation. I dunno though if it would be necessary for Kyrene to conquer Qart-Hadast and Atiqa. Were they really that aggressive in westward expansion?

[Rilder]

Call me stupid, but what is the 22nd faction? Is it the Eleutheroi?

Its been hinted that there's going to be another Nomad faction, No specifics though.

[antisocialmunky]

Something to make Eastern Europe more itneresting would be great. Another German or Steppe tribe would be great.

[Krusader]

22nd faction was a mistake on my part. I was thinking 21 EB1 factions + Pergamon and then forgot it included Eleutheroi.

Although maybe that nomad faction will be revealed sooner than later...