What suggested faction should be in EBII

[A Very Super Market]

Everyone should really read the other threads in the forum about certain factions being put into place. Simply posting a poll, or responding with quiet one-sentence agreements will not convince anybody.

[APX]

Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone want Syrakousai as a new faction? What contributions to the game does a small unruly city-state have to offer compared to the other possible factions?

[Ibrahim]

Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone want Syrakousai as a new faction? What contributions to the game does a small unruly city-state have to offer compared to the other possible factions?

more fun on Sicily I guess..

[Tanit]

Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone want Syrakousai as a new faction? What contributions to the game does a small unruly city-state have to offer compared to the other possible factions?

Since you asked, I will pardon your ignorance.

Syracuse was one of the largest and most impressive Greek cities of this era. It was on the list of the most impressive Greek cities together with Pergamon and Alexandria. Just prior to the EB time frame Syracuse controlled colonies and territories in southern Italy, Illyria, Cyrene and on a number of islands. Italy withstood multiple Carthaginian invasions over a long period of time while the two wars between Rome and Carthage nearly destroyed Rome. Agathocles even invaded North Africa and threatened to conquer Carthage had his African allies not switched sides. Syracuse regularly controlled 2/3 of Italy and only recently lost control of their Northern territories to the Mammertines. Syracuse was a center of learning and culture with a number of impressive monumental structures including fortresses and temples. It was the home of one of history's greatest minds, Archimedes (who is 15 in 272 btw). Syracuse was capable of operating under a number of different governments from its typical oligarchy to a tyranny or a kingdom as occurred under Hiero, who was himself under the patronage of Pyrrhus, having been one of his generals. Syracuse's assistance in the first Punic war was what assured Roman victory as several times the Carthaginians came close to victory by disrupting Roman supply lines only for Syracuse to step in with supplies and troops. Syracuse was the home of the invention of the Gastraphetes and other siege weapons which lead to a dynamic evolution of siege warfare in the mediterranean. Although the current EB1 Greek cultures are west Greek and East Greek, this is inaccurate as the western Greeks were really the colonies west of Greece, of which Syracuse is the most powerful and influential in our time frame. Without the politics of Syracuse the Punic wars would not have started the way they did, and may not have ended the way they did.

[Cute Wolf]

At least... we can tell, what factions that most of the orgah's want to be in EB II..... this is why i say this thread is useful...

@APX
Syracuse was selected because most people wants it rise again... if you tell that's Syracuse getting crashed to the ground soon with Roman troops.... You should look Epeiros.... Pyrhhos historically dies in 272 BC, and kingdom of Epeiros was destroyed... sooner than Syracuse...

[Alsatia]

Pyrhhos dies in 272BC...


LOL. Historically, you can only have fun with him for 1 - 3 turns.

[artaxerxes]

really for Syracuse to work efficiently Sicily must be expanded to say 6 settlements or more to represent how important that region is for all the factions involved and to increase the projected yield per say

I think it could work. Of course there are those games where either Carthage or Rome blitzes southern Italy/Sicily and in those, Syracuse would probably (if hostile to the blitzer) merely be another hindrance that's overcome with time. But I've had plenty of games where Rome and Carthage concentrate in other areas and I think Syracuse would work delightfully then. I don't really see the problem.

As for why we want them in
1) since they historically had made empires in Sicily before, and since the appearance of Rome/Carthage as the only masters of the Western Mediterranean ISNT necessarily a foregone conclusion at the start of an EB game, it should have the chance to maybe do so again

2) It would spice things up, so the Western Mediterranean isn't merely a 1-on-1, but, like most any other place in the game, has a few more pockets of surprise

3) They'd be fun to play

[Cute Wolf]

4-5 region is enough in sicily... just give Syrakousai an advanced mining facility

[Meneldil]

There's more than enough settlement in the area. I doubt Sicily will get more than 3 in any case. Permanent forts maybe, more settlement ? Nah.

[zurab]

Voted for Colkhis but there must me Caucasian Iberia instead. C.I. was a kingdom then. And Colchis partialy was a province of Pontus and partialy of Caucasian Iberia. Pontus's part of Colchis then to become Rome province, and only in 200-300 years Colkhis will establish a new independent Kingdom - Lazika or Egrisi

[bobbin]

Yeah i also voted for Colchis as Kartli wasn't there.

ps looks like we can take numdians off the list.

[Cyclops]

I would love the Mauryans in but I see its highly unlikely. Maybe they could be given Iberian culture (on the same premise that Saba and Lussotannan share regional MIC's) that there is very little potential cross-over. Anyway thats more of a whim on my part. I am super impressed with all the decuisons so far in EB2, I just can't wait to see the final slots filled.

... Syracuse regularly controlled 2/3 of Italy ...

I think you mean 2/3 of Sicly? Just a typo I guess. I can't diminish the force of your case, your argument is very sound and I reckon Syracuse is a strong proposal for a faction.

[Sabazios]

I would like a Cyrene faction, wich also includes Crete and maybe even a city on the Cyclade islands (Thera?).

[lionhard]

Nubia - for a start because EB could use a new faction in that area, it would also add a much needed southernly located faction with different unit properties as seen before.

Bosporian Kingdom - This faction would have been added to EB1 if their was space, this has to feature full stop

Nabatea - Seems to have a historic foot step and would be a nice add to that area.

Numidia - Doesnt need to be explianed, more than enough space for this faction

[Mediolanicus]

1.Nubia - for a start because EB could use a new faction in that area, it would also add a much needed southernly located faction with different unit properties as seen before.

2.Bosporian Kingdom - This faction would have been added to EB1 if their was space, this has to feature full stop

3.Nabatea - Seems to have a historic foot step and would be a nice add to that area.

4.Numidia - Doesnt need to be explianed, more than enough space for this faction

1. Can't be done unless someone finds a way to open up more culture slots.

2. Agreed.

3. I doubt the historical importance of Nabateia, but I'd like to see an extra faction in that area too.

4. It's already in EBII.

[lionhard]

Question for u, is their the same amount of factions in EB2 as EB1 or more?

[Foot]

Question for u, is their the same amount of factions in EB2 as EB1 or more?

As stated in the FAQ and numerous threads, MTW2 offers us 10 new faction slots in addition to the 20 that we have in EBI. EBII will thus have 30 playable factions, the majority of which will be the factions you know and love however. We aren't going to go and change all the factions from EBI, of course!

Foot

[Andronikos]

Nabatea - seems interesting, would make that area more crowded,
some Germanic tribe (voted for Boii despite being not Germanic) to make life tough for Sweboz,
Basternae to fill that area,
Belgae, but I would like to see them starting both on mainland and British isles.

[lionhard]

Its located above arabia where the sabeen are and you have to venture miles to reach sabeen on EB so i think their shud be plenty.

P.s the game is sounding better an better

[Alsatia]

Does anybody realise there is a huge eleutheroi gap between Dacia and Germany?

[bobbin]

Which would be filled excellently by the Boii or Lugii, and you'll note the Boii are a very popular choice for a new faction.

[Alsatia]

Which would be filled excellently by the Boii or Lugii, and you'll note the Boii are a very popular choice for a new faction.

........

Yep.

[Kara Mustafa]

Voted for:
Boii - one of the most powerful of celtic tribes, plus interesting starting position in central Europe
Celtiberi - hopefully Arevaci or some other tribe will make it to stop the insane Lusitani
Nabatea - already explained by many
Atropatene - not much place in the East leaves only a few possible candidates, among them I think this would be the best option
Nubia - just a wish I guess, would distract Ptolemies from becoming Yellow death once again

[Viking_Wårlord]

Another Germanic tribe would be great,I also voted for Judea (even if it wouldn't historically cope....) because I think Jews are UNDER-REPRESENTED in games!

[Mediolanicus]

I think Jews are UNDER-REPRESENTED in games!

They were a backwater people at that time like so many other people not really represented in EB - though they did have slightly odd view on religion for the time. They even have their own unit and in that respect I would say they are OVER-REPRESENTED, since jews were not put in seperate units.

[Viking_Wårlord]

Over-represented?

Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?

The answer is definitly NO.

Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.

[Alsatia]

Over-represented?

Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?

The answer is definitly NO.

Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.

Sorry, to bug in but, You can play the Kingdom of Israel in Empire Earth. (Btw, it's too old and ..... let's just say graphically impaired)

[Hax]

Over-represented?

Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?

The answer is definitly NO.

Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.

Nonsense. The Kingdom of Israel was dead by 272 BC, their lands taken by the Babylonians, the Persians and the Macedonians after that. The Maccabean rebellion just secured their own city and some of the land near it, they didn't have the means to go conquer other lands, not to mention this happened in 164 BC, more than a hundred years after EB's starting date.

Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?

The answer is definitly NO.

No, but there haven't been any RTS games concerning Germans fighting eachother, about the numerous steppe clans, about the Axumites, about the southern Arabian tribes (which had a much greater influence on the trade in Europe than the Israelites had).

Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history.

Saying this is like saying that we should include a Buddhist faction in India, y'know, just because they had an influence on religion. Oh, and Christianity wasn't a major contender in the Mediterranean until about 250/300 AD. And Islam? 300 years later.

Or are you stating we should include a faction hundred years before they had anything to say for themselves just because they had an influence on religions (which are badly represented in RTW/M2TW anyways) that weren't really important until 300 years after the ending date of the game (which very people have actually reached)?

[IrishHitman]

18 votes for Judea?

Where are the 18 votes for an Irish faction?!
The geographical span would be wider than Judea.

I think modern politics are getting too involved if 18 people decided that a near-irrelevent state with a tiny geographical span would be given a faction. Their region(s) should be given a higher rebellion/unrest rate, that's about it in terms of historical importance for the time period EB is in.

My votes went to the Belgae (to balance the German hordes and the Aedui/Arverni), and Celtiberia (to better reflect the troubled nature of the Iberian peninsula)...

[Mediolanicus]

Over-represented?

Certainly not Under. Though maybe the importance of the Temple could be improved in EB.

Has an RTS game ever been made about the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel?

Not that I know off. And though I would like to play one, not in EB since it plays in a completely different time.

Moreover,their 'odd' conception of religion at the time made for the Christian and Islamic religions......
This is why they are quite important,a game without them is a game which has missed a MAJOR part of history

Judaïsm is very important historically. But their importance in 272BC - 14AD was the same as any small culture on the EB-map, except for that one heretic that born then and became equally historically important.