Twitter discussion

[Epimetheus]

On a slight tangent, I'm somewhat curious as to how exactly the hoplites held their spear. When holding a spear overhand, which way would they grip it, with their thumbs pointing forward, or back? It seems like one could do it either way, but it makes a big difference in the range of motion they would have.

[A Very Super Market]

A grip with the thumb facing forwards sounds like an underhand grip. It's very awkward to hold it overhand with the thumb facing forwards. Just try it, form the grip at your desk, and it already seems quite unnatural.

[Epimetheus]

I think I get where you're coming from. Alright, I'll try to demonstrate my point using EB unitcards



This is a standard hoplite as portrayed in EB. It uses the spear an overhand, with the thumb facing backwards.



This hoplite, while it doesn't look like this in game, has, I think, a grip like you describe. Kind of a raised underhand grip. I guess it does look a little awkward.

But what if, rather than simply reversing the underhand grip, like in the first picture, or raising the underhand grip like the second, you inverted it? Having your thumb go around the bottom of the spear, forward, but away from you? If you did that, it feels like you could wield a spear overhand fairly effectively.

[Phalanx300]

Well I figure its in the same way you hold a javelin(the tight grip) or stick overhand.

[A Very Super Market]

Hmm, I've never really noticed that. Since that is just the picture on the unit card (Baktrian Agema hold it overhand), maybe it's just a model that looks cool?

[mountaingoat]

you can hold it overhand just go and pick up a long spear like stick/pole .. it feels like you can get more accuracy and a longer range , but less power .. though this is without any practice.

the only major thing i noticed in regards to the "feel" , was that the overhand grip adds more load on forearm , and the rear + lateral deltoid muscles.

[Phalanx300]

you can hold it overhand just go and pick up a long spear like stick/pole .. it feels like you can get more accuracy and a longer range , but less power .. though this is without any practice.

the only major thing i noticed in regards to the "feel" , was that the overhand grip adds more load on forearm , and the rear + lateral deltoid muscles.

Overhand and underhand were tested and overhand was more powerfull and quicker. Not sure where it was tested but the results sounds logical if you look at the angle.

[bobbin]

Yeah I remember one of the team (foot maybe) found some info involving the forces produced by overhand and underhand spear thrusts which came to that conclusion.

edit it was abou, Stats on overhand spear vs underhand spear.. Shows that the overhand attack was faster and more powerful than the underhand.

[antisocialmunky]

The overhand motion is more powerful and quick in close quarters in formation.

[SFS2006]

twitter news: Twitter Exclusive! Introduction to new game-play features in EBII in preparation for the next preview. http://tiny.cc/ebiipa - Foot

i smell a new preview

[zooeyglass]

YAY! so exciting, glad you posted this up.

[bobbin]

oh yeah!

[Horatius Flaccus]

Amazing! Can't wait to see more.

[mountaingoat]

Yeah I remember one of the team (foot maybe) found some info involving the forces produced by overhand and underhand spear thrusts which came to that conclusion.

edit it was abou, Stats on overhand spear vs underhand spear.. Shows that the overhand attack was faster and more powerful than the underhand.

i was talking holding the spear with an overhand grip (but the thumb facing forward)

[Parallel Pain]

Temples, game fields, and other such buildings that represent individual structures will no longer add public order bonuses

Wait so "bread and circus" doesn't work?

[Skullheadhq]

twitter news: Twitter Exclusive! Introduction to new game-play features in EBII in preparation for the next preview. http://tiny.cc/ebiipa - Foot

i smell a new preview

You post a twitter exclusive in the fora
You missed the point of an excusive.

[The General]

Wait so "bread and circus" doesn't work?

Seems so... Interesting.

[Foot]

When you are dealing with the public order of entire provinces, building a bakery and fairground in your capital is not going to really make a difference throughout the entire province. Buildings that represent province-wide infrastructure will be able to effect Public Order, buildings that represent civic structures will have different effects. Bread and Circus will still work, but the results will not be as you saw in EBI.

Foot

[moonburn]

makes more sence indeed since celts germans and other barbarians lived in small villages and scatered farms and where mostly rural populations

but for instance conquering a greek city would normally mean securing the region so we get more acuracy on the mostly rural areas and less historical acuracy in the urban society areas ???

[Foot]

makes more sence indeed since celts germans and other barbarians lived in small villages and scatered farms and where mostly rural populations

but for instance conquering a greek city would normally mean securing the region so we get more acuracy on the mostly rural areas and less historical acuracy in the urban society areas ???

Directly after conquest centralised control is quite quickly lost (just think of the months following Afghanistan and Iraq, whose administration structures were far more centralised than those of Ancient Greece). You will therefore need to build that up over the next year or so (depending on your build order), but it is certainly possible (as mentioned in the document) for an entire province to come under the direct governance of the capital city of a province.

This system covers all scenarios (probably), and there is no loss in historical accuracy, as this is far more accurate than any system than has appeared before. It certainly isn't perfect for everyone, everytime, but it a huge improvement.

Foot

[machinor]

This sounds awesome! You guys are truly amazing.

[Parallel Pain]

When you are dealing with the public order of entire provinces, building a bakery and fairground in your capital is not going to really make a difference throughout the entire province. Buildings that represent province-wide infrastructure will be able to effect Public Order, buildings that represent civic structures will have different effects. Bread and Circus will still work, but the results will not be as you saw in EBI.

Foot

Oh yeah does that mean roads increase public order? Since you know roads better communication and better communication = better information flow = better control

[The Fuzz]

I like this update.

[Cyclops]

Very juicy option this one. I can imagine faction-typical approaches, with Carthage sprining to mind (trade and tribute on their province's centres, military alliance with the periphery giving access to juicy local elite troops) as opposed to the crushing taxation usually preffered by Romans and Hellenes, relying on colonae/klerouchies as manpower sources.

Romans of course would mix it up, granting a degree of freedom to some conquered cities (eg Athens) but still taxing the arse off the province, and even absolving some tribal allies from taxation, only requiring soldiers for the Auxillia (Tacitus mentions somen German tribe like that, was it the Frisii?). I imagine the Hellenes did likewise?

This feature along with the colonae is going to give some real depth to province control.

[DaciaJC]

Stay tunned for possible announcements on the EB fora... - about 14 hours ago from web

Can't wait!

[Horatius Flaccus]

I smell a preview...

[Caulaincourt]

I'm waiting !!!! When the news will be publied, I'll immediatly translate it into french and post it on the UTW'forum for EB II.

[Cybvep]

Is it just me or the next faction preview will be about one of the steppe nomadic factions?

"Nobleman horse archer for steppe faction was skinned, along with the horned-saddle horse. You'll faint! Another Gustave's great skin. - JMRC

Model of nobleman horse archer for steppe faction is finished. Preparing for skinning work. - JMRC

Another steppe horse archer is finished, along with the steppe pony skins. S kins by Gustave. - JMRC

Just integrated the 3rd steppe horse archer unit, from one of the most powerful sarmatian confederacies. Great skins by Gustave. - JMRC

2 more steppe archers (horse and foot variants) were finished, with model by Tux and skins by Gustave. - JMRC

A steppe horse archer with the bowman anims and overhand spear anims on horseback is assembled. - JMRC"

[Horatius Flaccus]

Let's hope so.

I think the next preview is about buildings though, as hinted at in the 'twitter exclusive'.

[-Praetor-]

*hint*