Occultus and the hidden Factions (Discussion)

[Hax]

Better than it being prone to rule 34.

[Ibrahim]

Better than it being prone to rule 34.

wut? rules 1,2, and 34?

what are they all about?

[Cyclops]

wut? rules 1,2, and 34?

what are they all about?

To understand you have to take the blue pill.

It contains Love Potion number 9.

[Ibrahim]

To understand you have to take the blue pill.

It contains Love Potion number 9.

anyways: you guys really need to stop fussing over what faction will be there (i.e: don't ask the dev forum members). all the dev team will do is tantalize you and tortue you with posibilities, and when they don't, they give political answers (i.e they answer nothing), so either way, they are tantalizing you.

just wait and see who guesses right. besides, I'm surprised at how imaginative some of your choices are; a complete disregard for game mechanics is most evident.

(seriously, the EB team isn't throwing some random faction in merely because it existed in 272 BC: they almost certainly consider historical importance, geography, and game balance, the EDU, DMB, province limits, and the team's manpower, to realize those factions. why do you all think they chose the numidians and pergamese for? any faction you fellows think is/should be in needs to take those factors into consideration. if you apply that logic to numidia and pergamon, you'll ind out on your own what will probably be in-though you'll never be 100% certain.)

[Tellos Athenaios]

I think the algorithmic complexity of this task:

(seriously, the EB team isn't throwing some random faction in merely because it existed in 272 BC: they almost certainly consider historical importance, geography, and game balance, the EDU, DMB, province limits, and the team's manpower, to realize those factions. why do you all think they chose the numidians and pergamese for? any faction you fellows think is/should be in needs to take those factors into consideration. if you apply that logic to numidia and pergamon, you'll ind out on your own what will probably be in-though you'll never be 100% certain.)

Is by far larger than just wait for EB 2 to be released. Especially if you want the Probability for your asnwers to amount to 1.

[Alsatia]

anyways: you guys really need to stop fussing over what faction will be there (i.e: don't ask the dev forum members). all the dev team will do is tantalize you and tortue you with posibilities, and when they don't, they give political answers (i.e they answer nothing), so either way, they are tantalizing you.

just wait and see who guesses right. besides, I'm surprised at how imaginative some of your choices are; a complete disregard for game mechanics is most evident.

(seriously, the EB team isn't throwing some random faction in merely because it existed in 272 BC: they almost certainly consider historical importance, geography, and game balance, the EDU, DMB, province limits, and the team's manpower, to realize those factions. why do you all think they chose the numidians and pergamese for? any faction you fellows think is/should be in needs to take those factors into consideration. if you apply that logic to numidia and pergamon, you'll ind out on your own what will probably be in-though you'll never be 100% certain.)

Well, this thread here is just a guess. It is here so people can guess possibilities. We probably won't get anything right but I just wanted to see other people's opinions.

[Ibrahim]

Well, this thread here is just a guess. It is here so people can guess possibilities. We probably won't get anything right but I just wanted to see other people's opinions.

true, but the point I was aiming at was simply that you can guess what you want, just don't make the silly mistake of asking or involving the dev forum, or taking it/them too seriously-they won't help, nor will they oblige with your (plural your) wishes regarding the identity of the factions. I put that in parenthesies y'know

besides, I like speculation on what factions there will be, just not the sillier moments regarding the identity of the factions-like when you guys see stuff in the occultus (what soapstone star?). it looks too much like I'm watching a HTWW video... or an example of excessive pareidolia.

@TA: why should it be 1? as long as p<1, then there is an element of surprise, and thus enjoyment when it comes.

[Phalanx300]

(seriously, the EB team isn't throwing some random faction in merely because it existed in 272 BC: they almost certainly consider historical importance, geography, and game balance, the EDU, DMB, province limits, and the team's manpower, to realize those factions. why do you all think they chose the numidians and pergamese for? any faction you fellows think is/should be in needs to take those factors into consideration. if you apply that logic to numidia and pergamon, you'll ind out on your own what will probably be in-though you'll never be 100% certain.)

Then it must that the new factions already have at least one unit to represent them, or have a unit rooster for the biggest part already in.

Which means some factions are thus likely:

Belgae
Another Britain faction
Galatia
Bosporus
Syrakousai
Indian faction
Baltic faction
Lugii
Boii
Any Germanic faction, Bastarnae, Chatii, Cherusci etc.
Massilia

Still many options, with even more uncalled.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@TA: why should it be 1? as long as p<1, then there is an element of surprise, and thus enjoyment when it comes.

I didn't say it should be 1, though. I said the algorithmic complexity of accurately predicting what factions will be in EB 2 without any solid fact as basis for assumptions is likely larger than just wait for it to come out.

And I can be sure of that statement if the probability for each of your predicted factions to be included must amount to 1, since that is equivalent to solving the halting problem (infinite complexity: solving each sub problem is as complex as solving the entire problem itself).

[Subotan]

wut? rules 1,2, and 34?

what are they all about?

ಠ_ಠ

[Ibrahim]

I didn't say it should be 1, though. I said the algorithmic complexity of accurately predicting what factions will be in EB 2 without any solid fact as basis for assumptions is likely larger than just wait for it to come out.

And I can be sure of that statement if the probability for each of your predicted factions to be included must amount to 1, since that is equivalent to solving the halting problem (infinite complexity: solving each sub problem is as complex as solving the entire problem itself).

ah, I see.

[gamegeek2]

wut? rules 1,2, and 34?

Rule 34 - If it exists [on the internet], then there is porn of it.

[Subotan]

Amazingly, or shockingly depending, Rule 34 is often quite accurate.

[Azathoth]

If not, there's always Rule 35.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Pool's closed. Looks like 4chan has come to the EBII forums.

[Subotan]

This thread has just died, but what a way to go.

[Alsatia]

Could the horde faction posssibly be the slavs??

[Phalanx300]

Now that you say it, thats actually quote possible, an Slavic faction, might be the no one has said it yet faction!

[Subotan]

Did the Slavs even exist at that time? Besides, there's no way they could be considered a state.

[Alsatia]

Now that you say it, thats actually quote possible, an Slavic faction, might be the no one has said it yet faction!

Thanks

Venedae?

[A Very Super Market]

Well, there are plenty of factions that people haven't suggested, but played no part at all and barely existed.

[strategos roma]

Did the Slavs even exist at that time? Besides, there's no way they could be considered a state.

The veneti of northern italy seems to be related to them, as are the veneti of pomerania and prussia.

[Andronikos]

What about the Indogreeks or something like Gandahara kingdom, they will start Indian and become Helenized after reforms. I remember a faction emblem with ichtyokentaur (the beast that Indohelenic noble hoplite has on shield) in one of EB1 previews. As shown in EB2 previws EB team did great job in implementing new features like culture buildings and nomad camps, so perhaps factions on the edge of the map won't be problem.

[Ludens]

Wasn't Gandahara controlled by the Maureans at the time? The problem is that it would be really unrealistic to add an Indian faction without including most of India, as that is where their focus would lie. Never mind such problems as limited culture and unit slots.

[Phalanx300]

Yes, though there are already many Indian unit slots which makes it a not that unlikely canidate for a faction! I usually look at that for new faction options as a strong factor in it.

[Andronikos]

The culture wouldn't be problem, they would be Eastern Greek with few unique buildings at the beginning to represent Indian features, later (after Helenisation) they will use normal Eastern Greek buildings.
And there are many Indo-Greek units already ingame: I. light spermen, longbowmen, guild wariors, IH peltast, light hoplite, helenic hoplite (Saka reform), elite hoplite, Taxilans, Kambojas, IH cav. (Saka reform), Indo-Saka catas, 2 elephants
There are regular factions which have less units that would be considered their unique.

And the interests in India could be solved by some events, expenditure for out-of-map wars, few rebel stacks spawned randomly or something similar.

According to Wikipedia, Helenic rule in that region started around 200 BC and that would be that reform or dynasty change.

[Subotan]

So, emergent faction? I thought the team rules that out.

[bobbin]

And there are many Indo-Greek units already ingame: I. light spermen, longbowmen, guild wariors, IH peltast, light hoplite, helenic hoplite (Saka reform), elite hoplite, Taxilans, Kambojas, IH cav. (Saka reform), Indo-Saka catas, 2 elephants

There are only really three indo-greek units in the game, the indohellenic peltasts, indohellennic infantry and indohellenic noble infantry all the rest are either indian or hellenic Saka units.

Some would have been used in indo greek armies (light spearmen, longbowmen, guild wariors Taxilian cav, Kamboja's and elephants) but others are products of Greek/Saka interactions and wouldn't be seen in Indo-Hellenic armies (the hellenic hoplite and maybe the greek cavalry) as for the Indo-Saka Cataphracts the clue is in the name, they certainly would be in a IH army.

But in the end the Indo-Hellenic Kingdom is highly unlikely to be in EBII due to the fact it didn't exist in 272bc.

[moonburn]

and still nobady remember whats probably the most obvious faction of all

the schytians of mikra schytia, altough they where being pushed aside by the sauromatae they where far from dead since they only got conquered by 110 bc. (by a pontiac king) a mixed schytian hellenic faction that could work like the saka on the west with a mix of hoplites and horse archers and with the amazing crimean heavy archer to defend it´s walls from the getic the sauromatae and the persian sucessors (hay or pontos)

they would be a buffer beteween the getai and the sauromatae and there´s 4 possible city´s for them (2 in crimea) olbia (capital? altough it wasn´t conquered by 272bc and was a greek city i believe) and that one that normally gets stormed by the sauromatae in the sea of azov

for victory conditions they could possibly have to emulate their massive invasions of the 7th century bc (?) wich enabled the persians to press the advantage and overthrow the medians and the assirians (?)

there´s some evidence that in the sea of azov there was a schytian city that had the hability to house over 1m people (and i know it´s from wikipedia so not so reliable but if it could impress the greek authors maybe it´s worth a chance at fighting back the sauromatae and give the getae a run for their money at the start)

seems the most obvious of all (after the boii and the belgae)

anyway just my 2cents for a dream come true of a steppe faction with a greek economic development an schytian-hellenic faction

[A Very Super Market]

The Bosphoran kingdom has been suggested many, many times. Not really fitting the team's statement, although I doubt it anyways.