Can you achieve world domination

[GFX707]

....in ETW without ever declaring war?

I think it might be possible, what with every nation you border suicidally declaring war on you for no reason.

The only problem could be Plains Nations, Knights of St. John etc. who have no borders with any other provinces.

I managed to do this in M2TW, but I got bored when there were just me and the Mongols left.

Anyone else feel like giving this a go?

[Prussian to the Iron]

you mean, without the player ever declaring war, or the player never getting into any sort of war?

i suppose you could achieve the objectyives. im sure, with the right amount of money, you could probably buy alot of territory, destroying everyone who DoW's on you.

i mean, france and GB get so muh territory from their protectorates; it'd be easy to buy all of it with the right amount...........

[Durallan]

I just don't see it happening unless indian nations would decide national soverignty even under those narsty european invaders is better than not having national soverignty at all. and some of the secluded islands aswell, you can get them to declare war on you because theyre, well isolated.

[GFX707]

you mean, without the player ever declaring war, or the player never getting into any sort of war?

I mean without the player ever declaring war.

I just don't see it happening unless indian nations would decide national soverignty even under those narsty european invaders is better than not having national soverignty at all. and some of the secluded islands aswell, you can get them to declare war on you because theyre, well isolated.

You talk as if the AI reasons like its historical counterpart. World domination doesn't mean making protectorates, it means conquering the entire map.

[Zarky]

Well you can't buy entire world because AI won't sell easily and you can't buy capitals. And without declaring war yourself it's almost impossible to conquer all, your only hope to get India against you would be to take Goa from Portugal or march trough Persia.

[Durallan]

well gfx you asked if it was possible to dominate the world without ever declaring war, and I said no, and if you can't get the black hill nation to declare war on you because of its complete isolation and you can't make it a protectorate either then you cannot dominate the world completely. and it being a protectorate also means you kind of own it. and no the AI doesn't reason like its historical counterpart, it will declare war on you if you border it, and if you don't border it it isn't likely to declare war on you.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Spain starts at war with the plains natives. But you can give an isolated faction a region so it will border you. Give the high quality of the current AI, that faction will DoW you.

What you are trying is what I almost achieved but without wanting it. In my current Spanish campaign (1788) I own almost all of North America. I never bothered to send forces to deal with the plains natives and with the remaining Hurons. I have captured (or conquered) almost all of Europe except northern Italy and the three most eastern regions of Europe. I have never declared a war. The AI with its Black Knight attitude always DoWed me, resulting in its destruction. At the moment the last serious opponent is the Maratha Confederacy who declared war the same turn we became neighbors. I don't know if the last twenty turns are enough to conquer India.

[Didz]

....in ETW without ever declaring war?

This is the ultimate test of the diplomacy system, and it certainly used to be possible in STW. The technique was referred to as 'The War of the Shadows' and involved systematic use of subversion and assassination to destroy opposing factions rather than open hostilities.

I really can't see how anything similar could be achieved within the limitations of the ETW diplomatic system. There seems to be no reliable way of causing a rebelion or assassinating enemy faction leaders.

[Durallan]

good point alphonse, there you go gfx, just give the ai territories bordering yours, wait a few turns, and theyll declare war eventually somehow

[GFX707]

This is the ultimate test of the diplomacy system, and it certainly used to be possible in STW. The technique was referred to as 'The War of the Shadows' and involved systematic use of subversion and assassination to destroy opposing factions rather than open hostilities.

Yes, but that would include provoking it. In ETW and M2TW you don't need to do that, sooner or later if you share a border the AI will declare war on you even if they have 1 unit and you own half the world. Suicide is of course the AI's highest priority as we have all observed.

I really can't see how anything similar could be achieved within the limitations of the ETW diplomatic system. There seems to be no reliable way of causing a rebelion or assassinating enemy faction leaders.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick. What I am talking about is a campaign where you just mind your own business and manage your internal affairs until someone declares war on you. Then you crush them, and once you are not at war any more (but I'd wager without the player declaring war EVER, he will still constantly be at war in such a campaign) you go back to minding your own business until someone declares war, etc.

In M2TW I played this kind of campaign and eventually there was just me (Moors) and the Mongols left. We were at war but I just got bored. So I know it's *possible* in M2TW but as I mentioned, the only problem is getting borderless nations to suicidally declare war on you like everyone else will have done.

[GFX707]

Spain starts at war with the plains natives. But you can give an isolated faction a region so it will border you. Give the high quality of the current AI, that faction will DoW you.

What you are trying is what I almost achieved but without wanting it. In my current Spanish campaign (1788) I own almost all of North America. I never bothered to send forces to deal with the plains natives and with the remaining Hurons. I have captured (or conquered) almost all of Europe except northern Italy and the three most eastern regions of Europe. I have never declared a war. The AI with its Black Knight attitude always DoWed me, resulting in its destruction. At the moment the last serious opponent is the Maratha Confederacy who declared war the same turn we became neighbors. I don't know if the last twenty turns are enough to conquer India.

Thanks, that's the kind of experience I was looking for. I think this game is certainly worthy of the title "total war" in the sense that everyone just declares war on you over and over until they're all dead or you get bored :)