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Thread: Nusantara : Total War

  1. #31
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    Yeah... thanks.... after checking that names in Babad Tanah Jawi, I've got several important cities that should be included...

    And faction owner at the start

    Java
    West Java:
    - Cirebon -> Pajajaran
    - Sunda Kelapa (now Jakarta) - Pajajaran
    - Banten - Pajajaran
    - Sukakerta (now Tasikmalaya) - Pajajaran
    Central Java:
    - Demak - > Kasultanan Jawi
    - Mataram (sekarang Yogyakarta) -> Majapahit
    - Pajang (sekarang di utaranya Surakarta) -> Kasultanan Jawi
    - Purwokerto -> Majapahit
    - Bonang (now Rembang) -> Kasultanan Jawi
    East Java:
    - Majapahit -> Majapahit
    - Ampel ( now near Surabaya -> Kasultanan Jawi
    - Pamekasan (now Madura island) -> Majapahit
    - Kediri -> Majapahit
    - Daha -> (West of madiun) -> Kesultanan Jawi
    Bali:
    - Bedahulu

    Yeah, at least our mod have much progress now...
    so, Bedahulu is a rebel city???????????
    in 1596, Cornelis made the Dutch Fort (really, wooden castle in M2TW) Buitenzorg, now Bogor, West Java
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  2. #32
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    so, Bedahulu is a rebel city???????????
    in 1596, Cornelis made the Dutch Fort (really, wooden castle in M2TW) Buitenzorg, now Bogor, West Java
    Oh, lol... I forgot to give Bali city Majapahit ownership....
    Butenzorg remain just a fort for 300 years, and Java Island is relatively small, so 13-14 regions is allready busy (compare that with Italian peninsulla on EB)

    Oh yeah, and hope we got some reply at the TWC http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=313706
    after verifying the 70% Land ratio (or verivy not) I'll gonna made the map....

    Yeah... better determine the city first, and now, how about some Sumateran cities?

    North Sumatera:
    - Kutaraja (now Banda Aceh) -> Aceh
    - Pasai -> Aceh
    .....
    Central Sumatera:
    - Palembang -> Sriwijaya
    -
    ....
    Far South Sumatera:
    -
    -
    .....

    any suggestion?
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 01:05.

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  3. #33
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

    Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

    The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.


    And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.


    What did u think?

    Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

    About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 03:55.

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
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  4. #34
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

    Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

    The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.


    And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.


    What did u think?

    Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

    About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.
    we could use woad Warriors as base for Majapahit,
    for Papuans, NUbian spearmen, and Cavalry.


    this should be what a General's bodyguard will look like. 1 chariot=2 men, at the GEneral's chariot, there's gonna be 3, 2 Archers, and the General
    x2


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  5. #35
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    No... Chariot is valued as frontline shock troops, and well, they are lead by Lesser Nobility... the higher Nobility rode Elephants!!! Well, I didn't want to just used RTW Models, they'll look ridiculous, especially their face is too caucasian, I'll use sonic's face as template for javanese army face if he's thinner (Sonic is really fat and I can't use my face because I'm chineese-dutch descendants, it will be funny I know, but unhistorical to have entire javanese army comprised of three quarter chineese, and a bit dutch)... How about your face??? (I'll try to get my friends' face too...)

    And the bodyguards is clearly depicted as Infantry surround their generals in Babad Tanah Jawi, holding their generals in shoulder mounted carts if he was a royal family member, and just spent entire battle watching and directing, except when his line is broken, he'll dismount and fight on foot... (lazy royal blooded generals), only lesser career generals rode their horses / elephants into the battle from the frontline.

    Oh yeah, Papuans are definitely different from africans, we must made entirely new models, and can't copy another mod's models because they don't have soldiers who wear batik skirt on their trousers... or having keris and Javanese styled bows for nobility (almost like a composite bows, but made from bamboo fibers, the commoners use wodden self-bows) Oh yeah, some tribal AOR soldiers will be depicted nude... or with loinclothes.

    maybe the only vanilla models we'll use is horses, elephants, chariots, and perhaps Roman Peasants / Archers, because they could easily modified to wear blangkon and trousers....
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 06:11.

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
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    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  6. #36
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Nubian Spearmen really look like Papuans, they're really black
    Last edited by G. Septimus; 11-30-2009 at 06:32.
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  7. #37
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Papuans will only present in some AOR units.... maybe blowgunmen (tulup), papuan javelinmen (I think of Dani and Augamune Javelinmen as they are mentioned several times as highly sought mercenaries), and maybe some berserker-swordsmen.

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  8. #38
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Wow, you guys do anything fast....

    And CuteWolf's face is really ridiculous on any of the Native troops... nothing will made any mod players ROFL when they see a chineese-dutch boys acts as native spearmen...

    But now I present my research on Gunners, but I still amazed about their stats, but at least the historical evidences said: (unlike what Cute Wolf said previously, the arquebus is used, but really less effective as their ammo will have less power ad range... but they are still used because even the europeans know nothing more...) and the natives allready have matchlock handguns too, brought by Chineese and Arab Traders, and manufactured locally. Flintlock mechanisms (which in turns made massed gun as line infantry available), are late innovation and not included in this mod... and even I just know that in 15,16, and 17th century, terms musketters often used as specialized gun troopers who doing the skirmishing jobs...

    Colonial Gunners (80 men)
    -> European horde infantry armed with what so called gun... either matchlock arquebus, or pooly tuned muskets. Inaccurate and should be used only when necessary, they are the settlers that hope to get easy riches on tropical colony, and will be disbanded when they arrive in their new lands.

    Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Gun armed infantry for most europeans, they have fear effects, but less range compared to crossbows, and the high humidity and usual rains render their blackpowder ineffective... because their matchlock compartements is easily pernetated by water vapors... at least they are still professional troops and highly disciplined.

    Portugese Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Portugese gun infantry, with poor shooting skills, but wear heavy armours and more than eager to fight in melee (partly because their gun are often clogged in the tropics)

    Skirmish Musketters (50 men)
    -> Musketters are gunners equipped with better guns, who had better range, and as they fought in tropics, their matchlock guns often has extra tar and grease fixings to portect the powder compartement against humidity, and the richer often use whell-lock guns for better protection against dampness. Because of their exspensive upgrades on their guns, they are trained to shoot in considerably long range, and hence often used as early sharpshooters, before the real sharpshooters are available.

    Frontiersmen (30 men) - 2 HP
    -> Trained european men used to survive in the wild of unknown lands, and hostile natives, they are equipped with guns they often take care specially, and often rely on their whell-lock guns to do most of their killings. They can be used for counter ambush, as they know how to hide well in the wilderness, and their experience with nasty natives often gives them exceptional hand to hand fighting prowess with their swords.

    Sharpshooters (40 men)
    -> Sharpshooters are hghly trained with their often custom made guns, effectife in eliminating their enemies in extremely long range, they are quite exspensive soldiers though, and didn't fare well in melee....

    Company Sharpshooters (52 men) -----
    -> Company Sharpshooters are Dutch men trained in Sharpshooters tactics, and paid to doing so as the guardsmen of the VOC cargo, sightly more numerous than their fellow sharpshooters counterpart, and has somewhat better skill in melee, thanks to their nasty experience against native raids.

    Militia Musketters (60 men)
    -> These men are former colonial gunners, that gain better guns, and often used for sharpshooting enemy leaders if the real sharpshooters aren't present. They rely on guns as their only true kind of weapons, and despite carrying swords, they didn't have any real skill to use it....

    Laskar Bedil (61 men)
    -> Majapahit, Kasultanan Jawi, and almost all the natives had enough time against mongol invasion in 13th century, and more time to trade with chineese and Arabs, as such, even in the old Sriwijayan army, lies several troops trained to use chineese/arab matchlock guns, and they are really used to great effect, as Pieter Both mentioned that Mollucans and Bugis traders allready have guards who carry guns... But battle accounts said that they are just mediocre shooters, and many relied on their better than average skill in close combat.

    Petembak Locok (81 men)
    -> Aceh, Malaka, and nearly everyone who has significant muslim influence will have another approcah to get gunners on their side... they are directly adopt Ottoman tactics and drills, and even Portugese and Spanish soldiers face these men in battle will tell that they are somewhat similar with gunners from andalusia in tactics, discipline, and strategy. Historically, the refugees from Andalusia, when flying against Spanish Inquistition, go to the north africa, and then most made their hijrah to aceh. They still leave visible remnants in the genetics of Acehnese people, having some blond and blue eyes, especially seen in Aceh Jaya city, at the Al-Andalus sector, where most of their descendants still lies here until today....

    Laskar Uthmani (62 men)
    -> These men are elite Aceh gunners, trained directly with Turkish methods, they are highly capable gunmen, able to shoot imressively accurate in considerable range, even when compared with their european rivals.

    Kallona ri Bugis (91 men)
    -> Even before the arrival of the europeans, Bugis mariners allready equipped themself in firearms, mostly learned against the army of Imperial China, they are essentialy a close quarter gunners, well suited to take close actions when boarding enemy ships, but more than reliable to fight on land. Armed with close compartment matchlock pistols, they have shorter range than most gunners do, but then they are used to launch some gun volleys and then charge forward with their badik swords. (well, the only gun infantry who has gun as precursor weapons)

    Kroco Lantak (100 men)
    -> The most common, and numerous native gunners, while didn't have good melee prowess as the laskar bedhil do, they are armed with standardized guns, often fashioned from chineese and arab styled guns, rather than european style. They are relatively short-ranged, but often crucial to provide effective counters against supperior, but less numerous european gunners. They are largely untrained, and just know how to fire their guns and run afterwards, as guns is exspensive, but can be effectively used by militia.

    Reformed Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> They are professional gunners, trained in European ways, and despite outnumbered by Kroco gunners, they are disciplined and has regular drill, making them on par with the europeans, and often get advantage because they has better numbers. Trainable only in heavily europeanized / christianized area.

    Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> European trained natives as gunners, raied by European for their effective ranged garrison army.

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    === not much sure about another mercenary gunmen though... maybe added later
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  9. #39
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Yeah... not much sure about another unit type, Cutewolf, GSS... I have really no Idea when reading these sastra writings, when I found soo much gunner type that could be derived, especially in Aceh-Malayan-Bugis Muslim society... and about the hindu-buddhist kingdom's gunners, they are rather india and chineese influenced... even demak and pajang (Kasultanan Jawi in this mod), didn't have much arabian influence on their gun army... well, guns made me confused...

    Now, I'll read about more traditional troop lists, you can still suggest some gunmen afterwards, but I think this is time to focus on traditional minded troops....
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  10. #40
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
    Yeah... not much sure about another unit type, Cutewolf, GSS... I have really no Idea when reading these sastra writings, when I found soo much gunner type that could be derived, especially in Aceh-Malayan-Bugis Muslim society... and about the hindu-buddhist kingdom's gunners, they are rather india and chineese influenced... even demak and pajang (Kasultanan Jawi in this mod), didn't have much arabian influence on their gun army... well, guns made me confused...

    Now, I'll read about more traditional troop lists, you can still suggest some gunmen afterwards, but I think this is time to focus on traditional minded troops....
    Maybe we should apply guns for Traditional factions when:
    1. They make alliances with The Europeans
    2. They made a trade with THe Europeans
    3. they are Protectorates (like S.Hassanudin's enemy, Arupalaka)
    x2


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  11. #41
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
    Wow, you guys do anything fast....

    And CuteWolf's face is really ridiculous on any of the Native troops... nothing will made any mod players ROFL when they see a chineese-dutch boys acts as native spearmen...

    But now I present my research on Gunners, but I still amazed about their stats, but at least the historical evidences said: (unlike what Cute Wolf said previously, the arquebus is used, but really less effective as their ammo will have less power ad range... but they are still used because even the europeans know nothing more...) and the natives allready have matchlock handguns too, brought by Chineese and Arab Traders, and manufactured locally. Flintlock mechanisms (which in turns made massed gun as line infantry available), are late innovation and not included in this mod... and even I just know that in 15,16, and 17th century, terms musketters often used as specialized gun troopers who doing the skirmishing jobs...

    Colonial Gunners (80 men)
    -> European horde infantry armed with what so called gun... either matchlock arquebus, or pooly tuned muskets. Inaccurate and should be used only when necessary, they are the settlers that hope to get easy riches on tropical colony, and will be disbanded when they arrive in their new lands.

    Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Gun armed infantry for most europeans, they have fear effects, but less range compared to crossbows, and the high humidity and usual rains render their blackpowder ineffective... because their matchlock compartements is easily pernetated by water vapors... at least they are still professional troops and highly disciplined.

    Portugese Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Portugese gun infantry, with poor shooting skills, but wear heavy armours and more than eager to fight in melee (partly because their gun are often clogged in the tropics)

    Skirmish Musketters (50 men)
    -> Musketters are gunners equipped with better guns, who had better range, and as they fought in tropics, their matchlock guns often has extra tar and grease fixings to portect the powder compartement against humidity, and the richer often use whell-lock guns for better protection against dampness. Because of their exspensive upgrades on their guns, they are trained to shoot in considerably long range, and hence often used as early sharpshooters, before the real sharpshooters are available.

    Frontiersmen (30 men) - 2 HP
    -> Trained european men used to survive in the wild of unknown lands, and hostile natives, they are equipped with guns they often take care specially, and often rely on their whell-lock guns to do most of their killings. They can be used for counter ambush, as they know how to hide well in the wilderness, and their experience with nasty natives often gives them exceptional hand to hand fighting prowess with their swords.

    Sharpshooters (40 men)
    -> Sharpshooters are hghly trained with their often custom made guns, effectife in eliminating their enemies in extremely long range, they are quite exspensive soldiers though, and didn't fare well in melee....

    Company Sharpshooters (52 men) -----
    -> Company Sharpshooters are Dutch men trained in Sharpshooters tactics, and paid to doing so as the guardsmen of the VOC cargo, sightly more numerous than their fellow sharpshooters counterpart, and has somewhat better skill in melee, thanks to their nasty experience against native raids.

    Militia Musketters (60 men)
    -> These men are former colonial gunners, that gain better guns, and often used for sharpshooting enemy leaders if the real sharpshooters aren't present. They rely on guns as their only true kind of weapons, and despite carrying swords, they didn't have any real skill to use it....

    Laskar Bedil (61 men)
    -> Majapahit, Kasultanan Jawi, and almost all the natives had enough time against mongol invasion in 13th century, and more time to trade with chineese and Arabs, as such, even in the old Sriwijayan army, lies several troops trained to use chineese/arab matchlock guns, and they are really used to great effect, as Pieter Both mentioned that Mollucans and Bugis traders allready have guards who carry guns... But battle accounts said that they are just mediocre shooters, and many relied on their better than average skill in close combat.

    Petembak Locok (81 men)
    -> Aceh, Malaka, and nearly everyone who has significant muslim influence will have another approcah to get gunners on their side... they are directly adopt Ottoman tactics and drills, and even Portugese and Spanish soldiers face these men in battle will tell that they are somewhat similar with gunners from andalusia in tactics, discipline, and strategy. Historically, the refugees from Andalusia, when flying against Spanish Inquistition, go to the north africa, and then most made their hijrah to aceh. They still leave visible remnants in the genetics of Acehnese people, having some blond and blue eyes, especially seen in Aceh Jaya city, at the Al-Andalus sector, where most of their descendants still lies here until today....

    Laskar Uthmani (62 men)
    -> These men are elite Aceh gunners, trained directly with Turkish methods, they are highly capable gunmen, able to shoot imressively accurate in considerable range, even when compared with their european rivals.

    Kallona ri Bugis (91 men)
    -> Even before the arrival of the europeans, Bugis mariners allready equipped themself in firearms, mostly learned against the army of Imperial China, they are essentialy a close quarter gunners, well suited to take close actions when boarding enemy ships, but more than reliable to fight on land. Armed with close compartment matchlock pistols, they have shorter range than most gunners do, but then they are used to launch some gun volleys and then charge forward with their badik swords. (well, the only gun infantry who has gun as precursor weapons)

    Kroco Lantak (100 men)
    -> The most common, and numerous native gunners, while didn't have good melee prowess as the laskar bedhil do, they are armed with standardized guns, often fashioned from chineese and arab styled guns, rather than european style. They are relatively short-ranged, but often crucial to provide effective counters against supperior, but less numerous european gunners. They are largely untrained, and just know how to fire their guns and run afterwards, as guns is exspensive, but can be effectively used by militia.

    Reformed Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> They are professional gunners, trained in European ways, and despite outnumbered by Kroco gunners, they are disciplined and has regular drill, making them on par with the europeans, and often get advantage because they has better numbers. Trainable only in heavily europeanized / christianized area.

    Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> European trained natives as gunners, raied by European for their effective ranged garrison army.

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    === not much sure about another mercenary gunmen though... maybe added later
    We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
    time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men)

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

    maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
    now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
    this is my Suggestion:
    -Euro:
    Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
    Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

    -Javanese:
    Cavalry

    -South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
    sumatran Elephants


    OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

    -Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
    Faction: VOC
    weapon: Rapier

    -Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

    Def: full-plated armor
    faction: all euro

    -Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
    faction: all euro
    Wep: Sword
    Def: Shield, Metal Vest

    -Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
    pierces armour
    weapon: Gunpowder
    Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

    I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....
    Last edited by G. Septimus; 11-30-2009 at 09:27.
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  12. #42
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    Maybe we should apply guns for Traditional factions when:
    1. They make alliances with The Europeans
    2. They made a trade with THe Europeans
    3. they are Protectorates (like S.Hassanudin's enemy, Arupalaka)
    Hey, he said that traditional factions got guns from Chinese and Arabs, europeans aren't needed....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
    time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men)

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

    maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
    now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
    this is my Suggestion:
    -Euro:
    Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
    Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

    -Javanese:
    Cavalry

    -South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
    sumatran Elephants


    OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

    -Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
    Faction: VOC
    weapon: Rapier

    -Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

    Def: full-plated armor
    faction: all euro

    -Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
    faction: all euro
    Wep: Sword
    Def: Shield, Metal Vest

    -Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
    pierces armour
    weapon: Gunpowder
    Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

    I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....
    Swords and bucklermen are Spanish Rodeleros, the English got armoured swordsmen, and the other two faction maybe have sightly inferior swords unit. And they can't be armed with rapiers, except for officers... because Rapiers are exspensive, and it only useful in duel, as it has long thin blade that easily dent or broken. You have golok or clurit at your home? then imagine the thin blade of Rapier get to be used to parry the heavy blade... they'll be instantly broken -> instant lol

    Gunmen is well known, even the chineese exstensively used it before the european do, but your research carry somewhat contrary ideas.
    1. The guns are ineffective, they are often clogged...
    2. The guns are widely used...
    So what does it means? If they are ineffective, why they are widely used?? = =a

    About bodyguards, it was about a matter of debate... but then we may create 2 kind of bodyguards per faction... and the royalty and european officers got heavy infantry, because they are usually only observing battles, and if the line was wavered, they do dismount themself to reinforce their line... because this is not ETW, we can't dismount cavalry on the site, so we use heavy infantry bodyguards. Secondary bodyguards is recruitable to the player, and AI will get em spawned more often.

    Oh yeah, GSS & Sonic, about your gunmen lists, I have a suggestion to separate the gun after european type reform, and the native guns... I know that Acehnese allready got many cannons and guns when they first fight portugese army, but I don't know that these men are moorish refuges (sudanese gunners FTW?)... Maybe one mercenary european gunmen is enough, but then we'll made 2 or 3 types of native mercenary guns.... especially I was interested in Korona ni Bugis, because some accounts said they are pirates and mercenaries... maybe we'll made 2 version of them, the supperior goes to Gowa-Makkasar, and pirates as factional army, and the inferior goes as mercenaries... wait, or pirates can train merc version??

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  13. #43
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    There will need to be a reform (If we can make it) of Europeans.
    when they came, they still use armor, after the year 1680, they'ii use the ETW unit skins,
    with better guns,
    like Aquibusers change into Line Infantry, Musketeers-> Colonial Infantry, there will be a Special "Proffesional Army" that will be only loyal to they're General, like the VOC governor, will gain control of the entire VOC Regional commanders, and will introduce a policy the "Kerja Paksa" (hahahah I'll set it in our language, so the downloaders will be confused) in the reform era
    x2


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  14. #44
    Boy's Guard Moderator LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.

  15. #45
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Reform for europeans? VOC are more often relied at Native Pikemen and Native Gunmen to do their job... the europeans only formed the professional core of their forces..

    EDIT: Oh yeah, this post, I'll announce the European logo... just wait in time when we facelift all the logo into the BI 's game UI!!!

    Spanish:


    Portugal:


    English:


    And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 12:31.

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  16. #46
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.
    Wow thanks LeftEyeNine....
    And how about any experienced map maker... could them lend some suggestions for my map?
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 12:17.

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  17. #47
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post


    And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
    OI!!!!!
    where's the blue??????
    u need blue for the Dutch!!!!
    x2


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  18. #48
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Ok, now before the faction facelift will be done, look here at the faction lists... GSS, Sonic, did you agree about this?

    Culture:
    Jawi = Huns
    Melayu = Eastern
    Bugis = Nomad (Bajak laut will belongs to Bugis culture, because the Carthaginian cultures are bugged)
    Indochina = Barbarian
    European = Roman

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  19. #49
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    OI!!!!!
    where's the blue??????
    u need blue for the Dutch!!!!
    Blue? The Ridiculous debate about the dutch should be Orange dominated (dutch calls themself that time, House of Oranye).... or 3 colour red white blue..... but... what do you think? Well, I'll made 3 colour version for the dutch...

    BTW, this is their flag and signature symbol that time... look as they are orange dominated:



    Oh yeah, here's the logo proposal...


    Note:
    Not artisticated yet.... they'll be get some canvas effects for the faction symbol
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 13:01.

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  20. #50
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    THIS IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    x2


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  21. #51
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Nusantara TW Faction Lists (culture look previous posts)

    huns = Majapahit
    goths = Pajajaran
    sarmatians = Sriwijaya
    vandals = Kasultanan Jawi
    sassanids = Aceh
    berbers = Malaka
    roxolani = Brunei Darussalam
    celts = Sulu
    burgundii = Banjar
    lombardi = Gowa-Makkasar
    ostrogoths = Moluku Kie Raha Ternate
    franks = Siam
    saxons = Champa
    alemanni = Khmer
    romano_british = Bajak Laut
    empire_east = Dutch
    empire_west = England
    empire_east_rebels = Portugal
    empire_west_rebels = Spain
    slavs = (UNUSED, MAYBE WE CAN ADD ONE MORE FACTION?)
    slave = Brigands
    The entire symbols are:



    I've made the backdrop for the Menu... (made in .TGA file, preview here in .JPG)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    And for the Historical Battle pics


    And The Provincial Campaign


    Any suggestion?
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 15:51.

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  22. #52
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    HEY!!!!! MY MAP!!!!
    thx for using it, Wolf

    alright, my job ends here for the maps, and Factions,
    now let's get to UNIT MODDELING
    let's het on to the first 2 factions:
    -Majapahit
    -Kasultanan Jawi
    who's gonna take this job????

    the other one is:
    Characters, starting characters, and others
    Last edited by G. Septimus; 11-30-2009 at 16:03.
    x2


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  23. #53
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Yeah... about the modelling.... maybe with this we should attract some experienced modellers....

    Well, the UI is now complete (but I forgot to hide the slavs though)


    Maybe we should start recruiting others now, for modelling... or wait until sonic finish his unit research?

    EDIT: Both of us are now reading the TWC university archieves...
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 12-01-2009 at 02:40.

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  24. #54
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    I've allready made some sketch of Javanese Soldiers:

    Both in 2 skin version, for Starting as Muslim dominated factions, and for starting as Hindu-Buddhist dominated factions. One wearing light clothes, and one bare chested and muscled. - In Babad Tanah Jawi, when Fatahillah assault Sunda Kelapa, the Javanese Spearmen on the Pajajaran Side was clearly depicted as fought bare chested, when the muslims depicted wearing shirts.... Even in Negarakertagama, the lowest militia fought bare chested (only said they are wearing kain arround their waist, and trousers, carrying bamboo anyaman shields, armed with bows, goloks and tombak spears)

    The Javanese militia usually fought with shortbows and golok (a heavy, thick, long knive, used for agricultural properties), the golok is technically an armor piercing shortsword, because it was heavy enough to dent steel sheet with its sheer weight.


    And this is the Spear Militia version, they are actually a very good spearmen that even capable to hold and repel Portugese pikemen when they attack Sunda Kelapa. Oh yeah, and maybe for some variation in skins, the hindu-buddhist may get a light sleeveless cloth (not too bare chested), and the Muslims got koko cloth.


    What did u think?

    Maybe I'll update with more my unit concept.

    About the elite & Nobility's armour, before the arrival of europeans, Hindu-Buddhist nobles fought in Steel and Brass armour, while the Muslims in Aceh fought in Middle Eastern styled chainmail armour. Their contact will eventually bring a bit of crossdressing between them. Movies and Films that depicts the nobility fought bare chested and unaroured are just a myth, because we also have their ancient armour at museum... they only rarely wears helmets, because it was indicate bravery, as well as method of recognition (the Hindu-Buddhist soldiers usually set their hair free, or tie in a topknot, while the Muslims youth mostly cut their hair.
    Questions:
    - What's on their heads? Blangkon? Helmet?
    - What's your policy on model budget? Maximum efficiency (256x256 textures, less than 700 polys) or flashier graphics (512x512 to 1024x1024 texture, 1000-1500 polys)?
    - Any actual photos on the design of weapons or shield or armor? Surely all those sinetron on Jaka Sembung or Mak Lampir or whatever has some reference material on weaponry of that age?

  25. #55
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    As I also read the "Babad Tanah Jawi" with Cutewolf, we know that the militia wears Blangkon on top of their heads, looks like just for fashion sense, because they only said:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    "Wiwitane ing tanah jawi ana agama islam ing sawise sedhane prau ayam wuruk, tekanipun islam mirsani owahipun jaman. Miturut carita, sang prabu kertawijaya ing majapahit inu wis ngerti tata krama olah kanuragan, lan prajuritipun, biyasa ngagem badhong wesi lan kuningan, pisan ngagem blangkon. Dene sawise sunan ngampel kagungan prajurit jawi, lere prajuritipun dikandhani ngaggem klambi ben iso dibedhakno karo prajurit majapahit."


    Well, I bet you can understood javanese, but for foreign readers, the translation is simpler: The javanese soldiers wear steel and brass cuirass, and put blankon on their heads, but after muslim forces start to build their own soldiers, Sunan Ampel said to the muslim soldiers to wear shirts, so they wil be different from Hindu-Buddhist soldiers...

    Well, cutewolf is the artist here... he then draw the soldiers' equipment, and depicts majapahit soldiers bare chested, and muslim influenced soldiers wearing shirts, surely, this was only skin difference. Ask Cutewolf for more of the unit details... as we did debate each other, are the Hindu Javanesesoldiers wear trousers inside or only cawet (underwear panties)

    EDIT:
    Hmm.... about the UI, I think it's too purple dominated... maybe we should tone the colors a little? GSS? Wlesmana? I personally think there is too much purple in the UI.
    Last edited by Rahwana; 12-01-2009 at 05:43.
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  26. #56
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Yupz, the mod work is get the mark.. as I've finished all the unit lists (the paper are still about to be verified by Cute Wolf first though, as we still have some disagreement about some units and ownership, as well as his silly tought that Elephant mounted general was about to bring imbalance in the game, so he insist all royalty bodyguards are either horse cavalry (chariot included) or infantry, but no elephant bodyguards), guys, what did you think about Elephant generals?

    Oh yeah the progress:
    1. Finishing Faction Symbol and All Unit Research --> Finished
    2. Making their models, and skinning them
    3. Creating a playable custom Battle version
    4. Making a campaign map --> Partially, still researching more regions
    5. Making the Structure & Buildings
    6. Fitting the campaign into campaign map
    7. Relase the full playable version
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  27. #57
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
    Yupz, the mod work is get the mark.. as I've finished all the unit lists (the paper are still about to be verified by Cute Wolf first though, as we still have some disagreement about some units and ownership, as well as his silly tought that Elephant mounted general was about to bring imbalance in the game, so he insist all royalty bodyguards are either horse cavalry (chariot included) or infantry, but no elephant bodyguards), guys, what did you think about Elephant generals?
    Did you remember how ridiculous to taking India in EB? due to the Elephants used as general's bodyguard, and they are REGENERATING FOR FREE!!! Better made the Sriwijayan royalty as Infantry (like all the Jawi descendant generals), and Malaka royalty as cavalry (like all the heavily muslim influenced factions), and give them a special unit of elephant with "command" ability to improve their morale... yes yes, I know, this was historical mod, but nothing wrong with some balancing... (except you could find some ways to made their unit is never exceed more than 15 elephants, I know the Sultan of Malaka and his family personally ride his elephants to battle, but it was the ONLY elephants mentioned, better made him heavy cavalry, or well, we just try the same EB solution with Spartan generals, give Sultan Allaudin Rihayat Syah, and his son Mahmud Syah elephant bodyguards, but not special elephant bodyguards unit, as it will imbalance the game - actually malaka comes to an end in 1511, the surviving members of Malaka royalty then run and build the Sultanate of Johor, but they never mentioned to rode elephants personally again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
    Oh yeah the progress:
    1. Finishing Faction Symbol and All Unit Research --> Finished
    2. Making their models, and skinning them
    3. Creating a playable custom Battle version
    4. Making a campaign map --> Partially, still researching more regions
    5. Making the Structure & Buildings
    6. Fitting the campaign into campaign map
    7. Relase the full playable version
    Well, put aside the elephant bodyguards issue and some ridiculous unit as "Dayak Legionaries" - search better words to describe heavy infantrymen throwing heavy javelins and armed with mandau swords! certainly not "legionaries" you Romaioi Barbaroi, and "(Tribe Name) Blowgunners" - It wasn't logically acceptable to have some Blowgunners in the game facing pikemen that has more range compared to their missiles... They only had effective deadly range in 4 m! usable only in ambush, and if you made them to 20 m blowgunners, they should using pressurized air instead of their breath... well, put aside they two and you just proceed to made their full descriptions... well, this wasn't our entire unit lists eh... we've still forgot to made unit sketch for The Indochina Factions and Sulu!!!... If they are not Majapahit's vassal initially, and later Aceh's vassal, and didn't interfere with Aceh and Demak afterwards, I'll gladly exclude them from this mods... but this mods aim in historical accuracy.... bleh.....

    And about the Regions, we just got several cities that was important but placed close together... its a matter of preferences then....

    Well... just keep up working guys!

    Oh yeah, the Sumateran Army aka the Acehnese....


    The locok gunners, armed with turkish matchlock musket, and wearing chainmail armour
    The Malayan Spearmen, Halberdier, and Archers, the archer are depicted as Hidu version of the skin...
    And the Aceh Andalus infantry, wearing chainmail, cone shaped shields, and armed with scimitars...
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 12-01-2009 at 07:30.

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  28. #58
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by wlesmana View Post
    Questions:
    - What's on their heads? Blangkon? Helmet?
    - What's your policy on model budget? Maximum efficiency (256x256 textures, less than 700 polys) or flashier graphics (512x512 to 1024x1024 texture, 1000-1500 polys)?
    - Any actual photos on the design of weapons or shield or armor? Surely all those sinetron on Jaka Sembung or Mak Lampir or whatever has some reference material on weaponry of that age?
    Oh yeah... sorry Wlesmana... I was soo busy debating about units with sonic here....

    On their heads are Blangkon for lower javanese soldiers, the elite one are wearing brass headgear as the sinetrons and films shows, but well, I'll try to photo the ancient Indonesian steel-brass Armour at Museum Geologi when I got a spare time, and slip my camera undetected.... (allready seen before when I got into the museum...... jalan - jalan lagi bosen terus masuk museum, karcisnya 5000 sih, dan ngga boleh motret lagi... halah takut amat barangnya difoto, emang ada jinnya yg ngga suka difoto kalee...)

    Hmmm... let me guess, I aim this mod for our fellow Indonesians, hoping them to learn history in a fun way... as well as get a chance to change history (in TW)... Yeah, maybe this mod will be downloaded and played at schools and university computers, which most are rather low end computers (mahasiswa gt loh), so we may used maximum efficiency graphics... or about a bit better... but certainly not the really flashier ones...

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  29. #59
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    If we're going for historical accuracy, then I really need reference pictures if you want models to be made. Last thing I want is to make something, then everyone chimed in on parts it should be altered for "historical accuracy" then the end product looks entirely different than the first model I submitted. Historical research should be finished before the model is made, otherwise the modeling process end up as trial and error and a lot of waster efforts and energy.

    Give me a reference material of a unit that you're quite sure what it should look like, for instance, the guy with the kopiah that looks like a warrior "dagang sate Madura". Also, do kopiahs worn back then show the front side of their hair or completely covered like what politicians wore these days?

  30. #60
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by wlesmana View Post
    If we're going for historical accuracy, then I really need reference pictures if you want models to be made. Last thing I want is to make something, then everyone chimed in on parts it should be altered for "historical accuracy" then the end product looks entirely different than the first model I submitted. Historical research should be finished before the model is made, otherwise the modeling process end up as trial and error and a lot of waster efforts and energy.

    Give me a reference material of a unit that you're quite sure what it should look like, for instance, the guy with the kopiah that looks like a warrior "dagang sate Madura". Also, do kopiahs worn back then show the front side of their hair or completely covered like what politicians wore these days?
    Yeah, we'll get our unit lists soon finished (still some debating about their appearances in the refrences, as well as their naming and equipments)... btw, we did "translate" mere words to pictures... because as you know... Hikayat Melayu, Babad Tanah Jawi, and much of our historical refrences only get text contexts... while I allready go to the museum here (Museum Geologi bandung has some of the best artifacts in Majapahit, and early islamic periods, while Cutewolf says that he allready seen some other equipments in Jakarta and Semarang, We also seen some paintings and sculpture dated from 1300-1800 period (Museum AA and Galeri Seni Rupa ITB gives much detailed info...) The only things that made us forced to resort in Cutewolf's hand drawn paintings was simple... camera is strictly forbidden there...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Terakhir kali gw kesana (Museum Geologi ANJRITTT), Gw keluarin Hp buat motret armor yang ada disitu, dan beberapa lukisan yang bagus buat refrensi, eh... didatengin satpam...

    Satpam (S) : Dik, maaf dilarang memotret disini dik...
    Gw (G) : Ya pak... maaf (mau keluar aja, toh udah difoto)
    S : Tunggu sebentar dik...
    G : Ada apa pak?
    S : kameranya bawa sini dik!!!
    G : Loh ini kan punya saya...
    S : maaf dik, kamera ini harus disita, karena sudah tertulis dilarang memotret disini!!!
    G : ENAK AJA PAK!!! Saya Kan CUMAN FOTO PAK!!!!
    S : Pokoknya bawa sini!!! (mau diambil)
    G : Aduuuh... jangan pak....
    S : Saya laporin polisi kamu... (temen - temennya satpam2 lain pada dateng!!!) Ada CCTV yang udah merekam apa yang kamu lakukan tadi!!!!
    G : Maaf pak.... cuman foto aja emang kenapa?
    S : yasudah... kita damai saja dik, tapi saya harus liat adek hapus gambar - gambar yang dari sini!!! (sambil tangan membentuk simbol yang sudah jelas tujuannya apa)
    G : ya.. ya pak.... (terpaksa dihapus sambil diliatin satpam)
    S : (diam, memandang penuh arti....)
    G : ya.. ya pak... tau... (keluarin 50 rebu)
    S : Kurang dik.... (sambil ngancem karena temen - temen satpamnya liatin gw juga)
    G : Nih..... (Ditambahin ampe cepekceng!!!! Sialan tuh Satpam!!! )
    S : terimakasih dik...
    G : (Dalam hati: SONTOLOYO!!! CUMAN MOTRET AJA BAYAR DAMAI SEGITU!!! KALO GUA NGGA KULIAH DI BANDUNG UDAH GW HAJAR TERUS KABUR AJA TUH SATPAM SIALAN!!!!!! )

    Si Cutewolf denger cerita gw ketawa ngakak... maklum, dia kan bisa nggambar paling tidak... sedangkan gw ilang cepekceng... huhuhu.....

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