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Thread: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

  1. #91
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gallaecian Wonders

    Interesting, although all I can find on it states that it was built sometime during the 1st century CE and so is outside of our timeframe.

    Do you have a source for the pre-roman structure claim?

    Welcome to the fourms by the way!


  2. #92
    Member Member Cyclops's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gallaecian Wonders

    May I make an observation?

    I'm guessing that wonders are unique features, "one-offs" and are given effects to reflect some important unique featuire of that province.

    I know the acqueducts of Rome are awesome but aren't they covered by an existing building? Ditto the temple of Jupiter in Rome (the wonder, of course they should have the temple building-they do go up to "awesome" size).

    Also some of the megalithic buildings are Neolithic/ bronze age constructions, does that mean they are not used in the EB period? As Macirille points out, there are large mounds of earth all over Europe.

    Not suggesting a return to the "(mostly Greek) magical mega-buck Collossus" type of wonders, but I'm wondering if some of the features mentioned are covered by existing buildings, or belong perhaps in the "Province description" building?

    If we take the original "Seven Wonders" as a baseline, are the megalithic structures of equal prominence and social influence as the Mausoleum?

    I'm very impressed by wonders like the dam in Saba, the wall in Parthia etc. They seem to be unique, and wonderfully realised features.
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  3. #93
    Varangarchos ton Romaioktonon Member Hannibal Khan the Great's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gallaecian Wonders

    I don't have any wonders to present right now, but could it be possible for the team to incorporate the ability to restore wonders? For example: Say Hayasdan gets the Orontid empire reforms, then maybe it can (albeit at a very high, multi-staged cost in terms of both time and money) rebuild the palace at Persepolis? Or maybe the Seleukids might be able to do the same thing, should they become Persophile enough? I'll start a brainstorming thread on the matter if anyone's interested.
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  4. #94
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gallaecian Wonders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Also some of the megalithic buildings are Neolithic/ bronze age constructions, does that mean they are not used in the EB period? As Macirille points out, there are large mounds of earth all over Europe.
    Not necessarily, there were plenty of neolithic sites still in use in EB's timeframe, although the fact they were in use is not important, all that is required is that they would be visible and known to the locals during the period.

    Not suggesting a return to the "(mostly Greek) magical mega-buck Collossus" type of wonders, but I'm wondering if some of the features mentioned are covered by existing buildings, or belong perhaps in the "Province description" building?
    This was stated in the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    We are looking for two kinds of things.

    1. "Wonders of the Ancient World" that could be made into Unique Buildings as in EB1.
    2. Significant and interesting features of geography or culture that could be part of the Province Building descriptions.


  5. #95
    Member Member dkdnt's Avatar
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    Post SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Hi,

    i don`t know if anyone of you ever heard about islands of Socotra in Indian ocean? Recently i came across them and was intrigued by their beauty and uniqueness.
    Best of all, the isles are already on EB 1.2map, small group in bottom right corner, just northeast of African horn (which is not visible on the map). You can see it here.


    Socotra, or Dioskouridou as islands are called in Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (See map here), is unique natural site with it indigenous flora and fauna, much like Galapagos in Pacific is. Today it is protected by UNESCO-s, so it is not tourist site (thanks God).
    Beside that, as history recorded (in given article about Greek navigation guide) Socotra was inhabited long time ago. There have been findings of early paleolithic culture there, and spot itself was great place for afro-asian trade routes, so there have been some evidence in favor of small prosperous port there. Also, they suggest that people there were mixed nationalities and multi religious. I think that it is safe to asume they were part of Kingodm of Saba. Mostly because settlements like this one:

    And cuz of trade with incense by which it is famous. Mostly because of Dragons Blood :D
    Here are some other images from the isles today:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Socotra is home for some 600-700 animal and plant species that cant be find anywhere in the world. Due to its natural uniqueness i think that Socotra should be considered as "Wonder" for some Sabean province, or even as new region, but this is not topic about that.

    Anyway, i hope this info could help you guys. I started EB few days ago, and was thrilled that there is ongoing project of EB for M2TW. I`m somewhat out of major info with all of this, so if there is something unclear, or obsolete in my post regarding wonders for EB2, i`m sorry, and would be gratefull for insight of any kind.

    :)
    Last edited by dkdnt; 06-20-2010 at 02:11.

  6. #96
    Speaker of Truth Moderator Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Hi dkdnt, great to hear you love our mod and are looking forward to our new project.

    While the Island surely has a unique ecosystem and is home to interesting and unique forms of life, however I don't think many people living in the hellenistic era were much influenced or intrigued by it. This threads is about fans suggesting wonders such as important buildings, temples, important relgious sites,... and many other things that had an impact on the life of the people living close to it. Now as I have no sources on Sabaeans or any other ancient people for that matter regarding it as holy ground or studying trees or something on the Island, I doubt the Island had no real importance. Except for it being the home for the people living upon it. Also the Island was most probably Qatabân territory at our start date.

  7. #97
    Member Member dkdnt's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    I understand your argument. I just thought it would be great idea to mention Socotra due to second part of this:
    We are looking for two kinds of things.

    1. "Wonders of the Ancient World" that could be made into Unique Buildings as in EB1.
    2. Significant and interesting features of geography or culture that could be part of the Province Building descriptions.
    Also, if you take a look at this text you`ll notice that this island was part of vivid trade routes. It never was dens populated, nor major port in any sense, but i`m pretty sure that it wasn't isolated as you may think.

    Now, the real problem for EB is time. Info i have presented is somewhat inaccurate about historic periods, although last link consider Socotra isles ~1 C AD. That is too late for EB starting age, but it suggest, with archeological data, that Socotra was continuously inhabited from the very beginning of homo sapiens, and even before.

    Now, kingdom of Saba was famous by intensive incense trade with cultures from Mediterranean cultural basin. Socotra scarce mentioning in history book is almost always related with its importance in this trade:

    The fame and historic important of Socotra dates back to the beginning of holy commodities trade prosperity and the activity of the old trade route which is much better known as Frankincense, Myrrh and Laudanum route for the island was one of the main producers of such essential commodities in addition to its being the back reserve for the support of Yemeni ancient Hadramawt Civilization along the first millenium BC when the kingdom of Hadramawt was named ( kingdom of Frankincense, Myrrh and Laudanum).

    from:
    http://www.socotra-yemen.com/en/news1.html
    Dont know for sure how important it was at EB given time, but i can say it looks interesting enough.

    Btw, i`m old-new to forum, and completely new to EB sub-forum, so i dont know much about project news and plans, but i`ll try to be informed as much as possible.

    Also, Socotra was on top of my mind considering ancient world wonders and perhaps i`ll have more ideas regarding everything. So it would be nice to know for how long you will be open to suggestion?

  8. #98
    Speaker of Truth Moderator Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Don't know how long, but long.

    Sorry but at the moment I don't really see a reason why Socotra needs a wonder building representing it...

  9. #99
    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Don't know how long, but long.

    Sorry but at the moment I don't really see a reason why Socotra needs a wonder building representing it...
    He is not referring to that. He would like to see Socotra being incorporated into the province description "Qataban".

    We are looking for two kinds of things.

    1. "Wonders of the Ancient World" that could be made into Unique Buildings as in EB1.
    2. Significant and interesting features of geography or culture that could be part of the Province Building descriptions.
    ~Fluvius
    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrius
    Oh my god, i think that is the first time in human history that someone cares to explain an acronym that people expect everybody to know in advance.
    I lived for three years not knowing what AAR is.

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  10. #100
    Speaker of Truth Moderator Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluvius Camillus View Post
    He is not referring to that. He would like to see Socotra being incorporated into the province description "Qataban".
    ~Fluvius
    Ah I see, still have to write that one. But be sure it will mention Socotra.

  11. #101
    Member Member dkdnt's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    It is nice we came to understanding :) And i`m sorry I was unclear before, so thanks to Fluvius for clearing things out.
    Now, i can add a line or two, that describes Socotra in Qataban province (based on that navigation guide) if you dont have time. I`m journalist, anthropologist and history geek so i should be able to do this nicely. You just need to give some hint on how to do so. Or i can write description here, so you can add it in your description? Just let me know how long it should be :)

  12. #102
    Member Member dkdnt's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Ok, one thing so obvoious I just had to miss it - Incense route. I mentioned it before about Kingdom of Saba. I dont know if this is already included in EB, but if not it should be, considering how important it was, not only for kingdoms that were on route, but even for later shape of Christian church.

  13. #103
    Speaker of Truth Moderator Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: SOcotra as Saba wonder?

    Yes the incense route will obviously be included in EB, not as a wonder if it's up to me, but it will be there.

    Well every province will be having a description with geography, history,... sections. Now there's not a socotra province, but it is part of the Qatabân province ans as such will be mentioned in it. So a real description of Socotra isn't really necessary to prepare.

    However if you want to try your hand at writing full province descriptions that's something else. We can obviously use help there (as there are 199 of them to write), but then you will have to do some serious research. Especially if you want to write about this region. But if you think you're up for that you can always feel free to contact me.

  14. #104
    New Member Member apollodorus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    How about Sarmizegetusa for Dacia?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmizegetusa_Regia

  15. #105
    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Quote Originally Posted by apollodorus View Post
    How about Sarmizegetusa for Dacia?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmizegetusa_Regia
    Welcome to the forums!

    We will pardon you because you are new to the forums, but...

    If you did read the other pages, you would see there are two things wrong your post:

    1. The people who manage the thread ask for your own research, not simply posting a wiki article. If you like your wonder to be included, write something about it, What was special about it? Why does it deserve a place as a wonder?

    2, Sarmizegethusa is already in Europa Barbarorum and so is the Kogaion.

    Enjoy your stay at the EB forums!

    ~Fluvius
    Last edited by Fluvius Camillus; 06-22-2010 at 22:35. Reason: typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrius
    Oh my god, i think that is the first time in human history that someone cares to explain an acronym that people expect everybody to know in advance.
    I lived for three years not knowing what AAR is.

    Completed Campaigns: Epeiros (EB1.0), Romani (EB1.1), Baktria (1.2) and Arche Seleukeia
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    3x1x<-- From Maion Maroneios for succesful campaigns!
    5x2x<-- From Aemilius Paulus for winning a contest!
    1x From Mulceber!

  16. #106
    Member Member Trve Leveller's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Hi
    Since holy stones are already in, i thought it would be interesting to add another characteristic feature of pre-islamic arabia:

    Holy Trees.
    They were also called Dhāt Anwāt (that on which things are hung) because worshippers hung ostrich eggs, textiles and weapons on them. Those trees were also places of animal sacrifice.

    The most famous example are the three Umbrella Thorn Acaciae of al-ʿUzzā in Nakhlah near
    Qudayd (Mekka). Al-ʿUzzā was an important pre-islamic godess (one of mekkas main gods) often compared to Venus or Isis.

    here you can see a picture of a umrbrella acacia:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    There also was a holy date palm in najran.
    So these could be added as wonders or as descriptions of cultural habits in region buildings.

    sources:
    http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Al-Kalbi/uzza.htm
    http://www.jrank.org/cultures/pages/...mythology.html
    William Robertson Smith: Lectures on the Religion of the Semites. The fundamental institutions. 3. Aufl. London 1927, S. 185

  17. #107
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    But isn't this a general phenomenon rather than a site-specific wonder? Holy trees and groves were quite common amongst the Celts and Germans, if I am not mistaken.

    Welcome to the .Org, BTW .
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  18. #108

    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    I would like to suggest the Solomon's temple at Jerusalem.

    It was the spiritual center of the Jewish people and was exceedingly important. Also, while it is now a ruin nowadays, its size, design and other details have been recorded by Josephus, the Bible and also Roman sources.

    BTW, would it be possible for some monuments, eg the Acropolis to appear in the city itself.

  19. #109
    Member Member Horatius Flaccus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    It's already in:

    To Hieron en tois Hierosolymois (The Holy Temple in Hierosolyma)
    Exegi monumentum aere perennius
    Regalique situ pyramidum altius
    Non omnis moriar

    - Quintus Horatius Flaccus

  20. #110
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Quote Originally Posted by strategos roma View Post
    BTW, would it be possible for some monuments, eg the Acropolis to appear in the city itself.
    It is possible, but a lot of work for a rather minor detail.

  21. #111
    Member Member Khazar_Dahvos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    what about the underground cities such as Derinkuyu and Kaymaklı in Cappadocia for either use in the regions description or as a wonder. In the 5th century B.C. historian Xenophon's Anabasis. In this work he describes his visit to a nearby town named "Dana" where the villagers had underground dwellings. Xenophon mentions that the entrances to the cities resembled wells; the rooms, however, were quite large, and some were used for housing goats, sheep, and poultry. Corn, rice, and barley wine were stored in large jars. Xenophon warns about a potent barley wine and advises that it be diluted with water. I am sure this is nothing new to you guys but i cant remember if it was brought up before.

  22. #112
    Member Member Ca Putt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    reading Herodot I came about some locations I don't remember seeing here or in EB1, sady my informations are rather limited all I found in the Internet were mainly direct references to herodot, but maybe someone else already has some info on them and got "reminded" by this post, still I'll continue research if they are estimed "wonderous" enough that is ;)

    Tomb of Alyattes II in the Necropolis of the Lydian Kings near Sardis

    "white Pillars" in Caria

    whereas there is some info on Alyattes the only reference to the white pillars is herodot :/ he discribes it as a "gathering point the Carians gathered at when threatened.

  23. #113
    Member Member Loverartis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Hi everybody,
    Could be a good idea if I research something about Hatshepsut's temple, Luxor temple, Karnak temple or Philip II's tomb in Aigai? Are there useful?
    "[...]ἐπ[ὶ] γᾶν μέλαι[ν]αν ἔ]μμεναι κάλλιστον, ἔγω δὲ κῆν' ὄττω τις ἔραται."
    ([...]on the black earth the most beautiful thing remains, I say, whatsoever a person loves) (Sappho, part of fragm. 16)

  24. #114
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    VI century BC Golaseccan astronomical observatory
    http://www.duepassinelmistero.com/Grandecerchio.htm






    Sorry but I could find an english site...
    In a nutshell the site was build to keep track of the stars, two concentric circles of 69 and 67 m...
    Celtic's incineration tombs had been found next to it, the Oppidum of Como was really close (10 km with today's roads, I'll say about 4 km in a straight line), also thanks to the heliacal rising of Antares, Aldebaran, Capella and Sirio seasons could be determined.

    The site was used for a century, but the Orobii (celto-ligurian people) settled the area since the bronze age.

    Just wanted to post it, because I was born right there XD
    Last edited by Arjos; 08-26-2010 at 13:34.

  25. #115
    Member Member Davil92's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Hello all!
    I did a little reaserch and found a very interesting site in my homeland that would be very cool in EB: Poseidon's temple at Taras!
    Taras, as it was known to the Greeks, was a well-chosen site and soon became the first city of Magna Graecia, renowned for its wool, its oysters and mussels, and its dyes – the imperial purple was the product of decayed Tarentine molluscs. Resplendent with temples, its acropolis harboured a vast bronze of Poseidon that was one of the wonders of the ancient world. Sadly, little remains of ancient Taras or even of later Roman Tarentum, their monuments and relics confined to the great museum in the modern city.
    It was a doric temple, archaic, dating to the V century BC and still completely recognisable till the XVII century. It was Magna Graecia's oldest and most famous temple, today all that is left are two colums and theyr bases. They are 8,47 metres tall and 2,05 metrse in diameter.
    From the studies it has emerged that the temple was made up of 6 colums on the shorter sides and 13 on the longer.
    Although it was attributed to worship of poseidon, we can't rule out worship of other gods such as Arthemis, Hera or Persephones.
    This is a link to an image of the colums: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo..._a_Taranto.jpg.
    If it's interesting enough for you i'll do more reaserch, if not i'll find another.
    Oh and also, I'm currently in galicia, so if there are any sites here that are interesting i'd really appreciate it if yall would tell me so I can go there myself, (of course relevant to the timeframe of EB)
    Last edited by Davil92; 08-28-2010 at 01:41.

  26. #116
    Member Member Davil92's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Wow, more than 150 views, but not one reply....

  27. #117
    Member Member Loverartis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Hi Devil92,
    Hi everybody,
    Could be a good idea if I research something about Hatshepsut's temple, Luxor temple, Karnak temple or Philip II's tomb in Aigai? Are there useful?
    I'm still waiting for an answer, too.
    Hello all!
    I did a little reaserch and found a very interesting site in my homeland that would be very cool in EB: Poseidon's temple at Taras!
    Taras, as it was known to the Greeks, was a well-chosen site and soon became the first city of Magna Graecia, renowned for its wool, its oysters and mussels, and its dyes – the imperial purple was the product of decayed Tarentine molluscs. Resplendent with temples, its acropolis harboured a vast bronze of Poseidon that was one of the wonders of the ancient world. Sadly, little remains of ancient Taras or even of later Roman Tarentum, their monuments and relics confined to the great museum in the modern city.
    It was a doric temple, archaic, dating to the V century BC and still completely recognisable till the XVII century. It was Magna Graecia's oldest and most famous temple, today all that is left are two colums and theyr bases. They are 8,47 metres tall and 2,05 metrse in diameter.
    From the studies it has emerged that the temple was made up of 6 colums on the shorter sides and 13 on the longer.
    Although it was attributed to worship of poseidon, we can't rule out worship of other gods such as Arthemis, Hera or Persephones.
    This is a link to an image of the colums: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo..._a_Taranto.jpg.
    If it's interesting enough for you i'll do more reaserch, if not i'll find another.
    Oh and also, I'm currently in galicia, so if there are any sites here that are interesting i'd really appreciate it if yall would tell me so I can go there myself, (of course relevant to the timeframe of EB)
    If you want my personal opinion, I believe Poseidon's temple shoud be very useful for EB II, Taras was one of the larger cities in III BC (It seem to me that Taras was conquered by Romans exactly in 272 BC!). And for Galicia, It doesn't occur to me anything. Have you found something in that area?
    "[...]ἐπ[ὶ] γᾶν μέλαι[ν]αν ἔ]μμεναι κάλλιστον, ἔγω δὲ κῆν' ὄττω τις ἔραται."
    ([...]on the black earth the most beautiful thing remains, I say, whatsoever a person loves) (Sappho, part of fragm. 16)

  28. #118
    Member Member Davil92's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Well, all i've found is some iron age stuff here, nothing really relevant to eb's timeframe, i've been looking but it's kinda hard to know what people worshipped some 2000 years ago... ah e secondo te come mai ci mettono tanto a rispondere i moderatori? cioè io credo che le vedano le risposte... boh, mi semrano tutte idee abbastanza buone, non so...
    Last edited by Davil92; 08-31-2010 at 22:17.

  29. #119
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Sorry guys the Odysseous hae been pretty busy and probably hasn't had time to look over the thread in a while.

    These are some good wonders your posted up, the Golaseccan astronomical observatory in particular looks very interesting

    @Davil92, Khazar Dahvos, Ca Putt: Looks good, can you link or state the sources for your information though? It helps the historians no end.

    @Loveratis I think those temples are already in EB as the Nekropolis Thebaie wonder, no need to research Phillips tomb though as the Aigai is already a wonder in EB.


  30. #120
    Member Member Loverartis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Wonders Project

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    @Loveratis I think those temples are already in EB as the Nekropolis Thebaie wonder, no need to research Phillips tomb though as the Aigai is already a wonder in EB.
    Thanks bobbin, I will research something else. I want to ask a thing: I note that Pergamon's acropolis isn't present in EB I. In fact the altar and part of the area were built about in 200 BC (after the date of the beginning of the game). But it's a pity that it isn't present... What could be done?
    "[...]ἐπ[ὶ] γᾶν μέλαι[ν]αν ἔ]μμεναι κάλλιστον, ἔγω δὲ κῆν' ὄττω τις ἔραται."
    ([...]on the black earth the most beautiful thing remains, I say, whatsoever a person loves) (Sappho, part of fragm. 16)

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