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Thread: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

  1. #91
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    yeah, sure, just post their download link, and we'll consider it...
    actually sounds wasn't considered in our first relase, but we did plan sound effects and in depth campaign immersion to be improved after we finished the first relase

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  2. #92
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    oops, double post
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 04-15-2010 at 12:46.

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  3. #93
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    yeah good! I have some nice music.

    Bubuka Gajah Putih Ngalng Jagat. good for battle music.
    http://www.ziddu.com/download/945920...Jagat.mp3.html
    and this one Kacapi and Tarawangsa.
    http://www.ziddu.com/download/945920...angsa.mp3.html

  4. #94
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    just found nice music for european.
    http://www.ziddu.com/download/946020...eReal.wma.html

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  6. #96
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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  7. #97
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    Salam tuan-tuan semua,

    I suggested some revision of a few unit names (if it can be changed) based on Hikayat Hang Tuah.

    a) Milisi - I think this is not Malay word, it is a loanword from English Militia, while in Hikayat Hang Tuah the word used for unamoured /untrained unit is Penjurit or prajurit

    "Maka sembah Tun Tuah, "Daulat Tuanku, tiada berguna pegawai sekalian; janganlah berperang bermati-mati, sekadar menaiki kuda ini lagi tiada mau. Sia-sialah menjadi pegawai; layaknya menjadi Penjurit berjalan malam mengambil harta orang dan membunuh orang juga.”

    In this dialogue, Tun Tuah was condemning the officers (pegawai) because of the inability to handle a horse, and their status were same as militia or guerilla (penjurit).

    Hikayat Hang Tuah told a few cases that the penjurit run amuck killing people, stealing and robbing, in this dialogue, Tun Tuah referring penjurit as berjalan malam (walking at night), mengambil harta orang (stealing and robbing) and membunuh orang (killing people).

    b) Milisi Panah Melayu – just named it Pemanah or Pemanah Melayu

    c) Tentera serbu Melaka – no such thing as tentera serbu, change it to pasukan penggempur / tentera penggempur / pasukan tempur (shock trooper)

    d) Melayu Dalam – just named it Orang Pedalaman / Orang Melayu Pedalaman / Orang Gunung (mountain people), or Orang Hulu / Orang Ulu (upper river people)

    e) Malay regular Infantry – regular infantry were addressed as Hulubalang in hikayat Hang Tuah

    f) Bodyguard of Mentri (Minister) - were addressed as Pegawai dan Pertuanan in Hikayat Hang Tuah, some of them were riding horses, some of them walking

    “Maka Temenggung dan patih naik kuda. Maka segala pegawai yang banyak itu ada yang naik kuda, ada yang berjalan di tanah mengiringkan.”

    “Maka Bendahara dan Temenggung pun menyembah lalu keluar diiringkan oleh segala pegawai dan pertuanan”

  8. #98
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    correct me if I wrong, Laskar also mean Prajurit, right?

  9. #99
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    I am not sure about that....have to check KAMUS DEWAN....but I know that Laskar and Askar (loanword from Arab) come from Persian word "Lashkar"... in Hikayat Hang Tuah and Sejarah Melayu, the word that used for unit were: Penjurit (I think for militia); Hulubalang (I think for regular infantry); Pegawai dan Pertuanan (always used for Mentri bodyguard, some using horse, some not); Bentara (special bodyguard, in hikayat Hang Tuah, Hang Tuah and 5 of his siblings were appointed firstly as Penghulu bodyguard, than Bendahara bodyguard, after that as Bentara [the court bodyguard], than appointed as Laksamana [Melaka envoys]); Kesatria (special for Benua Keling [India] knight; and gajah kenaikan (Melaka Sultan and Raja Muda riding elephant)......the word Seridadu / serdadu (soldadu) also mentioned, but came with / after Portuguese invasion, maybe the loanword from Portuguese, (ie: Soldier).

    I also encountered with the word pahlawan and pendekar , like the sentences "pendekar yang memegang pedang bertelanjang (no scabbard)..."but not sure about their ranking...

    Hikayat Hang Tuah also mention the about aborigines people from scattered small island...They were called as Sakai and their elder as Batin....using Sumpit (blowpipe) and Damak (dart)...

    But I not encounter with the word Laskar / askar from my reading....
    Last edited by Nyz; 04-18-2010 at 11:53.

  10. #100
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    laskar means that they are "pseudo-arabic" troopers, because as far as Sonic tells me, both Aceh, and melayu Sultanates modelled their army after Ottoman ones...

    And our Melayu historian said that they don't have anything to replace the word "milisi" because "penjurit" is allready have conotation for middle-rank soldiers... so they said we may use the loaned words....

    BTW, we'll consider that after I can establish some contact and discuss that with sonic...

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  11. #101
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    hmm I think it's better to use loanword from Arab "Wataniah" (army raised during emergency) than the loan word from Europe Language..... if you are going to use loanword.... even the word milisi is not used in Malaysia. In Malaysia the word is "militan".
    Last edited by Nyz; 04-18-2010 at 20:54.

  12. #102
    Member Member Rahwana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    my malaysian friends are actually said that I should search the word from indonesia-malaysia common words.... but I admit that was because of overseeing or somewhat....
    Cute Wolf should allready sent you a message.
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  13. #103
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    Am I still in this?
    or, just a Public Relations OP
    x2


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  14. #104
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    I have found 2 more units that have been used in Melaka from Hikayat Hang Tuah:

    a) Pengawal (Townwatch): Working directly under Temenggung (equivalent to Malaysian nowadays Inspector-General of Police), raised when cases of stealing emerged. Equipped with kayu (woods), lembing (spear) and perisai (shield) maybe low quality

    b) Pertikaman: Working directly under Laksamana (Malacca Envoy). Equipped with tombak (pike), and get "musara" (gaji / salaries).

    I am not really sure that these 2 units are appropriate to which-one that were listed before....
    Last edited by Nyz; 04-20-2010 at 03:41.

  15. #105
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    wea llready got both of that unit in our lastest lists... but under the name of Malayan-Sriwijayan pikemen (both employed melayu pikemen), and city militia... (but the later is equipped with bows).... I think hikayat melayu told that city guards (pengawal kota), were equipped with bows and swords, and placed on the lookout of the city (language?)

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  16. #106
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    I think the attribute of Pengawal is equivalent to Melayu Militia. But nowadays the connotation of Pengawal is associated with someone with regularly paid salaries... I think better to change it to Orang Berkawal (Watchmen).

    "Maka baginda pun bertitah kepada Temenggung, "Hai Temenggung, suruh orang berkawal dan segala saudagar berkawal pada kampungnya."

    "Setelah hari malam maka Kertala Sari pun masuklah ke dalam kota. Maka didengarnya bunyi orang berkawal dan bunyi perisai lembing gemerentak."


    The Pengawal Kota is OK. It is logic that the City Guards equipped with bow and guarded the lookout (menara peninjau / pondok kawalan).


    Actually I am trying to find the equivalent unit name in history... to the modern ears, the words sometimes weird..... like Pertikaman.... from the word tikam (stab)...... modern Malay is not using this word anymore...but that was written in Hikayat Hang Tuah..

    Find the equivalent unit name in history is much harder than make direct translation... If I cannot find the word in literature, direct translation maybe the solution...


    hmmm can you tell me what is the different from sword, longsword or short sword? Is the short sword same as keris? or parang? I know "pedang" but in Hikayat Hang Tuah, the user of "pedang" is called Pendekar while the Melaka Court Royal Guard (Bentara) used keris panjang

    The usage of "pedang" is rarely in Malay culture.... parang, golok and keris are more used.
    Last edited by Nyz; 04-20-2010 at 14:47.

  17. #107
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    that was parang, (mungkin kita lebih baik bicara dicampur campur sedikit, karena parang, pedang, dan keris panjang semuanya bisa dibilang sebagai "sword".... bahasa inggris kurang kosakata )

    hmm... but what about the acehnese sword "pedeung"? it was definitely a one bladed cutlass (sometimes the back blade was sharpened in half too) with 60-75 cm blade... and that was descended from ancient malayan weapon.

    And the unit name "Pendekar" was allready used in their javanese spelling as the unit "Pandekar", armed with two handed swords, signature of the advanturer warrior class that time.

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  18. #108
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    I have 2 questions:

    a) Why you all use Malaka instead of Melaka?
    b) Could you make clarification to me what is short sword, sword and long sword?


    Pedang

    Usage of Pedang is rarely in Malay culture. Malay warriors were master of close combat. So usually they created the weapon suitable for close combat, ie have relatively short hilt and blade, ranged from the longest (keris panjang > parang / golok > keris biasa > belati > kerambit > lawi ayam (smaller than dagger, sometimes cannot be seen by other when held in the fist)

    In Sejarah Melayu, pedang was used as the protocol symbol / symbol of grandeur / symbol of sovereignty in the Court. “Pedang Kerajaan” was hold by Seri Amerta (protocol officer) in Melaka Court, as well as the scepter (ornamental rod carried by monarchs as symbol of sovereignty: cogan alam).

    Peudeung

    For Peudeung, I am not sure if it was descended from ancient Malay weapon. In Sejarah Melayu, there were written that Wan Empuk dan Wan Malini encountered with 3 foreign princes, wearing beautiful clothes, and holding Curik (an ancient weapon), Kayu Bercap (maybe staff?), Pedang (sword) and lembing (spear).

    They asked, “Who are you?” and the princes answered “we are the descendant of Iskandar Zulkarnain [from Makaduniah] (Alexander the Great from Macedonia)…… Malay legend also wants to associate the Malay King with Alexander

    This happen at Bukit Seguntang long long before Parameswara founded Melaka…Maybe this is the explanation of the ancient weapon…

    For Acheh, they maybe used peudeung extensively, because the peudeung symbol appeared on their flag, and they named their flag Alam Peudeung.

    Pendekar

    For Pendekar, Hikayat Hang Tuah associated pendekar with the usage of Pedang. So for the Malay unit that used pedang, like Half-Arab swordmen, I suggest that unit can be translated as Pendekar Syamsir (scimitar in Kamus Dewan and Hikayat Hang Tuah is syamsir) or to make it more Persian / Arabic sound, we can used “Pahlawan Syamsir” because the word Pahlawan derived from Persia.

    For Malay unit that not used pedang, the word pendekar maybe is not going to be used, and for that purpose, I want to get clarification that which unit use pedang, which unit use parang....

  19. #109
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    a) Why you all use Malaka instead of Melaka?
    I've been wondering same question. its called Malaka here.

  20. #110
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    Actually that was Sonic's work (blaming the poor Sonic)

    And the Half-Arab swordsmen thingies is a unit that all the initially Muslim factions will share, as they are called "bala kauman" in Babad Tanah Jawi, and I (no that was specifically my suggestion actually) throw the word "Laskar" at that place....

    Yeah, Aceh and Malaka (and to lesser extent Palembang and Sriwijayan dynasty) will share much of their units, since they are belongs to "melayu sucessor kingdoms" group. And while you maybe ask for Laskar Melayu (the cheap shortswordsmen unit, actually, they are extensively used in Northern part of Sumatera, and the Islands), they will use golok as their weapon. And while your comment actually give me some insight why Sonic get the unit of "Malakan Royal Swordsmen", I'm not sure on your arguments that "swords" are rare weaponary that time, as golok was widely available in common households that time.

    Oh yeah, sonic just contacted me, and he said that he get some citation from "hikayat Melayu(?)" and "sejarah Makuta Alam(?)" to prove that "parang" are very common weapon that time... *looking for his archieve that was left here in bandung*

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  21. #111
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    if I recall correctly, parang was popular but in kalimantan part of malaysia. it was originally a Dyak weapon.

  22. #112
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    pretty much, but we don't have kalimantan on the map.....

    and while the very same weapon was called mandau in Kalimantan, Javanese, Sundanese, and pretty much everyone allready had their own parang...

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  23. #113
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    a) Malaka or Melaka?

    So, We used Malaka or Melaka?


    b) Half-Arab Swordmen

    Oh I see, if there was a historical name for the unit, just use and retain it. "Bala" is common word in Malay, mean "Tentera" (loanword from Sanskrit, the word appear in Srivijayan Inscription of Kedukan Bukit), but kauman in Kamus Dewan mean "community"....


    c) Laskar

    There are Lasykar word in Hikayat Hang Tuah (at glossary) . But until now not encountered with it...still searching . Not sure which unit used laskar.


    d) Malakan Royal Swordsmen

    In Hikayat Hang Tuah, the Court Bodyguard was called Bentara. But they used Keris Panjang. There were 2 types of bodyguard, the royal bodyguard (Bentara) and the noble bodyguard (Pegawai dan Pertuanan).


    e) Parang

    Malay called it parang and it's common in our kitchen and garden...... Golok also common Malay word....

  24. #114
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    I think Melaka better. Kesultanan Melayu Melaka.

  25. #115
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    yeah, maybe we should change their name too... *kicking sonic's butt for that mistake*

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  26. #116
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    And, thanks for the critical correction you've made Intifadanyz.......

    could you help me with the city list on the Melakan Peninsulla then? I've made the map, but this is still WIP
    here's the lastest of my work, and I decide to retexture the map...


    what is your opinion about the textures? should we get back to standard RTW one? or this one (modified a bit M2 texture)

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  27. #117
    Sang Hulu Jurit Balamati Member plutoboyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    this better

  28. #118
    國王陛下 Member Nyz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    Wah!!! Cantiknya peta!!!

    hmmm, are you going to use dual colour for faction? I think single colour like EB is prettier.


    Anyway, this is the list:

    Cities list in Peninsular Malaysia

    1. Johor Mainland

    a) Johor Lama: start as just a fishing village at Johor River bank, then became capital for Johor-Riau-Lingga Sultanate in the reign of the first Johor Sultan, Sultan Alauddin Riayat Shah. She became a base for launching attack on Portuguese at Melaka.
    b) Batu Sawar
    c) Pagoh
    d) Muar

    2. Island at South of Johor

    a) Singapura (you named it Tumasik, don’t you? I am not sure, but in Sejarah Melayu it was called Temasik (not Tumasik) at the reign of Parameswara in Melaka, but in the reign of Sultan Mahmud Syah (last Sultan of Melaka), it was already called Singapura.
    b) Bentan
    c) Riau
    d) Lingga

    3. Melaka

    a) Melaka itself !!!!
    b) Bertam (at Ulu Melaka / Melaka inland)

    4. Negeri Sembilan

    a) Sungai Ujong

    5. Selangor

    a) Klang (stated in Sejarah Melayu as vassal of Melaka)
    b) Bernam / Sabak Bernam

    6. Perak

    a) Bruas (stated in Sejarah Melayu as vassal of Melaka, formerly as capital of ancient Hindu-Buddha kingdom of Gangga Negara)
    b) Tanah Abang (first capital of successor Melaka Sultanate of Perak)
    c) Relap Hati (at Hulu Perak/ Perak inland)

    7. Kedah

    a) Kota Seputeh
    b) Baling
    c) Langkawi (stated in Sejarah Melayu)

    8. Kelantan

    a) Chinta Wangsa (at Ulu Kelantan / Kelantan Inland)
    b) Jembal (at Hilir Kelantan / Lower Kelantan)
    c) Kota Mahligai (at Bachok, as former capital of Patani Kingdom)

    9. Terengganu

    a) Kuala Terengganu
    b) Kuala Berang (at Terengganu Inland / Hulu Terengganu)

    10. Pahang

    a) Pekan (at Kuala pahang / Lower Pahang)
    b) Ulu Tembeling (at Pahang inland)

    11. Patani

    a) Senggora (stated in Sejarah Melayu)
    b) Beredung Budi (at Hulu Patani / Patani inland)
    c) Grisek

    I think this is the cities list in peninsular Malaysia. I’ll update it if I have more infos.
    Last edited by Nyz; 04-23-2010 at 01:42.

  29. #119
    The Dark Knight Member wlesmana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    Guys, can you post pictures of weapon references so I can start modeling them. Seems like there's still a lot of debate to be done about the soldier models so weapon models are easier and more precise. The only reason I modeled the Melayu Militia so early is because they look like stereo-typical Maduran satay vendors so easy to imagine what they should look like.

  30. #120
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

    @intifadanyz :
    The faction we made will be the representation of 7 dominant royal family and their allied families in this period (even when their "kingdom" at the starting date will be soon to be destroyed... or at most history books, they are considered allready non existant (such as the inclusion of Buddhist Sriwijayan lineage, actually they officially called the alliance kingdom of Jambi with kingdom of Pematang Purba here, but they still called themself Sriwijaya, and using Sriwijayan symbols, the same goes to Majapahit, as theiy are actually representing the Blambangan and Balinese Sucessor kingdoms, that was still called themself "wong Majapahit".) the Royal family actually just made another kingdoms, or move to somewhere else) the map faction colours is still using default BI factions for map-making purpose, you could see that Berbers will turn into Melaka, Sassanids will turn into Aceh, Franks will turn into Sriwijaya, Saxons will turn into Palembang, Vandals will turn into Pajajaran, Huns will turn into Majapahit, and Bintara are not yet made their regions, due to CTD when I try to made Muria Straits (DARRRNNNNN LANDMASS RATIO!!!! actually the muria peninsulla at that time was Muria island, separated by a small strait). BTW, we'll almost certain to use one colour faction, except for Portugese and VOC (so they'll have better mark)

    @ Wlesmana
    Maybe I'll post that as soon as I've going back to my kost (berapa hari ini di lab terus, ngerjain TA... hehehehe)

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