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Thread: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

  1. #1
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default The Europa Barbarorum Film Project



    Greeting Europa Barbarorum fans.


    One of the new features presented in Medieval II: Total War, and actually a feature recovered from the much loved Shogun: Total War, are the assassination and spying videos.

    In Europa Barbarorum II these videos will be brought back to the Classical era of antiquity with live action video from hard working volunteers. Fans will be greeted with Roman assassins, Greek diplomats and Nomad spies. What Europa Barbarorum needs now for these videos are script ideas. We have many already but are in need of more.

    Thus we will be holding a competition for accepting examples from historical sources of spying, sabotage and assassination. Everyone is invited to present examples together with the source from which it came. The contest will close on April 20th and the examples accepted will be announced and those who gave them added to the credits.

    Video submissions will also be accepted if you are so ambitious but there is no guarantee they will be used, and if they are it will likely be parts of them, clips used to supplement the videos we make. Any videos submitted here will be reckoned EB property to use as we choose. Please include credits with any video submission.



    The videos are divided first by type, spying, sabotage and assassination, then by culture, which is determined by the culture of the agent, not the victim. This means that the videos will have to be somewhat generalized based on the most likely victims for each culture group. The heavy Hellenization of the Mediterranean should help with this. So for each of the 7 cultures there are 3 video types, each with 3-4 possibilities which may include a specifically outdoor possibility. Thus the number of videos will total somewhere around 60-70, each with 2-3 endings. Each video is divided into 3-4 parts. The most important are the 'Main', the opening of that video, 'Success', wherein the agent accomplishes their mission, and 'Failure', wherein the agent does not achieve their objective, but survives. Most videos also include the ending 'Death', wherein the agent fails and dies in action.

    A reminder of the cultures in EBII; Roman, Semitic, West Hellenic, East Hellenic, Eastern, Nomad and Barbarian.
    Culture Types Agent Types Mission Types Video Parts
    Roman Spy Infiltrate Town Main
    Semitic . Infiltrate Army Success
    Eastern Assassin Assassinate Failure
    East Hellenic . Sabotage Death
    Nomad . .
    Barbarian . . .
    West Hellenic . . .

    Factions by Culture:
    Semitic: Carthage, Saba, Numidia
    Roman: Rome
    Barbarian: Sweboz, Iberians, British, Gauls, Boii and Getai
    West Hellenic: Makedonia, KH, Epeiros
    East Hellenic: Seleukids, Ptolemies, Baktria, Pergamon, Bosphorus
    Eastern: Pontus, Hayasdan
    Nomad: Saka, Sauromatae, Pahlava

    All the research into the mechanics of the videos in Medieval II: Total War has been done by Tanit, whose main skills lie largely in the research and writing department. Thus if anyone in the community has discovered more about these videos and their mechanics please feel free to correct us, thus aiding in the development of EB2.



    The Rules

    1. No Spam will be tolerated. Spurious, "funny", or obscene posts will be deleted and the poster reported to global moderators if necessary. If the Team's time is wasted on policing juvenile spam, the project will be abandoned and the thread locked and/or deleted.

    2. Look at the examples already proposed in earlier posts. Posting something that is already there just wastes everyone's time. A search of the thread will help determine if your idea has already been posted.

    3. The Team will decide which examples will be included. There may be an upper limit to how many are possible, and overall balance will also be a consideration. Ultimately, we'll decide what goes in the release, although anyone can modify their own version if they wish.

    4. Do the Research. Don't just post a random example- we need some information about whatever it is you think should be included. Examples from somewhat before or after our time period are still acceptable, though will be subject to the discretion of the team.

    5. Be Original. Do not just copy and paste Wikipedia articles- if you care enough about a cool feature of the ancient world to suggest it to us, care enough to go into detail.

    6. Please Post Any Video Submissions as Links. This prevents the thread from having ridiculous loading times.



    The Pilot from November 13, 2009

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanit View Post
    Ok, I was unable to upload the videos because my version of Quicktime is out of date. But here are the links.

    Main - The start of the video which remains the same for all endings.
    http://emilyschooley.com/rome/main.mov

    Success - Wherein the victim is assassinated.
    http://emilyschooley.com/rome/win.mov

    Fail - Wherein victim lives and assassin escapes.
    http://emilyschooley.com/rome/fail.mov

    Death - Wherein victim lives and assassin dies.
    http://emilyschooley.com/rome/death.mov

    Some notes to keep in mind. First, this is a pilot, we were forced to shoot it with less preparation than we would have liked due to the increasingly colder weather here in Canada. But, seeing as its a pilot and not the final video we figured this was ok. Because it was cold our costumes were not perfect, for example we kept our pants and socks on. Also certain costume and weapon elements were poorly finished in order to be done on time.

    Second, I had a bunch of people quit on me last minute. Normally I would have scheduled a reshoot, but given the weather I just went ahead and shot the video with only three actors instead of six. This is not representative of what the videos would be like in the spring.

    Third. This video is not completely finished being edited yet (no credits) and has temporarily had music added to it, dunno why, but it will not be there, or will be replaced by EB music in the end. Other than that, enjoy!

    The Victim


    The Assassin


    The Scythian Guard


    Credits:
    The Roman Assassin - Jeremy Landry
    The Hellenistic Victim - Tanit
    The Scythian Guard - TheEpigone
    Direction/Editing - Emily Schooley
    Filming - C. Edward Stewart
    Costumes/Props/Film Assistants - Tanit, TheEpigone, Dizzy, Andrew, Tally




    Some Examples:

    Not all cultures will have examples from literature or archaeology or either. The purpose of these examples is to get a feel of the strategies used in espionage and assassination in general in the ancient world. Examples from Hellenic or Latin literature may be used for Semitic or Gallic videos. The following quotes are examples of assassinations from literary sources, in this case The Jugurthine War by Gaius Crispus Sallust. Submissions may come in the form of your own words, images or quotations as long as their source is provided.

    XII. At that first meeting between the princes which I have mentioned, they had determined, as a safeguard against disputes, to divide the treasures and to settle the limits of their several dominions. A date was fixed for each of these measures, but the division of the money was to be made first. Meanwhile the princes retired to different places in the neighborhood of the treasury, and it so happened that Hiempsal, who was in the town of Thermida, occupied the house of a man who had acted as Jugurtha's nearest attendant, and had always been esteemed and favored by him. Finding this instrument offered him by chance, Jugurtha loaded him with promises, and induced him on pretense of visiting his own property to go to his house and procure copies of the keys to the gates, as the true ones were always delivered to Hiempsal; for the rest, he said, that on a fitting opportunity he would come in person with a strong body of followers. The Numidian soon executed his orders, and, according to his instructions, admitted Jugurtha's soldiers by night. They burst into the house and searched for the king in every direction, killing some of his attendants as they slept and others as they ran out to mmet them, ransacking every recess, breaking bars and bolts, and with their noise and tumult causing a general confusion. In the midst of this, Hiempsal was found hiding in the hut of a female slave, whither at the outset he had fled in his fright and ignorance of the place. The Numidians, according to their orders, conveyed his head to Jugurtha. - From Gaius Crispus Sallust's The Jugurthine War
    XXXV. There was at this time in Rome a certain Numidian, by name Massiva, a son of Gulassa, and grandson of Massinissa. In the struggle between the kings he had opposed Jugurtha, and, on the surrender of Cirta and murder of Adherbal, had fled from his country into exile. Spurius Albinus, consul with Quintus Minucius Rufus in the year after Bestia, now persuaded him, since he was of the stock of Massinissa, and Jugurtha for his crimes was loaded with odium and fear, to beg the kingdom of Numidia from the Senate. The consul was eager to conduct a war, and so preferred a general agitation to letting the matter lose its interest; for the province of Numidia had fallen to himself; that of Macedonia to Minucius. On Massiva beginning to stir in the matter, Jugurtha, who found no sufficient defense in his friends, some of them were embarrassed by their consciousness of guilt, others by their ill repute or their own fears, ordered Bomilcar, his most intimate and trusty attendant, to employ the bribery by which he had accomplished so much, in hiring assassins to attack Massiva, and to kill the Numidian, secretly if he could, or, failing this, by any means whatever. Bomilcar speedily carried out the king's commands, and, by means of men skilled in such business, gained information as to his victim's journeys and departures, and, in fine, as to all the places he was in the habit of frequenting, and the hours which he observed. He then directed the attack as the circumstances made advisable. One of the band who were hired to commit the murder rushed upon Massiva somewhat hastily, and though he cut him down, was himself seized. At the instance of many advisers, and especially of the Consul Albinus, this man turned informer, and Bomilcar was made to stand a trial, rather on considerations of equity than by the law of nations, since he was in attendance on one who had come to Rome under the public guarantee. Though detected in so great a crime, Jugurtha did not abandon the struggle against facts until he perceived that the odium of his deed was too great for either influence or money to overcome. On the first hearing of the case he had given fifty sureties from his friends, but now, thinking more of his kingdom than his sureties, he privily dispatched Bomilcar to Numidia, in the fear that, should he be punished, the rest of his accomplices might be seized with a dread of obeying him. A few days afterwards he himself set out on the same journey, as he was commanded by the Senate to leave Italy. When he had passed out of Rome, he is said, after often looking back on it in silence, at last to have cried: "A city for sale, soon to fall if once it find a buyer." - From Gaius Crispus Sallust's The Jugurthine War


    We hope you enjoy this preview of one of EB II's features.

    Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB II, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.

    As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:

    Europa Barbarorum ORG forum

    Europa Barbarorum TWC forum

    Or PM Tanit directly.

    We give special thanks to Imagehost and Image Shack, which provide us with a simple, foolproof, free and secure way to show you all these pictures.

    Have a great day!

    Regards,

    The Europa Barbarorum team.

    Last edited by Tanit; 03-31-2010 at 00:42.



  2. #2
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Post reserved.

    Spying:
    Carrier Pigeon - SwissBarbar (Sextus Iulius Frontinus)
    Swimming Spy - SwissBarbar (Sextus Iulius Frontinus/Thukydides)
    Bribing guard - Jirisys

    Assassination:
    Assassin disguised in toga - Jirisys
    Planting snake in bed - darius_d (Life of Anthony, Plutarch)
    Assassin aided by courtesan - Ibrahim
    Last edited by Tanit; 03-31-2010 at 09:00.



  3. #3
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    If I am well informed it is since the 4th century BC, that carrier pigeons have been used to carry secret messages. It is said that a pigeon only had 48 hours to fly the 800 km distance from Babylon to Aleppo. Therefore I think it would be nice to have a video going like this for the East Hellenic Cultur:

    Main:
    The Spy listenes to two Generals who speak about somethink secret. He steals away. - Next Scene - You see him at a window attaching a Message to a Pigeon.

    Success:
    The Pigeon flies away - Next Scene - You see a General of yours reading the message.

    Failure:
    The Pigeon flies away - Next Scene - You see a hunter shooting the Bird - Optional Next Scene - You see the hunter eating the bird and throwing away the message unread.

    Death:
    Guards have followed your spy and catch him. They kill him before he can let the bird flap away. - Optional Next Scene - You see the Guards eating the bird. ;-)
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-30-2010 at 19:11.
    Balloon-Count: x 15


    Many thanks to Hooahguy for this great sig.

  4. #4
    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Koinon hellenon (west hellenic): assasination

    Main: An assasin is getting dressed in a greek toga and moves towards a temple or a government building and looks for his target (day)

    Success: The assasin follows a man from the building or temple into a lonely street, there he stabs his neck and goes off running (night)

    Failure: The assasin follows the man, but when he gets to the lonely street, there is a cohort (or one) hoplite (or any soldier) in an alley perpendicular to the street and marches between both of them (without paying atention to the assasin) and follows the man, and the assasin turns back and leaves (night)

    Death: The assasin follows the man, but when he gets to the lonely street he is noticed by his target not to be and he starts yelling for help, when the aforementioned hoplite(s) (or soldier(s)) comes in and stabs him on the back him while he's trying to escape, then he goes to the body and stabs him one more time, killing him (night)

    Hope they are ok, if they are not, please tell me, all critics will be appreciated

    Edit: I put the time of day i want them to be (or i imagine would be best)

    ~Jirisys (on his first EB spy/assasin film script proposal)
    Last edited by jirisys; 03-30-2010 at 23:31.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Because we all need to compensate...

  5. #5
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Updated first post with list of factions by culture. I like where this is going, good format to your suggestions. However, sources are always great! Keep up the great replies!



  6. #6
    busy mercenary Member darius_d's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    All right, I can propose assassination script - the deadly snake bite.

    Historical source:
    Plutarch, Life of Anthony, 85-86 (death of Cleopatra)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    85 After such lamentations, she wreathed and kissed the urn, and then ordered a bath to be prepared for herself. After her bath, she reclined at table and was making a sumptuous meal. And there came a man from the country carrying a basket; and when the guards asked him what he was bringing there, he opened the basket, took away the leaves, and showed them that the dish inside was full of figs. The guards were amazed at the great size and beauty of the figs, whereupon the man smiled and asked them to take some; so they felt no mistrust and bade him take them in. After her meal, however, Cleopatra took a tablet which was already written upon and sealed, and sent it to Caesar, and then, sending away all the rest of the company except her two faithful women, she closed the doors.

    But Caesar opened the tablet, and when he found there lamentations and supplications of one who begged that he would bury her with Antony, he quickly knew what had happened. At first he was minded to go himself and give aid; then he ordered messengers to go with all speed and investigate. But the mischief had been swift. For though his messengers came on the run and found the guards as yet aware of nothing, when they opened the doors they found Cleopatra lying dead upon a golden couch, arrayed in royal state. And of her two women, the one called Iras was dying at her feet, while Charmion, already tottering and heavy-handed, was trying to arrange the diadem which encircled the queen's brow. Then somebody said in anger: "A fine deed, this, Charmion!" "It is indeed most fine," she said, "and befitting the descendant of so many kings." Not a word more did she speak, but fell there by the side of the couch.

    86 It is said that the asp was brought with those figs and leaves and lay hidden beneath them, for thus Cleopatra had given orders, that the reptile might fasten itself upon her body without her being aware of it. But when she took away some of the figs and saw it, she said: "There it is, you see," and baring her arm she held it out for the bite. 2 But others say that the asp was kept carefully shut up in a water jar, and that while Cleopatra was stirring it up and irritating it with a golden distaff it sprang and fastened itself upon her arm. But the truth of the matter no one knows; for it was also said that she carried about poison in a hollow comb and kept the comb hidden in her hair; and yet neither spot nor other sign of poison broke out upon her body. 3 Moreover, not even was the reptile seen within the chamber, though people said they saw some traces of it near the sea, where the chamber looked out upon it with its windows. And some also say that Cleopatra's arm was seen to have two slight and indistinct punctures; and this Caesar also seems to have believed. For in his triumph an image of Cleopatra herself with the asp clinging to her was carried in the procession.e These, then, are the various accounts of what happened.


    Using poisonous animal - like snake, scorpion or spider - sound to me very classic. To make a film I think that realistic looking toys will make it decently.

    So, here's the script:

    Mission Attempt.
    Scene 1.
    The assassin is seen sneaking his way into the chamber (or a tent) of his to-be-victim.
    Scene 2.
    In the close up view one could see pretty well that in the bag he carries there is something moving inside.
    Alternatively - he carries a basket and opens a lid for a moment to reassure - in this moment the camera is zooming to show a snake inside.
    The guy is looking uncertain and nervously looking around, prone to make an error under tense pressure...
    (In case you can make another scenario for skilled assassin, he could look quite relaxed).
    Scene 3.
    The assassin arrives to the destination place - preferably bedroom.
    He takes the bag upside down (lays the basket on side wit lid open) and the snake comes out. Then he tries to catch it by its tail to put it under bed linen.

    Success.
    Scene 1.
    The assassin's hand is shaking and the snake is moving but he manages to hold and then to put the animal under the bed linen. He then hears some noise but in the same moment he is leaving quickly unnoticed.
    Scene 2.
    The victim goes to bed, relaxing, and happy to tae the well deserved rest. But suddenly his face is going to show a dreadful fear and pain, the victim cries. The snake is shown and the skin where was beaten. The victim cries again...

    Fail.
    The assassin's hand is shaking and the snake is moving but he manages to hold the animal for its tail. However soon he can hear some noise that someone's approaching, and then panicking before he could put the animal under bed linen. Instead, the snake falls from his hand on the floor and escapes to scene. He's pretty dissappointed. With the animal lost he waits for the guards to pass and escapes the scene.

    Death.
    Scene 1.
    The assassin's hand is shaking and the snake is moving but he manages to hold the animal for its tail. However soon he can hear some noise that someone's approaching, and then panicking before he could put the animal under bed linen. In very unfortunate way the snake falls on his chest instead, and bites him. He's deadly scared.
    Scene 2.
    He runs out of the room, his caution decreased by panic mode and is soon noticed by the guards. They kill him on scene.
    Alternatively he is found lying dead in the same room where he was biten (but it takes some time for the poison to work).

  7. #7
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanit View Post
    Post reserved.

    Spying:
    Carrier Pigeon - SwissBarbar (If you could find a source, even secondary, that would be awesome)
    I have it from an article ;-) According to Wikipedia, Plinius the elder mentiones in his "naturalis historia", that Decimus Iunius Brutus Albinus held contact with Aulus Hirtius, while he was besieged by Marcus Antonius at Mutina, by sending pigeons. Sextus Julius Frontinus mentiones Caesar using them during his conquest in Gallia. It says, that the Persians used them first.

    I will find you better sources. Look for my next post.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-30-2010 at 22:00.
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    Many thanks to Hooahguy for this great sig.

  8. #8
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Idea: Swimming spy when sneaking after an army

    Cultures: Roman, Eastern Hellenic, Western Hellenic (actually possible for every faction)

    Sources:
    Sextus Iulius Frontinus mentiones soldiers carrying messages swimming (3,13 De emittendo et recipiendo nuntio).
    NOTE Btw: Here are also the carrier-pigeons mentioned Look for the bold writing.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Origignal
    XIII. De Emittendo et Recipiendo Nuntio
    1 Romani, obsessi in Capitolio, ad Camillum ab exilio implorandum miserunt Pontium Cominium, qui, ut stationes Gallorum falleret, per saxa Tarpeia demissus tranato Tiberi Veios pervenit et perpetrata legatione similiter ad suos rediit.

    2 Campani, diligenter Romanis, a quibus obsessi erant, custodias agentibus, quendam pro transfuga subornatum miserunt, qui occultatam balteo epistulam inventa effugiendi causa [occasione] ad Poenos pertulit.

    3 Venationi quoque et pecoribus quidam insuerunt litteras membranis mandatas.

    4 Aliqui et iumento in aversam partem infulserunt, dum stationes transeunt.

    5 Nonnulli interiora vaginarum inscripserunt.

    6 L. Lucullus, Cyzicenos obsessos a Mithridate ut certiores adventus sui faceret, cum praesidiis hostium teneretur introitus urbis, qui unus et angustus ponte modico insulam continenti iungit, militem e suis nandi et nauticae artis peritum iussit insidentem duobus inflatis utribus litteras insutas habentibus, p248quos ab inferiore parte duabus regulis inter se distantibus commiserat, ire septem milium passuum traiectum. Quod ita perite gregalis fecit, ut cruribus velut gubernaculis dimissis cursum dirigeret et procul visentis, qui in statione erant, marinae specie beluae deciperet.

    7 Hirtius consul ad Decimum Brutum, qui Mutinae ab Antonio obsidebatur, litteras subinde misit plumbo scriptas, quibus ad brachium religatis milites Scultennam amnem tranabant.

    8 Idem columbis, quas inclusas ante tenebris et fame affecerat, epistulas saeta ad collum religabat easque a propinquo, in quantum poterat, moenibus loco emittebat. Illae lucis cibique avidae altissima aedificiorum petentes excipiebantur a Bruto, qui eo modo de omnibus rebus certior fiebat, utique postquam disposito quibusdam locis cibo columbas illuc devolare instituerat.


    Translation
    XIII. On Sending and Receiving Messages
    1 When the Romans were besieged in the Capitol, they sent Pontius Cominius to implore Camillus to come to their aid. Pontius, to elude the pickets of the Gauls, let himself down over the Tarpeian Rock, swam the Tiber, and reached Veii. Having accomplished his errand, he returned by the same route to his friends.63

    2 When the Romans were maintaining careful guard against the inhabitants of Capua, whom they were besieging, the latter sent a certain fellow in the guise of a deserter, and he, finding an opportunity to escape, conveyed to the Carthaginians a letter which he had secreted in his belt.64

    3 Some have written messages on skins and then sewed these to the carcasses of game or sheep.

    4 Some have stuffed the message under the tail of a mule while passing the picket-posts.

    5 Some have written on the linings of scabbards.

    6 When the Cyzicenes were besieged by Mithridates, Lucius Lucullus wished to inform them of his approach. There was a single narrow entrance to the city, connecting the island with the mainland by a small bridge. Since this was held by forces of the enemy, he sewed some letters up inside two inflated skins and then ordered one of his soldiers, an adept p249in swimming and boating, to mount the skins, which he had fastened together at the bottom by two strips some distance apart, and to make the trip of •seven miles across. So skilfully did the soldier do this that, by spreading his legs, he steered his course as though by rudder, and deceived those watching from a distance by appearing to be some marine creature.65

    7 The consul Hirtius often sent letters inscribed on lead plates to Decimus Brutus, who was besieged by Antonius at Mutina. The letters were fastened to the arms of soldiers, who then swam across the Scultenna River.66

    8 Hirtius also shut up pigeons in the dark, starved them, fastened letters to their necks by a hair, and then released them as near to the city walls as he could. The birds, eager for light and food, sought the highest buildings and were received by Brutus, who in that way was informed of everything, especially after he set food in certain spots and taught the pigeons to alight there.67


    So there were soldiers, who carry messages swimming, according to the sources used during the siege of Kyzikene 74 BC and also during the siege of Mutina 43 BC .
    Even Thukydides mentiones them: At Pylos, Sparta encouraged people to help the Spartans, who were surrounded by Athenians at Sphakteria 425 BC, by smuggling supply goods to them. The danger to be discovered when doing this in a ship was great, so many tried to smuggle goods swimming. According to Thukydides (Thuk. 4,26,5 – 7) Sparta had promised not only great rewards to those who help, but also that they would replace lost or damaged ships. The strategy was successful until the Athenians started to look for these swimmers explicitly.
    Also during the siege of Syrakus 415 to 413 BC many divers were on duty.They were paid to saw down the stakes, with which the Syrakusians tried to protect their port entrance, from under water. (Thuk. 7,25).


    This is very close to a spy, there is no reason, why an ancient spy should not be swimming. The advantage is, that –if your are an experienced swimmer and diver - you are quite silent and it’s very hard to discover you in the night!


    Plot:

    Main
    You see a military camp in the loop of a smaller stream (not a big river, because only smaller ones can also NOT be on the strategy map). Two guards are standing near the stream, turning their backs towards the water, and therefore not seeing the man quietly passing them swimming.
    The spy swims to the tents, leaves the water and sneaks to the tent of the General, where you see light and some shadows from outside.
    The spy kneels, lifts the flysheet of the tent and sticks his head into it. He listenes to some important military matters.

    Success
    Heard enough, back to the small river, passing the guards and off

    Fail
    One of the officers in the tent sees his head and shouts. The spy runs to the river, takes a header and swims away.

    Death
    One of the officers in the tent sees his head and shouts. The spy runs to the river, wants to take a header but a spear hits his back.

    OR

    One of the officers in the tent sees his head and shouts. The spy runs to the river, takes a header, swims away but is hit by one of the arrows that were shot at him. You see him sink.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-31-2010 at 15:32.
    Balloon-Count: x 15


    Many thanks to Hooahguy for this great sig.

  9. #9
    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Roman (roman) spy: infiltrate town

    (every scene is at night)

    Main: The spy is talking, and then paying a manipular commander (or a centurion if marian)

    Success: He grabs the spy and inmobilize him, with the spy replicating that it was too hard, so he softens the arm (to notice that it was a ruse), they get to the gate, a guard asks him what he's doing, the commander (or centurion) tells him, and the guard lets them pass, on a next scene, they are seen inside a city and the spy is looking in his robes and gives him more money, and the spy leaves sight

    Failure: The commander (or centurion) grabs his sword and threatens the spy, he angrily looks in his robes and gives him a bag, the commander (or centurion) looks in it, and orders him to leave, the spy leaves angrily and cursing, the commander cries for a guard, and the spy shuts up and runs

    Death: The commander (or centurion) grabs his sword and threatens the spy, he angrily looks in his robes and gives him a bag, the commander (or centurion) looks in it, and slashes his throat open, while he screams for mercy, and gets killed, the commander (or centurion) walks away with the money

    ~Jirisys (too bored to put something in here)
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  10. #10
    busy mercenary Member darius_d's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Well, actually I must conclude I am not an enthusiast of such movies, sorry. It's because I am not an enthusiasts of spies and assassins in the way they are function in this game, first of all. They give way too false impressions about how intelligence missions were performed those days. Hardly ever it was one-man life-risking missions.

    Usually intelligence was gathered directly by army scouting forces, observing enemy's camps or cities, from local inhabitants, travellers, colonists and captured enemies. Each major military campaign is a good example - like Hannibal's campaign in Italy. I doubt if you can make movies in this fashion, can you?

    I believe historically accurate illustration screens with varying descriptions would be better, or better yet - deactivation of spy and assassin units, why to spoil historical flavor of the game.

  11. #11
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Yes, videos can involve more than one person as representing the spy/assassin. In fact, that is a major goal of these videos. However, there will always be the character who represents the actual campaign map unit who is the one who's death matters in the video. For example, a Roman 'assassin' might just be an officer or soldier or representative who pays an opponent's trusted comrades to betray them. But it is the Roman character who must die if the mission ends with that result, regardless of whether or not the other conspirators die.



  12. #12
    Vindicative son of a gun Member Jolt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Damn, Tanit! You must have caught a dismal cold filming with those clothes!

    One question about these movies. I suppose there aren't going to be any dialogues, correct? Even if the actors are speaking to each other, all audio will be covered by an approppriate soundtrack correct?
    BLARGH!

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    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolt View Post
    Damn, Tanit! You must have caught a dismal cold filming with those clothes!

    One question about these movies. I suppose there aren't going to be any dialogues, correct? Even if the actors are speaking to each other, all audio will be covered by an approppriate soundtrack correct?
    Yes that is what i'm wondering, will there be speech or just music?
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  14. #14
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    This is partially dependant upon the seeting of any individual video. However, for the most part sound will be limited to ambient noise (wind, birds, etc) and inarticulate sounds such as sounds of exertion, pain or surprise. Any actual dialog will likely be done if Greek if there is any.

    Damn, Tanit! You must have caught a dismal cold filming with those clothes!
    Yeah it was pretty cold! Luckily I have fairly good resistance to cold.



  15. #15
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    I know this may seem riske, but I'm going by ancillary logic (I noticed that some assassins in the RTW version use courtesans):

    Scene 1: the assassin disguises himself as a slave merchant/dignitary, and with him are a bunch of women.
    Scene 2: he arrives at wherever our target is, to be inspected and introduced.

    success:

    Scene 1: they assassin is dining with the women in the presense of the target (its a drinking part, like Macedonians have). one of the women gets the attentions of the target, and he asks her over to bed.
    Scene 2: the "courtesan* pretends to seduce the target, when the courtesan sneakily pulls out a dagger she has, and quickly executes the target.
    Scene 3: since everyone is disrtacted/drunk, the assassin and his "courtesan" slip away in the dead of night.

    Failure (escapes):
    scene 1: the people who inspect him rifles through his stuff a but too well, and find instructions for the assasination.
    scene 2: they confront him, but as they do, he runs away. he quickly finds a place of hiding or escape. meanwhile, his "slaves/courtesans" ge confiscated.

    Failure (killed).
    same as Failure 1, only they kill the assassin before he can get away, and they confiscate his "slaves".


    as to sources? hey, you guys put the courtesan ancillary in EB1, so I'm assuming its historical
    Last edited by Ibrahim; 04-02-2010 at 22:55.
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  16. #16
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    Failure (killed).
    same as success, only they kill the assassin before he can get away, and they confiscate his "slaves".:
    Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the target survive the assassination attempt?


  17. #17
    busy mercenary Member darius_d's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanit View Post
    Yes, videos can involve more than one person as representing the spy/assassin. In fact, that is a major goal of these videos. However, there will always be the character who represents the actual campaign map unit who is the one who's death matters in the video. For example, a Roman 'assassin' might just be an officer or soldier or representative who pays an opponent's trusted comrades to betray them. But it is the Roman character who must die if the mission ends with that result, regardless of whether or not the other conspirators die.
    Assassin videos seem most suitable to do but my doubt about them is that historically killings were usually a result of internal power struggle (son conspiring to kill his family to take a throne, praetorian guard commander killing his emperor etc). But in the game assassins are designed for missions deep in enemy's territory against other faction's character, and this appears to me ahistorical. I remember that Romans did it very occasionally (and yet they were using traitors like in Spain, not their own assassin) but who else?. I remain unconvinced but going to see what you can do.

    EDIT: decided to help with another script. It is quite funny exercise.

    Assassin script: Dressed up (fake) officer.
    This is quite universal scenario for different cultures, and many variants are possible.

    Disclaimer:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I don't know if this was included in M2TW vanilla game as I could never had an occasion to check it.


    Attempt.
    Camera is showing an officer saluting to the general and then leaving his room. The general is turning back and coming to the table to continue study maps or manouvers.
    The leaving officer is passing the guards standing outside by the room entry and they salute him.
    A few seconds later another officer in full panoply and helmet is approaching to the entry. The guards salute and let him pass untroubled. However he is the assassin, and camera is zooming on his sword's blade visible behind the cloak when he's entering the room.

    Success.
    The general doesn't see the assassin approaching from behind because he is so busy studying his drawings. Just before the strike the general accidentaly moves, though, nevertheless the assassin has no problem to catch him firmly and deliver a deadly stab in his back, shuting screaming mouth by hand. The general falls dead. The assassin leaves untroubled.

    Fail.
    The general doesn't see the assassin approaching from behind because he is so busy studying his drawings. Just before the strike the general accidentaly moves, though, and the assassin fails to deliver a killing move, he misses. The wrestling fight begins and the general screams for help. The first officer and then guards appear and rush to help. However the assassin quickly frees himself from general, then swiftly deals with the upcoming officer and guards and escapes for safety.
    Alternatively:
    The first officer who's just left reacts like if he forgot something and decides to come back to the general, or: -the guards rise their doubts about identity of the second officer and they decide to follow him inside.
    The assassin is catched before he can reach the unsuspecting general. He just manages to free himself but must escape and abort the mission.

    Death.
    The general doesn't see the assassin approaching from behind because he is so busy studying his drawings. Just before the strike the general accidentaly moves, though, and the assassin fails to deliver a killing move, he misses. The wrestling fight begins and the general screams for help.
    After short fight the assassin is killed - either by general, the returning officer or by the guards.
    Alternatively: the assassin is catched and killed by returing officer or by suspicious guards before he reaches surprised general.
    Last edited by darius_d; 03-31-2010 at 14:09. Reason: added new script

  18. #18
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    I just remembered the story -well, myth - of Scaevola (Livius 2,12,1-13,5)

    Gaius Mucius had saved the city of Roma, when it was besieged by the Etruscans under King Porsenna in 508 BC.
    He sneaked into the enemy's camp in order to murder the king. Unfortunately he killed the wrong person and got caught. Facing King Porsenna, Gaius Mucius put his right hand into a Fire and let it burn, without even contorting his face. Impressed by this example of bravery, Porsenna raised the siege of Roma and the city was safe. From that moment, Gaius Mucius got the cognomen Scaevola (lefthand).

    Ispired by this source, I propose an Assassins-Video.

    Culture: Possible for all

    Main
    You see a dignified looking man studying some documents. He is so focused, that he does not notice the man approaching from behing. You see a dagger flashing.

    Success
    You see only the assassins face, when he stabs (or slashes) and hear a gurgling noise. In the next scene you see the assassin riding away through the night.

    Failure
    The to be victim openes a shiny box, looks at something shiny of which I have not yet thought, sees the reflection of the assassin lunging out to stab and can dodge the onslaught.
    The guards he called can arrest the assassin, who now is being asked who has sent him. He says nothing. One of the guards shouts at him. "Tell us!". The assassin sadly lowers his head and says: "I'll tell you..." - Cut, next scene - They thow him on a dirty spot and shout: "If we ever see you again, you'll be dead!"

    Failure
    The to be victim openes a shiny box, looks at something shiny of which I have not yet thought, sees the reflection of the assassin lunging out to stab and can dodge the onslaught.
    The guards he called can arrest the assassin, who now is being asked who has sent him. He says nothing. One of the guards shouts at him. "Tell us!". The assassins shouts back: "NEVER!". - Cut, next scene - It is morning, and you see him being beheaded. - Well, you don't actually see his head, you see the executioner raising his sword and striking...


    Hint: Will there be different videos wether an assassing kills a diplomatist, a spy, another assassin or a general? I don't think so. Therefore - if you did not already think of that - please remember when making the videos, that the target of the assassin must look, as if he could be anyone of those characters.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-31-2010 at 16:22.
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  19. #19
    That other EB guy Member Tanit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissBarbar View Post
    Hint: Will there be different videos wether an assassing kills a diplomatist, a spy, another assassin or a general? I don't think so. Therefore - if you did not already think of that - please remember when making the videos, that the target of the assassin must look, as if he could be anyone of those characters.
    this is something I have been unable to determine through testing. The file names do not suggest it, but sometimes the victim's agent type seems to be taken into account in the videos. Further testing is needed. If it can be proven that this is something the engine can recognize then the number of videos can be increased.



  20. #20
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Spying on an army

    All you want of your spy ist o know how many of what kind of troops the enemy has. He does not need to actually infiltrate the enemy’s army, if fact, he does not even always bring you all the information you want, even if he was successful. So it would be perfectly accurate, if your spy just watches the enemy army for a while and then retreats to give you the news. In that case he would act as a military scout.

    Sources: Xenophon (426 to 355 BC), in his Hipparchikˇs 4.5, recommends the (cavalry) commander to use spotters in addition to the usual advance guard!
    Also Thukydides mentiones Syrakousian mounted scouts riding to the Athenian camp (but not covered, they insult the Athenians ;-)), (6,63,3)
    Other sources concerning rider scouts: Xen. Cyr. 3,2,1; 5,4,4; 6,3,2; An. 6,3,14. / Polybios 3,45,1-3; 3,95;10,32,1 / Diodor 19,38,1

    Cultures: All possible

    Main
    You see your spy sneaking through high grass (or any other covery, something that fits for all climate-zones) and watching a military camp.

    Success
    He sneaks to the next spot and again watches. Then he sneaks away, gets on a horse and rides away

    Failure
    Before he really can see, what’s going on, he’s caught by some scouts of the enemy. They pursue him, but he can get to his horse and ride away.

    Death
    He sneaks to the next spot and again watches. Then he sneaks away and gets on a horse. But as he’s on the horse, somebody (enemy scout) tugs him from the horse and as he lies on the ground, stabs a spear in his stomach.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-31-2010 at 17:08.
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  21. #21
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Infiltrating a city

    Sources: Plutarchos mentioned in his „Sertorius“ (3,2) that Sertorius wore celtic clothes and even spoke their tongue, so he could spy on them undetected.
    In Sert. 3,3-5 he mentiones, that when the celtiberian city of Castulo was lost to the enemy, Sertorius and some others could escape through a gate, the enemy had left unguarded. They summoned other dispersed roman soldiers and entered the city through just the same unguarded gate.


    Culture: Certainly Roman, Western Hellenic, but in fact – any

    Main
    You see a spy and a group of collaborators in front of a city gate. The spy opens the gate, obviously he has organised that it has been left open, by bribing a guard.

    Success
    As the gate is open, the group enters the city and the spy closes the gate. You can see them run through the streets and vanish in the darkness.

    Failure
    As they want to enter the city, someone shouts: „Hey, who’s there!“ and they run away.

    Death
    As they want to enter the city, they’re recieved by a group of archers. Obviously the guard he had bribed has betrayed him. They get shot by a volley of arrows.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-31-2010 at 17:28.
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  22. #22
    Member Member AncientFanTR's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    If my memory serves me correctly, the spies don't have a failure-escape option. They always either succeed or die. YOu probably already no this, but just in case, you might end up doing unneccessary videos!

  23. #23
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by AncientFanTR View Post
    If my memory serves me correctly, the spies don't have a failure-escape option. They always either succeed or die. YOu probably already no this, but just in case, you might end up doing unneccessary videos!
    No, there is indeed a failure option. At least in RTW and EBI. I think I remember to have seen that in MTW II too. Remember the Assassin who wanted to poisen his victim with a snake? There were 3 scenarios in MTW II

    1. The snake bites the victim
    2. The snake bites the assassin
    3. The snake turns around and vanishes through the door - and the assassin failed but survived.
    Last edited by SwissBarbar; 03-31-2010 at 23:35.
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  24. #24
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't the target survive the assassination attempt?
    they kill the assassin before he can use his courtesan, and thus, the target survives?
    I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.

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  25. #25
    Σέλευκος Νικάτωρ Member Fluvius Camillus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    You seem to forget one point.

    Who is going to come with a huge army?

    Or will there be a difference between the videos:
    - Computer made
    - Played by real persons

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    I lived for three years not knowing what AAR is.

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  26. #26
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    they kill the assassin before he can use his courtesan, and thus, the target survives?
    You said:

    Failure (killed).
    same as success, only they kill the assassin before he can get away, and they confiscate his "slaves".
    success:

    Scene 1: they assassin is dining with the women in the presense of the target (its a drinking part, like Macedonians have). one of the women gets the attentions of the target, and he asks her over to bed.
    Scene 2: the "courtesan* pretends to seduce the target, when the courtesan sneakily pulls out a dagger she has, and quickly executes the target.
    Scene 3: since everyone is disrtacted/drunk, the assassin and his "courtesan" slip away in the dead of night.
    ie the target is already dead before the assassin attempts his getaway. I think you meant "same as Failure (escapes)"

    Nice idea by the way!
    Last edited by bobbin; 04-01-2010 at 14:23.


  27. #27
    Member Member runner3434's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    I would like to just say that the videos have to be able to have some destinction in between characters, as I distinctly remember that trying to assassinate a priest or a pope had a special video (A church burning or a shot at the pope when he is taking his service)
    thanks

    "I don't know what they will do to the enemy, but by god they frighten me." Arthur Wellesy, later the Duke of Wellington.

  28. #28
    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by runner3434 View Post
    I would like to just say that the videos have to be able to have some destinction in between characters, as I distinctly remember that trying to assassinate a priest or a pope had a special video (A church burning or a shot at the pope when he is taking his service)
    thanks
    Ohh! Ohh! I want to be the assasin in that one (the succes one anyway)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
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  29. #29
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    You said:





    ie the target is already dead before the assassin attempts his getaway. I think you meant "same as Failure (escapes)"

    Nice idea by the way!
    yeah, that's what I meant. I miswrote.

    I'll correct that.

    and thanks!
    I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.

    my 4 year old modding project--nearing completion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506 (if you wanna help, join me).

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  30. #30
    Member Member AncientFanTR's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Europa Barbarorum Film Project

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissBarbar View Post
    No, there is indeed a failure option. At least in RTW and EBI. I think I remember to have seen that in MTW II too. Remember the Assassin who wanted to poisen his victim with a snake? There were 3 scenarios in MTW II

    1. The snake bites the victim
    2. The snake bites the assassin
    3. The snake turns around and vanishes through the door - and the assassin failed but survived.
    You misunderstand me: I said spies not assassins. As you know, assassins do indeed have a fail but escape option, but if you try to infiltrate a city with your spy, he will either succeed or die!

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