Last edited by Fluvius Camillus; 05-17-2010 at 23:27. Reason: typo
Originally Posted by Equilibrius
Completed Campaigns: Epeiros (EB1.0), Romani (EB1.1), Baktria (1.2) and Arche Seleukeia
1x From Olaf the Great for my quote!
3x1x<-- From Maion Maroneios for succesful campaigns!
5x2x<-- From Aemilius Paulus for winning a contest!
1x From Mulceber!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
And Celts becoming the new Persians.
from Megas Methuselah for helping with city names from Hooahguy for my sig
Say, how does Apocalypto rank?
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
BTW: There was a link to a movie about Cullodáin (sp?), but I dont have it anymore. Do you guys know about its progress?
"A wise man once said: Never buy a game full price!"
- Another wise man
My guess on Caesar is they will depict Caesar as a man of the people, and Pompey and the Senate as dictators and Caesar starts a civil war to free the people.
I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.
my 4 year old modding project--nearing completion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506 (if you wanna help, join me).
tired of ridiculous trouble with walking animations? then you need my brand newmotion capture for the common man!
"We have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if we put the belonging to, in the I don't know what, all gas lines will explode " -alBernameg
He refers to Cú Chulainn/Cuchulainn - not Culloden ;) - and this.
Last edited by Lvcretivs; 05-19-2010 at 22:08.
'...usque adeo res humanas vis abdita quaedam:opterit et pulchros fascis saevasque secures:proculcare ac ludibrio sibi habere videtur.' De rerum natura V, 1233ff.
Last edited by G. Septimus; 05-21-2010 at 14:00.
x2
Big Romani Fan
Die ManschaaftSpoiler Alert, click show to read:
Der Rekordmeister
I can read it the Caesar book My its good a good book
This is ROMA!!!
Julius Caesar knows that the corrupt senators must be erradicated and only he has the power and will to do it, because he is the greatest general in history. It will be a hard task however, apart from the corrupt senators, Roma is sorrounded by enemies.
The Gauls at France, savage creatures that seek to enslave the free peoples of Rome, it will be necesary a brave man to lead the Roman Legion (never defeated in battle) against those demons. However there are other peoples in the far north, Germans, even the Gauls fear them, for they are incredible powerful men, natural looters with no feelings, they seek a perfect race. They redefined the word "barbarian"
I already see something like this in that "awesome" movie.
Last edited by J.R.M; 05-22-2010 at 22:41.
Ahora mas que nunca, FUERZA CABROS!! ¡Viva Chile! Thrash till Death!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
I was once alive, but then a girl came and took out my ticker.
my 4 year old modding project--nearing completion: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506 (if you wanna help, join me).
tired of ridiculous trouble with walking animations? then you need my brand newmotion capture for the common man!
"We have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if we put the belonging to, in the I don't know what, all gas lines will explode " -alBernameg
If even the inspiration for a movie can't be taken very seriously, then there's little hope for the film itself.Iggulden’s books are bestsellers, but it’s worth noting that they take substantial liberties with the historical source material.
Read more: 300 Producers Developing Caesar Trilogy | /Film http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/05/17/...#ixzz0oo7gxeIz
OK, I’m not an expert, but I have a respectable knowledge of American history, and this is just what I noticed was wrong:
*WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS ABOUND*
First, the time period. While the arrival of the Spanish at the end shows that this would be in the early 16th century in the Late Post-Classical Mayan period, almost everything else in this movie, from the architecture to the costumes to the problems the Mayans are dealing with, indicates it would take place sometime in the 8th century in the Late Classical Mayan period. The only thing consistent with the Post-Classical setting is the fact that there was human sacrifice, which became was not nearly as prevalent in the Classical period. By the 16th century the Mayans had reorganized themselves into a less centralized and urban and more militaristic and mercantilist civilization, quite different from the urban, cosmopolitan Classical period.
That ridiculous Chekov’s tapir trap. That’s just retarded. I’ve never heard of anything like that being used anywhere. At least, not for hunting.
However, the accuracy of the hunting is moot, because the Mayans were without exception agriculturalists. There would have been no hunting and gathering.
The people’s total ignorance of the city. These people live a week’s march away from a major city and they’ve no idea it exists? The Maya were an urban civilization. You couldn’t get more than 10 miles away from a population center of decent size.
The slave/sacrificial victim raid. The Mayans didn’t carry out slave/sacrificial victim raids, they took them during war.
The sacrifices. The Mayans didn’t carry out group sacrifices, and they didn’t do it by bending a dude backwards over a pillar and cutting his heart out. Both were Aztec practices. The Mayans were more into nonfatal bloodletting, and when they did sacrifice people, they were usually prisoners of war or members of the enemy nobility.
The use of slaves. The Mayans did not use nearly as many slaves as are shown in the movie. Like the ancient Egyptians, the Mayans employed free professionals to build their temples and civic structures.
The architecture. While above I said that the architecture is consistent with the Classical period, that’s a 600 year time span, during which it evolved quite a lot, and all the different styles are thrown together without regard to their respective time periods. Some of the art isn’t even from the Classical period, but from the Post-Classical period. On top of that, you also have art from different regions being thrown together. What we ended up is about as realistic as the architecture in The Emperor’s New Groove.
Finally, the Mayans’ attitude toward violence. Mayan society is portrayed as one of crazy sadists, lining up and cheering to watch people get ripped apart. NOBODY IS LIKE THAT. The only societies I can think of that relish watching people butcher each other so much are our Western ones.
If I’ve gotten anything wrong please correct me. I probably missed or forgot something.
Finally, I think this movie’s racist. I know you’ll groan and roll your eyes, and I’ve already gotten in trouble over this and I don’t want to be “that guy” who yells racism about everything, but the message that the Maya were a savage, bloodthirsty, decadent civilization that needed to be saved by Western Christians seems racist to me. Again, that’s just the message I got, and I might be reading too much into it again.
Its a movie, movies are for entertainment.
So yeah your reading too much into it.
Well this is a movie review thread and as such contains people's personal subjective opinions so I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Hollywood loves white-guy intervention flicks anyway so its not like its the first time. Its like how Last Samurai required a white guy to make things reasonable. OR Dances with Wolves used a white-guy to help the Natives. OR Star Trek is always a bunch of white guys, coming in and fixing problems.
Granted they use the white-guy as a character that is relatable to the audience but its still...
Last edited by antisocialmunky; 05-24-2010 at 13:00.
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
Depends, Historical accuracy doesn't add to your entertainment?
Well I watched Apocalypto lately and the white people are just seconds in a small boat coming to the beach. Hardly a big part of the movie. Hardly anything to call it racist. Unaccuracies doesn't equal racism...Well this is a movie review thread and as such contains people's personal subjective opinions so I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Hollywood loves white-guy intervention flicks anyway so its not like its the first time. Its like how Last Samurai required a white guy to make things reasonable. OR Dances with Wolves used a white-guy to help the Natives. OR Star Trek is always a bunch of white guys, coming in and fixing problems.
Granted they use the white-guy as a character that is relatable to the audience but its still...
At least Star Trek tried to avoid it by having a multiracial cast, even if they did have relatively minor roles.
Watch the end again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR8I1nicYWo
It's symbolic. The savage Mayans are about to kill the hero, when they are struck dumb by the arrival of the cross carrying Spanish and leave him alone. The screen even centers on the cross at the end. The message is that the savage, decadent heathens need to be saved from themselves.
Last edited by Badass Buddha; 05-24-2010 at 20:46.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
So Apocalypto took an interesting Mayan scenario (the collapse of the classic mayan civilisation), sexed it up with some Aztec-style sacrifice (although it would've been cooler if they were sacrificed to bears that shot laser beams out of their eyes), and threw in the Spanish as a nasty twist at the end (an anachronistic mismatch for the classical Mayan city shown in the first part of the film).
Not sure where the racism is, its certainly as dumbed down as most supposedly historical epics about western europeans. Gladiator has Marcus Aurelius toying with Republicanism (personified by a character called Gracchus lol), Braveheart has lowlanders in kilts and frenchmen like Edouard, De Bruce and Bailliol speaking english.
My other quibble is the one about "why was Jaguar Paw ignorant of the city?". He was certainly amazed by the city but thats how any peasant/villager/tribesman might feel coming to any city: eg an Arcadian peasant coming to Athens. Why can't J-P just be a hunter from the sticks who lives on his little patch and never left the local area? His tribe may have been on the fringe of the Mayan cultural zone, and he may not be Mayan at all. its only a minor quibble, the film sinks under the weight of its own contempt for history.
I think the arrival of the Spaniards simply foreshadows suffering for everyone, the hunters and the hunted.
There is a school of thought that says "the Spanish were less cruel than the Aztecs" and I am a believer in that. They were awful harsh conquerors but the Aztecs were an horrifically cruel regime and the majorty of mesoAmericans could not wait to throw them down and trample them. They gladly joined forces with the Spanish to do it. Hatred of the Aztes was certainly not limited to western europeans.
From Hax, Nachtmeister & Subotan
Jatte lambasts Calico Rat
Lucky for the Aztecs they didn't control as much land as the Inca did. The Aztecs controlled by force, but could do so for such a long time because of such little area they had to do it in. Of course, the area was more densely populated than those that were under Cuzco control. But the Aztecs were constantly at war. Its end was inevitable. As for Apocalypto...meh.
EB Online Founder | Website
Former Projects:
- Vartan's EB Submod Compilation Pack
- Asia ton Barbaron (Armenian linguistics)
- EB:NOM (Armenian linguistics/history)
- Dominion of the Sword (Armenian linguistics/history, videographer)
I would not call it racism if the camera had not focused directly on the cross in the last shot. That, coupled with Mel Gibson's beliefs, suggest to me the "saving them from themselves" interpretation.
Was Seven Samurai accurate? I have the most passing smidgen of Japanese history and it seems a plausible taste of the fate of peasants and ronin in pre-Tokugawa Japan.
Fair enough, if you see it you see it. I didn't, but I don't associate the cross borne by the conquistadores with saving people. I guess an extremist like Gibson might intend that, he's kooky enough, so I certainly recognise your position has merit.
I see the way J-P runs as his survival instinct, whereas the warriors seem to move toward the oncoming threat. Both the hunter and the hunted have come up against something deadlier than themselves: we know it but they don't, yet.
From Hax, Nachtmeister & Subotan
Jatte lambasts Calico Rat
Bookmarks