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Thread: The Big New Yorker- [TBNY] concept thread

  1. #61
    The great Shai-Hulud Member God Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Imo, Depth just makes things more interesting, even though it may be a little flawed as it is experimental. I think it is normal that players tend to enjoy games the more, if they have some special role (like being mafia) . Adding Depth everyone has a larger role to play, as they can influence the game in more ways.
    In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces.

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  2. #62
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Do what feels comfortable pizza, and what you think would make others feel comfortable. IMHO, if there are to many variables, neither the host nor the player can keep up. Find the focus to the game, and concentrate on it. If this means the corporations and what they bring to the table are the focus, then remove the peripheral mechanics because all they are going to do is distract.

    Maybe it would be best if the mafioso only wished to become the leaders of corporations, and the town must fight against such corruption. This would pit the Corporations against each other, while also pitting them against the mafioso. Townies could be "Employees" with a distinction of "Regular Joe" for the corruptible, and "Idealist/Purist/Loyal" for the incorruptible, with possibly different game outcomes based upon which section of the incorruptible townies are in the majority at the end.

    To prevent Corps from being quickly singled out as mafia controlled, one could set it up so that the game obviously ends when all the mafia are eliminated, but the actual victor is the corporation which has the largest amount of networth, and only those who are part of that corporation actually receive the townie win. Put a cap on corporation size to prevent late game hopping to one corporation (and maybe create rivalries to the point you'd kill to get into the winning corporation) or make it so it is a bad idea (mafia autowin if they are in control of said corporation even if the townies outnumber them?)

    One thing I am against is the items though - I don't see the need really, they don't seem to be a key component and add to complexity. I am also against strength - it discourages players and feels like an exclusionary mechanic instead of an inclusive one. You want to engage your players, not discourage them - it'd be better if they gained something for trying, no matter what, so they get points for playing. Let the actual leveling system reward players who are successful or take the correct risks.
    Last edited by ULC; 10-16-2010 at 16:48.

  3. #63
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I may take your advice regarding strength.

    Maybe the items too. Could be an idea for a sequel if the rest of the mechanics work.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Senior Member Jarema's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I'm new in mafia games, but I feel that , like YLC said, there should be no strength in the game (at least not in the way it is for now). I also agree (but to the lesser extend) with having no items.
    But I like the rest of your design more than I like the rest of YLC proposition

  5. #65
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I'd like to revive this concept, do a bit of a redesign on it to make it a little less complicated, and to adjust some of the numbers to make advancement easier, that way people won't have to wait until the very endgame to have a powerful role.

    Will need some time to go over the mechanics and do a redesign, but if you liked Capo IV and want to do something similar in the future, post here.
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  6. #66
    Guest Member Populus Romanus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    In ftw.

    Even if I can't kill you personally, Pizza, I will kill everyone you ever knew or loved in Capo.

  7. #67
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Populus Romanus View Post
    In ftw.

    Even if I can't kill you personally, Pizza, I will kill everyone you ever knew or loved in Capo.
    Tell them how you're going to kill them.

    Kill them.

    Then tell them how you just killed them.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  8. #68

    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I remember this. One of the first things I saw back when I joined.
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  9. #69
    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Senior Member Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I would be interested in taking part.
    Moderator of The Throne Room
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  10. #70
    Senior Member Senior Member Jarema's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Be in

  11. #71
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Still very interested.

  12. #72
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    All right.

    Now, my question to you fine folks is.... do you think you'd be able to handle the dual game?

    There's the Capo-like roles of doctor and vigilante and so forth, but there's also the Day roles of being a member of a corporation and trying to work your way up the corporate ladder, and possibly even trying for a Corporate victory, which is total domination of the game by a single corporation.

    It's a lot to juggle and Capo was a lot for some people.

    You also have to figure, people do have real lives and sometimes go inactive, team games involving complicated strategies where teammates don't show up, can have problems.


    Do you want to try for the game to be hosted mostly as-is, or should I gut the whole money/corporation system altogether?


    As game host, I can handle it behind the scenes, as a player, you can elect to ignore it unless you're a mafioso and need money to pay your fellow gangsters. But are you even interested in the game as it is, or would you prefer it with no money system?
    #Winstontoostrong
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  13. #73
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Personally I like it, but looking at the vote you had a while ago this was the least popular of your options and it was most likely the complexity of the dual roles that put people off. For me, the only thing I would change is the number of corporations, ten seems an awful lot to start with, particularly when the players can form new ones.

  14. #74
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Well that number would be based on if we had 100 players or so.

    If we have less and I expect we will have less, then you'd have fewer corporations. One for every 10 players, probably.

    This gives you a starting "base" team of a whole lot of people and a reasonable excuse to contact people you're not necessarily too familiar with.


    "Hey! We both work for the same corporation, want to work together on other things/share strategies on how to make our corporation win/I think our CEO is a serial killer" and so on.

    I'd welcome suggestions on tweaking it.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  15. #75
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I was just thinking that fewer corporation = fewer chances for promotion and a large bunch of interns desperate to get on the payroll. What would they do to get that first foot on the ladder? It would tie the day and night games more closely together. "Hmm, should I kill this guy to help my mafia family, or this guy to improve my chances of promotion at the brewery?"

  16. #76
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by johnhughthom View Post
    I was just thinking that fewer corporation = fewer chances for promotion and a large bunch of interns desperate to get on the payroll. What would they do to get that first foot on the ladder? It would tie the day and night games more closely together. "Hmm, should I kill this guy to help my mafia family, or this guy to improve my chances of promotion at the brewery?"
    I actually thought the pay rate differences were enough in that regard. Unless you're a top executive, you're losing the money race by a wide margin.

    As such, even a paid low-rate worker isn't earning a lot of cash, and they're behind. What if a smaller corporation has space for an executive? They'll switch corporations in a heartbeat.

    Why be loyal to X-company when Y-company is offering you a job that pays twice as much? As such, it's harder for a Corporation to maintain employees unless the executives offer "bonuses" under the table and bribe their lower paid workers.

    Company loyalty is crucial to a corporate victory. Loyalty can be expensive to buy.

    These are just some of the dynamics I imagined. You also have to figure, corporations will be subject to crime, and they can lose funds that way. And employees might be able to steal from their own company easier than they can steal from another...

    How about corporate spying? work for another company while secretly reporting to another.... for a price...

    Come on now, with a money system, there will be enough intrigue behind the scenes that some might not even care that there's a mafia family out there. The mafia game might not be as interesting or pressing as a hostile takeover or massive corruption scheme.


    Oh, I want to introduce scummy game mechanics which allow for personal glory, cloak and dagger betrayal, and epic victories that don't necessarily involve murder. So juicy.



    Oh please let me host it with the money system intact. It will be like YLC's Blood Money and Power game which I helped him design, except I'll actually host my game!
    #Winstontoostrong
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  17. #77
    Peerless Senior Member johnhughthom's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    It will be like YLC's Blood Money and Power game which I helped him design, except I'll actually host my game!

    Will you stop mentioning that! It was a crime it died so early.

    Fair enough on your other points, as always you have a much better idea of the big picture than me.

  18. #78
    Senior Member Senior Member Jarema's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    I will try to handle it, I promise. It sounds good!

  19. #79
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    So you are lunching this game after all, Pizza?
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
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  20. #80
    The .org's resident pirate Member landlubber's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Reserving a spot.

  21. #81

    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    In if it starts. Looks really interesting

  22. #82
    Member Member classical_hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    This is interesting, but we should wait for the new Year to start this and wait for some of the Capo fatigue to go away.

  23. #83
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Oh yeah, this isn't starting until spring or whatever.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  24. #84
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Erm, classical and me live in the Southern Hemisphere, so it's spring here right now.
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
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  25. #85
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    OMG, this game just got a rather excellent character added to it.

    It made me squee. There's going to be a special role in this game which might just capture your attention, and no, he's not a shyster.

    This could very well be my favorite special role I've created to date, and that includes Renata's Mace Windu in ATPG Mafia II with the item collection mission.
    #Winstontoostrong
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  26. #86

    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Is it Ben Reich?
    Vitiate Man.

    History repeats the old conceits
    The glib replies, the same defeats


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  27. #87
    syö minun šortsini Member Space Invaders Champion, Metal Slug Champion, Bubble Trouble Champion, Curveball Champion, Moon Patrol Champion, Zelda Champion, Minigolf Champion El Barto's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Please don't tell me you're putting Frau Blücher into the game…
    good lord| if you're telling the truth you're setting new records for scumminess as a townie -Renata on IM, 16/09/2011
    Feles deliberatissimae subiugare humanitiati sunt, et res solae quae eas desinunt canes sunt.
    I see I've been sigged yet again -Askthepizzaguy, 02/08/2012
    Hindsight is 20/20 Askthepizzaguy, 10/07/2013

  28. #88
    Member Member classical_hero's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Erm, classical and me live in the Southern Hemisphere, so it's spring here right now.
    Actually it is summer here in Australia, since we start the seasons at the start of the month.

  29. #89
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread

    Quote Originally Posted by El Barto View Post
    Please don't tell me you're putting Frau Blücher into the game…

    Who or what is a Fraublucher?
    #Winstontoostrong
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  30. #90
    Senior Member Senior Member Jarema's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Big New Yorker- (TBNY) concept thread


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