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Thread: Global Climate Disruption.

  1. #61
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    I do.

    I'll make it clear. You provide evidence of what you say and if I'm proven wrong, I'll shave me head and paint it blue!

    Will that do?
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 04-13-2011 at 22:38.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  2. #62
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I do.

    I'll make it clear. You provide evidence of what you say and if I'm proven wrong, I'll shave me head and paint it blue!

    Will that do?
    I was hoping for something involving transferring daughters, but meh... I guess it'll do.

    Only problem is that I've never really been that interested in climate change... I've always been more into pollution, so I won't be much help I'm afraid
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  3. #63
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Interesting....



    http://opinion.financialpost.com/201...odels-go-cold/

    I wonder if this little snippet of information will change anyone's mind?
    Change my mind? Nah.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  4. #64

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    What can us humans do to an entire layer of ozone in the atmosphere that has always been there?

    Humanity is adolescent god, in charge of a small domain as a test of its maturity.


  5. #65
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    What can us humans do to an entire layer of ozone in the atmosphere that has always been there?

    Humanity is adolescent god, in charge of a small domain as a test of its maturity.
    There are no gods. The ozone layer has not always been there. It is the product of earthly life. Earth is a living planet. From algae to man, we shape this world, create a world of our own making.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  6. #66

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    There are no gods. The ozone layer has not always been there. It is the product of earthly life. Earth is a living planet. From algae to man, we shape this world, create a world of our own making.
    Whoosh.


  7. #67
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    If I was feeling cruel, I could surely produce an example of one denier who had changed his mind and realised the validity of the science on climate change with a quick Google search. As I am so good-natured, I'll be content to just concur with HoreTore's post and say that one dude changing his mind != not a change in the scientific consensus.
    There is no scientific consensus

  8. #68

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    There is no scientific consensus
    Read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scienti...climate_change

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Statements by concurring organizations

    [edit] Academies of Science

    [edit] Joint science academies' statements

    Since 2001, 32 national science academies have come together to issue joint declarations confirming anthropogenic global warming, and urging the nations of the world to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases. The signatories of these statements have been the national science academies:



    • 2001-Following the publication of the IPCC Third Assessment Report, seventeen national science academies issued a joint statement, entitled "The Science of Climate Change", explicitly acknowledging the IPCC position as representing the scientific consensus on climate change science. The statement, printed in an editorial in the journal Science on May 18, 2001,[12] was signed by the science academies of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, the Caribbean, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, Malaysia, New Zealand, Sweden, Turkey, and the United Kingdom.[13]


    • 2005-The national science academies of the G8 nations, plus Brazil, China and India, three of the largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the developing world, signed a statement on the global response to climate change. The statement stresses that the scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action,[14] and explicitly endorsed the IPCC consensus. The eleven signatories were the science academies of Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.


    • 2007-In preparation for the 33rd G8 summit, the national science academies of the G8+5 nations issued a declaration referencing the position of the 2005 joint science academies' statement, and acknowledging the confirmation of their previous conclusion by recent research. Following the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report, the declaration states, "It is unequivocal that the climate is changing, and it is very likely that this is predominantly caused by the increasing human interference with the atmosphere. These changes will transform the environmental conditions on Earth unless counter-measures are taken."[15] The thirteen signatories were the national science academies of Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, Italy, India, Japan, Mexico, Russia, South Africa, the United Kingdom, and the United States.


    • 2008-In preparation for the 34th G8 summit, the national science academies of the G8+5 nations issued a declaration reiterating the position of the 2005 joint science academies’ statement, and reaffirming “that climate change is happening and that anthropogenic warming is influencing many physical and biological systems.” Among other actions, the declaration urges all nations to “(t)ake appropriate economic and policy measures to accelerate transition to a low carbon society and to encourage and effect changes in individual and national behaviour.”[16] The thirteen signatories were the same national science academies that issued the 2007 joint statement.


    • 2009-In advance of the UNFCCC negotiations to be held in Copenhagen in December 2009, the national science academies of the G8+5 nations issued a joint statement declaring, "Climate change and sustainable energy supply are crucial challenges for the future of humanity. It is essential that world leaders agree on the emission reductions needed to combat negative consequences of anthropogenic climate change". The statement references the IPCC's Fourth Assessment of 2007, and asserts that "climate change is happening even faster than previously estimated; global CO2 emissions since 2000 have been higher than even the highest predictions, Arctic sea ice has been melting at rates much faster than predicted, and the rise in the sea level has become more rapid."[17] The thirteen signatories were the same national science academies that issued the 2007 and 2008 joint statements.

    [edit] InterAcademy Council

    As the representative of the world’s scientific and engineering academies,[18][19] the InterAcademy Council (IAC) issued a report in 2007 titled Lighting the Way: Toward a Sustainable Energy Future.
    Current patterns of energy resources and energy usage are proving detrimental to the long-term welfare of humanity. The integrity of essential natural systems is already at risk from climate change caused by the atmospheric emissions of greenhouse gases.[20] Concerted efforts should be mounted for improving energy efficiency and reducing the carbon intensity of the world economy.[21]
    [edit] European Academy of Sciences and Arts

    In 2007, the European Academy of Sciences and Arts issued a formal declaration on climate change titled Let's Be Honest:
    Human activity is most likely responsible for climate warming. Most of the climatic warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been caused by increased concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Documented long-term climate changes include changes in Arctic temperatures and ice, widespread changes in precipitation amounts, ocean salinity, wind patterns and extreme weather including droughts, heavy precipitation, heat waves and the intensity of tropical cyclones. The above development potentially has dramatic consequences for mankind’s future.[22]
    [edit] International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences

    In 2007, the International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences (CAETS) issued a Statement on Environment and Sustainable Growth:[23]
    As reported by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), most of the observed global warming since the mid-20th century is very likely due to human-produced emission of greenhouse gases and this warming will continue unabated if present anthropogenic emissions continue or, worse, expand without control. CAETS, therefore, endorses the many recent calls to decrease and control greenhouse gas emissions to an acceptable level as quickly as possible.
    [edit] Network of African Science Academies

    In 2007, the Network of African Science Academies submitted a joint “statement on sustainability, energy efficiency, and climate change” to the leaders meeting at the G8 Summit in Heiligendamm, Germany:
    A consensus, based on current evidence, now exists within the global scientific community that human activities are the main source of climate change and that the burning of fossil fuels is largely responsible for driving this change. The IPCC should be congratulated for the contribution it has made to public understanding of the nexus that exists between energy, climate and sustainability.[24]
    The thirteen signatories were the science academies of Cameroon, Ghana, Kenya, Madagascar, Nigeria, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe, as well as the African Academy of Sciences.
    [edit] Royal Society of New Zealand

    Having signed onto the first joint science academies' statement in 2001, the Royal Society of New Zealand released a separate statement in 2008 in order to clear up "the controversy over climate change and its causes, and possible confusion among the public":
    The globe is warming because of increasing greenhouse gas emissions. Measurements show that greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere are well above levels seen for many thousands of years. Further global climate changes are predicted, with impacts expected to become more costly as time progresses. Reducing future impacts of climate change will require substantial reductions of greenhouse gas emissions.[25]
    [edit] Royal Society of the United Kingdom

    The Royal Society of the United Kingdom has not changed its concurring stance. According to the Telegraph, "The most prestigious group of scientists in the country was forced to act after forty-three fellows complained that 'uncertainty in the debate' over man made global warming were not being communicated to the public."[26] In May 2010, it announced that it "is presently drafting a new public facing document on climate change, to provide an updated status report on the science in an easily accessible form, also addressing the levels of certainty of key components."[27] The society says that it is three years since the last such document was published and that, after an extensive process of debate and review,[28][29] the new document was printed in September 2010. It summarises the current scientific evidence and highlights the areas where the science is well established, where there is still some debate, and where substantial uncertainties remain. The society has stated that "this is not the same as saying that the climate science itself is in error – no Fellows have expressed such a view to the RS".[27]
    [edit] Polish Academy of Sciences

    In December 2007, the General Assembly of the Polish Academy of Sciences (PAN) issued a statement endorsing the IPCC conclusions, and states:
    it is the duty of Polish science and the national government to, in a thoughtful, organized and active manner, become involved in realisation of these ideas. Problems of global warming, climate change, and their various negative impacts on human life and on the functioning of entire societies are one of the most dramatic challenges of modern times.
    PAS General Assembly calls on the national scientific communities and the national government to actively support Polish participation in this important endeavor.[30]
    [edit] National Research Council (US)

    In 2001, the Committee on the Science of Climate Change of the National Research Council published Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions.[31] This report explicitly endorses the IPCC view of attribution of recent climate change as representing the view of the scientific community:
    The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century... The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue.[31]
    [edit] General science

    [edit] American Association for the Advancement of Science

    As the world's largest general scientific society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science adopted an official statement on climate change in 2006:
    The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society....The pace of change and the evidence of harm have increased markedly over the last five years. The time to control greenhouse gas emissions is now.[32]
    [edit] American Chemical Society

    The American Chemical Society stated:
    Careful and comprehensive scientific assessments have clearly demonstrated that the Earth’s climate system is changing rapidly in response to growing atmospheric burdens of greenhouse gases and absorbing aerosol particles (IPCC, 2007). There is very little room for doubt that observed climate trends are due to human activities. The threats are serious and action is urgently needed to mitigate the risks of climate change. The reality of global warming, its current serious and potentially disastrous impacts on Earth system properties, and the key role emissions from human activities play in driving these phenomena have been recognized by earlier versions of this ACS policy statement (ACS, 2004), by other major scientific societies, including the American Geophysical Union (AGU, 2003), the American Meteorological Society (AMS, 2007) and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS, 2007), and by the U. S. National Academies and ten other leading national academies of science (NA, 2005).[33]
    [edit] American Institute of Physics

    The Governing Board of the American Institute of Physics endorsed the AGU statement on human-induced climate change:[34]
    The Governing Board of the American Institute of Physics has endorsed a position statement on climate change adopted by the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Council in December 2003.
    [edit] American Physical Society

    In November 2007, the American Physical Society (APS) adopted an official statement on climate change:
    Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes. The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.
    Because the complexity of the climate makes accurate prediction difficult, the APS urges an enhanced effort to understand the effects of human activity on the Earth’s climate, and to provide the technological options for meeting the climate challenge in the near and longer terms. The APS also urges governments, universities, national laboratories and its membership to support policies and actions that will reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.[35]
    [edit] Australian Institute of Physics

    In 2005, the Australian Institute of Physics (AIP)[36] issued a science policy document in which they stated:
    Policy: The AIP supports a reduction of the green house gas emissions that are leading to increased global temperatures, and encourages research that works towards this goal. Reason: Research in Australia and overseas shows that an increase in global temperature will adversely affect the Earth’s climate patterns. The melting of the polar ice caps, combined with thermal expansion, will lead to rises in sea levels that may impact adversely on our coastal cities. The impact of these changes on biodiversity will fundamentally change the ecology of Earth.[37]
    [edit] European Physical Society

    In 2007, the European Physical Society issued a position paper regarding energy:
    The emission of anthropogenic greenhouse gases, among which carbon dioxide is the main contributor, has amplified the natural greenhouse effect and led to global warming. The main contribution stems from burning fossil fuels. A further increase will have decisive effects on life on earth. An energy cycle with the lowest possible CO2 emission is called for wherever possible to combat climate change.[38]
    [edit] European Science Foundation

    In 2007, the European Science Foundation issued a Position Paper on climate change:
    There is now convincing evidence that since the industrial revolution, human activities, resulting in increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases have become a major agent of climate change. These greenhouse gases affect the global climate by retaining heat in the troposphere, thus raising the average temperature of the planet and altering global atmospheric circulation and precipitation patterns. While on-going national and international actions to curtail and reduce greenhouse gas emissions are essential, the levels of greenhouse gases currently in the atmosphere, and their impact, are likely to persist for several decades. On-going and increased efforts to mitigate climate change through reduction in greenhouse gases are therefore crucial.[39]
    [edit] Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies

    In 2008, the Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies (FASTS) issued a policy statement on climate change:
    Global climate change is real and measurable. Since the start of the 20th century, the global mean surface temperature of the Earth has increased by more than 0.7°C and the rate of warming has been largest in the last 30 years. Key vulnerabilities arising from climate change include water resources, food supply, health, coastal settlements, biodiversity and some key ecosystems such as coral reefs and alpine regions. As the atmospheric concentration of greenhouse gases increases, impacts become more severe and widespread. To reduce the global net economic, environmental and social losses in the face of these impacts, the policy objective must remain squarely focused on returning greenhouse gas concentrations to near pre-industrial levels through the reduction of emissions.
    The spatial and temporal fingerprint of warming can be traced to increasing greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere, which are a direct result of burning fossil fuels, broad-scale deforestation and other human activity.[40]
    [edit] Earth sciences

    [edit] American Geophysical Union

    The American Geophysical Union (AGU) statement,[41] adopted by the society in 2003 and revised in 2007, affirms that rising levels of greenhouse gases have caused and will continue to cause the global surface temperature to be warmer:
    The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers, the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the 20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century. Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of the climate.
    [edit] European Federation of Geologists

    In 2008, the European Federation of Geologists[42](EFG) issued the position paper Carbon Capture and geological Storage :
    The EFG recognizes the work of the IPCC and other organizations, and subscribes to the major findings that climate change is happening, is predominantly caused by anthropogenic emissions of CO2, and poses a significant threat to human civilization. It is clear that major efforts are necessary to quickly and strongly reduce CO2 emissions. The EFG strongly advocates renewable and sustainable energy production, including geothermal energy, as well as the need for increasing energy efficiency.
    CCS [Carbon Capture and geological Storage] should also be regarded as a bridging technology, facilitating the move towards a carbon free economy.[43]
    [edit] European Geosciences Union

    In 2005, the Divisions of Atmospheric and Climate Sciences of the European Geosciences Union (EGU) issued a position statement in support of the joint science academies’ statement on global response to climate change. The statement refers to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), as "the main representative of the global scientific community", and asserts that the IPCC
    represents the state-of-the-art of climate science supported by the major science academies around the world and by the vast majority of science researchers and investigators as documented by the peer-reviewed scientific literature.[44]
    Additionally, in 2008, the EGU issued a position statement on ocean acidification which states, "Ocean acidification is already occurring today and will continue to intensify, closely tracking atmospheric CO2 increase. Given the potential threat to marine ecosystems and its ensuing impact on human society and economy, especially as it acts in conjunction with anthropogenic global warming, there is an urgent need for immediate action." The statement then advocates for strategies "to limit future release of CO2 to the atmosphere and/or enhance removal of excess CO2 from the atmosphere."[45]
    [edit] Geological Society of America

    In 2006, the Geological Society of America adopted a position statement on global climate change. It amended this position on April 20, 2010 with more explicit comments on need for CO2 reduction.
    Decades of scientific research have shown that climate can change from both natural and anthropogenic causes. The Geological Society of America (GSA) concurs with assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2006), and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2007) that global climate has warmed and that human activities (mainly greenhouse‐gas emissions) account for most of the warming since the middle 1900s. If current trends continue, the projected increase in global temperature by the end of the twentyfirst century will result in large impacts on humans and other species. Addressing the challenges posed by climate change will require a combination of adaptation to the changes that are likely to occur and global reductions of CO2 emissions from anthropogenic sources.[46]
    [edit] Geological Society of Australia

    In July 2009, the Geological Society of Australia issued the position statement Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Climate Change:
    Human activities have increasing impact on Earth’s environments. Of particular concern are the well-documented loading of carbon dioxide (CO2) to the atmosphere, which has been linked unequivocally to burning of fossil fuels, and the corresponding increase in average global temperature. Risks associated with these large-scale perturbations of the Earth’s fundamental life-support systems include rising sea level, harmful shifts in the acid balance of the oceans and long-term changes in local and regional climate and extreme weather events. GSA therefore recommends…strong action be taken at all levels, including government, industry, and individuals to substantially reduce the current levels of greenhouse gas emissions and mitigate the likely social and environmental effects of increasing atmospheric CO2.[47]
    [edit] Geological Society of London

    In November 2010, the Geological Society of London issued the position statement Climate change: evidence from the geological record:
    The last century has seen a rapidly growing global population and much more intensive use of resources, leading to greatly increased emissions of gases, such as carbon dioxide and methane, from the burning of fossil fuels (oil, gas and coal), and from agriculture, cement production and deforestation. Evidence from the geological record is consistent with the physics that shows that adding large amounts of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere warms the world and may lead to: higher sea levels and flooding of low-lying coasts; greatly changed patterns of rainfall; increased acidity of the oceans; and decreased oxygen levels in seawater. There is now widespread concern that the Earth’s climate will warm further, not only because of the lingering effects of the added carbon already in the system, but also because of further additions as human population continues to grow. Life on Earth has survived large climate changes in the past, but extinctions and major redistribution of species have been associated with many of them. When the human population was small and nomadic, a rise in sea level of a few metres would have had very little effect on Homo sapiens. With the current and growing global population, much of which is concentrated in coastal cities, such a rise in sea level would have a drastic effect on our complex society, especially if the climate were to change as suddenly as it has at times in the past. Equally, it seems likely that as warming continues some areas may experience less precipitation leading to drought. With both rising seas and increasing drought, pressure for human migration could result on a large scale.[48]
    [edit] International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics

    In July 2007, the International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG) adopted a resolution titled “The Urgency of Addressing Climate Change”. In it, the IUGG concurs with the “comprehensive and widely accepted and endorsed scientific assessments carried out by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and regional and national bodies, which have firmly established, on the basis of scientific evidence, that human activities are the primary cause of recent climate change.” They state further that the “continuing reliance on combustion of fossil fuels as the world’s primary source of energy will lead to much higher atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gasses, which will, in turn, cause significant increases in surface temperature, sea level, ocean acidification, and their related consequences to the environment and society.”[49]
    [edit] National Association of Geoscience Teachers

    In July 2009, the National Association of Geoscience Teachers[50] (NAGT) adopted a position statement on climate change in which they assert that "Earth's climate is changing [and] "that present warming trends are largely the result of human activities":
    NAGT strongly supports and will work to promote education in the science of climate change, the causes and effects of current global warming, and the immediate need for policies and actions that reduce the emission of greenhouse gases.[51]
    [edit] Meteorology and oceanography

    [edit] American Meteorological Society

    The American Meteorological Society (AMS) statement adopted by their council in 2003 said:
    There is now clear evidence that the mean annual temperature at the Earth's surface, averaged over the entire globe, has been increasing in the past 200 years. There is also clear evidence that the abundance of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has increased over the same period. In the past decade, significant progress has been made toward a better understanding of the climate system and toward improved projections of long-term climate change... Human activities have become a major source of environmental change. Of great urgency are the climate consequences of the increasing atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases... Because greenhouse gases continue to increase, we are, in effect, conducting a global climate experiment, neither planned nor controlled, the results of which may present unprecedented challenges to our wisdom and foresight as well as have significant impacts on our natural and societal systems.[52]
    [edit] Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society

    The Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society has issued a Statement on Climate Change, wherein they conclude:
    Global climate change and global warming are real and observable ... It is highly likely that those human activities that have increased the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere have been largely responsible for the observed warming since 1950. The warming associated with increases in greenhouse gases originating from human activity is called the enhanced greenhouse effect. The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide has increased by more than 30% since the start of the industrial age and is higher now than at any time in at least the past 650,000 years. This increase is a direct result of burning fossil fuels, broad-scale deforestation and other human activity.”[53]
    [edit] Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences

    In November 2005, the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences (CFCAS) issued a letter to the Prime Minister of Canada stating that
    We concur with the climate science assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2001 ... We endorse the conclusions of the IPCC assessment that 'There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities'. ... There is increasingly unambiguous evidence of changing climate in Canada and around the world. There will be increasing impacts of climate change on Canada’s natural ecosystems and on our socio-economic activities. Advances in climate science since the 2001 IPCC Assessment have provided more evidence supporting the need for action and development of a strategy for adaptation to projected changes.[54]
    [edit] Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society

    The Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society 2002 Position Statement on Climate Change states that the society:
    endorses the process of periodic climate science assessment carried out by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and supports the conclusion, in its Third Assessment Report, which states that the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate.[55]
    [edit] Royal Meteorological Society (UK)

    In February 2007, after the release of the IPCC’s Fourth Assessment Report, the Royal Meteorological Society issued an endorsement of the report. In addition to referring to the IPCC as “world’s best climate scientists”, they stated that climate change is happening as “the result of emissions since industrialization and we have already set in motion the next 50 years of global warming – what we do from now on will determine how worse it will get.”[56]
    [edit] World Meteorological Organization

    In its Statement at the Twelfth Session of the Conference of the Parties to the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change presented on November 15, 2006, the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) confirms the need to “prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system.” The WMO concurs that “scientific assessments have increasingly reaffirmed that human activities are indeed changing the composition of the atmosphere, in particular through the burning of fossil fuels for energy production and transportation.” The WMO concurs that “the present atmospheric concentration of CO2 was never exceeded over the past 420,000 years;” and that the IPCC “assessments provide the most authoritative, up-to-date scientific advice.” [57]
    [edit] Paleoclimatology

    [edit] American Quaternary Association

    The American Quaternary Association (AMQUA) has stated
    Few credible Scientists now doubt that humans have influenced the documented rise of global temperatures since the Industrial Revolution,” citing “the growing body of evidence that warming of the atmosphere, especially over the past 50 years, is directly impacted by human activity.[58]
    [edit] International Union for Quaternary Research

    The statement on climate change issued by the International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA) reiterates the conclusions of the IPCC, and urges all nations to take prompt action in line with the UNFCCC principles.
    Human activities are now causing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gasses - including carbon dioxide, methane, tropospheric ozone, and nitrous oxide - to rise well above pre-industrial levels….Increases in greenhouse gasses are causing temperatures to rise…The scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action….Minimizing the amount of this carbon dioxide reaching the atmosphere presents a huge challenge but must be a global priority.[59]
    [edit] Biology and life sciences

    [edit] American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians

    The American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians[60] (AAWV) has issued a position statement regarding "climate change, wildlife diseases, and wildlife health":
    There is widespread scientific agreement that the world’s climate is changing and that the weight of evidence demonstrates that anthropogenic factors have and will continue to contribute significantly to global warming and climate change. It is anticipated that continuing changes to the climate will have serious negative impacts on public, animal and ecosystem health due to extreme weather events, changing disease transmission dynamics, emerging and re-emerging diseases, and alterations to habitat and ecological systems that are essential to wildlife conservation. Furthermore, there is increasing recognition of the inter-relationships of human, domestic animal, wildlife, and ecosystem health as illustrated by the fact the majority of recent emerging diseases have a wildlife origin.[61]
    [edit] American Institute of Biological Sciences

    In October 2009, the leaders of 18 US scientific societies and organizations sent an open letter to the United States Senate reaffirming the scientific consensus that climate change is occurring and is primarily caused by human activities. The American Institute of Biological Sciences (AIBS) adopted this letter as their official position statement:[62]
    Observations throughout the world make it clear that climate change is occurring, and rigorous scientific research demonstrates that the greenhouse gases emitted by human activities are the primary driver.[63]
    The letter goes on to warn of predicted impacts on the United States such as sea level rise and increases in extreme weather events, water scarcity, heat waves, wildfires, and the disturbance of biological systems. It then advocates for a dramatic reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases.[64]
    [edit] American Society for Microbiology

    In 2003, the American Society for Microbiology issued a public policy report in which they recommend “reducing net anthropogenic CO2 emissions to the atmosphere” and “minimizing anthropogenic disturbances of” atmospheric gases:[65]
    Carbon dioxide concentrations were relatively stable for the past 10,000 years but then began to increase rapidly about 150 years ago…as a result of fossil fuel consumption and land use change.[66] Of course, changes in atmospheric composition are but one component of global change, which also includes disturbances in the physical and chemical conditions of the oceans and land surface. Although global change has been a natural process throughout Earth’s history, humans are responsible for substantially accelerating present-day changes. These changes may adversely affect human health and the biosphere on which we depend.[67]
    Outbreaks of a number of diseases, including Lyme disease, hantavirus infections, dengue fever, bubonic plague, and cholera, have been linked to climate change.[68]
    [edit] Australian Coral Reef Society

    In 2006, the Australian Coral Reef Society

    issued an official communique regarding the Great Barrier Reef and the "world-wide decline in coral reefs through processes such as overfishing, runoff of nutrients from the land, coral bleaching, global climate change, ocean acidification, pollution", etc.:
    There is almost total consensus among experts that the earth’s climate is changing as a result of the build-up of greenhouse gases. The IPCC (involving over 3,000 of the world’s experts) has come out with clear conclusions as to the reality of this phenomenon. One does not have to look further than the collective academy of scientists worldwide to see the string (of) statements on this worrying change to the earth’s atmosphere. There is broad scientific consensus that coral reefs are heavily affected by the activities of man and there are significant global influences that can make reefs more vulnerable such as global warming....It is highly likely that coral bleaching has been exacerbated by global warming.[69]
    [edit] Institute of Biology (UK)

    The UK's Institute of Biology states “there is scientific agreement that the rapid global warming that has occurred in recent years is mostly anthropogenic, ie due to human activity.” As a consequence of global warming, they warn that a “rise in sea levels due to melting of ice caps is expected to occur. Rises in temperature will have complex and frequently localised effects on weather, but an overall increase in extreme weather conditions and changes in precipitation patterns are probable, resulting in flooding and drought. The spread of tropical diseases is also expected.” Subsequently, the Institute of Biology advocates policies to reduce “greenhouse gas emissions, as we feel that the consequences of climate change are likely to be severe.”[70]
    [edit] Society of American Foresters

    In 2008, the Society of American Foresters (SAF) issued two position statements pertaining to climate change in which they cite the IPCC and the UNFCCC:
    Forests are shaped by climate....Changes in temperature and precipitation regimes therefore have the potential to dramatically affect forests nationwide. There is growing evidence that our climate is changing. The changes in temperature have been associated with increasing concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) and other GHGs in the atmosphere.[71] Forests play a significant role in offsetting CO2 emissions, the primary anthropogenic GHG.[72]
    [edit] The Wildlife Society (international)

    The Wildlife Society has issued a position statement titled Global Climate Change and Wildlife:[73]
    Scientists throughout the world have concluded that climate research conducted in the past two decades definitively shows that rapid worldwide climate change occurred in the 20th century, and will likely continue to occur for decades to come. Although climates have varied dramatically since the earth was formed, few scientists question the role of humans in exacerbating recent climate change through the emission of greenhouse gases. The critical issue is no longer “if” climate change is occurring, but rather how to address its effects on wildlife and wildlife habitats.
    The statement goes on to assert that “evidence is accumulating that wildlife and wildlife habitats have been and will continue to be significantly affected by ongoing large-scale rapid climate change.”
    The statement concludes with a call for “reduction in anthropogenic (human-caused) sources of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions contributing to global climate change and the conservation of CO2- consuming photosynthesizers (i.e., plants).”
    [edit] Human health

    [edit] American Academy of Pediatrics

    In 2007, the American Academy of Pediatrics issued the policy statement Global Climate Change and Children's Health:
    There is broad scientific consensus that Earth's climate is warming rapidly and at an accelerating rate. Human activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels, are very likely (>90% probability) to be the main cause of this warming. Climate-sensitive changes in ecosystems are already being observed, and fundamental, potentially irreversible, ecological changes may occur in the coming decades. Conservative environmental estimates of the impact of climate changes that are already in process indicate that they will result in numerous health effects to children. Anticipated direct health consequences of climate change include injury and death from extreme weather events and natural disasters, increases in climate-sensitive infectious diseases, increases in air pollution–related illness, and more heat-related, potentially fatal, illness. Within all of these categories, children have increased vulnerability compared with other groups.[74]
    [edit] American College of Preventive Medicine

    In 2006, the American College of Preventive Medicine issued a policy statement on “Abrupt Climate Change and Public Health Implications”:
    The American College of Preventive Medicine (ACPM) accept the position that global warming and climate change is occurring, that there is potential for abrupt climate change, and that human practices that increase greenhouse gases exacerbate the problem, and that the public health consequences may be severe.[75]
    [edit] American Medical Association

    In 2008, the American Medical Association issued a policy statement on global climate change declaring that they:
    Support the findings of the latest Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report, which states that the Earth is undergoing adverse global climate change and that these changes will negatively affect public health. Support educating the medical community on the potential adverse public health effects of global climate change, including topics such as population displacement, flooding, infectious and vector-borne diseases, and healthy water supplies.[76]
    [edit] American Public Health Association

    In 2007, the American Public Health Association issued a policy statement titled ‘’Addressing the Urgent Threat of Global Climate Change to Public Health and the Environment’’:
    The long-term threat of global climate change to global health is extremely serious and the fourth IPCC report and other scientific literature demonstrate convincingly that anthropogenic GHG emissions are primarily responsible for this threat….US policy makers should immediately take necessary steps to reduce US emissions of GHGs, including carbon dioxide, to avert dangerous climate change.[77]
    [edit] Australian Medical Association

    In 2004, the Australian Medical Association issued the position statement Climate Change and Human Health in which they recommend policies "to mitigate the possible consequential health effects of climate change through improved energy efficiency, clean energy production and other emission reduction steps."[78]
    This statement was revised again in 2008:
    The world’s climate – our life-support system – is being altered in ways that are likely to pose significant direct and indirect challenges to health. While ‘climate change’ can be due to natural forces or human activity, there is now substantial evidence to indicate that human activity – and specifically increased greenhouse gas (GHGs) emissions – is a key factor in the pace and extent of global temperature increases. Health impacts of climate change include the direct impacts of extreme events such as storms, floods, heatwaves and fires and the indirect effects of longer-term changes, such as drought, changes to the food and water supply, resource conflicts and population shifts.
    Increases in average temperatures mean that alterations in the geographic range and seasonality of certain infections and diseases (including vector-borne diseases such as malaria, dengue fever, Ross River virus and food-borne infections such as Salmonellosis) may be among the first detectable impacts of climate change on human health.
    Human health is ultimately dependent on the health of the planet and its ecosystem. The AMA believes that measures which mitigate climate change will also benefit public health. Reducing GHGs should therefore be seen as a public health priority.[79]
    [edit] World Federation of Public Health Associations

    In 2001, the World Federation of Public Health Associations[80] issued a policy resolution on global climate change:
    Noting the conclusions of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and other climatologists that anthropogenic greenhouse gases, which contribute to global climate change, have substantially increased in atmospheric concentration beyond natural processes and have increased by 28 percent since the industrial revolution….Realizing that subsequent health effects from such perturbations in the climate system would likely include an increase in: heat-related mortality and morbidity; vector-borne infectious diseases,… water-borne diseases…(and) malnutrition from threatened agriculture….the World Federation of Public Health Associations…recommends precautionary primary preventive measures to avert climate change, including reduction of greenhouse gas emissions and preservation of greenhouse gas sinks through appropriate energy and land use policies, in view of the scale of potential health impacts....[81]
    [edit] World Health Organization

    In 2008, the United Nations' World Health Organization issued their report Protecting health from climate change:
    There is now widespread agreement that the earth is warming, due to emissions of greenhouse gases caused by human activity. It is also clear that current trends in energy use, development, and population growth will lead to continuing – and more severe – climate change.
    The changing climate will inevitably affect the basic requirements for maintaining health: clean air and water, sufficient food and adequate shelter. Each year, about 800,000 people die from causes attributable to urban air pollution, 1.8 million from diarrhoea resulting from lack of access to clean water supply, sanitation, and poor hygiene, 3.5 million from malnutrition and approximately 60,000 in natural disasters. A warmer and more variable climate threatens to lead to higher levels of some air pollutants, increase transmission of diseases through unclean water and through contaminated food, to compromise agricultural production in some of the least developed countries, and increase the hazards of extreme weather.[82]

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    With the release of the revised statement[103] by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no scientific body of national or international standing rejects the findings of human-induced effects on global warming.


    Call it a leftist conspiracy all you want, for the most part scientists are not being paid the big money to lie about their results. In fact, in order for me to get a great position as a chemist it looks like I have to spent 10+ years on post-docs and make 40,000 a year during that period.


  9. #69
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    There certainly is consensus among people who make money with making people absolutely terrified of CO2, but that's all money and politics.

    Read an interesting interview with a serious scientist. The question was why sceptics were always older than the howlers, the answer was very telling, they have already established their carreer so they don't have to worry about being shortcutted from future projects.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    "Serious scientist" equals "scientist that agrees with Frags position".

    Very telling, my fanatical friend.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  11. #71

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    There are no gods. The ozone layer has not always been there. It is the product of earthly life. Earth is a living planet. From algae to man, we shape this world, create a world of our own making.
    You mean we have paper copiers at high altitudes? Or you forgot to take your chemistry today? (3 moleculse of oxygen plus an photon with wavelength in the UV spectrum make 2 molecules of ozone plus a photon with longer wavelength approximating a sky blue spectrum.) Ozone is quite toxic, btw.
    - Tellos Athenaios
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    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  12. #72
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    You mean we have paper copiers at high altitudes? Or you forgot to take your chemistry today? (3 moleculse of oxygen plus an photon with wavelength in the UV spectrum make 2 molecules of ozone plus a photon with longer wavelength approximating a sky blue spectrum.) Ozone is quite toxic, btw.
    ¿Que?
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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  13. #73

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    About the chemistry or about its relevance? It's an important distinction in your story of remaking the world unto our own image, because there are things which we rely on but cannot manufacture/control ourselves, things which may be able to destroy but which we cannot recreate when they are gone.
    - Tellos Athenaios
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    ὁ δ᾽ ἠλίθιος ὣσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει” – Kratinos in Dionysalexandros.

  14. #74
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    GAH!
    Last edited by Louis VI the Fat; 04-15-2011 at 02:34.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
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  15. #75
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I see.

    May I suggest that next time you seek to show off your understanding of chemistry, however irrelevant to the discussion, you bear polite conversation manners in mind.
    Awwwwwww Louis, you're so cute sometimes
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  16. #76
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Awwwwwww Louis, you're so cute sometimes
    Don't simultaneously quit smoking and have and internet connection.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    There certainly is consensus among people who make money with making people absolutely terrified of CO2, but that's all money and politics.

    Read an interesting interview with a serious scientist. The question was why sceptics were always older than the howlers, the answer was very telling, they have already established their carreer so they don't have to worry about being shortcutted from future projects.
    disregard mountain of evidence, repeat opinion.


  18. #78
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Don't simultaneously quit smoking and have and internet connection.
    Get a girlfriend
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  19. #79
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    I'm beginning to wonder if anyone read the link I posted, or just jumped in with the usual suspects saying the usual things.

    I wonder why I bother sometimes.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  20. #80

    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if anyone read the link I posted, or just jumped in with the usual suspects saying the usual things.

    I wonder why I bother sometimes.
    Calm down, I have no time to read your link until the weekend. I only popped in here with enough time to provide a copy paste of a wiki page to show what Fragony said was completely false.


  21. #81
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if anyone read the link I posted, or just jumped in with the usual suspects saying the usual things.

    I wonder why I bother sometimes.
    I did, and I also read Louis' link. Did you?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  22. #82
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if anyone read the link I posted, or just jumped in with the usual suspects saying the usual things.

    I wonder why I bother sometimes.
    I did, and I also read Louis' link.


    There's a lot to be said about AGH. As with abortion, guns, gays, one does not feel like writing hefty posts, again. Very briefly, I think the process is real. I think the more interesting debate is 'does it matter', and 'can we be quite certain there will be no runaway processes'. One can question the measures taken to limit AGW. Some will win, others will lose. I'd be getting worried in Australia and even Spain, and be cheering in Canada or Russia.

    It is also one of the topics on which I seem to mostly agree with Furunculus.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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  23. #83
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    here's a lot to be said about AGH. As with abortion, guns, gays, one does not feel like writing hefty posts, again. Very briefly, I think the process is real. I think the more interesting debate is 'does it matter', and 'can we be quite certain there will be no runaway processes'. One can question the measures taken to limit AGW. Some will win, others will lose. I'd be getting worried in Australia and even Spain, and be cheering in Canada or Russia.:
    Indeed. And the other question that should be debated is why, even if anthropogenic heating is less dangerous or non-existent, we are not using the mere risk to drive energy technologies away from carbon anyway. Regardless of warming, we face significant strategic threats to our energy supplies through reliance on carbon. To seek to replace that reliance is good sense, and may also save the planet. The hardline denialist approach seems utterly bereft of sense because it includes this baby with their bathwater. (In the same sort of manner as the worst of the doom-mongers want us taxed back into unlit caves).
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  24. #84
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    There's a lot to be said about AGH. As with abortion, guns, gays, one does not feel like writing hefty posts, again. Very briefly, I think the process is real. I think the more interesting debate is 'does it matter', and 'can we be quite certain there will be no runaway processes'. One can question the measures taken to limit AGW. Some will win, others will lose. I'd be getting worried in Australia and even Spain, and be cheering in Canada or Russia.

    It is also one of the topics on which I seem to mostly agree with Furunculus.

    EDIT: A common acronym expressing some degree of surprise. BG

    No-one doubts that climate changes, and I know that it can be catastrophic, but if this bout is not principally anthropogenic, or; is anthropogenic but not catastrophic, or; is catastrophic but not CO2 induced, then our current direction in spending trillions in future wealth growth on controlling CO2 may be as futile and pointless as Canute with his tides. I have grave doubts about the proposed political solution, and I do not accept that IPCC climate scientists are peerless and disinterested paragons worthy of unquestioning faith.

    or in more extended form:

    Articles of faith:
    1. That climate change is always happening, and the recent historical temperature record has shown significant warming
    2. That climate change has frequently been both rapid and severe, which by definition makes it catastrophic to species
    3. That feedback mechanisms, both positive and negative, work to accelerate or mitigate the scale and rate of change
    4. That humans are a climate feedback mechanism, and will have an impact on the state of climate equilibrium
    5. That CO2 is a Greenhouse Gas, and that anthropogenic CO2 is by definition anthropogenic climate change
    6. That it may yet come to pass that we, as a species, are proven to be responsible for causing catastrophic climate change

    However:

    a) the IPCC has thus far failed to conclusively demonstrate that anthropogenic CO2 is principally responsible for what will be catastrophic climate change in the near future, or that the many claimed impacts which justify the title “catastrophe” are based on solid and sound science.

    b) the IPCC climate change models that underpin this conclusion have insufficient data for long term projections, do not properly account for feedback mechanisms and thus fail to produce accurate projections, and contain too many errors to produce truthful projections.

    c) the political solutions to the problem as presented by the IPCC are both staggeringly expensive for human society, and highly inefficient as a method achieving a non-catastrophic outcome, and thus require a large amount of certainty in (a) and (b) before implementing (c) becomes a sensible idea.

    To put this another way; the IPCC solution will cost 12.9% of global GDP by 2100 (the equivalent of €27 trillion a year), at a time when tens of millions die unnecessarily each year from disease and poor infrastructure, and two thirds of the worlds current population lives in abject poverty, so, if you have little faith in the diagnosis, of what value is the prognosis, especially when the same resources applied to a different remedy could achieve a much better outcome for humanity?

    The problems identified above have been compounded by the fact that parts of the IPCC process are not conducted in an open and scientific manner, they require our faith that the ‘consensus’ is correct and when they do not receive that faith the only option is to attack, to vilify, and to demean. Any public utterance of scepticism is met by the accusation of sin; “but you don’t believe in climate change, do you!” This is the real poison of the consensus as advocated through politics and eco-preaching, it is removing the responsibility of critical analysis from people, and replacing it with xenophobic faith. The healthiest aspect of the whole ‘Gates’ saga is that climate scientists have been proven not to be peerless and disinterested Gods labouring ceaselessly for the salvation of humanity, they are just as venal and flawed as the rest of us, and that trust is something to be earned not given.

    This is no longer science, it is politics.

    True scepticism is not immovable as climate science is advancing every day in its understanding, and a thorough review of climate science may indeed reveal that climate change is both catastrophic and anthropogenic in nature, but even were this to be the case I would not be surprised if the solution deemed necessary looked very different from that which is proposed today. We are after all a species that is the triumph of evolution and adaptation, and the technology of the 21st century will always be the best solution to whatever the sins of the 20th century might prove to be.

    The ‘Gates’ saga is no bad thing, at the very least we will have a vastly greater understanding of climate change; its primary mechanisms, its feedback mechanisms, its impacts, and by extension the political measures that will effectively ameliorate the real impact. At best we may discover that stunting world growth for the next century is unnecessary, at worst that climate change is both imminent and catastrophic…….. but not principally anthropogenic!

    Thank God for the ‘Gates’.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 04-15-2011 at 10:57.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  25. #85
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    To get a sense of the relentless attack on science, some fun emails obtained from BP.

    BP's criminal neglect and disregard for the environment and locals led the huge oil spill disaster. To make amends, BP pledged half a billion dollar towards research into the oil spill. This money, as it emerges from the obtained correspondence, BP tried to use to steer science, direct it favourably to its own interests.

    Sadly, we live in an age of diminishing independent science. Of politics no longer content to try to spin their role within an accepted reality, but trying to obscure, confuse and change the perception of reality. Worrying developments.


    BP officials tried to take control of a $500m fund pledged by the oil company for independent research into the consequences of the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster, it has emerged.
    Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show BP officials openly discussing how to influence the work of scientists supported by the fund, which was created by the oil company in May last year.
    Russell Putt, a BP environmental expert, wrote in an email to colleagues on 24 June 2010: "Can we 'direct' GRI [Gulf of Mexico Research Initiative] funding to a specific study (as we now see the governor's offices trying to do)? What influence do we have over the vessels/equipment driving the studies vs the questions?".
    The email was obtained by Greenpeace and shared with the Guardian.


    The documents are expected to reinforce fears voiced by scientists that BP has too much leverage over studies into the impact of last year's oil disaster.
    Those concerns go far beyond academic interest into the impact of the spill. BP faces billions in fines and penalties, and possible criminal charges arising from the disaster. Its total liability will depend in part on a final account produced by scientists on how much oil entered the gulf from its blown-out well, and the damage done to marine life and coastal areas in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. The oil company disputes the government estimate that 4.1m barrels of oil entered the gulf.


    There is no evidence in the emails that BP officials were successful in directing research. The fund has since established procedures to protect its independence.
    Other documents obtained by Greenpeace suggest that the politics of oil spill science was not confined to BP. The White House clashed with officials from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) last summer when drafting the administration's account of what has happened to the spilled oil.
    On 4 August, Jane Lubchenco, the NOAA administrator, demanded that the White House issue a correction after it claimed that the "vast majority" of BP oil was gone from the Gulf.



    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
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  26. #86
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    disregard mountain of evidence, repeat opinion.
    Hey that's my position, repeat repeat repeat, eventually people will take it for granted.
    Last edited by Banquo's Ghost; 04-16-2011 at 12:58. Reason: Profanity removed

  27. #87
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Is the arctic ice retreating? Is there global warming?

    Well, the world's arctic powers certainly seem to think so. Wikileaks shows how the arctic countries have been busy bees happily dividing between them the spoils of dissapearing ice sheets:

    Secret US embassy cables released by Wikileaks show nations are racing to "carve up" Arctic resources - oil, gas and even rubies - as the ice retreats.

    They suggest that Arctic states, including the US and Russia, are all pushing to stake a claim.
    The opportunity to exploit resources has come because of a dramatic fall in the amount of ice in the Arctic.
    The US Geological Survey estimates oil reserves off Greenland are as big as those in the North Sea.



    The cables were released by the Wikileaks whistleblower website as foreign ministers from the eight Arctic Council member states - Russia, the United States, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden and Iceland - met in Nuuk, Greenland on Thursday to sign a treaty on international search-and-rescue in the Arctic and discuss the region's future challenges.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/9483790.stm
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
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    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
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    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  28. #88
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Kewl, an American school decided that making children absolutely terrified of CO2 isn't the same as a real education, and is honest about the fact that there is no consensus, that not every scientist is 100% sure we are ALL going to DIE unless we(you) ACT RIGHT NOW. Apocalyptoloco's are naturally coughing up their lungs screaming it's no different from denying the holocaust, odd religion.

  29. #89
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Kewl, an American school decided that making children absolutely terrified of CO2 isn't the same as a real education, and is honest about the fact that there is no consensus, that not every scientist is 100% sure we are ALL going to DIE unless we(you) ACT RIGHT NOW. Apocalyptoloco's are naturally coughing up their lungs screaming it's no different from denying the holocaust, odd religion.
    Not every scientist is 100% sure that evolution is correct.

    I still see no reason to teach it.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  30. #90
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Global Climate Disruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Indeed. And the other question that should be debated is why, even if anthropogenic heating is less dangerous or non-existent, we are not using the mere risk to drive energy technologies away from carbon anyway. Regardless of warming, we face significant strategic threats to our energy supplies through reliance on carbon. To seek to replace that reliance is good sense, and may also save the planet. The hardline denialist approach seems utterly bereft of sense because it includes this baby with their bathwater. (In the same sort of manner as the worst of the doom-mongers want us taxed back into unlit caves).
    A fair point.

    I wonder, however, just how well such a focus would work in practice. Invention seems to function best when prompted by market forces/obvious need (Edison's light bulb; Tesla's alternating current) or when it is a spinoff from some other compelling goal. To date, "climate change" hasn't really generated that kind of compelling response.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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