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Thread: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

  1. #31
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Life on the dole creates a permanent underclass. Abolishing a system in which many who don't work are better off than some who do is the right policy aim.
    Yet getting the incentives to work right won't matter unless there are jobs to be had. In this regard, the £1 billion carbon tax on business isn't helpful. Nor is the notion of extracting the "maximum sustainable revenue" in taxes from the financial-services sector. If Britain is to be open for business, it could start by being less choosy about which businesses to favor and cutting taxes across-the-board instead. The biggest risk to the project is the government's proposed decade-long phase in of the new rules. Spreading the reforms across two parliamentary terms creates a danger that the changes may never see the light of day.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  2. #32
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    In the mean time, as the Tories were cheering at the announcement of the cuts, some of my colleagues started their redundancy procedure.
    To see the face of the 50 something years old, having to go home to tell the family that at the end of November, no more job. X-mass will be nice.
    In the mean time, the Mayor of London Boris Johnson will increase the Railways Fair around just 70%. Taxes will go up soon. The Social Benefit will give more than the Banks. But we are all together and all is fair…

    This demolition Coalition succeeded in making Maggie looking as a Social Democrat. The poor woman is actually in a hospital, but she would be proud, as soon she will recover.

    I am not in this charette… Perhaps next time, but it will be fair, of course…
    it is terribly sad........................ but:

    tough!

    the government should not be tithing more than 40% of the wealth of the nation for public spending, it is immoral, as it will retard the long-term growth that will preserve standards of living for our children.

    the government should not be spending massively beyond its tax base, it is disgusting, as those costs will be borne by our children tomorrow to fund our ease today.

    Hack, Slash, Butcher, Cut, and continue doing so until we get back to a deficit free public spending program that consumes no more than 40% of the nations wealth.

    I will cheer the government on!
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  3. #33
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    Hack, Slash, Butcher, Cut, and continue doing so until we get back to a deficit free public spending program that consumes no more than 40% of the nations wealth.

    I will cheer the government on!
    ye can start with those Nuke subs and carriers then what a waste of money.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  4. #34

    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Not to mention the tanks, obsolete planes and other cold war cruft.
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  5. #35

    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    ye can start with those Nuke subs and carriers then what a waste of money.
    Start there and then what?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    it is terribly sad........................ but: tough!” Yeap. I will tell my colleague who just lost their job. It is for the good of the nation that the banks keep their bonuses.

    About the joke of the deficit. The Demolition Coalition says it I necessary to slaughter the poorest as it wants to cancel the deficit (enormous one!!!!) in…. 4 years. What a joke.
    Each family having a mortgage for 20 years would dream of a debt you can pay in 4 years…

    No, my dear, it is not about debts, it is about ideology. Money money money is the tune of this government. It is not about the country but about so few who will benefit of so many.

    “the government should not be tithing more than 40% of the wealth of the nation for public spending, it is immoral, as it will retard the long-term growth that will preserve standards of living for our children.”
    Immoral? What a Cr…?
    The only way to protect the long term of a nation is do not trust private sector for the simple reason private sector has to make profit. So Private Sector don’t give a whatever to what can’t give money immediately…

    That is the Big Society: Sweatshops and Lords, the Return with a Vengeance III.
    But it is fair, according to you and our Government.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Meanwhile, get with the times, Cons! In a timely article earlier today, one of the world's foremost economists, Krugman totally rubbishes the British austerity measures:
    Ouch!
    So not spending huge amounts of money you don't have, and don't plan to have except from decades of borrowing, is a 'fad'?

    The only way to protect the long term of a nation is do not trust private sector for the simple reason private sector has to make profit. So Private Sector don’t give a whatever to what can’t give money immediately…
    You're right; the private sector has to provide a service people will willingly pay for and can't operate for decades by spending more than they make.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  8. #38
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Start there and then what?
    You want me to draft the budget then????
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  9. #39
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    the private sector has to provide a service people”. Nope. The Private Sector has to make money thanks to the Monopoly they’ve got from their friends in the government. E.g. Trains, Energy or sectors that was previously in the Government hands.
    So, no long term planning, just fast profits, as shown recently…
    Dam, I always forget. The Deficit has nothing to do with the Bankers greed nor the collapse of Pension Funds…
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  10. #40
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    the private sector has to provide a service people”. Nope. The Private Sector has to make money thanks to the Monopoly they’ve got from their friends in the government. E.g. Trains, Energy or sectors that was previously in the Government hands.
    So, no long term planning, just fast profits, as shown recently…
    Dam, I always forget. The Deficit has nothing to do with the Bankers greed nor the collapse of Pension Funds…
    Oh, so the answer to the problem of monopolies caused by the government is ... more government? Just take away the monopolies. Plus, the vast majority of the private sector are not state granted monopolies.

    But the central point is that governments cannot spend more than they take in forever. A reckoning was inevitable. Either drastic spending cuts or extreme tax increases.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  11. #41
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    the private sector has to provide a service people”. Nope. The Private Sector has to make money thanks to the Monopoly they’ve got from their friends in the government. E.g. Trains, Energy or sectors that was previously in the Government hands.
    So, no long term planning, just fast profits, as shown recently…
    Dam, I always forget. The Deficit has nothing to do with the Bankers greed nor the collapse of Pension Funds…
    Oh, so the answer to the problem of monopolies caused by the government is ... more government? Just take away the monopolies. Plus, the vast majority of the private sector are not state granted monopolies.

    But the central point is that governments cannot spend more than they take in forever. A reckoning was inevitable. Either drastic spending cuts or extreme tax increases.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  12. #42
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    So not spending huge amounts of money you don't have, and don't plan to have except from decades of borrowing, is a 'fad'?
    It's about massive cuts during an economic downtime. The tentative recovery is put in danger.

    The operative word here is 'timing'. One might well agree that the budget needs to be balanced. But: eventually. What, one might wonder, is the point of firing 490.000 government employees at a moment when the private sector is not at all capable of employing them?
    If one desperately wants to shrink the public sector, then do so gradually, at a an opportune moment. Or else scenarios like 'Japan 1990's' might very well loom.

    The fad itself is the 'unsustainable deficit scare' of a few months ago. This fad was the alarmist notion that at some point in the future an aging Western populations might cause deficit problems, which became cause for cries for immediate dismantling of the Western governments. One would suspect a mostly ideological driven agenda, what with the previous notion that deficits needed to be bloated beyond any precedence to save the private sector.
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  13. #43
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    I thought that these cuts in numbers are due to be over the next 4 years, not next week...

    Reassuring the markets means we as a nation pay less for our debt, which saves the country millions at the least. If anyone can think of a way of making this vast sum that is required for such tasks as welfare payments then please do say. Hundreds of millions have been allocated to catch tax evaders but unless anyone has a way to get that money now it isn't going to help.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    ye can start with those Nuke subs and carriers then what a waste of money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos
    Not to mention the tanks, obsolete planes and other cold war cruft.
    That argument is always brought up, and it remains just as stupid each time it is trotted out.

    Defence is a tiny proportion of public expenditure whose budget has remained flat for the last twenty years during which time welfare and the NHS have more doubled, and now utterly dwarf defence as a percentage of total expenditure.

    Defence of the Realm is the [first] duty of the nation state, and it is demonstrably the one with least fat to cut, if only because it has been subject to the least of labour's largesse.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    “it is terribly sad........................ but: tough!”
    No, my dear, it is not about debts, it is about ideology.

    “the government should not be tithing more than 40% of the wealth of the nation for public spending, it is immoral, as it will retard the long-term growth that will preserve standards of living for our children.”
    Immoral? What a Cr…?
    yup, it is indeed ideology, at least on my part, and goes quite simply thus; "get the ^%@< off my money!" i reject the tacit assumption that any cut in taxation/spending is immoral, for the logical end point of that logic is to tax at 100% rate. and no, i'm not even in the 40% band, but will i stand idly by when you come for my neighbour, no, because next time you will be coming for me!

    bad news chuckles; yes, as long as I and lots of others like me are of the opinion that a 50% top-rate on income tax is punative, and as long as we consider tithing more than ~40% of the nations wealth both immoral and retarded, you are going to have trouble pushing through labour style public spending and social entitlements.

    tough.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 10-25-2010 at 09:31.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    That argument is always brought up, and it remains just as stupid each time it is trotted out.

    Defence is a tiny proportion of public expenditure whose budget has remained flat for the last twenty years during which time welfare and the NHS have more doubled, and now utterly dwarf defence as a percentage of total expenditure.

    Defence of the Realm is the [first] duty of the nation state, and it is demonstrably the one with least fat to cut, if only because it has been subject to the least of labour's largesse.
    Right maybe I was using a bit of hyperbole but the new carriers are a disgraceful waste of money when they dont even have a plane that can be used or even one able to use them.

    The old joke about the Irish Naval Service was it was the only one that if you fell overboard you might get stung by nettles, well the RN is the only one you might land on an Admiral if you fell overboard.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 10-25-2010 at 14:16.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    UK defense needs more funds. It's expensive to scrape all those subs off of Scottish rocks.


    More importantly, the TorLiban vandals are selling off the family jewels:

    Many of England's best-loved forests and woodlands may be sold to large landowners, housing developers and international power companies in what could be the UK's greatest change of land ownership since the second world war.

    Caroline Spelman, the environment secretary, is expected to announce a new strategy later this week that will lay the foundations for more than 150,000 hectares of forest and other land owned by the state in England to be sold within three years.

    Tonight, conservationists and opposition parties as well as landowners warned that the land sale would be a costly disaster unless stringent safeguards were put in place.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ate-developers
    Why not rather keep British forests public, and keep them British, that any Briton may enjoy their fruits?
    You can only sell them once. The Tory vandals are at it again. To balance the books once, another cherished British institution is taken from ordinary Britons and squandered to private interest.
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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    TorLiban


    Excellent Louis I must remember that one.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  19. #49
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    It's brilliant watching the UK fail. =)
    #Hillary4prism

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    It's brilliant watching the UK fail. =)
    at what?

    --

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...predicted.html
    Last edited by Furunculus; 10-26-2010 at 11:05.
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  21. #51

    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    Right maybe I was using a bit of hyperbole but the new carriers are a disgraceful waste of money when they dont even have a plane that can be used or even one able to use them.

    The old joke about the Irish Naval Service was it was the only one that if you fell overboard you might get stung by nettles, well the RN is the only one you might land on an Admiral if you fell overboard.
    Precisely: those pet projects of officers for a new project/job to do are mostly a waste of taxpayer money. And by all accounts the carriers are “not so bad” for UK standards and true enough the carriers might actually be useful for force projection or aid. But it's stuff like the frigates, the nimrods, the typhoons, the wildcats which makes no financial sense. Or indeed that small invasion force of tanks built around a mistaken idea about what the Soviets might've done if they ever got that itch.

    If you simply want a “large” army/navy/airforce because it makes you go all warm and fuzzy gaze on. If you want defense of the realm then you might do better to avert your eye.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    It's about massive cuts during an economic downtime. The tentative recovery is put in danger.
    The financial solvency of the nation is in danger for some countries if they don't do cuts.

    Government spending at its best doesn't help the economy enough to justify the cost.

    The fad itself is the 'unsustainable deficit scare' of a few months ago. This fad was the alarmist notion that at some point in the future an aging Western populations might cause deficit problems, which became cause for cries for immediate dismantling of the Western governments. One would suspect a mostly ideological driven agenda, what with the previous notion that deficits needed to be bloated beyond any precedence to save the private sector.
    You never heard me arguing for the huge bailouts to the banks or car companies.

    Another point; if cuts aren't made now, then when? Each passing day increases the deficit and the eventual pain. And even with the terrible finances of today, the strikers in France refuse to consider a reasonable retirement age. What would they do if the saw the government wasn't in great financial danger and wanted to cut their benefits?

    Also, action must be taken now in order in order to forestall complete collapse in the future. Putting it off is not smart. It has just taken a worldwide recession to see that.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Precisely: those pet projects of officers for a new project/job to do are mostly a waste of taxpayer money. And by all accounts the carriers are “not so bad” for UK standards and true enough the carriers might actually be useful for force projection or aid. But it's stuff like the frigates, the nimrods, the typhoons, the wildcats which makes no financial sense. Or indeed that small invasion force of tanks built around a mistaken idea about what the Soviets might've done if they ever got that itch.

    If you simply want a “large” army/navy/airforce because it makes you go all warm and fuzzy gaze on. If you want defense of the realm then you might do better to avert your eye.
    ^ has no understanding of the concept of deterrence ^
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  24. #54
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Concerning cuts, Unions have two arguments:

    When it's a boom: cuts now are not required - growth rather than cut (regardless of need, utility, efficiency). Why should workers suffer when the companies are doing so well?
    When it's a bust: cuts now are not required - will hit workers when they are already down, need to spend one's way out of recession (debt rating, fiscal responsibility etc are meaningless terms).

    Small ships are probably the best for the UK. Although a UK frigate / destroyer / cruiser isn't going to do anything against the big players it can be very useful against pirates / drug runners or any other smaller ships from other navies. An aircraft carrier can only be in one place and might dominate the surrounding waters, is still a very small area.

    Nimrods are comparatively cheap and are exceptionally useful for anything but the smallest skirmish. I would agree on Tanks though.

    We need a small Armed Forces probably based on the US's Marine Corps with the forces integrated together with the emphasis on the sea and amphibious landings and inland for a few miles. Deep land based campaigns is something that currently there is no point even pretending we can undertake, so best focus resources on doing one thing well.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  25. #55

    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    ^ has no understanding of the concept of deterrence ^
    Ah but I do. You miss the point that the way the UK spends its MOD budget has less to do with buying actual capability for a reasonable price (indeed first thing you do is ditch everything made in the UK and start shopping abroad because you avoid the made-in-UK markup), and has more to do with institutionalised spending traditions and/or career opportunities for officers.

    Defence of the realm, or traditions: pick one.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 10-27-2010 at 19:16.
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    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Ah but I do. You miss the point that the way the UK spends its MOD budget has less to do with buying actual capability for a reasonable price (indeed first thing you do is ditch everything made in the UK and start shopping abroad because you avoid the made-in-UK markup), and has more to do with institutionalised spending traditions and/or career opportunities for officers.

    Defence of the realm, or traditions: pick one.
    the other side to that is that british companies result in british taxes which get fed back into the exchequer.

    in addition to providing a huge export market that helps balance our trade deficit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  27. #57
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    And even with the terrible finances of today, the strikers in France refuse to consider a reasonable retirement age.” Reasonable? The reason why people live longer is because the age of retirement. The body starts to deteriorate at around 63 (average). So, stopping at 60 is just on time to enjoy a little bit of life and slower the process.
    Then, Sakozy wants the French to have the double fork: First increase the age for retirement, second to keep the number of years needed to get the full pension.
    By the way, the age of retirement is not compulsory. It is a right, not a duty.
    Why do you want the French to accept their freedom to be taken?
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  28. #58
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    'reasonable' is defined by what the future generation are willing to pay to support the previous.

    britain is sitting on £3 trillion in unfunded pension liabilities, how's france doing?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  29. #59
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    how's France doing?”
    Better, as in France, the debt is in majority private.
    But here you see the manipulation made by every Government.
    Pensions are in deficit because unemployment (un-employed can’t pay) and by the fact that the Businesses got so many exemption and charge free niches.

    The trap is in (for France) the shifting of the actually pensioners and the employment figures. And then, the same Government will claim that the Social Benefit figures are too high and have to be cut because it is not possible for the community to pay for the scroungers… Remind you something?
    At the same time that the President Sarkozy is trying (succeeding) to destroy the National Pension Scheme, his brother (Monsieur, Frere du Roi) is creating a private Pension Fund.
    So the problem is not the money, the problem is that the money is not going in the right pockets, theirs.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  30. #60
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Murdoch Dividend and the UK Government Spending Cuts

    "But here you see the manipulation made by every Government."

    We have traditionally had very low unemployment relative to many neighbours, and much of the black-hole comes from public sector pensions in addition to the state pension, perhaps not the same problem faced by france.....?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

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