Preview: The Qarthadastim

[Earl of Memory]

As always, great preview, very professional. I wish good luck to the team and the mod! (and hope it gets out before the end of the world :p)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Good to know Carthage has been confirmed for EBII

Excellent work. The units look awesome

[darius_d]

my fav faction! Love those guys.
Any unit added to\removed from Qarthadast roster compared to EB1?

[delablake]

Beautiful as always. Looking forward for a little Christmas-Season gaming session...perhaps

[dusko]

Hi guys, great work as always, I have only one question about Lybian Infantry, they are shown as hoplites in the prewiev, but it is sead in the description that they fought as thureophoroi in EBs time period, as this is work in progress will this be changed in some manner? This is my first post on the forum so I don't wanna sound like I'm criticizaing you.
I'm just curious. Thanks and respect to the team and their work.

[HFox]

magnificent!!!

[Gustave]

Wow, this is amazing, thank you guys! The new features seems to be both more numerous and more complex, just as we like it :D.
One of the things i really appreciate is that now all units basic infantry have sword, or so it seems. All units in the pictures had a sword modeled on their side, but only the sacred band units wield it in their hands (and a lovely kopis no less, or at least a sword with similar design). Is there any confirmation on whether the Liby-Phoenician Hoplites and Libyan Infantry will have swords that are usable and not just modeled? I really missed the swords for Liby-Phoenician Hoplites when I was up against other sword wielding nations like rome.

Only the sacred band uses swords and spears, the other units have only 1 weapon (the swords of the lybi-phoenician infantry, for exemple, are purely decorative). The reason is that, thanks to the crappy engine, they always quickly switch to their secondary weapon when engaged in close combat, so they act as swordmen rather than hoplites.

Hi guys, great work as always, I have only one question about Lybian Infantry, they are shown as hoplites in the prewiev, but it is sead in the description that they fought as thureophoroi in EBs time period, as this is work in progress will this be changed in some manner? This is my first post on the forum so I don't wanna sound like I'm criticizaing you.
I'm just curious. Thanks and respect to the team and their work.

They are hoplites with leather aspides in the early era, and they will be upgradable to thureophoroi-like infantry later (with thureos and some armours like linothorax), but for now only the early unit is done.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I'm very interested in the evolution of individual units throughout the campaign.

[moonburn]

good work but loosing the council makes the faction split (no agregating point for all the poenii colony´s would mean that the spanish and african colonies would become loosely affiliated) or is it just the loss of the best authority building you can have for kart hadast ?

[Skullheadhq]

Awesome, we had to wait a little bit but it was worth it.

[Bucefalo]

Awesome work, on all fronts. Firstly it is very refreshing to read about the carthaginians in general (and the military) from a less romano-centric point of view, i learned a lot from this preview (such as the lybio-phoenician is more of a derogatory roman word that anything else).

I was also surprised to read that the so-called sacred band cavalry was little more than a myth, plus their new outlook as a hellenistic cavalry armed with xyston makes a lot of sense, in the context of the period of EB. In this regard i think the update from the original EBI version is very noticeable, and shows how much work has gone into it.

I must admit that i am a little skeptical regarding how will the AI handle those government types and authority buildings, but i must also say that i am amazed of how much the mod will change the mechanics of the campaign gameplay of M2TW, specially given the limitations, it is both impressive and ambitious, to say the least.

Finally i can not end without recognising the extreme and detailed work that has gone into the models/textures to bring them to another whole new level of accuracy and detail, delighting the fans to no end. I guess the unit part is always the most catchy and what people likes more, because as the saying goes "it goes throught the eyes" but i appreciate the work done on all fronts nevertheless. In this preview i specially enjoyed the research gone into it, because it debunked a lot of the conceptions that i had about the carthaginians and in my opinion showed them from a more objective point of view and less influenced by the roman authors. All in all excellent work, thanks EB team for another awesome preview.

[Urg]

Very very nice.

[antisocialmunky]

I love the new models :D

[BerkeleyBoi]

Wow, looks awesome! Thanks for the preview!

[DaciaJC]

Once again, the EB Team amazes. Incredible look and details on the unit models.

[Denixen]

Only the sacred band uses swords and spears, the other units have only 1 weapon (the swords of the lybi-phoenician infantry, for exemple, are purely decorative). The reason is that, thanks to the crappy engine, they always quickly switch to their secondary weapon when engaged in close combat, so they act as swordmen rather than hoplites.

Thanks for the clarification. This does however not surprise me. I have noticed that pikemen in MTW 2 tend to switch to sec weapon, but only when the enemy get to close or outflank them, even so only a few usually switch. Its a matter of positioning the unit right and protect their flanks. Not sure thou if this is what you are referring to...

Anyway there is a huge difference between hoplites and pikemen, so i guess that the behavior of pikemen don't fit hoplites...

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

When will the demo come out?

This information is classified. :)

should be:

When will the demo come out?

This information is classified. :)

.

[Tanit]

My apologies.

[Zarax]

I would also like to give a special mention to Dexter Hoyos, PHD. His help has been invaluable both on the definition of ethnicities and the development of the trait system (which you will probably see later).

[Brucaliffo]

Cannot wait to crush those beutiful Quarthadastim under my roman caligae!

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

My apologies.

None needed.
.

[RawPower]

THanks for the detailded preview! Love the uniforms and shield details.

[B-Wing]

Thrilled by the new preview! Amazing unit models and skins! Oh my gosh, I think EB2 will easily be the most beautiful and visually fascinating mod for any Total War game yet.

I did have one question/concern after reading the preview, though, regaring the decision to make a new province out of the interior of Sardinia. I understand this was done because the interior was never truly conquered in the mod's timeframe, but I wonder if this could not have been more optimally represented through the new Authority system. It seems the team is going to put a major focus on modeling the varying extents of factional control throughout different provinces via the Authority buildings, and I assumed it would be ideal for this very scenario. If any team members care to comment, what fueled the decision to represent this island as two provinces instead?

[Tanit]

Zarax, Paullus and I spent a lot of time discussing this and Zarax did some superb research on the region. There were a lot of reasons for making it another province, rather than using the new authority buildings. Firstly, there was a major cultural and social difference between the interior and coastal peoples of the islands. The coastal people had been heavily influenced by Punic and Greek settlers and were essentially no longer true Nuraghe. The interior tribes could still, and did still, consider themselves Nuraghe. Secondly, the peoples of the interior were relatively organized in their resistence to outsiders. Although they had come to be relatively peaceful with Carthage, who had finally given up attempting further expansion in the island, they thoroughly resisted Roman occupation in a comparitively organized manner. it was even commented that had the mod been set a couple of decades earlier we might have made the Nuraghe a faction. Thirdly is access to resources from the interior. This was impossible without alliance with the natives, as proven by a failure of Carthage to expand into the interior of the island, and the difficulties suffered by Rome later. Overall we made the interior a seperate province for the same reason that all of Spain is divided into different provinces rather than being one big province, that is to say that some levels of resistence cannot be represented by authority buildings. Our only other option was to remove one province slot from the islands completely and make the interior Eremos, but we all agreed that was not an ideal representation of the region. the final solution, reached after a rather long discussion, was agreed to be the best solution by all.

[B-Wing]

Very informative response, thank you!

[Zarax]

The conquest of interior Sardinia and Corsica was long and bloody, the nuragic people although under-equipped were stubborn guerrilla fighters and incredibly traditionalists.

Carthage tried to subdue them since the 6th century BC, with mixed success.
Their first invasion was beaten down after some initial success and Malchus' expedition was one that earlier achieved great results in Sicily, while their defeat was so unexpected that the general's fate was to be crucifixion.
Knowing this, Malchus on return assaulted Carthage and installed a short-lived dictatorship before being finally exiled.

In the following centuries 3 major campaigns managed to conquest the coastal and plain areas of Sardinia, managing to create an uneasy peace but definitely not a quiet one, proved by the "punic limes" in Sardinia.
Corsican coast was inherited from the Etruscans around 280BC and since then the two islands were ruled pretty much jointly.

During the first punic war romans had moderate success in the coastal areas but their offensives in the interior faced heavy losses, leaving the romans content with keeping the punic navy away from bases closer to Rome.
The truceless war marked the major shift, as the carthaginians mercenaries killed the punic officers and appealed for roman protection.
When Rime refused they were left alone to face a major Nuragic offensive that ousted them and gave the romans the excuse to invade Sardinia since it was now "independent".

Between the two punic wars they faced a similar situation to the Carthaginians, in which the plains were relatively easy to hold but the mountains were not.
After Cannae the most known uprising resulted in two pitched battles between roman and puno-nuragic forces, resulting in roman victory due a failure to properly connect between the allied armies.
Hampsicora's defeat at the battle of Cornus marked the start of a long and bloody guerrilla campaign in the sardinian and corsican mountains, on which many roman generals earned triumphs against the 3 main tribes of the area: Balares, Ilienses and Korsi, living respectively in north-western Sardinia, Central Sardinia and between north-eastern Sardinia and Corsica.

The last major uprising occurred around 178BC, but unrest continued until it was finally put down by Publio Conrnelio Scipio after his Iberian campaign.
Romans despised the nuragic populations, exterminating 80000 out of a population of little over 300000 and writers like Livy, Plutarc and Cicero used expressions like Sardi venales (sardinian cheap slaves because they had a reputation of trying to kill their "owner" at the first chance), latruncoli mastrucati (thieves dressed up in mastruca, a goat/sheep skin dress typical of the nuragic tribes) and a mixed race that took the worst habits of both barbarians and africans.

A distinctive culture with unique monuments (possibly partly related to the balearic tribes), which was a significant player from the bronze age until the 5th century and still important enough to be mentioned sending envoys at Delphi and Alexander the great in the 4th felt as deserving some more representation compared to EB1.
Many historians also consider the loss of Sardinia (which to carthaginians was a core province, home to many colonies) what ignited the revenge feeling that animated Hamilcar Barca to create the iberian domain which would one day serve as base for his young and promising son to deliver the promise he made when he was 9 years old.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Thanks Zarax.
.

[fightermedic]

hey zarax good read that, maybe you should ad it to the opening post? a spoiler after the province descriptions?
a problem i see with this system is that if i conquer one of the 2 split provinces i would automatically rule a part of both isles? seems rather odd to me to automatically rule the interior of corsica just because i have conquered the interior of sardinia *shrug*
nice idea still, unconventional thinking.. thats the part i love about EB :D

[Zarax]

Thing is that you would historically have needed to subdue both at the same time, romans had to learn that the hard way.

There are records of one roman campaign that was successful in northern sardinia only to be ambushed in southern corsica when they stopped there to resupply.

[[cF]HanBaal]

a problem i see with this system is that if i conquer one of the 2 split provinces i would automatically rule a part of both isles? seems rather odd to me to automatically rule the interior of corsica just because i have conquered the interior of sardinia *shrug*

As i understood it only Sardinia will have 2 provinces (coastal and inland) while Corsica remains one province as before? Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think Corsica's inland tribes ever caused the same problems as Sardinian ones. Ever since Alalia's battle, way before the game starts, the whole island of Corsica was significantly peaceful and under Karthadastim control (and that battle was to stop the invading greeks from taking the phoenician colony).

To compensate this new province, Augila (south of Kyrene), will disappear correct? Curious what other changes in other regions of the map are being done. A preview with all the current map changes would be nice.



As for the preview, congrats to all involved in this faction, a step up from EB1 where I was part of this faction team (and also Lusotannan). Karthadast will always be my fav faction in this timeframe and these new authority buildings will enhance in game what made me always love this faction. With the new gov system their character and way of living - a commercial, advanced, diplomatic and exploring nation, who always gave enough autonomy to her colonies and respected her treaties - will be now portrayed better in the campaign. Hope the gov building bonuses will reflect that, including the council/republic gov, admired by Aristoteles in comparison to the greek ones and justified by the fact that Carthage never suffered civil revolts (with the exception of the Mercenaries War later on if you can even include that one).

The units are also amazing. Only bothers me a bit so much red in their outfits and some of the shields with that green olive decoration in the borders (present in rome's faction symbol). Bit too romani no? Historical justification for these 2 situations?

Missed in the preview the elephant units too Can't wait now for the Iberian faction(s) preview(s) to get a hold on what the other half of my armies' units will look like. Any info on when that might happen?

cumps