MTW Viking Expansion Revisited - Help With Belated Mod?

[OldMan]

Doublechecked a couple things.

* The Welsh personality is CATHOLIC_TRADE (and they are not Crusaders).
* In one provence alone, my trade income is 1120.
* In all of my provences, the loyalty of my people is 200%.
* My King's virtue is "Magnificent Builder" with pluses to general loyalty and happiness.

Yet:

* My generals for new troops produced are loyalty 0-2.

Does this seem to you like there is something wrong?

[drone]

I do have a problem, though ... My Welsh generals are coming out with 0 to 2 loyalty. I have built and built, and I have expanded my kingdom from 1 piddly little provence ... I have trade routes stretching from Wales to Finland to Naples ... but no loyalty and no influence.

Is there a way to alter this? I mean, I don't want my Welsh generals to have absolute loyalty, of course, so I don't want a huge change. But as I seem to be doing what works for other factions and I have no general loyalty ....

What is the Welsh king's influence? A low influence is the main factor for low loyalty.

When you say "Faction AI's" are you referring to when to build what, that's in the prodfiles? Or, are you fixing to introduce me to a new file ...

The AI strategy a faction will use is declared in the startpos file (VikingsInc.txt for your mod). The "SetBehaviour::" line will determine the campaign map strategy the AI will apply to a faction. This will determine how aggressive a faction is, and how the faction will focus it's economy. You probably copied the VI faction behaviours to your mod, which might not be the best fit for the larger map/campaign. The unit_prod file (column 15) has weights used to determine recruiting chances (don't ask me how they work exactly though) based on the AI type. The build_prod file (column 10) has the same weighting for buildings.

[OldMan]

Well, then I need to build my King's influence somehow ....

Well, the added factions are expanding, making alliances, attacking, defending ... In fact, the Welsh, Irish and Mercians tend to gang up on poor England and eliminate them ... For running crusades, I'm not sure about that one yet, as few crusades have been declared by anybody. I think this has to do with Europe being so crowded that they are not developing very quickly. Lots of economical and conflict issues goes on, and when you're going broke and in a war with your neighbors, that might not be the best time to launch a crusade. (I wouldn't). The English have finally done so in this current game, and in this current game, they are growing. None of my new/added factions have done so yet; but they are probably struggling economically. A few factions have been eliminated, so we'll see in time as the game plays out. I'll run a few more test games and see if their personalities need adjusted.

My King's influence?

An embarassing 3.

[drone]

My King's influence?

An embarassing 3.

That will do it.

The Irish and Mercians are expansionist AIs, with so little room on the British Isles it's no surprise the English tend to get bumrushed. For crusades, did you add the new factions to the Chapter House faction field in the build_prod?

You can use the -ian switch to change factions during a game, to see how they are progressing and what their focus is. You can also use it to run the game automatically (without a human player), which lets you do several campaigns quickly while observing how everything balances out.

[OldMan]

How do I throw that -ian switch?

[OldMan]

Thanks a lot for your help. After 3 years working on this, I finally have it done. Now, it's just a matter of ironing out the kinks.

[OldMan]

Figured out the -ian switch. Must be missing something, though. Can only see factions 1 through 10. Is there a way to see more? I read somewhere else that I won't be able to switch between all the ones I have. But can I switch between more than 10?

And I looked closely for a way to add new historical events. All I find are labels. I don't find anywhere to put in dates, pictures, sounds. So I guess it's hardwired in the program?

[drone]

You can access factions 1-10 (in order declared in the startpos file) by using 1, 2, 3, ... 0. To access factions 11-20, you use Shift+1, Shift+2, etc. I can't remember how to get factions 21-30, maybe Ctrl+?

The historical events are hard-coded in, unfortunately. I believe total conversion mods have to avoid the time-frame to prevent the Golden Horde from showing up...

[OldMan]

Thanks.

[OldMan]

I am just going through the different factions doing some fine-tuning with starting buildings, starting troops, etc. to try for a little balance. I don't believe this game is, ever will be, or was ever meant to be balanced. But, I am trying to make sure that each faction has the opportunity to win in the hands of a human intelligence on the "normal" setting.

I do have a small thing that does irk me just a little bit, but it's not a catastrophic thing. I have 2 Barbarian_Raider personalities: The Vikings and the Golden Horde. All portraits are mongoloid, including the Vikings. I was wondering if there was a way to refer the Norsemen to a different portrait folder while leaving the Golden Horde be? I have looked very carefully at all the text files I have, my mods, other mods, Vanilla text files, and I don't see anything, so I doubt that there is. But, do you know something I don't? I'd prefer for my Norsemen to show the Viking portraits and my Golden Horde to remain unaltered.

[drone]

In the VI startpos, Viking.txt, there is a line: PortraitsOverride:: FN_07 "vikings". I think this is what you need, changing FN_07 to whatever faction designation you have for the Vikings.

[OldMan]

heeeheeehaaaa! That worked like a champ! Thanks again!

[OldMan]

Hi, I'm back! It's been a couple weeks -- real life caught up with me and I had to do some real work for a change.

Anyway, I have it pretty much sorted out, I guess. All the factions I wanted are there, playtested and all, and all factions are (sometimes) winnable under the "Normal" setting under the hands of a human intelligence. And, that long list of titles, names, etc. is all done.

But, there are a couple more things I may be interested in doing, if you're still willing to help :-)

First, that "region owner table"; What is that? Is that anything I need to modify for game play?

Also, second, I do notice, that the Pope is often not as fast to cry foul and excommunicate me when I play a Catholic faction and attack other Catholics. Oh, he sometimes eventually gets around to it, but he just doesn't seem to be as interested in doing that as he had in the past. Wondered why that was, and thought maybe this would have something to do with it?

Last but not least. Is there a way to create Glory Goals for the factions I've added? Has anyone else ever created glory goals for new factions? If so, how so?

Thanx!

[drone]

Hi, I'm back! It's been a couple weeks -- real life caught up with me and I had to do some real work for a change.

I definitely know what you mean there...

First, that "region owner table"; What is that? Is that anything I need to modify for game play?

Haven't had my morning coffee yet, so I'm a little slow. Do you mean the SetRegionOwner lines in the startpos?

Also, second, I do notice, that the Pope is often not as fast to cry foul and excommunicate me when I play a Catholic faction and attack other Catholics. Oh, he sometimes eventually gets around to it, but he just doesn't seem to be as interested in doing that as he had in the past. Wondered why that was, and thought maybe this would have something to do with it?

If I remember correctly, you reduced the size of each faction at the start, right? I believe excomms happen when larger factions attack smaller ones, if everyone is small, or grows roughly equally by taking the unaffiliated provinces, I could see it taking a while before the warnings come.

Last but not least. Is there a way to create Glory Goals for the factions I've added? Has anyone else ever created glory goals for new factions? If so, how so?

My understanding is that the Glorious Achievments are hardcoded, so I don't think you can do anything with them.

[OldMan]

Hi! Happy new year and thanks for answering!

Actually, I was referring to a hex file in the MTW main folder titled regowner_table?

--------------------
Also, in case others are monitoring this thread, I used some material from the mods "Redux" and "XL", so thanks to you guys who worked on those mods; I found it very helpful in accomplishing this one.

[drone]

I've never looked at that file before, I have no idea what that does. Curious.

[OldMan]

Throughout my years of playing this game, I have stuck with the Catholic factions. Due to this modification and the need to test play, I have played the Egyptians and the Almohads, but always to defeat.

-- I build a great kingdom with lots of troops, lots of influence, rich economy, loyal generals.
-- Inevitably, Catholic factions or 2 start messing with me and launching crusades
-- I have tried weathering the Catholic attacks, but the always just widdle me down to eventual defeat
-- Because I can't just weather it, I become aggressive, and pursue my protagonist
-- I do well at defeating my enemy, generally obliterating the faction, but I end up in Catholic lands
-- I sac the papacy to stop the crusades
-- I put 2 or more Alims on conquered Catholic provences, and watch the percentage of Muslim followers grow to my favor
-- Revolts. I beat them back, and it doesn't matter what I do: Release All, Enslave Ringleaders or Enslave All, the revolts are incredibly persistent!
-- I build buildings that create happiness, build economy, etc. but it just doesn't seem to help
-- Meanwhile, the Catholics start sinking my navy
-- I am developing, training men and Jihads, to keep what I have and to replenish my diminishing troops, so I can't replace the navy as my hands are full
-- Because of the revolts and everyone else that smells blood, my troops become diminished
-- I can not push forward, and I can not hold what I have, especially since ships are being sunk, which makes my entire empire vulnerable
-- As I am slowly being defeated, I try to pull back, giving up provences, so that I can again focus on navy and get back to developing
-- Civil war, always
-- Armies cut to a fraction of what they were by my own men, development set back, no influence, vulnerable seashores, more civil war from my pissed off generals, aggravating the situation, my new rebel faction leader, little more influence than the original, downward spiral, slow defeat.

--------

So, what's the deal here? How do you win with Muslim factions? Why don't my Alims seem to quell uprisings by converting the populace, like my Priests and Bishops are able to do? If pursuing my protagonists overextends my troops bringing inevitable defeat and weathering the protagonists' attacks defeats me slowly, then how do I win with the Muslim factions?

[drone]

You would probably get a better answer in the Main Hall, but I'll give what limited knowledge I have.

Long version

-- I build a great kingdom with lots of troops, lots of influence, rich economy, loyal generals.
-- Inevitably, Catholic factions or 2 start messing with me and launching crusades
-- I have tried weathering the Catholic attacks, but the always just widdle me down to eventual defeat

This is expected, but you should use the climate to your advantage. Make the Catholics march the length of the map, boiling in their armor the whole time. Then use skirmishers and fast horse to make them march more. Fatigue will be the deciding factor.

On the strategic level, don't just let the crusade retreat. Attack the province it retreats to if possible. Destruction of the marker will cause the crusading faction leader's influence to drop by 2, potentially kicking off a civil war and ending your troubles with that faction for a while.

-- Because I can't just weather it, I become aggressive, and pursue my protagonist
-- I do well at defeating my enemy, generally obliterating the faction, but I end up in Catholic lands
-- I sac the papacy to stop the crusades

Good strategy if you can supply the expeditionary force. You will need to equip these armies with troops better suited to temperate lands.

-- I put 2 or more Alims on conquered Catholic provences, and watch the percentage of Muslim followers grow to my favor
-- Revolts. I beat them back, and it doesn't matter what I do: Release All, Enslave Ringleaders or Enslave All, the revolts are incredibly persistent!
-- I build buildings that create happiness, build economy, etc. but it just doesn't seem to help

Imams will convert faster if you can get them. Build Mosques first, they will convert the population and increase happiness. When you move into the province, the Christian/Orthodox churches are destroyed, so all the happiness bonuses from them are lost right off the bat. Send spies in with the Imams/Alims to reduce unrest. I also think the piety of the governor affects the province if it isn't converted yet. You want to assign high dread, low piety governors to these provinces.

-- Meanwhile, the Catholics start sinking my navy
-- I am developing, training men and Jihads, to keep what I have and to replenish my diminishing troops, so I can't replace the navy as my hands are full

I don't know for sure about this, but losing ship battles might affect your faction leader's influence. Not much can can probably do about this except to dance your fleets. Move them each turn and they may stay alive.

-- Because of the revolts and everyone else that smells blood, my troops become diminished
-- I can not push forward, and I can not hold what I have, especially since ships are being sunk, which makes my entire empire vulnerable
-- As I am slowly being defeated, I try to pull back, giving up provences, so that I can again focus on navy and get back to developing
-- Civil war, always

When you give up the provinces, you take an influence hit, hence the civil war.

-- Armies cut to a fraction of what they were by my own men, development set back, no influence, vulnerable seashores, more civil war from my pissed off generals, aggravating the situation, my new rebel faction leader, little more influence than the original, downward spiral, slow defeat.

Short version:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Camels, camels, camels, camels, camels.

[OldMan]

Thanks, I eventually won by taking your advice, as well as blockading my shorelines. I also worked East to West, leaving the Western Europe provences until the last, as they seem to be most prone to revolts.

I did run into another little snag in my mod that I hoped you could help me with.

When the Vikings are obliterated and resurface, they always seem to resurface with archers and urban militia. Hordes of them. No housecarles, no thralls, no landsmen. I looked in the unitprod file and found the column about "rebelling troops that this unit can mix with" column. By looking at what was being brought up in the resurgence, I gathered that I needed to change the numbers for the housecarles, thralls and landsmen to 15. But, i noticed this: Pagan Rebels, Pagan loyalists, Pagan Peasants, Pagan Bandits, Pagan Zealots. Which do I choose? I ask because the Golden Horde are also Pagan, and I'd rather not have Viking troops spring up on them, especially being on the other side of the map.

Do you have any insight on this? When "The Vikings Reappear", I'd like to see them equipped with Viking Thralls, Viking Landsmen and Housecarles; and, maybe some other Viking troops; not just Urban Militia, Archers and Spearmen.

[Raz]

urban militia, archers, and spearmen are generic soldiers, available to almost all factions.

huscarles, landdsmen and thralls are (i assume) only available to the viking faction.
i assume that when a faction reappears, it does so with units that it would be able to produce. if the golden horde appears, they are unable to produce the viking-only units and will get what they normally get.

in short, unless the faction can actually produce the unit, it won't get the unit in reappearances.
also, I recommend bumping up the value to something a bit higher than 15, otherwise they'll get an even mix of generic units and viking units (unless this is of course your intention).

edit: yay 1000 posts for me!
edit pt2: i'm no expert on reappearances and rebellions and other situations in which the game mass produces units like that, so please take my advice with a grain of salt.

[drone]

To add to Raz's comments, do the viking style troops have the Early-era restriction, and are your re-emergences happening in Early or later?

[OldMan]

Sorry, Drone! Has been a while since I've been here! You asked me a question, who knows when, and I never got back to it!

My apologies.

Raz, I solved the problem by taking your advice and bumping up numbers. Vikings are now re-emerging with Viking troops.

Drone, for era restrictions, I bumped most of the Viking troops up to "Early, Late" and/or "All Periods".

[drone]

No worries, real life does happen. Welcome back.

[OldMan]

Thanks for the welcome! Just got away from MTW for a while. I'm like that. I kinda "cycle" through my games (all old games) and spend a couple months beating it (again) then going to the next.

Well, it seems that in fixing the Viking re-emergence, I messed up the Almohad re-emergence, and probably the Egyptian and Turkish, too. My Vikings are now coming fully equipped with Thralls and Housecarles. Some archers and stuff like that. They don't come back strong, like the other factions do, but I'm okay with that.

Now, since I modified things so that the Vikings came back strong, now the Almohads are coming back loaded with -- yep, you guessed it -- archers and urban militia! Sheesh!

I wish I understood the numbers. Since I don't, I'm just making educated guesses at what the numbers mean. (Been a few months, so I don't even remember how I did it, would have to review. I think some of the pointers are here in this thread).

Some label problems, too. The Irish Rui Ri wants to be referred to as the Irish King once in a while, and some faction introduces itself as the Bohemians in a marriage letter, when they are actually another faction (forget which). I'm not too bothered about those, though.

Building AI. Now, that is a problem. The Golden Horde can NOT develop the way the AI has it build it's buildings. It's building all the wrong things. On the other hand, they are a Barbarian Raider, and so are the Vikings, and both have different building requirements. Oh well, I guess the Horde won't be much of a challenge when you're playing against them, and the Vikings are a challenge only for a short time. (Most of the time. One game I played, the Vikings ran wild all over Eastern Europe. The Horde, I've never experienced them developing. They always get squashed, which if they aren't around on the year that the Horde emerges, then they emerge again. So, when I'm down in that area, I try to ally with them to keep that from happening).

Anywho, imperfect but fun to play. And thanks for your help and advice, Drone and Raz.

[OldMan]

Well, every time I think I'm about done, a new issue pops up. Whew.

I tried to play out a battle with the Mercians, whom I gave access to Chivalric Knights. Yep, CTD.

I also know with the Mercians, the banner shields are black. Maybe this has something to do with the issue. Dunno.

Also the issue may be the same as the issue where we had to go in and use Peasant0 etc.

I will try to fix the banner shields first, then go from there.

I am open to any suggestions.