Is it me or are women the most egocentric beings in this world?

[drone]

The key is to set the women against each other. If they think other women desire you, you are in.

[Vuk]

Everyone seems pretty quick to jump to the "men are just as bad!" quip, but you have to remember that he was never saying that men were perfect, or that they were not egotistical.
I think he has a point (not about all women, but about an alarmingly high number of women from my generation esp) that a majority of women seem to have an attitude that if a guy wants a say in a relationship he is trying to run their lives and they should dump him, and that the guy should just be grateful to get what she gives him. Men, unfortunately seem too desperate to actually stand up for themselves at all, because they know that if they do they will be dumped. Why is it this way? Probably a combination of two factors. For one, feminist teachings of empowerment really make women think that equality is always having their way, and that men should feel lucky to be able to do what they say. Second of all, today's men are sackless and lazy. They have unloaded so much responsibility (taking care of the house, balancing finances, taking care of all kinds of business, etc) onto their wives and significant others that women now have the responsibilities of the private/domestic, the social, and the business realm. This (understandably) makes them feel entitled to making all the choices in these realms. Men are content just to sit on their sofas watching football, or go drinking with friends, and then complain if they are left out of decision making. Girls grow up seeing the examples of their parents, and I think develop a very lopsided view of things.
So in a way it is a problem created by the partners of women, but also to a great extent it is a problem created by an egotistically grand sense of empowerment.
No, that does not mean that men are without faults or that they do not have ego problems as well, so save me the crap. I am not saying that men do not have egos, but in this respect women seem to suffer from a far greater sense of self-importance than men and than is healthy.

[Fragony]

All the hot women in eastern europe are in the strip joints, and they cost you money.

No you fool you have obviously never been to Warsaw or St Petersburg. These dames are pretty, smart, cultured, and desperate for men who don't wake up in their supper.

[bobbin]

I am not saying that men do not have egos, but in this respect women seem to suffer from a far greater sense of self-importance than men and than is healthy.

I pretty much agreed with your post until this last bit.

I don't think there is anything in the universe that comes close to the self importance of the human male.

[Beskar]

No you fool you have obviously never been to Warsaw or St Petersburg. These dames are pretty, smart, cultured, and desperate for men who don't wake up in their supper.

Fragony has a girl in every city.

[Andres]

Actually I posted this not because of my own gf, who is kind of okayish with this. Though she already has some plans to on how our life should be, she even has a set age on when she wants to get married, gets a first born. While I'm more like, hmm what bar should I go to today...? But it's actually because of how I noticed a friend of mine having arguments on how he wasn't comming home with her, even though she was already told long before (and agreed) that he wasn't going home when she got tired.

Oh, that kind of stuff. Meh. That's pretty common. Usually, it's not because that one night where the guy came home later than expected or didn't want to leave. Well, sometimes it is, e.g. when you didn't want to leave because it was "only" 4 a.m. ; maybe it was just a case of him being drunk as hell and she being reasonable. No, Moros, it's not reasonable to be barely able to walk and insist on staying for 4 more hours and then be angry because the pita bar is "already" closed when it's "only" 7.30 am and blame it on your woman because it's her fault you didn't make it to the pita bar before closing time (which was 6.00 am) You know she was right and you were wrong when you no longer remember at what time exactly you came home and who vomitted next to your sink .

Anyway, if your friend is the type of guy who likes to party and his woman can't accept that (i.e., it's an ongoing problem and not just an argument because of a 'rough' night), then they're simply not made for each other.

And I started thinking. It's actually everywhere in couples that the woman has these plans and ideas and a man needs to smile and say yes. Just look at their houses. Who decorated everything, decided what should be where,...? The lucky guys have their own study/garage or something but that's it. And of course they sometimes ask your opinion, but only to give a false sense of democracy.


[/rant]

I don't know which couples you know, but most couples I know, including my wife and I, decide on such matters together. Ok, there are couples where the wife decides everything about decoration and stuff, but that's usually because the guy doesn't care or doesn't have taste. Sometimes, it's better if the guy simply shuts up when colors need to be chosen. Carnaval is good 3 days a year; no need to live in a carnavalesque house 365 days a year. And face it, if it weren't for females, a lot of people would live in terrible looking interiors. Most guys don't care about the kitchen having a 1950 look, as long as it's still functional. Such guys simply need a woman to kick them in the butt so that a more modern looking kitchen gets installed.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I don't think there is anything in the universe that comes close to the self importance of the human male.

Inflated sense of self-importance based on absolutely nothing whatsoever? Definatily male.

Women suffer more from 'I'm really one class better than my current situation suggests, and you are really one class lower than your situation suggests'. This results in women of your social standing thinking themselves two classes above you.

I mean, come on, I'm not one class below you just because I enjoy burping the alphabet in restaurants...

I don't know which couples you know, but most couples I know, including my wife and I, decide on such matters together.

ANDRES IS TEH HOMOSEXAUL HE SHOPS FOR CURTAINS I BET YOU PICKED THE PINK FLOWERY ONES

[al Roumi]

LOL, and I thought the Org was mysoginisitic! Glad you guys are here to shine as a beacon of enlightenment...

[Fragony]

ANDRES IS TEH HOMOSEXAUL HE SHOPS FOR CURTAINS I BET YOU PICKED THE PINK FLOWERY ONES

Curtains? You disappoint me

[Andres]

ANDRES IS TEH HOMOSEXAUL HE SHOPS FOR CURTAINS I BET YOU PICKED THE PINK FLOWERY ONES

Monsieur, I'm a bastion of masculinity* and I DEMAND satisfaction.


* I help cleaning now and then. I cook. I sometimes do the laundry and even iron the clothes (and I enjoy doing it!) Eat that, you "I'm a real man, but ehm, my shirt is wrinkled... Boohoohoohooo, mummy, can you please iron my shirt for me, because I have no clue, boohoohoohoo".

[Fragony]

"I'm a real man, but ehm, my shirt is wrinkled... Boohoohoohooo, mummy, can you please iron my shirt for me, because I have no clue, boohoohoohoo".

Guilty your honour, I get rashes from ironing and all that

[Rhyfelwyr]

I still do the ironing, although I live with my parents still. It's better than other jobs round the house, since you can park the ironing board in front of the TV, I only do the ironing when I know something decent is on.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Thinking your meager set of folk wisdom and anecdotal experience provides you with enough knowledge to make sweeping statements about the personalities of men or women is arrogant.

It's like playing the "guess how many marbles in this jar game" and then assuming you got it right without bothering to count them, except worse.

[Fragony]

Word to that you better count them, women can't be trusted

[Ser Clegane]

I sometimes do the laundry and even iron the clothes (and I enjoy doing it!)

dto - actually ironing isn't too bad - there are not that many "jobs" in the household you can do while watching TV

[Strike For The South]

Everyone seems pretty quick to jump to the "men are just as bad!" quip, but you have to remember that he was never saying that men were perfect, or that they were not egotistical.
I think he has a point (not about all women, but about an alarmingly high number of women from my generation esp) that a majority of women seem to have an attitude that if a guy wants a say in a relationship he is trying to run their lives and they should dump him, and that the guy should just be grateful to get what she gives him. Men, unfortunately seem too desperate to actually stand up for themselves at all, because they know that if they do they will be dumped. Why is it this way? Probably a combination of two factors. For one, feminist teachings of empowerment really make women think that equality is always having their way, and that men should feel lucky to be able to do what they say. Second of all, today's men are sackless and lazy. They have unloaded so much responsibility (taking care of the house, balancing finances, taking care of all kinds of business, etc) onto their wives and significant others that women now have the responsibilities of the private/domestic, the social, and the business realm. This (understandably) makes them feel entitled to making all the choices in these realms. Men are content just to sit on their sofas watching football, or go drinking with friends, and then complain if they are left out of decision making. Girls grow up seeing the examples of their parents, and I think develop a very lopsided view of things.
So in a way it is a problem created by the partners of women, but also to a great extent it is a problem created by an egotistically grand sense of empowerment.
No, that does not mean that men are without faults or that they do not have ego problems as well, so save me the crap. I am not saying that men do not have egos, but in this respect women seem to suffer from a far greater sense of self-importance than men and than is healthy.

Someone has been watching to many sitcoms.

Women and men have the same amount of crazy and while it may manifest itself in different it certianly won't hurt you chances at finding the right one provided you aren't socially crippled.

Which means all of us are SOL

[Vuk]

Thinking your meager set of folk wisdom and anecdotal experience provides you with enough knowledge to make sweeping statements about the personalities of men or women is arrogant.

It's like playing the "guess how many marbles in this jar game" and then assuming you got it right without bothering to count them, except worse.

So it is wrong to make statements based on your observations? Do I have to do a scientific study on everything before I believe it? Even when science studies only what is observed? I am sorry, but I do not see the evil in drawing a conclusion about people based on your experience. My experience with people who I know, have witnessed, have heard about, etc, and from being indoctri educated with the same doctrines that women in college get educated with, confirms my view completely (in fact, is the reason for it). Yes, it may not be universal, but it is my view, and strongly supported by my own experience in life. I am not declaring it to be gospel, but simply stating my view on things, according to my own knowledge, as is everyone here. Isn't that the point of a forum? Why is that arrogant?

And since you have declared me arrogant, I will feel no hesitation in telling you that you are a hypocrite. It is funny that negative stereotypes about men, their intelligence, taste, hygiene, moral character, etc are often spouted out by the same people who jump if someone makes a statement about women (even when qualifying the non-universal character of the argument) and calls them misogynists or simply ignorant/arrogant (with sexism implied). It is impossible to point out differences in the way most people of a sex commonly act if it is in anyway negative to the female sex unless you want to be called a sexist, yet it is perfectly acceptable to make completely sweeping negative statements about the male sex. And what is funnier is the fact that those self-righteous people most times are the most misogynist of all. (all the man-\/\/#0r3s I know who secretly think of women as nothing but dumb pieces of meat, are also the self-righteous twits who in front of other profess to be "ardent feminists" (to quote Sir Humphrey Applebey).)
It is just politically correct garbage, not unlike how it is not only acceptable but common for people to say things like "white men cannot jump", "white men cannot fight", etc, etc, and mostly acceptable to rip on Asians, yet if you made anyone of those statements about a black guy or a Hispanic, you are racist88! (sorry Warman, I couldn't help it. ) If you had that same standard with whites, asians, and men, 90% of all celebrities, politicians, and college professors would be declared racists and sexists.
Sorry for the rant, but hypocrisy really annoys me...as do

Someone has been watching to many sitcoms.

Women and men have the same amount of crazy and while it may manifest itself in different it certianly won't hurt you chances at finding the right one provided you aren't socially crippled.

Which means all of us are SOL

Sorry, I don't watch TV (at all).
Yes, men certainly do have their own problems, and their own ego issues, and while they are identically severe most times, they differ in type. IME at least, this (what I have talked about in the thread) seems very common among women.

[Don Corleone]

Reading through the past 2 pages of (okay, I'll be generous) "discourse" has convinced me of one thing....

There is nothing so simultaneously ignorant and arrogant as the human male when he's not getting enough loving in his nights.

I see a lot of boys here who need to call off their enduring relationship with the enchanting Ms. Rose E. Palmz and get out for what passes as gender mingled social activity in their neck of the woods.

[Vuk]

Reading through the past 2 pages of (okay, I'll be generous) "discourse" has convinced me of one thing....

There is nothing so simultaneously ignorant and arrogant as the human male when he's not getting enough loving in his nights.

I see a lot of boys here who need to call off their enduring relationship with the enchanting Ms. Rose E. Palmz and get out for what passes as gender mingled social activity in their neck of the woods.

lol, what a logical argument Don. /\ See above post.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

@Vuk part 1: It depends on whether we have reason to believe our guesses are worthwhile. But our minds are bad at reaching these kinds of conclusions based on experience. So it's best not to do it.

@Vuk part 2: I said "men or women" not "women".

*******

lol, what a logical argument Don.

I am not declaring it to be gospel, but simply stating my view on things, according to my own knowledge, as is everyone here. Isn't that the point of a forum?

I will feel no hesitation in telling you that you are a hypocrite.

[TinCow]

Reading through the past 2 pages of (okay, I'll be generous) "discourse" has convinced me of one thing....

There is nothing so simultaneously ignorant and arrogant as the human male when he's not getting enough loving in his nights.

I see a lot of boys here who need to call off their enduring relationship with the enchanting Ms. Rose E. Palmz and get out for what passes as gender mingled social activity in their neck of the woods.

QFT. The problems described are caused by personal issues and incompatible couples. They have nothing to do with cliched gender stereotypes which are little more than cultural anachronisms.

[Ice]

All the hot women in eastern europe are in the strip joints, and they cost you money.

This is signature worthy.

[Strike For The South]

Sorry, I don't watch TV (at all).
Yes, men certainly do have their own problems, and their own ego issues, and while they are identically severe most times, they differ in type. IME at least, this (what I have talked about in the thread) seems very common among women.

How can I tell you you're wrong in a way that you will simultaneously accept defeat and save me the warning points?

you quite simply sound pissed off, probably because some bird rejected you. It happens to all of us don't worry the sun will rise tommorow.

Would you care to give some scientific proof on how women became more egocentric? Or will this go the same way as your ground breaking "Girlz don't like me because of my conservative apparence and my white/hispanic skin tone"

I see a lot of boys here who need to call off their enduring relationship with the enchanting Ms. Rose E. Palmz and get out for what passes as gender mingled social activity in their neck of the woods.

I lol'd

[Banquo's Ghost]

Reading through the past 2 pages of (okay, I'll be generous) "discourse" has convinced me of one thing....

There is nothing so simultaneously ignorant and arrogant as the human male when he's not getting enough loving in his nights.

I see a lot of boys here who need to call off their enduring relationship with the enchanting Ms. Rose E. Palmz and get out for what passes as gender mingled social activity in their neck of the woods.

Brilliant.

Welcome back Don. You've been missed.

AGREED!

[Shaka_Khan]

It's not you. Women will cheerfully lie to your face whenever they can, even if nothing is at stake. They see you only as a useful tool to be used and tossed aside when convenient.

At least, that's what they do if you're ugly. If you're hot they'll fawn all over you no matter how poorly you treat them, and why not? They're as deep as sheets of pond scum, why should their objects of affection be any different?

ps i'm bitter

Lol. People will lie in your face, regardless of gender. Women see men as tools? Heh. Men see women as objects to be possessed.

If you're ugly, I'm deeply sorry, but that is human nature, both biologically and psychologically. A woman is not going to go after an unattractive mate, and a man will do just the same. Seriously. If you aren't the best looking you aren't going to get models, (boatloads of money and being the funniest guy ever aside) DEAL WITH IT. The same is true of less than standard lasses, they aren't going to end up with muscle bound Adonises.

It's like listening to a bunch of violins playing at a mass suicide. Cheer up. Generalisation central in here.

Are you a woman, Psychonaut?.....Oops! You're a mod. I understand. Sorry.

My problem is that women are different from each other. So my past experiences with girls don't help me in dating at all. Girls could hate what other girls demand. Meeting them is like walking through a minefield.

[Beirut]

(I'll jump in on this one.)

After spanking my share of ******s, whores, sweethearts, fencepost-dumb bunnies, and intellectual college grads, and now being married ten-years with two daughters, all I can say is...

Womens are nuts.

Ain't it great?

[Shibumi]

I have found that the main problem is that people settle to easily. There are billions of women in the world, yet a surprising amount of people get steady with someone from their work, friendship group, school, country.. and so on..

Took me 30 years and meeting tens of thousands of women to find one that was suitable for me. Sure, I had been dating and sleeping around loads before I met her, but never had a "real" relationship, as with any girl prior to her, there was something that just was not perfect.

And if a girl or guy is not perfect for their partner, the "change game" starts. Women are admittedly better at this little game than men, but men do it too.

Find someone you do not want to change, and who do not want to change you, and you will have a happy marriage.

My friends always claimed my strive for perfection was ludicrous, that the woman I wanted did not exist. Guess I proved them wrong. Our relationship is very stable, whereas my friends who settled have broken up, or are struggling.

So yeah, either break up or stop whining.

And for heavens sake, never be stuck in a bad relationship!