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Thread: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

  1. #61
    Member Member Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge


  2. #62
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Our team has the better pick. Can we get a battle report or something? With screenshots? *drool*
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  3. #63
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Our team has the better pick. Can we get a battle report or something? With screenshots? *drool*
    Absolutely, I'm going to be posting a turn-by-turn report in this thread, with screenshots as they become available (usually a few turns after the action)
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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  4. #64
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    I am subscribed to this thread and waiting eagerly.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  5. #65
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Turn One update:

    - England sent a force across the channel to take French-held Bruges
    - Denmark took Hamburg from HRE
    - Hungary took Vienna from HRE

    First blood TWC! (but there was no opportunity to defend any of these three settlements which were attacked with superior force and could not be reinforced...)
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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  6. #66
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    England will have a hard time holding anything on the mainland if France concentrates it's efforts on that. They are a long ways off of massing the deadly Longbow line units that can hold a castle practically forever. Forsaking the AI nations north of Nottingham may prove to be a bad move, I'm not particularly versed in Stainless Steel (although I'll install it today), not sure how aggressive the AI is.

    The HRE is a beastly power but now that I think about it it can be sandwiched between Hungary and Denmark (as it is evident). Losing Hamburg is not something that is out of the ordinary - Denmark is pretty much forced to take it or stay with it's petty villages in Scandinavia (although SS gives them 3 starting settlements. If this were vanilla M2:TW they could have been wiped out in one blow)

    Denmark's early AP attacking units are scary good, and their archers are very good in hand to hand. However they absolutely suck when attacked with massed ranged units and cheap but plentiful spear line units (AP really shines versus Dism. Feudal Knights and the likes). Denmark will most certainly stack Hamburg well, knowing it's its most viable troop production center that will serve as a launchpad further in HRE territories. This will leave their civilian cities up north vulnerable - if one can get there undetected that is. Perhaps a french boat can sail there unexpectedly? They'll see HRE armies going north by land.

    The more the game drags on, the weaker Denmark becomes, unit wise. Although SS might have changed that?

    Hungary are annoying with their HAs but their infantry is garbage. They cannot storm cities early on versus the HRE, and autocalc will not do their mobile HA armies justice. Stacks of Feudal Knights and Spear line units will autocalc them to death.

    What I can say is that the enemy wanted to box the HRE in so that it cannot help France while England slowly weathers them down. The problem for England, however is that early on France is bigger and richer, and that autocalc does not abuse Longbows as the human player does. The Scottish and (are there Irish in SS?) Irish can also make one hell of a melee for Nottingham as well.

    The HRE is rich enough and it's lands tight enough to be a very tough nut to crack. And the Teutonic Order can and will cut a bloody swathe trough Hungary OR send a ship of it's own to take the Danish town on the Scandinavian peninsula. Securing AI help via diplomacy in the Northern and Central European regions will be key, as a 2 on 2 melee is very fickle.

    The enemy Byzantine Empire is very strong early on, and although a few turns away from the melee in Central Europe, they can come and hit hard. Or they can expand towards the Holy Lands and reach higher money and tech faster. Either way they will be a pain when they come, as they will come in force.

    However the Moors can be both hard to take out (need to go trough France to get there by land, need to convert their lands to Catholicism or risk rebellion) and be a pain in the butt for England who has surely left London and Nottingham undefended (or poorly so). Even if the Moors just put their money towards making a fleet it will still be enough - locking the two English ports that supply the channel will cut off reinforcements towards the mainland, and England doesn't have the economy necessary to support both a strong occupational force in France and have a substantial fleet recruited.

    Denying the enemy team the option to sell diplomacy/trade rights/map information for early cash will be vital. Fortunately England is locked on its island or has to wait for it's diplomat to trudge trough half of Europe to get to any AI faction. By that time they could be severely starved for gold.

    So my advice - France autocalcs it's way to victory versus the inferior English forces (if it's like the RTW autocalc, the unit's stats matter only, not if they are ranged). Perhaps if it can spare a sneaky ship, it does so and sails towards the Danish capital.

    The Moors make an effort to backstab England one way of the two ways proposed.

    The HRE holds out until it can either retake Hamburg (not likely as it's probably stacked trough the roof), autocalc versus the light Hungarian armies or sneak an army past Hamburg and into Danish territories.

    The Teutons help the HRE by either attacking Denmark from the Eastern borders, helping with the siege of Hamburg or going south and splattering Hungary across the planes. That last part is probably not good since the destruction of buildings is forbidden and it will be hard to hold to the territories once the Byzantines arrive.
    Last edited by Myth; 02-18-2011 at 14:55.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  7. #67
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Hey thanks for the feedback! One thing I'd say is that we are no longer playing this game in SS, but instead in KGCM with the hotseat patch where some of the factions have been rebalanced. France and HRE are not as powerful as in SS as far as I can see...
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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  8. #68
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Dang. I even installed SS 6.4 to take a better look. No idea what this other mod is or how it changes the dynamics. England in SS is stronger as they get two extra regions + a better developed York. However their starting stacks are pathetic in the Early period.

    Some points still stand however. England is an island nation and as such can be cut off by virtue of a strong enemy fleet. They cannot feed 10+ cogs and have the money to field an occupational force and a strong assault stack that heads towards Paris or another vital French city. The Teutonic Order can sail towards the Danish towns that are undeveloped and hold off the Danes at the choke East of Anthwerp.

    Can you give some more details or screenshots? More info on that mod and what it changes would be good as well.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  9. #69
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Can you give some more details or screenshots? More info on that mod and what it changes would be good as well.
    You can find the mod forum here at the TWC. There's a sticky thread there that details the special patch for hotseat games that we're using.

    By the way if we have a good experience with this mod I'm planning to use it for grand campaign hotseats here at the Org.

    With regard to screenshots, my ability to post these will be limited by the fact that I only have one faction's viewpoint on the game and also I can't give too much away to the other team who may look here.

    However it is a rule of this game that all battle results be recorded by screenshot, so I will certainly link to those when I do my turn-by-turn update. I'll also post the faction rankings (for what it's worth) and maybe I can persuade the other players to let the admin of the game post a composite map with enough of a lag (probably 5 turns)

    By the way the reason we don't have screenshots for the first turn is that we had to restart and we rushed through the replay of that turn without new screenshots. The old ones are inaccurate because the unit size is now different, so I didn't link to them here.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

    Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.

  10. #70
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Starting positions were 33 territories each. This is the position at the start of turn 2:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 02-24-2011 at 09:42.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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  11. #71
    Mmmm, Antares is tasty! Moderator Alien Attack Champion Nightbringer's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    that is basically unreadable for some reason.. could you maybe paint in the lines?
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  12. #72
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    EDIT: ok those were pointless pics, try that instead

    it's annoying, I resized them all the same on photobucket so they'd sit in pairs side by side but only one of them has done it

    EDIT2: ok that should be better now
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 02-24-2011 at 09:43.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

    Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.

  13. #73
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Byzantium can just afford to build up and come in like a hurricane, while the others fight since turn one. But if you take their capital they're crippled. Not that it's easy to do though.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  14. #74
    Knight of the Crusade Member Thanatos Eclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Charts!!! I don't need no stinkin' charts!

    besides all the good stuff doesn't happen till turn 3 ;)
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  15. #75
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Turn 3: The TWC team desperately grabs land from the AI in preparation for the coming Org onslaught.

    Magdeburg is lost by the HRE to the Danes, abandoned in a strategic withdrawal.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

    Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.

  16. #76
    Knight of the Crusade Member Thanatos Eclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too
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  17. #77
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse View Post
    As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too
    woohoo! nice work!

    I'm going to post an update of turn 4 soon and I'll link to the screenshots in the other thread.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 03-08-2011 at 11:13.
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  19. #79
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Oh I was wondering where all the activity for this game was. It's on the .net side of the battlefield then? I'll read up there.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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  22. #82
    Member Member Incontinenta Buttox's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos Eclipse View Post
    As a bonus for anyone following over here, I sunk a couple of ERE ships this turn. What I haven't told the netters (going to let them figure it out on their own) is, as luck should have it, one of those ships was carrying nearly a full stack army. Looked like some pretty good units too
    Ooooh you rotter!

  23. #83
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    on the .net it seemed that Paris and two other French cities had fallen to England?
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  24. #84
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Yes it seems the English arrived with siege engines this time. I usually wait until the end of the turn to post a round-up so watch this space.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

    Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.

  25. #85
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Angry Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    I've been keeping track of the .net thread but decided to voice my opinion here, least I start a flame war there, though it bugs me to see other non-participants express their opinions there.

    I know some of the .net guys have accounts here and will probably read this, but since I'm not a part of the contest they can take my words for what they are worth.

    Now this was started on Stainless Steel, on which it is impossible to use balistae to open any kind of settlement (they have an "Ineffective against walls" trait right on their unit card). When the game switched out to KGCM the people from .org made a point to ban them. Suddenly - an influx of squabbling and half-wording from the .netters who did not even KNOW one could use ballistae to open walls/gates in vanilla M2TW.

    Whilst all the games I see played here ban ballistae alongside merchant forts, spies and crusades/jihads, it seems the .net was oblivious to this rule. Now, one of their players used ballistae to his advantage, because if you don't know if it's legal, surely the best thing is to use it to make a win-win situation (either keep the conquered lands or learn where the enemy is on the reload). When confronted he said "well, I have spies anyway" as if somehow spies opening doors was suddenly legal.

    And yet the admin for the game has the audacity to say the .org are defending the no ballista rule because it benefits them more some way. In fact, the no-ballista rule would benefit the .org more now that only the .net has recruited them and brought them to the front. I am sure it would have benefitted the .org just as well if they had them from turn 1.

    The spies thing I'm not even going to comment, but i find it odd that the mentality of some of the .netters is "I'll do it if i can get away with it" or "I'll point fingers even though we clearly have an advantage because of the rules disputes and confusion".

    It's funny how the same player who tried to sneak in ballista and spy usage was the one crying for screensots when his armies were routed.

    humph...
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  26. #86
    Knight of the Crusade Member Thanatos Eclipse's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Try not to think about it too much, it's easier that way :P

    In fairness we did stop pursuing the ballista issue when we thought it wasn't going anywhere, at least I did. Guess Tristan just didn't realize :/
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  27. #87
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    I'm glad you posted this here rather than over there. Even so, let's not pursue this line of discussion as it has the potential to be contentious.
    Last edited by phonicsmonkey; 03-29-2011 at 10:17.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

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  28. #88
    Strategist and Storyteller Moderator Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Aye. But you know I'm right.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  29. #89
    Throne Room Caliph Senior Member phonicsmonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Not about this: spies are allowed in this game, you just need two of them to open a gate.

    Any road, as I said it's better not to stir up trouble. We'll do our talking on the battlefield.
    frogbeastegg's TWS2 guide....it's here!

    Come to the Throne Room to play multiplayer hotseat campaigns and RPGs in M2TW.

  30. #90

    Default Re: When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

    Not about this: spies are allowed in this game, you just need two of them to open a gate.
    True.

    And I would rather ballistas than spies.

    I will reply to Myth's post if he wishes.

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