When Worlds Collide: Org vs Net Hotseat Challenge

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Lack of reliable access to a M2TW PC makes me doubtful I'll be able to play a third game ATM. Thank you for the invitation though, I'll check the mod out. Care to point me to it?

Here's the link to the Last Kingdom forum.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=867

The team leader, Danova. is one of the finest modders around. The mod is very close to release now. The final beta is now ready, and I'll be testing it over the weekend.

[Myth]

I say, if the .org wins this game the .net players come here to participate in hotseats :) There's a reward Phonics is passionate about, If i ever saw one :)

I took a look at the mod, it's very appealing to me! Especially if the viking nations worship the Norse pantheon (which they should).

[phonicsmonkey]

Turn 7:

- England captures Paris and Rheims
- Denmark fights back against the TO


Turn 8:
- Moor success at sea for the Org
- The Germans take flight
- France strikes back, taking Caen and Rennes and defeating Prince Richard
- The Danish King defeats the Holy Roman Emperor in battle
- And the German attempt to retake Prague is thwarted


Turn 9:
- The Moors sink an English fleet, drowning the army on board.
- Caen changes hands twice more
- The Danish retake Stettin
- Magdeburg and Nuremburg fall to the enemy. The Holy Roman Emperor is slain.
- A minor skirmish at sea ends with the Byzantines victors.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

Gentlemen and opponents from the ORG.

I am going to begin working on an article for the "Eagle Standard" TWC's in-house publication, about our little campaign. I originally planned to let the campaign progress more before starting this, but thre has been a so much action already that I feel the time is right to start work on this.

So gentlemen, I need your help. specifically how you feel the campaign is progressing from your perspective.

I appreciate that as a .NET player participating in this campaign. there might be some concerns as regard to your plans etc. But I am sure we can work around this.

Phonics, as the .ORG captain. Perhaps you can contact me so we can discuss this in more?

Cheers
IB

[Incontinenta Buttox]

HRE turn 10 is ready...

[Myth]

Wow it seems that Phonics will be eliminated shortly... Denmark and Hungary proved too much for HRE+TO. I suppose the hotseat patch really focuses on cav, otherwise the TO stacks would be able to beat Hungarian ones in a 1:2 ratio.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I think the big thing is that we didn't know this mod, especially how much of a beast England becomes real quickly if unopposed on the isls. Even if the HRE had still been sacrificed it would have been worth it to take out England and secure our backs. At least for my part, if I had realized this at the begining I would have sent troop to England, instead of focusing on securing the HRE's southern flank in Italy.

I'm just hoping to get some good action in Italy in the next couple of turns. The ERE's got a large invasion force in Greece, which should liven things up for me :)

[Myth]

Well I did suggest the moors raise a fleet and drop an army in England. Nottingham is the beating heart of England in any mod I can think of. Take it, and their troop production capabilities are crippled. Since KGCM has buffed archers however, the large archer pools of the English give them a great advantage over their immediate neighbors. Your chance of beating them now is a massive cavalry stack from France but those are expensive...

[phonicsmonkey]

Wow it seems that Phonics will be eliminated shortly... Denmark and Hungary proved too much for HRE+TO. I suppose the hotseat patch really focuses on cav, otherwise the TO stacks would be able to beat Hungarian ones in a 1:2 ratio.

I have made massive strategic errors in this game. It's not over yet though so I'll save the analysis for later.

[Myth]

With screenshots? And graphs and pie charts? :D

[Mordrorru]

I think the big thing is that we didn't know this mod

This.

I'd be really interested in a replay, with new factions, once this round is over, whoever wins, now that you know the mod, if any wanted. (How's that for a sentence?)

But this one's still not over yet, and I know you still have a fair lot of troops.

My question is how there has been so little action between the two most powerful empires in the game, the Moors and the Byzantines. I've barely seen anything but a few ship battles from down there!

Since KGCM has buffed archers however, the large archer pools of the English give them a great advantage over their immediate neighbors

It did sort of, but not really. The point of the hotseat patch was to make cavalry the best units but the most expensive, followed by foot melee units, followed by archers. That's the basic outline anyway. Obviously sucky cavalry (like English Hobilars) can still be beat by average non-cavalry units, etc.

But foot archers are still at the bottom of the totem pole, I'd say. They've just been buffed from "completely worthless" to "not completely worthless."

[Myth]

Hmm... In the KGCM hotseat details thread over at the .net I read that the effectiveness of both foot and horse archers has been buffed. Do the longbowmen still have the AP trait? I'm pretty sure they do, but I haven't really played KGCM so I can't put money on that.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

My question is how there has been so little action between the two most powerful empires in the game, the Moors and the Byzantines. I've barely seen anything but a few ship battles from down there!

Don't worry ;), the line has been drawn and the forces of Southernearth gather, each watching tensely as the hordes of their enemy gather across the pond.

[Quirl]

Don't worry ;), the line has been drawn and the forces of Southernearth gather, each watching tensely as the hordes of their enemy gather across the pond.

Kill kill kill, Thanatos. ;)

I think the biggest problem was not having me on your team. :D

[phonicsmonkey]

I have a few turns worth of updates to catch up on but for now here is the Turn 14 standings:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

TWC:



Org:

In short we're getting smashed.

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry for the lack of updates.

The awful truth is that we have been pwnd by the other team and have conceded the match. Our shame will echo down through the ages...

[Myth]

I demand a rematch and earnest satisfaction, sir!

[Myth]

(moved from another thread where i had posted a link to this group http://https://forums.totalwar.org/v...hp?groupid=146- phonicsmonkey)

One thing I must say is that you should have listened to Askthepizzaguy and gotten England as first pick. England is very strong in any mod except for maybe vanilla. There's a reason I chose it for CoG! :)

edit: wow.. he changed his own mind. Or you restarted? Not sure how you ended up with the Holy Roman Target as first choice for the final game. BTW Phonics will there be a rematch with the TWC guys? We don't have Tristan but Thantos, Cecil and Nightbringer are still here, and yourself as well. Perhaps other veterans too? A lot of people are MIA right now. I'd gladly consult or play as well.

Somehow they pulled a fast one on you guys with KGCM, though I still think that one of the best mods to play this on (hotseat patch included). It's messed up AR system has to be tested though, that's not the normal AR system of vanilla or SS or kingdoms.

Regular AR behaves as I described here. Unit order in the stack is indeed important though units with lower defense take the massive casualties over those with large defense. KGCM HS patch has messed with the AR system. Here is the information. So basically you guys did a lot of discovering the wheel when the info was already out there (I read this back when the game was still going on but it was too late to help you by that time)

BTW if there is to be a rematch it can be played in Stainless Steel instead, though that does not boast KGCM's HS patch "rebalanced factions"

[phonicsmonkey]

Our biggest mistake was applying the same strategy to KGCM that we had developed for SS 6.3. Our faction picks in the first iteration were sound and we were doing great when that silly movement bug came along and ruined the game. Sure there was a long way to go but I'm confident we would have given much better account of ourselves than we ultimately did.

Unfortunately the restart co-incided with our losing and having to replace players and we were all busy in RL such that we did zero research on KGCM, a mod none of us had played.

Anyway, enough excuses.

Personally I don't like the KGCM mod as it suffers from that love of England that afflicts too many M2TW players. France and HRE are ridiculously nerfed in comparison. Also I don't see the sense in creating a hotseat starting position where several factions can lose settlements to their neighbours on the first turn before they even have a chance to play.

These are just personal opinions of course and no doubt coloured by my unpleasant experience in this game.

I would certainly support a rematch (maybe with fought battles this time?) if you guys wanted to set it up but I would have to decline the chance to play in it.

[Myth]

Fought battles, SS 6.4 Late campaign sounds best then.

[Nightbringer]

That's what I would go for.

[Cecil XIX]

I'd be for it as well.

Edit: Fours sign ups in an hour! Truly a sign from Providence!

[phonicsmonkey]

I count three (remember I'm out) - but we could suggest a 3 vs 3

[Myth]

No, we will get Thanatos up in here to smash some TWC heads! I shall PM him now.

[LooseCannon1]

@phonicsmonkey I feel that SS's England is also overpowered now. With the fortress barracks you get 2 types of billmen and 3 types of heavy infantry. The lowest range can create archers that anyone else gets on the 2nd level. Then they get longbowmen with greater numbers per unit and range. From cities they can get urban milities that are armor-piercing and cavalry bonus. Located on a corner with no land bridges and an AI unable to launch sea invasions makes them an island fortress. All you have to do is overrun Scotland and you're set. They also get an economy too powerful for its time period.

[Myth]

England in SS is kind of overpowered (other than because It's an island nation etc.) because it has too many settlements. In CoG I took down Scotland by turn 3-4 and then all of the isles, the two towns in Ireland as well, by turn 6-7. That kept me even with Silver who beat the Fatamids! In essence England gets two factions worth of starting provinces basically for free.

Forget about Fortresses in hotseat however - no one is ever getting one unless we fast forward for 100 turns under AI control like we did in MoT. If you start at turn 1, be it Early or Late, any hotseat will be far gone before anyone but an AI can get to Fortress level.

The Italian militia are better, but the archer pools for England are awesome, though you must understand that those do jack in an AR game.

[LooseCannon1]

Actually, in SS Late Era, most factions start out with a fortress somewhere. Portugal, Genoa, Cumans, Teutonic Order, Byzantium, both Russians, Denmark, Norway, and the Mongols are the factions that don't get one to start. Not that the Mongols need one and Byzantium can try and rush Corinth to get that one. Also Toulose and Pamplona(rebels) start as fortresses. Yes, there's a lot of fortresses on first turn of Late Era. Also, I've been able to get "fortress upgrade" messages for Bern and Canakkale in 2 different hotseats by turn 32. Canakkale will be my 4th fortress (in that game) if I don't capture Varad from the Hungary player first.

[phonicsmonkey]

I think England is OP in most mods as well as vanilla, mostly because it's an island but also because of the troops it gets and the easy AI factions it can take out early.

At least in SS its local neighbours France and the HRE are reasonably powerful themselves.

[Myth]

Wait I confused Fortress with the last level of a castle to be attained, the one that requires 22500 population (basically for SS if you're human - all the farms + a 10 chiv general with an architect). Was it called a Citadel or what?

[Nightbringer]

yes, citadel is the last