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Thread: So Whats Next?

  1. #91
    Member Member Zarky's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Would love to see a TW which covers the American Civil War. The amount of area to conquer would be quite large. Only downside, aside from that CA is not great with gunpowder units, is that there are only two factions. But there would be a lot of unit veriaty and techs to explore.

    A next R:TW is probably on the agenda, though.
    American Civil War could be an expansion pack to next 18th-19th century TW if there's enough demand for it, hardly not a stand-alone. If gunpowder issues are fixed it could be very interesting option. I think map size might be an issue if you want to include all of US, since eastern coast was much more important.

    I want to see M3:TW also, but not before R2:TW.
    Homo Sapiens non Urinat in Ventum - the wise man does not piss against the wind.

  2. #92

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Personally I think M:TW3 would work the best. Sure there are a lot of factions in S:TW2, but they're not half as distinct as Europe in Medieval times. Europe had 4 major religions and a much greater unit roster to choose from.

    Would love to see a TW which covers the American Civil War. The amount of area to conquer would be quite large. Only downside, aside from that CA is not great with gunpowder units, is that there are only two factions. But there would be a lot of unit veriaty and techs to explore.

    A next R:TW is probably on the agenda, though.
    You may have had 2 factions at that time,but rember there were states that served both sides,and any of them could become nuetral or serve each's others side.

    It wasn't the whole of amercia,mostly most of it was texas and some other thing.

  3. #93

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Not a expansion pack:(.

    A game,stand alone.

    It would do much better,and put the Napoleon and Shogun format in it,could combine very well.Mix in's empire battle controls.Get NTW's realistic cinematic battles inside the battles,and get Shogun 2 for the campaign and water,and for movement.It could do well for banners, although that would do well with your generals carrying flags in the NTW format.

  4. #94
    Member Member Rothe's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    The Game of Thrones is starting as a TV series on HBO...

    That is something I'd love to see done as a TW title.

    In fact, you could probably make a TW: fantasy title that could integrate other fantasy titles as expansions with somewhat different units and campaign map but the same engine.
    Total war games played so far:
    STW, MTW, MTW:VI, RTW, MTW2, ETW, STW2

  5. #95
    Member Member Mumu Champion Prodigal's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Rome2...I mean haven't I had to wait long enough? I was sure that the mind-numbing, bug addled, every games the same, ETW was going to be RTW2. Am so tired of guns, and that's one of the few era's where they won't rear their ugly heads, although I do seem to remember a horse drawn machine gun unit. MTW would be groovy, in about 6 years, it's been flogged to death, MTW, MTW:V.I, MTW2, MTW2:Kingdoms.

  6. #96

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Rome 2 - if only so they can do it right. The whole Jullii/Bruttii thing was a mess. So if they can get the senate right they can do the Punic Wars, or Gaius Marius vs the Barbarians, or the Sullan civil war. Or they could do the fall of the Empire, Caesar vs Senate. Or Caesar's Gallic wars. Or Claudius's invasion of Britain. Make them scripted campaigns like Kingdoms.

    China:TW would be a complete disaster. Almost no recognition in the west, with a bunch of incomprehensible (to western eyes) names and places. Shogun works only because everyone has heard of ninjas and samurai and they are cool
    .
    I like ACW:TW idea, that could be interesting, but I wonder how well it would sell outside of the US

    The greek city states would I imagine have to be called "300:Total War" in order to make it marketable.
    "I request permanent reassignment to the Gallic frontier. Nay, I demand reassignment. Perhaps it is improper to say so, but I refuse to fight against the Greeks or Macedonians any more. Give my command to another, for I cannot, I will not, lead an army into battle against a civilized nation so long as the Gauls survive. I am not the young man I once was, but I swear before Jupiter Optimus Maximus that I shall see a world without Gauls before I take my final breath."

    Senator Augustus Verginius

  7. #97

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi View Post
    Rome 2 - if only so they can do it right. The whole Jullii/Bruttii thing was a mess. So if they can get the senate right they can do the Punic Wars, or Gaius Marius vs the Barbarians, or the Sullan civil war. Or they could do the fall of the Empire, Caesar vs Senate. Or Caesar's Gallic wars. Or Claudius's invasion of Britain. Make them scripted campaigns like Kingdoms.

    China:TW would be a complete disaster. Almost no recognition in the west, with a bunch of incomprehensible (to western eyes) names and places. Shogun works only because everyone has heard of ninjas and samurai and they are cool
    .
    I like ACW:TW idea, that could be interesting, but I wonder how well it would sell outside of the US

    The greek city states would I imagine have to be called "300:Total War" in order to make it marketable.
    I disagree with you on China TW.China has a more complex history than the other countries.Have you seen the Chinese war films?They gain massive money in the west.And what's more they're far better than western films.Chinese names sound really cool as do Japanese names.And they put in more historical accuracy than the western ones.China and Japan history's is rich,so is India,please do not refer these countries as 3rd world and that's that.They were far more advanced than europe during history and its a fact.

    Shogun works only because everyone has heard of ninjas and samurai and they are cool

    Clearly you know nothing of Japan,you think they're just like samurai and ninja.There are actual people living in China and Japan, perhaps you don't know there were actual people during that period of 1545,and many of them were just in danger in that time.You have not seen the film The Last Samurai(2004)?

    But I agree with you on rome 2,they should combine all the historical mods and make it like Shogun 2.
    Last edited by Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout; 04-30-2011 at 18:06.

  8. #98

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    , I wasn't talking about my personal feelings, I was talking about how they would be received by the wider western gaming community. I never called Japan or China 3rd world, I never said they were backward or inferior to Europe. You may know and understand Chinese names, hence why you think they are cool, but to the average westerner they are confusing. I know Japan is more than ninjas and samurai - my "JSDF" folder on my hard drive contains over 9000 images FWIW and here's another clue, check out my name ;) but to the average western gamer the Takeda Shogunate means nothing, they do however know that ninjas and samurai are cool, and thats why Shogun was commercially viable. Please stop applying knee-jerk reactions, insulting me - people were and are living in Japan and China? Really??? - and confusing my knowledge and beliefs with those of a wider audience.

    No, I haven't seen a Chinese war film, I've never even heard of a single Chinese war film, no matter how good you may say they are. They might be popular amongst the chinese community, they might be popular with you, but the average man in the street has no clue about any part of chinese history. You want a China:Total War? You best hope for Mongols:Total War, because the average western gamer has heard of Ghengis Khan.
    Last edited by econ21; 05-01-2011 at 21:58.
    "I request permanent reassignment to the Gallic frontier. Nay, I demand reassignment. Perhaps it is improper to say so, but I refuse to fight against the Greeks or Macedonians any more. Give my command to another, for I cannot, I will not, lead an army into battle against a civilized nation so long as the Gauls survive. I am not the young man I once was, but I swear before Jupiter Optimus Maximus that I shall see a world without Gauls before I take my final breath."

    Senator Augustus Verginius

  9. #99

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi View Post
    , I wasn't talking about my personal feelings, I was talking about how they would be received by the wider western gaming community. I never called Japan or China 3rd world, I never said they were backward or inferior to Europe. You may know and understand Chinese names, hence why you think they are cool, but to the average westerner they are confusing. I know Japan is more than ninjas and samurai - my "JSDF" folder on my hard drive contains over 9000 images FWIW and here's another clue, check out my name ;) but to the average western gamer the Takeda Shogunate means nothing, they do however know that ninjas and samurai are cool, and thats why Shogun was commercially viable. Please stop applying knee-jerk reactions, insulting me - people were and are living in Japan and China? Really??? - and confusing my knowledge and beliefs with those of a wider audience.

    No, I haven't seen a Chinese war film, I've never even heard of a single Chinese war film, no matter how good you may say they are. They might be popular amongst the chinese community, they might be popular with you, but the average man in the street has no clue about any part of chinese history. You want a China:Total War? You best hope for Mongols:Total War, because the average western gamer has heard of Ghengis Khan.

    Well.the Takeda Shogunate,since shogun 2 has been released ,I mean why not refer to that name.I seriously should recommend you some great chinese war films,You'll enjoy it and get it a bit of knowledge then.Where am I insulting you?

    You want a China:Total War? You best hope for Mongols:Total War, because the average western gamer has heard of Ghengis Khan.
    Mongol total war doesn't sound bad either.
    Last edited by econ21; 05-01-2011 at 21:58.

  10. #100
    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi View Post
    Rome 2 - if only so they can do it right. The whole Jullii/Bruttii thing was a mess. So if they can get the senate right they can do the Punic Wars, or Gaius Marius vs the Barbarians, or the Sullan civil war. Or they could do the fall of the Empire, Caesar vs Senate. Or Caesar's Gallic wars. Or Claudius's invasion of Britain. Make them scripted campaigns like Kingdoms.

    China:TW would be a complete disaster. Almost no recognition in the west, with a bunch of incomprehensible (to western eyes) names and places. Shogun works only because everyone has heard of ninjas and samurai and they are cool
    .
    I like ACW:TW idea, that could be interesting, but I wonder how well it would sell outside of the US

    The greek city states would I imagine have to be called "300:Total War" in order to make it marketable.
    Hello Mount Suribachi, its been a while since I saw you posting. Good to see you again.

  11. #101
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda Shogunate View Post
    Amercian Civil total war.
    The ACW doesn’t fit the format of TW games because there are only two factions. Even if you implemented possible European intervention it is problematic. Adding Indian uprisings only gives you very weak factions best handled as NP factions or given to the original player factions.

    There is interest in the era in Europe but it is more of a niche market.

    I do think there is a sizable market for the ACW and The War of 1812 in the TW format. It could be handled well as an add-on or large DLC for NTW or some future game, I think.

    It could also be popular in the MP community if they implemented some kind of theater command feature for team play.

    All the same, as much as I would love to play something of those eras, I doubt we see such a game from CA.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  12. #102

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    China would fit perfectly. Something like OSG's Warring States (out of print) fits the bill; clear factions, clear goal, defined but generous geographical area.

    Unification of Italy. Only question here would be when exactly to start the era.
    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 05-01-2011 at 23:26.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  13. #103
    Member Member Rothe's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    The problem is really that once you get into a very specific time and location frame, the greater public will not really have a lot of connection to it - I feel that China and Italy would be very interesting personally, but I know they would be selling a lot less than Rome or Shogun. That is the real problem with game development: niche games might have great appeal for a small group of players, but they will never happen as a "full title".

    I still think that a China game might be doable as an "expansion" type of a deal, since you could use the engine pretty much as is, and just make the factions and troops for the time frame you want.
    Total war games played so far:
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  14. #104

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothe View Post
    The problem is really that once you get into a very specific time and location frame, the greater public will not really have a lot of connection to it - I feel that China and Italy would be very interesting personally, but I know they would be selling a lot less than Rome or Shogun. That is the real problem with game development: niche games might have great appeal for a small group of players, but they will never happen as a "full title".

    I still think that a China game might be doable as an "expansion" type of a deal, since you could use the engine pretty much as is, and just make the factions and troops for the time frame you want.

    Thats what people were saying when Shogun 1 was about to be released.They thought it was just some stand alone game.When SHogun 2 was in promotion everyone knew of it.

    Its the same with China,you're forgetting they've had loads of history,so its easy to pick a period and make it into a game.

  15. #105
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda Shogunate View Post
    When SHogun 2 was in promotion everyone knew of it.
    Yes, but a lot of people complained about the choice because they wanted Rome 2. They didn't know or care about Japanese history, but loved the Roman Empire and all that came with it. Some threw temper tantrums and vowed not to play Shogun 2. It is their loss as Shogun 2 is an awesome game. But the point is, that unfortunately from a Western perspective, virtually everyone has hear of Rome. Very few know of Japan's or China's history.
    This space intentionally left blank

  16. #106
    Member Member Nowake's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Oi there,
    My two cents
    The best choice for the next Total War game is a sino-centric theme. Title should sound something like
    Mandate of Heaven Total War
    Yes, but a lot of people complained about the choice because they wanted Rome 2. They didn't know or care about Japanese history, but loved the Roman Empire and all that came with it. Some threw temper tantrums and vowed not to play Shogun 2. It is their loss as Shogun 2 is an awesome game. But the point is, that unfortunately from a Western perspective, virtually everyone has hear of Rome. Very few know of Japan's or China's history.
    All right.
    What I will argue is:
    a) Our (Western) mixed reaction to a sino-centric theme is not all that important to Creative Assembly.
    b) Our (Western) preferences should be ignored for the good of Creative Assembly.

    a) Our (Western) mixed reaction to a sino-centric theme is not all that important to Creative Assembly.
    Why? Because, of course, the game would finally be marketable to the asian public for once, a public more numerous and with a proven proclivity for PC and console gaming.
    And yes, I presume you will now point the obvious: Shogun is an asian-themed title and it is not making waves there. And I shall point out what I thought should be just as obvious: Shogun is a japanese-themed historical game.
    I.e.
    - it cannot be efficiently advertised anywhere in south-east Asia outside Japan. Doing the marketing for Shogun in South Korea or China is identical to trying to win over israeli gamers in Tel Aviv with a product about the Reunification of Germany. "Wouldn't your friend David here want to imagine himself in the boots of a prussian junker?" The atrocities comited by the japanese during the first half of the twentieth century in the whole Far East, especially in countries like Korea and China, are identical to the ones comitted by the germans against the jewish people, with the difference in policy in regards to the end result. Extinction versus eternal enslavement (of inferior races). Should the chinese have been a minority or should the germans have been surrounded by jewish countries, that one probably wouldn't have existed either. The whole south-east Asia still reels from the civillian massacres comited by the japanese, and tensions run high at every opportunity. And I'm not speaking here of events like the huge international scandal which surrounded the visit of a japanese temple comemorating their fallen by the japanese prime minister, which took months to defuse. No, there are strong national uproars even for minor issues such as the use of chinese actresses in the movie "Memoirs of a Geisha", which inflamed the press in both countries for months and caused the chinese government to cancel the release of the film completely. You simply can't attempt to sell japanese history in south-east Asia.
    - its one Far Eastern market, Japan, is already overwhelmed by samurai-based entertainment. The media runs movies on the period 24/7, manga abound, festivals commemorating men like Takeda Shingen etc. are commonplace, re-enactment is an art and totally facilitated by the exquisite preservation of a plethora of items dating from the period. You can still have a katana crafted in Japan after all by traditional smiths. You don't really see that in Europe, do you? And anyway, more importantly, games regarding samurai abound as well. The competition is cut-throat.

    Now, China and Korea on the other hand have not yet developed an electronic entertainment industry themed around their history much, especially military history. Mandate of Heaven Total War would not really have a term of comparison really.


    b) Our (Western) preferences should be ignored for the good of Creative Assembly.
    The initial Shogun was not a game aimed at immersing us in Japanese culture. They wished to present an engine and the mechanics for an attempt at recreating military encounters and they needed a good setting. What they aimed to achieve was solid gameplay.
    Once they picked up their second setting, eventhough their intentions were the same, Creative Assembly stumbled upon a new audience; reenactors, board-game types, miniature-soldiers collectors and what not. They slowly discovered the series and flocked to it, engaging along the way every one of those narrow-minded history buffs who still see the world through nationalistic eyes and would want to play a game where their ancient or medieval ancestors get to crush their traditional enemies on their way to dominating the continent.
    And the developers drifted slowly, corrupted by the simplicity of the business model that was opening up to them. What gameplay, what multiplayer, all you have to do is abort every year a semi-functional piece of software that contains shiny armor models copied from history albums. It does not even have to have an exhaustive list, you can be sure it will get modded like crazy until it will showcase all three types of belts thieves in Scotland were said to have had in some apocriphal chronicle from the olden days.
    And here is why I think it would be better for Creative Assembly to ignore this public's wishes somewhat and go for a sino-centric title. Multiplayer is now easy to set up and brings a ton of cash if done right. You do not need a recognizable setting if the game is good and it is compatible with being played in public. Millions of people play and watch Starcraft, and I can assure you they had heard nothing of the protoss, terrans or zerg until they were invented, as opposed to having heard about chinese history. Because Starcraft has superb gameplay and is extremly entertaining to watch. And if the Total War series has tremendous potential in any area, that's its potential to entertain a passive public through it's graphics and realistic recreation of battlefield conditions. All it needs is solid gameplay and investment in a decent Battle.net like multiplayer system. Remember that BBC programme using the TW engine, think it was called Time Commanders?
    And which country has developed a business model for presenting a PC game as a spectator sport? Korea; with the original Starcraft mind you. And the gamers of which other country watched that evolution avidly, partially participated in it and are demographically a superb target? Yep, China.
    Refocus on gameplay, treat multiplayer seriously for once and one gains access to a demographically immense audience of experienced asian gamers who were never yet serviced with products appealing to their own countries' history yet.


    Oh and in my opinion Shogun 2's expansion should focus on the Imjin War (the two invasions of Korea between 1592 and 1598). Superb theme from all points of view, including the arsenal of weapons and ships employed by both sides, from Hwach'as to Korean advanced composite bows (superior to japanese bows), breech-loading cannons, panokseons and Turtle Ships and what not.


  17. #107

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoshi View Post
    Yes, but a lot of people complained about the choice because they wanted Rome 2. They didn't know or care about Japanese history, but loved the Roman Empire and all that came with it. Some threw temper tantrums and vowed not to play Shogun 2. It is their loss as Shogun 2 is an awesome game. But the point is, that unfortunately from a Western perspective, virtually everyone has hear of Rome. Very few know of Japan's or China's history.
    Watch this film ,its chinese .The Founding of a repbulic.Very good film

  18. #108

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    The ACW doesn’t fit the format of TW games because there are only two factions.
    IMO that doesn't rule it out at all. A large number of factions doesn't make a game, nor does diversity of units. It would actually make a very challenging, well balanced campaign and would only need to involve the two main factions - of course CA won't do it for commercial reasons, because today's TW fans demand the usual "more factions/units/provinces" and it would percieved as a niche, etc.

  19. #109
    Member Member MadKow's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Although i would welcome a revisitation of Rome, or some other ancient period, i think a well done fantasy setting might open new ground. I remember a couple of old warhammer games, Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen, were what came closer, as far as i know to what Total War achieved. So yes, a good popular fantasy franchise mitgh be interesting.

  20. #110

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nowake View Post
    Oi there,
    My two cents
    The best choice for the next Total War game is a sino-centric theme. Title should sound something like
    Mandate of Heaven Total War

    All right.
    What I will argue is:
    a) Our (Western) mixed reaction to a sino-centric theme is not all that important to Creative Assembly.
    b) Our (Western) preferences should be ignored for the good of Creative Assembly.

    a) Our (Western) mixed reaction to a sino-centric theme is not all that important to Creative Assembly.
    Why? Because, of course, the game would finally be marketable to the asian public for once, a public more numerous and with a proven proclivity for PC and console gaming.
    And yes, I presume you will now point the obvious: Shogun is an asian-themed title and it is not making waves there. And I shall point out what I thought should be just as obvious: Shogun is a japanese-themed historical game.
    I.e.
    - it cannot be efficiently advertised anywhere in south-east Asia outside Japan. Doing the marketing for Shogun in South Korea or China is identical to trying to win over israeli gamers in Tel Aviv with a product about the Reunification of Germany. "Wouldn't your friend David here want to imagine himself in the boots of a prussian junker?" The atrocities comited by the japanese during the first half of the twentieth century in the whole Far East, especially in countries like Korea and China, are identical to the ones comitted by the germans against the jewish people, with the difference in policy in regards to the end result. Extinction versus eternal enslavement (of inferior races). Should the chinese have been a minority or should the germans have been surrounded by jewish countries, that one probably wouldn't have existed either. The whole south-east Asia still reels from the civillian massacres comited by the japanese, and tensions run high at every opportunity. And I'm not speaking here of events like the huge international scandal which surrounded the visit of a japanese temple comemorating their fallen by the japanese prime minister, which took months to defuse. No, there are strong national uproars even for minor issues such as the use of chinese actresses in the movie "Memoirs of a Geisha", which inflamed the press in both countries for months and caused the chinese government to cancel the release of the film completely. You simply can't attempt to sell japanese history in south-east Asia.
    - its one Far Eastern market, Japan, is already overwhelmed by samurai-based entertainment. The media runs movies on the period 24/7, manga abound, festivals commemorating men like Takeda Shingen etc. are commonplace, re-enactment is an art and totally facilitated by the exquisite preservation of a plethora of items dating from the period. You can still have a katana crafted in Japan after all by traditional smiths. You don't really see that in Europe, do you? And anyway, more importantly, games regarding samurai abound as well. The competition is cut-throat.

    Now, China and Korea on the other hand have not yet developed an electronic entertainment industry themed around their history much, especially military history. Mandate of Heaven Total War would not really have a term of comparison really.


    b) Our (Western) preferences should be ignored for the good of Creative Assembly.
    The initial Shogun was not a game aimed at immersing us in Japanese culture. They wished to present an engine and the mechanics for an attempt at recreating military encounters and they needed a good setting. What they aimed to achieve was solid gameplay.
    Once they picked up their second setting, eventhough their intentions were the same, Creative Assembly stumbled upon a new audience; reenactors, board-game types, miniature-soldiers collectors and what not. They slowly discovered the series and flocked to it, engaging along the way every one of those narrow-minded history buffs who still see the world through nationalistic eyes and would want to play a game where their ancient or medieval ancestors get to crush their traditional enemies on their way to dominating the continent.
    And the developers drifted slowly, corrupted by the simplicity of the business model that was opening up to them. What gameplay, what multiplayer, all you have to do is abort every year a semi-functional piece of software that contains shiny armor models copied from history albums. It does not even have to have an exhaustive list, you can be sure it will get modded like crazy until it will showcase all three types of belts thieves in Scotland were said to have had in some apocriphal chronicle from the olden days.
    And here is why I think it would be better for Creative Assembly to ignore this public's wishes somewhat and go for a sino-centric title. Multiplayer is now easy to set up and brings a ton of cash if done right. You do not need a recognizable setting if the game is good and it is compatible with being played in public. Millions of people play and watch Starcraft, and I can assure you they had heard nothing of the protoss, terrans or zerg until they were invented, as opposed to having heard about chinese history. Because Starcraft has superb gameplay and is extremly entertaining to watch. And if the Total War series has tremendous potential in any area, that's its potential to entertain a passive public through it's graphics and realistic recreation of battlefield conditions. All it needs is solid gameplay and investment in a decent Battle.net like multiplayer system. Remember that BBC programme using the TW engine, think it was called Time Commanders?
    And which country has developed a business model for presenting a PC game as a spectator sport? Korea; with the original Starcraft mind you. And the gamers of which other country watched that evolution avidly, partially participated in it and are demographically a superb target? Yep, China.
    Refocus on gameplay, treat multiplayer seriously for once and one gains access to a demographically immense audience of experienced asian gamers who were never yet serviced with products appealing to their own countries' history yet.


    Oh and in my opinion Shogun 2's expansion should focus on the Imjin War (the two invasions of Korea between 1592 and 1598). Superb theme from all points of view, including the arsenal of weapons and ships employed by both sides, from Hwach'as to Korean advanced composite bows (superior to japanese bows), breech-loading cannons, panokseons and Turtle Ships and what not.
    I agree with you on what you say

  21. #111

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    My vote is for China and Korea! In fact you could tie all three in Mongols etc.
    While you were studying military leadership, I was reading Tom Sawyer.

  22. #112
    Member Member Den of Earth's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    How about an Imperial Total War (The World 1845-1910) with at least a dozen major playable factions. There could then be a Kingdoms type add on with the Crimean, American Civil War and the Bismarck Wars. I miss the famous regiments, being able to occupy an outlaying building and heal a unit without a general, occupying buildings other than my castle. I thought NTW was heading in the right direction and STW2 kind of kicked back to earlier type play. If they don't go back to the 1800's then RTW2 or certainly a Middle Earth Total war would both be great.

  23. #113
    Member Member Zenicetus's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    I have a feeling Rome 2 will be the next one. CA has to make money to keep the series alive, and that's the title that will sell the best, especially with all the collateral expansions and mods (Ancient Greece, the Near East mods, the later Christian empire, etc.). It's just too rich an area to ignore, as much as I'd like to see other things like China/3 Kingdoms, or a very early bronze age game.

    The Civil War (or later) doesn't work for reasons mentioned, like just 2 factions, no unit variety. It also means dug-in positions with long-range rifle fire, which is boring (IMO). I like the eras where people are still rushing together and stabbing each other with pointy sticks.

    I don't think they'll ever do a fantasy game, even though the underlying engine would be great for it. With a historical game they don't have to invent the background or the unit design. The game is already "balanced" because armies co-evolve that way through history. With a fantasy title, they need a background story, unit designs from scratch, and a magic system designed from scratch. That's not easy, especially when a company doesn't want to pay for a pre-existing IP like D&D. Look at Elemental: War of Magic, and how that game got trashed for having a lackluster background world and magic system. With a historical game, all that background stuff and unit balance is already taken care of.
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  24. #114

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Den of Earth View Post
    How about an Imperial Total War (The World 1845-1910) with at least a dozen major playable factions. There could then be a Kingdoms type add on with the Crimean, American Civil War and the Bismarck Wars. I miss the famous regiments, being able to occupy an outlaying building and heal a unit without a general, occupying buildings other than my castle. I thought NTW was heading in the right direction and STW2 kind of kicked back to earlier type play. If they don't go back to the 1800's then RTW2 or certainly a Middle Earth Total war would both be great.
    ITW would do well,but then it would be to confusing.SHTW2 was the right part.

  25. #115

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenicetus View Post
    I have a feeling Rome 2 will be the next one. CA has to make money to keep the series alive, and that's the title that will sell the best, especially with all the collateral expansions and mods (Ancient Greece, the Near East mods, the later Christian empire, etc.). It's just too rich an area to ignore, as much as I'd like to see other things like China/3 Kingdoms, or a very early bronze age game.

    The Civil War (or later) doesn't work for reasons mentioned, like just 2 factions, no unit variety. It also means dug-in positions with long-range rifle fire, which is boring (IMO). I like the eras where people are still rushing together and stabbing each other with pointy sticks.

    I don't think they'll ever do a fantasy game, even though the underlying engine would be great for it. With a historical game they don't have to invent the background or the unit design. The game is already "balanced" because armies co-evolve that way through history. With a fantasy title, they need a background story, unit designs from scratch, and a magic system designed from scratch. That's not easy, especially when a company doesn't want to pay for a pre-existing IP like D&D. Look at Elemental: War of Magic, and how that game got trashed for having a lackluster background world and magic system. With a historical game, all that background stuff and unit balance is already taken care of.
    Let me tell you this.When Rome was released,it contained a whole load of (With that I mean the historical accuracy)You had wrong units,wrong banners,and never was rome divided,there were no juli,bruti,scipi stuff.Rome 2 will have the same,so unless they collabrate with the EB and EU teams,Your pathetic Rome 2 can be written off.Rome had unrealistic units,it was too much stuff loaded in,come on,I mean Seleucid Legionaries?before the romans had them?What kind of thing is that?
    Last edited by econ21; 05-15-2011 at 15:45. Reason: Flowers blooming from organic compost

  26. #116

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenicetus View Post
    I have a feeling Rome 2 will be the next one. CA has to make money to keep the series alive, and that's the title that will sell the best, especially with all the collateral expansions and mods (Ancient Greece, the Near East mods, the later Christian empire, etc.). It's just too rich an area to ignore, as much as I'd like to see other things like China/3 Kingdoms, or a very early bronze age game.

    The Civil War (or later) doesn't work for reasons mentioned, like just 2 factions, no unit variety. It also means dug-in positions with long-range rifle fire, which is boring (IMO). I like the eras where people are still rushing together and stabbing each other with pointy sticks.

    I don't think they'll ever do a fantasy game, even though the underlying engine would be great for it. With a historical game they don't have to invent the background or the unit design. The game is already "balanced" because armies co-evolve that way through history. With a fantasy title, they need a background story, unit designs from scratch, and a magic system designed from scratch. That's not easy, especially when a company doesn't want to pay for a pre-existing IP like D&D. Look at Elemental: War of Magic, and how that game got trashed for having a lackluster background world and magic system. With a historical game, all that background stuff and unit balance is already taken care of.
    Plus the Civil War would do well,so what if's there 2 factions?I'd like to control the confederates and claim the USA.You could add other factions as well.No unit varitey...They did have loads.

  27. #117

    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Like people play a game to learn things, to play a game so they dont have to read a book about the subject anymore... Historical accuracy can never be done because history itself isnt factual at all but interpretational, done and written by the historian. Like the series or movies of 'Rome' are realistic, most of the things/events which supposed to 'teached things' in that series are already been revised (like the famous scene with Caesar under the blood of the bull). And even then, if you want to achieve the historical accuracy which is now the judgement of the historian of the past, in a game based on the roman empire, you will need to have like 1 faction, rome in this case, who just should have units which cant be countered, no factions against rome ever made chance, especially not after Marius reforms. I know you will now come up with tales of Mirthiades and stuff, well, in the long term, no other country could challenge rome because rome could only survive on war, while others could survive without it, and so even after a lost battle you coultn win a war against rome, because in Romes logic, a war was simply never over before a war was won.

    A game based on our historical vision would really be dull, luckily CA didnt based their games on historical accuracy but on playablity, besides rome you had other playable factions which really even had a chance against rome ingame, a real simulater would have 1 Highly OP faction, Rome of cource. A real NTW would be a france which coulnt be countered on land by any faction, only beatable on sea, but not beatable on land. A game about Ghenkis Khan with the best units around because the same story of Rome counts for the Mongols, they just werent beatable, when they lost it was mostly there own greed our strategy mistake. History is a good inspiration for a game, but shoulnt be build totally around it. Its fun you see some things in STW2 which looks like history of Japan, but i am almost sure no one want that, we multiplayers wants 'balance', whatever that word means.

    Rome was fantastic, the atmosphere it had was fenomonal. Personally i loved alexander expension even more, although it didnt had a good multiplayer, the single player was really hard.
    Last edited by RTKAbu; 05-15-2011 at 17:41.

  28. #118
    ridiculously suspicious Member TheLastDays's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenicetus View Post
    I don't think they'll ever do a fantasy game, even though the underlying engine would be great for it.
    You mean RTW wasn't a fantasy game?

    Well inf act I disagree with the post above me... Look at EB, that's a really fun game, played that A LOT more than vanilla RTW and it strives for historical accuracy... and no, ROme was not unbeatable... a small change in events might have changed all the outcomes so historical accuracy doesn't mean you have to follow "history on rails"
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  29. #119
    Member Member Zenicetus's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda Shogunate View Post
    Plus the Civil War would do well,so what if's there 2 factions?I'd like to control the confederates and claim the USA.You could add other factions as well.No unit varitey...They did have loads.
    There was unit variety within each army, sure -- infantry, snipers, cavalry, artillery, etc. But not between armies, since they were originally a single army with the same military tactics, organization, and technology before the breakup of the Union. It was a case of two essentially identical armies going up against each other. For me, that just isn't as interesting as the kind of asymmetrical warfare we could have in RTW and M2TW. For example, learning how to fight with horse archers vs. European heavy knights. You had to learn two very different sets of tactics there, instead of pitting the same types of armies up against each other. YMMV, of course, that's just a personal preference.
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  30. #120
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: So Whats Next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeda Shogunate View Post
    No unit varitey...They did have loads.
    Infantry with rifles or smoothbore muskets, cavalry with some variety of firearms (almost always employed while dismounted when facing enemy infantry), and artillery, both rifled and smoothbore.

    The artillery ranges would be too long for TW as we know it. Massed shock cavalry charges, one of the favorite tactics among TW fans, had disappeared. Firepower was so potent that the war ended pretty much like WWI. I can't see the ACW working at all. 1850 is about the end of the line for TW type battles. It could be done, but the tactical options available would be reduced from earlier eras.
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