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Thread: Org Issues and Improvements

  1. #31
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Good Job, that is fixed.

    However, the 'tab' part is unreadable (the ones for info, awards, etc)
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    However, the 'tab' part is unreadable (the ones for info, awards, etc)
    Done.
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  3. #33
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
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  4. #34
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    There is an odd issue with markup that the forum generates for forum listings (forumdisplay.php?$forum_id-name/page$page) when it contains moved threads. For some reason the forum software injects ETX (0x3) characters in the markup for the thread summary and tooltip. This suggests a more serious bug with the forum software because ETX is a non-printable ASCII control character dating back to the olden-days of teletypes and it is not supposed to surface in normal data.

    To illustrate what I mean, the forum markup for a moved thread looks like (where ETX is the single character 0x3 rather than the string "ETX"):
    Code:
    <div class="threadinfo" title="ETX">
      <!-- stuff -->
      <div class="threadmeta">
         <p class="threaddesc">ETX</p>
         <!-- stuff -->
      </div>
    </div>
    For example if you go to https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forum...prune=-1&pp=30
    And break out your hexeditor, use it to search for the char sequence of "Tactic" you will find:
    I am not sufficiently intelligent to understand what this means.


  5. #35

    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Short version: it's exceedingly unlikely that this ETX (End-of-Text) character is *supposed* to be there. It's more likely the result of a bug and/or data corruption. The character dates back to when computers didn't have displays and you needed to print out the response of commands on paper much like a receipt: its purpose is to signal that the end of a response message is reached.
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 04-08-2011 at 00:36.
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  6. #36
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Short version: it's exceedingly unlikely that this ETX (End-of-Text) character is *supposed* to be there. It's more likely the result of a bug and/or data corruption. The character dates back to when computers didn't have displays and you needed to print out the response of commands on paper much like a receipt: its purpose is to signal that the end of a response message is reached.
    What is this indicative of that I need to be concerned about?

    As for data corruption, some of the posts on this forum have been ported over from different forums, some running software other than vbulletin, about two or three times. Could this be related to really old database information from ported posts/forums?


  7. #37

    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    It could be that data in the database is bad, it could be that the forum is generating garbage. I'm betting on the latter one as it seems to occur for every deleted thread but then again the thread samples I saw are fairly old. The code to worry about is probably near the vicinity of the SQL queries run on the forum database to fetch a list of threads or a single thread. There should also be a check to see if the thread has been deleted nearby because this only seems to occur on deleted threads.

    To check if it is the database you could try a SQL query on the first post of a given thread (for instance the deleted threads in the example forum listing given), or alternatively if the thread summaries are stored in the database try those instead. Something like:
    Code:
    SELECT * FROM `test` WHERE path LIKE UNHEX('03')
    So if the forum is generating garbage you may want to complain to vbulletin, however if the database is bad, you'll know how late it is.
    - Tellos Athenaios
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  8. #38
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    What about to involve new player more?

    I see whats going on at com or twc and I miss these kind of people here.
    Maybe the entrance is too much? I dont know, I just see the difference, at least for S2 I see a handful old player filling the forum.

    I spoke with Tosa about a video-CMS side, it can be easy added and is an amazing way to get attention. the current video "tread" is far from good, its a bad way to get many vids involved, you will loose overview too easy.

    As i said, there are plenty of CMS templates out, which work like a charm for many other sides. It also should get big button on top of the page, not just a section somewhere.

    THis forum has tons of forens, tons of sections... while its logical and good way to sort it, it generated a very bad overview for new people.

    I think in a certain direction, if i were new, i would want a few things first. Actual im interested into s2 SP and MP, this should get pushed a lot more, ensure people have one easy click to get to the action. I also dont think that this ever will work, as long people have to do some steps to get to certain treads/forums.

    Where are the tourneys? Where is the discussion for the tools I asked for? What is going on behind the scene?
    The org is an old place with many memories, I love it. But it lost contact to the new player, the new "community".

    Im not even sure, what exactly you want, but for me, I miss the contact to all those guys who try a TW game online the first time!

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Thanks for the suggestions. The staff are actively discussing improvements to the CMS, our appearance and attractiveness to newcomers, tournaments etc.

    One thing: what tools did you ask for?
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  10. #40
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by therother View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions. The staff are actively discussing improvements to the CMS, our appearance and attractiveness to newcomers, tournaments etc.

    One thing: what tools did you ask for?
    Well, I actual was deep into this matter with Tosa already, so I try to explain it in a short way here:

    I have some experience with organizing tourneys, you can still see here: www.kocmoc.de

    We had to make endless lists and write a lot down, back at that time I already had one idea, how to make a Tourney more fluid.
    What I want is, a system like you see on Worldchampionships, it looks like this: http://de.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/...hes/index.html

    Actual it would be a nightmare, the chatrooms are devided its very laggy and a tourney with more than 100 people involved would take weeks to finish.
    If we would use such a "gametable" the whole system would lay in the hands of the player itself.

    The table should have a startsetup, where we write the names in, this cant be changed from anyone.
    Now, the player play vs each other and there will be a winner, now the loser will leave and dont care anymore, while the winner write his name in the next window.

    If there is a problem, the "loser" contact a gamemaster and we will watch the replay! (In old days we got all replayes and had to check everything, which was some hard work)

    This way, the winner would play the other winner and than the system keeps going.
    At some point someone has to wait, since the other guys need a bit longer... anyway, the system will move on its own, with a very high speed.


    Im sure, you understand my base idea here. We could split it up and set the quarters and finals to one weekend. I want to get 2 spectators in the finals, who stream i life on Xfire.

    thats some short overview.

    Koc

  11. #41
    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    The site does not appear to correctly clear my cookies. When i press "logout", I at first appear to be logged out, but returning to the Org I am once again logged in without having actually logged in.

    Using Chrome by the way.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Tosa installed this, although I'm not sure exactly what he intended to do with it. Reading its features though, I think it might be what you are after for arranging a competition.
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  13. #43
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Well, the problem today is the ingame communication, once a tourney did start. The setup is easy, since everone know who to play, the second step is already a problem, since you will need a lot of time to communicate. My suggestion would exactly solve this step and make it more fluid.

    If you get around 100-200 player (lets say 1v1), than you would need without such a tool at least 3 weekends.
    Rather 4.

    The challenge is, to get something done in 1 day, with finals the other day.

    The problems are huge, the current chat/foyer makes it impossible to get some good communication especially with all the crashes and drops....
    The only way to overcome it would be to use a different chatsystem, but this generate instantly new problems, since half the people wont have that and need to install it.

    If you make the communication with such a chat, you have to install that here at the org as well.

    Imo we need such a tool i suggested and an own chatsystem. With the chatsystem we could "install" the different groups and get people in that.


    My point is clear, we need some tools to ensure that many games are played in a short time. Reduce the waiting times and let solve most things by the players itself.


    Koc

  14. #44
    Member Who am i?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Hello

    Could you not simply use a web IRC channel and something like this? (example tournament provided):

    http://challonge.com/pot1
    Challonge is free, can randomly seed, can seed, can upload replays, can do multiple forms of tournaments (elim and double elim etc).

    Shogun must be launched through steam, overly has web access, easy to get web IRC, works in steam browser, no downloads needed, simple web address.
    Last edited by Who am i?; 04-11-2011 at 12:07.

  15. #45
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Kocmoc View Post
    Well, the problem today is the ingame communication, once a tourney did start. The setup is easy, since everone know who to play, the second step is already a problem, since you will need a lot of time to communicate. My suggestion would exactly solve this step and make it more fluid.

    If you get around 100-200 player (lets say 1v1), than you would need without such a tool at least 3 weekends.
    Rather 4.

    The challenge is, to get something done in 1 day, with finals the other day.

    The problems are huge, the current chat/foyer makes it impossible to get some good communication especially with all the crashes and drops....
    The only way to overcome it would be to use a different chatsystem, but this generate instantly new problems, since half the people wont have that and need to install it.

    If you make the communication with such a chat, you have to install that here at the org as well.

    Imo we need such a tool i suggested and an own chatsystem. With the chatsystem we could "install" the different groups and get people in that.


    My point is clear, we need some tools to ensure that many games are played in a short time. Reduce the waiting times and let solve most things by the players itself.


    Koc
    Do you mean something like Teamspeak or Ventrilo?


  16. #46
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    Do you mean something like Teamspeak or Ventrilo?
    I dont think that TS or Vent will be a big help, while most people can write english, many have a hard time speaking it.
    I speak about chatsystem, there are cms (or how its called) out, where you can enter your name, get into the chat and than choose one of the created rooms.

    So I speak about writing communication, which also could be documented, what will be quite hard with spoken words.

    If you go with a KO-system, you have to make starting groups with 8 player involved (just example) It would look like this:

    ROOM 1

    Player A vs. Player B
    Player C vs. Player D
    Player E vs. Player F
    Player G vs. Player H

    In old days, we made one room in the foyer for this called "ROOM 1", the first step communication was easy...in the end you had these 8 players in this particular room.

    The winner of the matches played each other, so in total there was 3 turns with 1 winner. (actual this was moderated by 1 person in each of these rooms).
    With the tool I asked for, this could be given to these people and they would autosolve it, no moderator needed, quick communication.

    Well, Im pretty sure, everyone did understand it by now, so i stop here.

    Koc

  17. #47
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Why can't you just use the existing IRC channel for that? We've got an embedded program that you can access from the top bar of the forum itself, and it's effortless to create new channels for whatever purpose you want from within that.


  18. #48
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    Why can't you just use the existing IRC channel for that? We've got an embedded program that you can access from the top bar of the forum itself, and it's effortless to create new channels for whatever purpose you want from within that.
    Yes, that can be used. Its fine.

    The problem I have, which is pure subjective, is that many things at the Org are pretty hard to find. There are tons of extras everywhere, endless forums, treads, but a very low good structure. For me, its too much, I admit, that I didnt saw that there is an IRC chat at all. I also doubt, that many use it.


    I have a clear Idea about how something has to look, but again, subjective.


    Working on a system, which has base "problems" will always end in some halfway solutions and on the other hand, Im sure, most people like it as it is right now.
    From a PR-POV the whole "Org-system" looks dusty and old. The main page is probably not used by many, most people will surely get to the forum directly.
    Thats something you can check quick, by looking at the stats.

    This is a tactical direction, basic ideas about how something has to work. I run tons of sides, based on CMS system and a handful sites handmade. I halfway (I got programmer for that) have an idea how CMS work and what you can do with it. Thatswhy i suggested the Youtube-vid CMS side.

    Fact is, from my business oriented POV, this side needs a heavy remake. If I had to "sell" it, I would make it completely new and implement the forum at some point.
    Just a lot less fractured, with less treads/forums. But of course, thats actual in your hands. Im just sharing my ideas and offer my help.

    Same goes with Google and some ceo, the placement is bad, while you got the Clans and dont use the power, TWC got probably less Clans, but seems to use it!
    Its all about the definition, what you want to get this place too.
    In german I say to these kind of places "Sammelsurium", its a collection of many things which are not used at all or just halfway.

    I miss the fiction, the big idea behind it, apart from being a side about a certain matter.
    It needs a think-tank, a group or a person who has the big ideas.

    Why there isnt a tourney yet?
    Where are the tools?
    What are the plans?

    I see tons of admins here, some I know, some not (which isnt a problem at all). I see tons of treads and posts, but look at the amount and where people post the most!
    Fact is, that the current TW game has very low numbers of posts and treads, almost no real input at all. Go there and read it.
    I see complaining, but very low content, people rather speak about how bad the game is, than sharing ideas about tactics.

    I have the deepest respect for Duck, but I dont see him bringing MP-content or real input here. Now that might be my wrong idea about what an admin has to do.


    My point is, you have a lot more posts in other section (which has nothing to do with current TW game), than in the S2-sections.
    Its clear and shows the problem, look at com or TWC, there is the life, there are people who play the game, the action, the traffic, the questions....

    This place was Nr.1 at the times, as it was all about the game! Now its far away from the old days, since its not about the game anymore (not in the same amount).
    Most player are not here, you dont do interviews with player, you dont prepared the vid-section, you dont got X-fire ready.

    You dont have moderators who go online and stream stuff or make videos. I want to see the action, but you cant deliver!
    With tons of moderators here, there should be 7 guys, where each of them record a "top-ranked" game per day and make it shown here.
    BUMP!

    The top players, play 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 and you bring that each day. Holy Moly! Thats something people want to see, how the top guys battle each other.

    Same goes for the tourneys, where on earth is the Org Tourney?
    Why we dont hear about it? Is there something in work already?
    Whats so hard to organize that? Its not too hard and it wont take you 4 weeks (since release) to get the first tourney going.

    Tosa´s dead brought up many problems, Im aware of it. Still, its about time, that you guys get content done here. Working on structures is one thing and important, no doubt.
    To get the move and actual start important new things, is another story.

    I love this place, dont get me wrong, I like all those helpful guys here.
    Its just that you got the power to get things done and I cant see it. My heart is bleeding, if I see this slow endless needing business here.


    Koc

    PS: Dont get mad at me, I really love you all ;)

  19. #49
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Kocmoc View Post
    The problem I have, which is pure subjective, is that many things at the Org are pretty hard to find. There are tons of extras everywhere, endless forums, treads, but a very low good structure. For me, its too much, I admit, that I didnt saw that there is an IRC chat at all. I also doubt, that many use it.
    We're aware of this issue and we've already made some small structural changes and are very open to many more. If you've got specific ideas about what we should do to improve the structure, please do post them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kocmoc View Post
    From a PR-POV the whole "Org-system" looks dusty and old.
    We are currently working on a completely new default skin for the website, which (IMHO) looks a lot better than anything we currently have. This takes time though, so it's not going to be online tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kocmoc View Post
    The main page is probably not used by many, most people will surely get to the forum directly.
    Thats something you can check quick, by looking at the stats.
    I agree, but that CMS use is largely a content issue and we're working on ways to increase content generation, with several specific projects already in the works. One of them includes what will be the best guide to TWS2 on the internet. Content generation cannot be done exclusively by the staff though, we need to have the members to contribute a lot as well. As such, we are going to do our best to encourage member-driven content generation and give members access to any and all tools and resources that would help them in those regards. The system hasn't been formalized yet, so there's no public information on how to go about it, but I would expect information about the new system in the very near future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kocmoc View Post
    PS: Dont get mad at me, I really love you all ;)
    Trust me, your post is viewed positively, not negatively. We need passion and a desire to get things done. I promise that real, substantive changes are coming and that they will be noticeable. Please do keep pushing us and pointing out the flaws with the Org, as it helps us keep moving forward.
    Last edited by TinCow; 04-11-2011 at 16:23.


  20. #50
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    I try to give something back to this place, by working on the MP-guides, Im not doing this alone, so thanks to everyone who did help me out!
    Im doing this, because I always did love this place and the game, old player will remember my "Train-camps" back in STW. I did that almost each weekend and showed pretty new guys some basics, today thats a lot easier with youtube and replays.

    If you need help, Im glad to help out, I have experience with Tourneys and a clear Idea about how it should be done.
    I can say, that I got quick help with a small or big problem here! I couldnt upload stuff and you solved it for me, thanks!


    Many things I listed are based on what you guys are planing. I just can bring some ideas up, apart from that you need a definition about what you need.
    Im dont just speak, I do something, if i complain somewhere, I bring solutions as well or work on something. Im sure you guys work hard and Im also sure, that things cant get changed in a short time. Good things need some time.


    I just pointed some things out, X-fire and the vid section "Game of the day" - featured from ...... Can be a way to attract people.
    There is the CWB and the CWC, both could be powered by the Org. Use that, bring the big games, let people vote about the games they want to see as video.

    I can surely make one or two of these video, but there is menpower needed. Some small organization.
    Maybe your base structure is a bit clustered. There should be (thats how I tend to work in real) some groupleader and some small groups, who get stuff done.

    The video of the day is some strong feature. You just need to change the CMS for this.
    Give the main-page some meaning, less information, but more important information.

    Clear and easy rider, cut all the stuff which isnt used.


    Im sure you got some hardcore guys, who know how to work with CMS. Thats not that hard to do.... Im not the guy who need to tell you this anyway...


    How about different languages? Im as german player, I know people who only speak german, but dont speak a single english word.
    Im not sure how much this could get used, but since im active on some german boards as well, I can you ensure, that the content there is extreme bad.

    Guides as example can be translated, videos is the same.

    Again, its hard to speak about this all, without to know what you are already planning, so i might just repeat stuff you are working already.

  21. #51
    Guest Member Populus Romanus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    May I suggest a system similar to the TWC's Content Staff, whose job is solely to manage events and the likes?

  22. #52
    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Populus Romanus View Post
    May I suggest a system similar to the TWC's Content Staff, whose job is solely to manage events and the likes?

  23. #53
    Guest Member Populus Romanus's Avatar
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    Question Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk View Post

  24. #54
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    I just saw the announcement for the new mobile style and that is something I wanted to request sooner or later anyway, it will take some getting used to because of the different layout but seems to work very well and load very fast on my iPhone.

    However, since it's for the small screen and the tight bandwidth, I would like to request/suggest/mention two possible additions, starting with the less important one.

    - ability to collapse forum sections, a minor issue since they're rather small anyway but it still took a bit of scrolling through sections I don't go to anymore to get down to the Tavern.

    - jump to new post - button on the forum view, this is a vital one, especially when you're on the go and loading times can be a bit long or a thread has more than 20 pages and you have no idea where it was the last time you looked at it, on the normal forum skins you have to zoom in quite a bit to reliably click it as well so for the mobile version it should be of sufficient size, it's one of my most-used buttons on the whole forum and would be really nice, if not vital, to have in the mobile version.



    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  25. #55
    Research Fiend Technical Administrator Tetris Champion, Summer Games Champion, Snakeman Champion, Ms Pacman Champion therother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Try lightweight2, it has jump to post. This is also now publicly available (previous one was restricted to staff). Not sure about how to do the forum collapsing. Will think on it.
    Last edited by therother; 04-12-2011 at 10:47.
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  26. #56
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by Populus Romanus View Post
    Be patient, that question will be answered in the very near future.


  27. #57
    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Since Monk is dark blue then I guess he is someone whose job would be organize "events and the likes". Am I right or am I wrong?

  28. #58
    Research Fiend Technical Administrator Tetris Champion, Summer Games Champion, Snakeman Champion, Ms Pacman Champion therother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    You would be right.
    Nullius addictus iurare in uerba magistri -- Quintus Horatius Flaccus

    History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren't there -- George Santayana

  29. #59
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Thanks, the new one works quite a bit better with the ability to jump directly to new posts.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  30. #60
    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Org Issues and Improvements

    Quote Originally Posted by therother View Post
    You would be right.
    And where is my reward?

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