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Thread: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

  1. #211
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Poulp' View Post
    After a long moment searching Steam's settings for "permission group", I finally found it on the top of this very page.
    Steam?

    Access given. You can find there an internal version 1.99.6.
    Last edited by DaVinci; 07-21-2011 at 19:31.
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  2. #212
    Pincushioned Ashigaru Member Poulp''s Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    I know, I wasn't thinking straight at the time.

  3. #213

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.

    STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out

  4. #214
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerX5 View Post
    Hey Divinci I have a question about updates to this mod in the distant future.

    STW2 is relatively new for a total war game, following the series pattern CA is probably going to add more expansion packs to game for a few years. I know that you've been trying to finish this mod, but are going to keep it updated for expansions? For instance the Sengoku Jidai unit pack that recently came out
    See my recent post in the "CA Patch Updates" thread to the Sengoku Jidai unit pack.

    Everything else is open.
    TWC Wiki: List of TW Modding Contributions 2005-2011
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  5. #215

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.

  6. #216
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Geppenguin View Post
    Is it possible for you to nerf/remove the AI buffs on the campaign map? Human players have to deal with the (now much more difficult) task of balancing economy and reduced unit replenishment, while AI faction get free units even if they are in deficit (if I'm not wrong, this has always been so for Total War), resulting in massive armies. The auto-resolve is also pretty screwed up, as it doesn't take fortifications into account very well. Auto-resolving an assault on a castle is always much much better than playing it out. I'm playing as Uesugi, turn 45 I own 2 provinces and have 2 vassals, while the Ikko-Ikki have 6 provinces and are marching on me with 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.
    Hello and welcome.

    Your points:
    - The AI gets no free units, there is no indicator in the codes for that, also i never observed that. Exception is the Ashikaga faction (Kyoto), Shogunate.
    - Autoresolve battle is in this regard - fortifications - not moddable.

    marching 1.5 fullstacks of ashigaru + 2 units of monks.
    ... try to "slaughter" their 2 Monks units, and then try to rout their Ashigaru's.

    Ikko Ikki: They might get some regions due to rebellions (and with this also units), what you see (the 6 regions owned) is not a result of their "superior" units or massive recruitment, they might loose some regions again within the campaign vs. other (stronger) AI.

    In the whole: S2R+ is not made to make things really easier for the player ;)
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-05-2011 at 19:43.
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  7. #217

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.

  8. #218
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Geppenguin View Post
    I know it shouldn't be easier, but I do think that the AI gets some form of financial boost. They never have to deal with deficits and even one province minor clans eventually raise near fullstack armies (even if they are mostly ashigaru). The fact that the AI doesn't lose many troops in auto-resolve also means that the slower rates of replenishment are less punishing on them.
    The AI gets no financial boosts, the player gets financial penalties as per difficulty setting Hard and higher, you can choose Medium, then you'll have a far, far easier play in this regard (no financial penalty, but even financial help vs. AI, iirc.).

    Please, can you provide us with the "fact" that AI looses always less men than the human player with a detailled description of the situation(s)?
    I absolutely have not such special experiences.

    Btw., which difficulty are you playing? You know you can adjust your battle difficulty besides the camp difficulty in the preferences file?

    All in all, the player has way more chances to make a better play than the AI, just because the TW AI wasn't ever and is also in S2 not the best one could wish ;)
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-07-2011 at 04:25.
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  9. #219
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Version 2.0 released.

    For the ones who have purchased the recent DLC Jidai Unit Pack content: Completely customised to S2R+'s design (balancing).
    And many other updates (see changelog since 1.99.5 for the ones who applied at last 1.99.5).
    TWC Wiki: List of TW Modding Contributions 2005-2011
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  10. #220

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    Im a new member here in this site, and I joined because of DaVinci's wonderful mod. I am a fan of Darth, and been using his works from the recent total war games, and I compared your mods for S2TW and I liked urs the most. Thank you for enhancing the gameplay of the most anticipated and best pc game ever. well, of course congrats to Darth as well.

    I have just downloaded the S2r 2.0 and going to try it later. Im using these mods as well -- namely
    -->
    Alternative CC
    Blood mod
    BUC mod
    Extended campaign
    unit variety
    Radious's No Sashimono mod
    No Projectile trail

    I hope there are no bugs or issues. :)

    I didn't put the realm divide mod because it might not be compatible with your mod. I was wondering if you also changed the issue about the realm divide.

    Ive read from some forums that ur newest ver. have the samurai archers ammo to 3, havent seen it tho, but if it is, Is there a way to increase it to 20? also the naginata units are not that useful because of the sword units that have better melee skills and the same armor as the naginata. ( talking about hte S2r 4.00 ) I was hoping that sword units now would have less armor so that archers could kill them and have the users to use naginata which have higher armor to go against archers, (it's just my idea im not really sure if its correct) lastly I think the General units in the older versions are very strong that yari units cannot kill them, it seems unrealistic.

    Hope I could hear from you, Congrats again for your wonderful mod. :)

  11. #221
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    S2R+ is way different from S2R.

    S2R+, to your points:

    Samurai bow have 3 arrows, because they represent a standard Samurai (besides the Yari Samurai). Vanilla (and many mods) present this kind of unit wrong, as archer-skirmishers.
    You can change this by yourself with the PFM tool* (see TWS2 mod workshop), file land_units_stats, check the colum "ammo", there.

    * PFM 1.6.6 (1.6.5) has access to all my land_units_stats files. Except for the Jidai DLC Unit Pack file calling "UP1_land_units_stats" there (which is locked as for CA's patch7 update, not compatible), i was able to change that only with a workaround tool offered by davidlallen.

    Sword Samurai represent to a most part close retainer Samurai, very elite (they are very rare), Naginata Samurai have usually slight better armour and more charge, and just a anti-cav bonus - every unit has his purpose, but Samurai (the standard Samurai) have all a very similar skill, but S2R+ has many special and faction-specifc units with specific skill, of all branches.

    All spear (if yari or naginata) wielding units can kill Gen/BG units in S2R+, and every other cavalry units.

    I recommend to try S2R+ 2.0 as it is, a full campaign (or more), and then judge afterwards.

    Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-07-2011 at 16:16.
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  12. #222
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    I have just moved a few recent posts to the according thread (Install Issues).
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  13. #223

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post
    Of course, one could make some ongoing unit balancing changes (although the battle mode balancing is already very consistent), but for S2R+ i don't intend to make it a never-ending-story, v2.0 is meant as final. Perhaps very slight balancing corrections can follow in a patch-update, maybe if something annoys me horribly when i playtest again ;)
    All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)

  14. #224
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    There will be an update, some day still in this year ;) ... but nothing major anymore, bit finetuning/balancing for some certain units.
    Plus necessary "bugfixing" (not crash-fixing is meant, as i'm sure the mod is stable), if something appears to be too odd for the majority of the team members and players, ie. this is in particular the army radious on the campaign map, where i'm personally in a mere 49:51 thinking for this item (51 stands for 'remains as is'), it'll be a democratic decision.
    And a 'maybe' for this update is, that i still look to adjust the starting diplo for the Oda-Tokugawa-Imagawa relations.
    In principle that update runs then under 'patch' of the final build, just corrections.
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-09-2011 at 16:53.
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  15. #225
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    Short-info: Some global balancing is on the way for the patch on S2R+ v2.0.

    Playtesting 2.0 deeper shows that too much rebellions happen in some campaigns (in my experience it depends on the chosen faction), normal and Ikko rebellions, which hurt major factions a bit too much. And especially Uesugi is somehow incapable to keep its gains.

    In result following factions get slight, but working balancing adjustments:
    Buffing - Uesugi, Mori, Chosokabe, Oda
    Nerving - Ikko, Takeda

    This, besides global balancing to reduce slightly rebellion factors (main factor, which shall help esp. Mori and Chosokabe, but also Oda).
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-11-2011 at 15:58.
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  16. #226
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Release & Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GShock View Post
    All right you can go on holiday now that you released 2.0 but if you tell me your path with modding S2 stops here, sorry I don't believe you. :)
    You have been right ;)

    Patch version 2.4 uploaded.
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-18-2011 at 08:30.
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  17. #227
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Patch version 2.5 uploaded.
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  18. #228
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Patch version 2.6 uploaded.
    TWC Wiki: List of TW Modding Contributions 2005-2011
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  19. #229

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?

    p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home

  20. #230
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerX5 View Post
    I know I mentioned cannons a while ago, but I've still have yet to use them in the campaign, mainly because I never accept Nanban trade. According to the historical info about cannons in the sengoku period japanese gunsmiths were making their own cannons towards the later part of the 16th century. Can you make cannons recruitable at arsenals? Also i rarely see any AI faction have gunpowder units above ashigaru tenpo, do you notice this too?

    p.s. thanks for keeping up your dedication to this mod! I've put in over 200hrs in the game (and still haven't beaten it once) and I still feel like its getting bigger, better, and more complete. C.A. made a fine house no doubting that, but you are making it a home
    Never played so far, that the Samurai Teppo becomes available.

    Yes, i have just made two different cannon units: One nanban (import, nanban quarter), one japanese (arsenal), both need though the kanabukama building to ensure they are really rare and late; for the next update.
    Last edited by DaVinci; 08-22-2011 at 18:15.
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  21. #231

    Default Can't build Post Roads??

    Hi there.

    We started our first campaing with the realism mod (Oda). But we already face a misterious problem: We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.

    Why is this????
    We don't see any further restrictions or arts we need. Please help!!!!

    Rycalawre

  22. #232

    Default Re: Can't build Post Roads??

    What version are you playing?
    Are you sure the S2R+ pack is the only file you have in the data folder? (possible conflict with other mods?)

  23. #233
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't build Post Roads??

    We can't build Post Roads. It says: You cannot build this at this time.
    Post Roads need arts Todofuken and Equal Fields researched, and of course the according money.

    If it doesn't work there in your install, then you must have a bug in your install of whatever sort.
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  24. #234

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    As this mod is aimed to reflect a realistic experience I would like to make some remarks about army composition. The severe restriction in Samurai recruiting really bugged me. It is of course true, that during Sengoku Jidai the Ashigaru became more and more prominent and their role in special weapon squads (namely, archers, arquebus and spearman) was very important. However, looking at different accounts of troop composition and battleorders the Samurai were still the backbone and main fighting force, especially in the vanguard, whilst Ashigaru were considered support troops. As an example, Shimazu Iehisa´s personal guard would consist of : 456 dismounted and 130 mounted samurai, 300 Arquebus, 200 archer and 200 spearman (Ashigaru)+ another 300 or so purely support troops like shield or flag bearers.
    So, while armies would have a high percentage of Ashigaru, a huge chunk of them would not be fighting troops, but support. Furthermore Spearman would mainly be used for defensive purposes, protecting the ranks of Ashigaru Archers from enemy cavalry.

    Part of the problem is ofcourse the whole system of tactical engagement in Shogun 2, which doesn´t reflect Japanese tactics. Drawing troopes in one big line and engaging with spearashigaru while trying to outflank does not seem very authentic.

    I also believe that having different troop sizes already reflects good for the historic troop composition (even if you have 50/50 ashigaru samurai in units, you would have many more ashigaru if you counted heads)

    It really bugged me, that I could only recruit yari ashigaru in lategame, which leads to having european like battles, with pikeman engaging opposing pikeman instead of being used for defencive purposes, it is also highly unlikely that in case of a siegeattack those poor yari ashigaru with 4meter and longerg pikes would have to scale the castlewalls because of a lack of samurai to do that (how would you carry a 4,5 meter spear while climbing a steep slope and being shot at, i wonder.....)

    My conclusion: For realisms sake I would still allow for decent numbers of Samurai troops, whose variety in appearance is well reflected in different weapon types but at the same time would put stronger emphasis on Ashigaru missile troops, especially late in the period there would be huge ammounts of Arquebus deployed. The use of Yari Ashigaru however is a more ambiguous topic and as it is done in the moment doesn´t reflect samurai warfare but much more the european way of engagement where knights have alredy been rendered obsolete after 1500.

    Thats my opinion of the matter, no offence intendet :)

  25. #235

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    The problem of unit capping is of no easy solution but at any rate I personally think the samurai unit numbers are perfectly fitting.
    As far as I understand the mechanics of S2, you can't impose a cap on a building or a province but it must be imposed "beforehand" at the clan stage. So you select a global pool where each clan has a limited number of each unit type and then it's up to the player or AI to expand the domain so that more troops become available because of specialty buildings allowing them.

    It does seem pretty unrealistic that you can recruit an ashigaru naginata where the blacksmith is and you can't recruit him at the bordering province... however, if you look closely at the unit stats, you will see the yari ashigaru inaka are so crappy that they lose even to the light cavalry. This means it's up to you to build a balanced army and put each unit where it should be during battle whereas the problem remains for the AI since with all the buildings' restrictions, it can't recruit all the types in one single province but just the type(s) allowed by the buildings present there.

    I am more for a system like TROM3 with the AOR recruitment because this allows you to taylor 2 things: 1) Expansion: you can recruit in the new provinces the troops that come from those territories. 2) Population: You HAVE TO 1) because your "native troops" are limited in numbers (big guy has more troops than small guy!).
    TROM3 has a major disadvantage in the fact you can recruit ONE local samurai unit (unit caps are very present there too) but I think in these regards, S2r+ should evolve this way.

    Still... when the tech tree progresses you'll see more and more ashigaru coming, especially the teppo. Unfortunately, the mod can't do miracles.

    BTW Iehisa's personal guard is something, his army... something else. ;)

  26. #236

    Default Re: Can't build Post Roads??

    It works fine now. I didn't research equal fields at that time and it didn't show me that I had to research it to build the post roads. So I was a little confused.

    Anyways, great mod, it's multiple time more fun than the vanilla version.

    Thx for your help!

  27. #237

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Later accounts of the Tokugawa army show a composition of approximately 1/3 Arquebus&Archers, 1/3 Spear and 1/3 Samurai (mounted and dismounted) + loads of servants.
    However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)

  28. #238
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't build Post Roads??

    Always check the art tree (that shows the requirement!), not the building-info alone, as S2R+ has a lot changes in this area ;)
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  29. #239
    TW Modder Since 2005 Member DaVinci's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    However in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru (to scale castle walls etc.) if at least I could recruit some Archers to reflect a 1/3 ratio of each unit type. I juist looked at my ingame armies and probably my main concerne is the lack of ranged units. I can´t recruit Yumi Ashigaru which i find odd, and considering the year 1575 I should deffinately be able to recruit more Arquebus units (more than 3*80 in about 10 provinces)
    Honestly i don't know what you are playing there, if you have a bow dojo you are able to recruit archers, if you have the according dojo, you are able to recruit the according Samurai units ... "in this mod you can ONLY recruit yari ashigaru" ... wtf you are talking about?
    I believe your install is somehow wrong, perhaps mixed with other mods.

    You are mentioning historical accounts of faction army consistences ... note, that S2R+ is not an accurate history simulation, it's what the opener thread says: A combination of realism and gameplay design.
    And for example in regard of historical realism in the environment and design of Tokugawa, there is a focus on Oda making a good play (vs. vanilla design), in consequence on the costs of Tokugawa. If you want a lot of Teppo units you must play Oda.

    However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.
    Last edited by DaVinci; 09-04-2011 at 14:23.
    TWC Wiki: List of TW Modding Contributions 2005-2011
    Release 12.2012: Third Age TW Realism+
    Release 04.2013: Rise of the Samurai Realism+


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  30. #240

    Default Re: Shogun 2 Realism + | Main Thread: Feedback & Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DaVinci View Post

    However, upcoming update will contain a lot alterations again.
    I think he'll be a bit shocked :)
    BWHAHAAHAHAH

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