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Thread: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

  1. #61
    mostly harmless Member B-Wing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Thanks for the great preview!! That's two in a short period of time! You guys are great.

    I love all the visual detail in the unit previews. Really brings life to the still images.

    I noticed one thing that made me scratch my head, though. In the first wallpaper, some of the soldiers have a cone sticking out of their heads. Is that a hairstyle or just some other part of the model clipping through?

  2. #62

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    hair knots all germans had them

    according to the gallic wars the kelts had their hair died in a white lime while germans used hairknots

  3. #63
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    The socalled Suebian Knot (Suebian = Sweboz) was a hairstyle popular amongst the Suebi confederation, not all Germans; and probably not even all Sweboz. Which is why we included it, but not on all.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
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  4. #64
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by war is hell View Post
    Oh I feel dumb now. Why doesn't he have one of those cool banners like the rest of you guys?


    TBH it is because I am 1) a nub when it comes to banners; the internal forum is OVERWHELMING in its size and complexity, so I forgot where to get the banners
    2) I am an arrogant bastard that believes everybody knows me; of course not having been active in the Public Forum for a year precludes a relative newcomer (45 posts) doing so.

    So, no worries, you are not dumb; Joe (CMAQ) lives across the Pond, he might drink it for me. He deserves it, for him, Jasper and Alin does the majority of the work in any case.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

    Balloon count: 13

  5. #65

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Wow...That was an amazing preview!! I'm sort of interested in them now thanks to the cutting edge graphics despite the fact that I've never played them before

  6. #66
    Member Member Phalanx300's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    I'm wondering. Why are the Germanic archers now using knives instead of spears?

    Also, will there be a Germanic pikeman unit? Never found anything to support such an unit, if there is it should probably have an ordinary shield and just a very long spear.

  7. #67
    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Tank is the team leader.
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

    Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    TBH it is because I am 1) a nub when it comes to banners; the internal forum is OVERWHELMING in its size and complexity, so I forgot where to get the banners
    2) I am an arrogant bastard that believes everybody knows me; of course not having been active in the Public Forum for a year precludes a relative newcomer (45 posts) doing so.

    So, no worries, you are not dumb; Joe (CMAQ) lives across the Pond, he might drink it for me. He deserves it, for him, Jasper and Alin does the majority of the work in any case.
    lol ok then nice to meet you. If there is ever an EB meet up in the Miami, FL area your beer will be waiting for you, cheers.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx300 View Post
    I'm wondering. Why are the Germanic archers now using knives instead of spears?

    Also, will there be a Germanic pikeman unit? Never found anything to support such an unit, if there is it should probably have an ordinary shield and just a very long spear.
    the cimbrii are said to have used a solid pike formation

  10. #70
    Member Member Macilrille's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    We cannot divulge more yet, you will just have to wait.
    But I can point out the fairly common knowledge that it was not the Cimbrii that used a pike phalanx, it was the Suebi; they are clearly described to be doing so in Caesar's Gallic Wars. Furthermore, in my native Denmark there are numerous gravefinds of "lance" heads associated with the warrior aristocracy.
    Last edited by Macilrille; 05-19-2011 at 10:26.
    'For months Augustus let hair and beard grow and occasionally banged his head against the walls whilst shouting; "Quinctillius Varus, give me my legions back"' -Sueton, Augustus.

    "Deliver us oh God, from the fury of the Norsemen", French prayer, 9th century.
    Ask gi'r klask! ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

    Balloon count: 13

  11. #71

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by moonburn View Post
    hair knots all germans had them

    according to the gallic wars the kelts had their hair died in a white lime while germans used hairknots
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  12. #72

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx300 View Post
    Can't the same be said of certain Celtic helmets which will be used?
    The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility.
    Expect only a few of the Sweboz warriors equiped with helmets.
    Last edited by TheTank; 05-19-2011 at 13:25.

  13. #73
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTank View Post
    The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility.
    I think Phalanx300 meant to ask if the argument of impracticability couldn't equally be made against the elaborate helmets used for the Celtic generals.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    To some degree, of course. The helmets of the elite are all about making the wearer look the part, but the Viksø helmets do sacrifice a bit more than usual in terms of usabiliy:
    http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstilling...g/language/uk/
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 05-19-2011 at 15:22.
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  15. #75
    Member Member Phalanx300's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Macilrille View Post
    We cannot divulge more yet, you will just have to wait.
    But I can point out the fairly common knowledge that it was not the Cimbrii that used a pike phalanx, it was the Suebi; they are clearly described to be doing so in Caesar's Gallic Wars. Furthermore, in my native Denmark there are numerous gravefinds of "lance" heads associated with the warrior aristocracy.
    You mean this?

    "caes.gal.1.52": [1.52] Caesar appointed over each legion a lieutenant and a questor, that every one might have them as witnesses of his valor. He himself began the battle at the head of the right wing, because he had observed that part of the enemy to be the least strong. Accordingly our men, upon the signal being given, vigorously made an attack upon the enemy, and the enemy so suddenly and rapidly rushed forward, that there was no time for casting the javelins at them. Throwing aside [therefore] their javelins, they fought with swords hand to hand. But the Germans, according to their custom, rapidly forming a phalanx, sustained the attack of our swords. There were found very many of our soldiers who leaped upon the phalanx, and with their hands tore away the shields, and wounded the enemy from above.
    It mentions them forming a Phalanx but still using their shields. Which would probably mean a Hoplite style Phalanx rather then a Pike Phalanx. Also seeing the shields of the Germanic warriors which probably wouldn't be suited for a Pike Phalanx.

    I think it just means the Germanics forming a Shieldwall, as was their custom. The Romans labelled it a Phalanx because Hoplites used a similar tactic. Don't see anything supporting a Pike unit.
    Last edited by Phalanx300; 05-19-2011 at 14:55.

  16. #76
    Son of Lusus Member Lusitani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Amazing.... congratz!!!!

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  17. #77
    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Phalanx300 View Post
    It mentions them forming a Phalanx but still using their shields. Which would probably mean a Hoplite style Phalanx rather then a Pike Phalanx. Also seeing the shields of the Germanic warriors which probably wouldn't be suited for a Pike Phalanx.

    I think it just means the Germanics forming a Shieldwall, as was their custom. The Romans labelled it a Phalanx because Hoplites used a similar tactic. Don't see anything supporting a Pike unit.
    Indeed, my render of this was 'shieldwall' and not phalanx. In English the Greek word 'phalanx' simply means 'formation.'
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

    Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Amazing preview, I can't wait to use the early and late Sweboz units to ambush and crush the Romani!
    I noticed that in the unit description for the Germanic Levy spearmen they are described as not being particularly organised because they didn't serve in as regular a capacity as other warriors. Does this mean that Celtic Levy spearmen are also going to be more disorganised in EB2? I ask this only because I was very surprised when I first saw that Lugoae were as organised as Gaelaiche, who are part of the warrior class.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    The Celtic levies will be that same as the Sweboz levies in EB2.

  20. #80
    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJohn View Post
    I ask this only because I was very surprised when I first saw that Lugoae were as organised as Gaelaiche, who are part of the warrior class.
    where did you read that?
    Last edited by cmacq; 05-23-2011 at 01:36.
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

    Herein events and rations daily birth the labors of freedom.

  21. #81

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Just wanted to say thanks for the update. Really enjoyed it!

  22. #82
    Member Member anubis88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    great
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  23. #83
    Member Member geala's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Very nice. The units are fantastic. And it's a pleasure to see in advance those ugly bearded trousered barbarians (sorry) who will be butchered by my very civilized Greek troops. For the peace in the world.

    The names and the timeframe for the different tribes in the introduction: is there any new hard evidence for it or is it a -necessary and acceptable- speculation based on later ancient reports?

    Last but not least, I hope for a preview of a Greek faction in the near future.
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  24. #84

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    This is amazing! I am truly speechless. Way to go, EB Team!

  25. #85

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    To some degree, of course. The helmets of the elite are all about making the wearer look the part, but the Viksø helmets do sacrifice a bit more than usual in terms of usabiliy:
    http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstilling...g/language/uk/
    That's more of a crown than a practical helmet - great for letting your own men see you, so they know you're not dead, but a liability in a close fight. Wearing that helmet, I'd rather stand in a chariot and throw javelins, not fight hand to hand.

  26. #86
    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    To some degree, of course. The helmets of the elite are all about making the wearer look the part, but the Viksø helmets do sacrifice a bit more than usual in terms of usabiliy:
    http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstilling...g/language/uk/
    I would prefere the viksö over the one with the bird...

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  27. #87
    Bruadair a'Bruaisan Member cmacq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTank View Post
    The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility. Expect only a few of the Sweboz warriors equiped with helmets.
    I always meant to bring this up, but aren't those Viksø type helmeted 'leaping men' dipicted on the Gundestrup cauldron? By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
    Last edited by cmacq; 06-23-2011 at 17:42.
    quae res et cibi genere et cotidiana exercitatione et libertate vitae

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  28. #88

    Default Salii, 'ancilia' and scandinavian 'v-notched' shields

    Quote Originally Posted by cmacq View Post
    [...]By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
    An really interesting hypothetical nexus , but presumably equally speculative . Two questions, which just (too much leisure lately ) sprang into my mind:

    1.Weren't the Italic Bronze Age ancilia - of which type the sacred shields of Mars probably were - originally derived from rather ordinary single round-shields (cf. the Northern European Yetholm-type shield) riveted together - partially overlapping and thus resembling the much earlier and unrelated Mycenean 'figure-eight shield'?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Bronze miniature weapons from Grave 21, Practica di Mare (Lavinium), Early EIA 1 (ca. 850-800 BC)


    Full-size bronze ancilia from Grave 1036, Veii-Casale del Fosso, Late EIA 2 (ca.750-700 BC)

    (Source: http://www.socionauki.ru/journal/articles/129725/)
    Quote Originally Posted by cmacq View Post
    [...] 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
    2.Doesn't 'v-notched' usually refer to details of the molded (leather shields) or embossed (bronze shields) decor - the shape of the 'indentation' of the concentric grooves ringing the shield boss (cf. this reconstruction of the 'u-notch' Irish Cloonlara shield)?

    The preserved Italic bronze ancilia IIRC don't show this indentation - only concentric grooves, ridges and various decorative patterns of embossed 'buckles' - they were neither 'v-notched' like the wooden and leathern shields of Northern Europe nor 'u-notched' like
    some contemporary Villanovan round-shields (?).


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  29. #89

    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Quote Originally Posted by cmacq View Post
    I always meant to bring this up, but aren't those Viksø type helmeted 'leaping men' dipicted on the Gundestrup cauldron? By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
    Yes, I know of that depiction.
    The Romans also mentioned Cimbri warriors wearing animal shaped helmets and the Gundestrup cauldron also depicted Raven and boar chested helmets.
    Interesting depictions of warriors turn up much later in the Germanic iron age.
    Like these depictions below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is evidence that mail coats where used but extremely rare in Northern Europe during the Pre-Roman iron age but Helmets is another matter.
    I do know of a very odd wooden "Helmets" found in Denmark.
    They are not carbon dated but the helmet style suggest that they date from the Pre-Roman iron age.
    This link you can read a bit more about it.
    http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.htm...d=25&id=287668

  30. #90
    RABO! Member Brave Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I

    Anyone see that CA used a very very similar faction symbol for the Suebi as you guys are using for the Sweboz in EB2? I think that the stated purpose of the original EB team has definitely been heard in CA's offices.
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