Anybody enjoying Game of Thrones? (HBO TV series)

[Greyblades]

Well, I cannot say that my eyes have been opened but the more I think about last nights episode the more disenchanted I become to the series. This is a mess.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

D&D are incapable of GRRM's quality, The more the show deviates from the books the more we see that. Stannis wasnt ever well treated in the show but this is beyond the pale of mischaracterisation. No wonder Peter Dinklege stopped giving a crap this season.

Also, Remember when the unsullied were supposed to be the best soldiers alive? Me neither. I think I realized how much of a joke they are in the show the second that they started patrolling a densly populated city in small groups with spears and daggers.

[Sarmatian]

TV shows are very different medium than books. You have to consider actors and their screen time, you have to make sure that all episodes have similar quality, and that not a lot of episodes go without something interesting happening.

In books you can make jumps back in forth in time, while TV shows have to follow a certain structure, especially TV shows as complicated as this one with so much plots within the plot and so many characters.

If you can't stand it, just don't bother watching, because it's gonna happen again. Read the books again, instead.

[Greyblades]

I'm sorry, but I find myself unable to understand quite how the difficulties of adaptation excuse such a drastic rewrite of Stannis' personality and character.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I find myself unable to understand quite how the difficulties of adaptation excuse such a drastic rewrite

Sometimes it's just the screen writers discretion, for better or worse

Several examples:

Lord of the Rings---Battle of Helm's Deep...Jackson made some fundamental changes like who was there (no elves except Legolas in the book, not a company of elvish archers); what reinforcements Gandalf brought (a thousand foot soldiers rounded up from Ford's Crossing, and not a thousand horsemen sweeping down from above); and on and on.....

The Sword of Truth---too numerous to mention the changes made adapting the books to the screen, but the biggest was a total rewrite of the central character Richard Cypher/Rahl. In Goodkind's series, Richard is a big man maybe 6'4", a quiet sort who would think things through before acting (although he had a temper, at times) and the definite leader when paired with the Mother Confessor Kahlan Amnell. On the screen, the portrayal was a slender, super-ripped swashbuckler, who rarely thought things through, and was more-or-less led along by Kahlan. You couldn't get a more opposite interpretation. I've often wondered if that was why Goodkind had nothing to do with the TV production other than collect royalties

Strangely, they nailed every other character perfectly as I has imagined them. I watched for awhile and then couldn't stand it anymore so I did what Sarmatian has suggested you do....stop watching

[Greyblades]

Ok then samaritan; if you don't want to hear me complain about a show on its own thread you could just stop reading the thread.

See how pointless and annoying expressing that sentiment is?

As for adaptation; there is no reason the TV show format would inherently require Stannis to burn his own child when the books has him actively doing the opposite.

[ReluctantSamurai]

there is no reason the TV show format would inherently require Stannis to burn his own child when the books has him actively doing the opposite.

You're still not getting the point...screen writers are under NO obligation to faithfully reproduce, on the screen, what's written in the book they are based upon. Sometimes, it's for the better...sometimes not. And sometimes it's just impossible to do. Books adapted to screen-play typically have HUGE budgets:

http://www.ibtimes.com/game-thrones-...pisode-1658966

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/fr...d-of-the-Rings

There has to be justification for all that money, so producers have to keep the interest high and the plot moving. Sometimes that involves deviations from the book, which quite frankly, can be boooring at times, something a TV show or movie cannot afford.

I find it rather amusing that just now, in the 9th episode of season 5, you get your knickers in a snit over the producers rendering of Stannis It's not like this was the first time he's had someone burned at the stake, to say nothing of cutting off the fingers of a friend and trusted advisor, or cheating on his wife by consorting with a very nasty witch...to kill his own brother no less

On a lighter note...my apologies if this has been posted before. Even so, it's funnier than hell:

http://www.shutterstock.com/blog/201...-corporations/

[Greyblades]

You're still not getting the point...screen writers are under NO obligation to faithfully reproduce, on the screen, what's written in the book they are based upon.

Considering I havent demanded anything like the petulant child you apparantly think I am, their lack of obligation is irrelevant. They have screwed up big time and I will express my anger and dissapointment regardless of whether they have to listen.

I find it rather amusing that just now, in the 9th episode of season 5, you get your knickers in a snit over the producers rendering of Stannis It's not like this was the first time he's had someone burned at the stake, to say nothing of cutting off the fingers of a friend and trusted advisor, or cheating on his wife by consorting with a very nasty witch...to kill his own brother no less

Pfft, all those things happened in the books, and it made sense to his character. This didnt and it doesnt, in fact it goes directly the opposite direction that his book version did. Shireen is his anchor, his morality pet as tvtropes call them, She is the last character Book Stannis would ever burn and that his show version would come to the decision to do so in the span of a single episode is a complete bastardization of the character. That the thing driving him to do so is the offscreen antics of the show maker's villian sue just makes it hurt all the more.

[Sarmatian]

I'm sorry, but I find myself unable to understand quite how the difficulties of adaptation excuse such a drastic rewrite of Stannis' personality and character.

Depends, really.As ReluctantSamurai said, it can often be a writer or director wanting to do things differently. It may be a whole lot of things.

You read books at your leisure. You can read it all in a few days, or you can prolong and read a single book for months. You can read 5 pages today and 55 tomorrow. You can stop in the middle of the book and continue reading after a few years. You can skim or even skip the parts you find boring, but you can also return to them later and read them thoroughly later on.

TV show have a specific format and are aired at a specific time, have a limited duration over a limited period of time and you have to have stuff happening consistently for people not to lose interest. I've read the first two ASOIAF books a long time ago. Couldn't get my hands on the third at the time so I gave up at the moment, thinking I will pick it up in the future sometime. I never did. And then the show came and I started watching. So, since the second season, I'm watching the show as someone who didn't read the books. This 5th season has been relatively boring for the first 5 episodes, in the sense that the plot didn't unfold enough. I guess that's why they went for some shocking moments that aren't in the book, like the death of Sir Barristan, to keep the audience involved. Stannis has been peripheral character in the show before and after battle of Blackwater Bay. Maybe they thought they needed something to make audience pay more attention to Stannis as he may become more important in the future.

There may be a lot of reason, but the bottom line is - it is going to happen with every adaption from books to movies and vice versa. Read the Star Wars book, which was written by Lucas after the first film. It is different. That simply how it works.

Ok then samaritan; if you don't want to hear me complain about a show on its own thread you could just stop reading the thread.

See how pointless and annoying expressing that sentiment is?

If that's how my post came off, I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention. I wanted to say that you shouldn't be so angry about something that's a given.

As for adaptation; there is no reason the TV show format would inherently require Stannis to burn his own child when the books has him actively doing the opposite.

Maybe there isn't for this particular change. Maybe directors thought it would be a good dramatic moment. Maybe they thought it would show just how important his quest is to Stannis, or maybe they were just after the "WOW" effect. Maybe they got a rough outline from Martin about where they can take the story while he finishes his book, so they were setting up an important plot point for later.

I have no idea, but I'm sure it won't be the last thing that will be done differently. If it bothers you that much, just stop watching.

[ReluctantSamurai]

They have screwed up big time

Not according to Martin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-9342569.html

But Martin, who has worked as TV writer since the early Eighties, said he understood the show’s creators would want to make their own artistic choices for the books to work in a different medium.
“The graphic novels and television programmes are in the hands of others, who make their own artistic choices as to what sort of approach will work best in their respective mediums,” he said.

Martin drew upon the differences between his books and the small screen adaptation, insisting that he likes many of the new added scenes but misses “the things they leave out”.

No direct reference to the Shireen burning, but he doesn't seem to be an unhappy camper at the adaption to screen-play, and he wrote the books

[drone]

At this point I want the show to go in a completely different direction, I don't really want the book ending spoiled.

[Beskar]

Spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I stopped watching this season as I felt it was getting a bit ridiculous and I heavily disagree with some of the book changes (read em all).

My brother says to me that stannis burns shireen in the show and I was very disappointed. Stannis is my favourite character in the books and he would NEVER burn Shireen. It saddens me that they do this to such a great character in the books.

Made me cry.

[Greyblades]

In the span of two episodes a great series goes from it's greatest height and it's lowest point.
I'm done.

[Crandar]

Well, I was rooting for Stannis and he was murdered by that Eastern German swimmer. Or did he not? The Internet is full of conpiracy theories about a tree cut in two by Brie, but I am afraid it's just wishful thinking.

Glad that Myrcella died, Jaime deserved it, but I am afraid that both the Reek and Sansa will survive the fall. It's rather a pity, because they have been quite a boring couple lately.

Same goes for Jon, who is obviously not dead yet.

[PROVOST]

"For the Watch!"

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, we're officially caught up. You have nine months and change, George.

Anyone think he can do it? (obviously I'm only talking about Book 6, as there's no way on earth he can crank out 6 *and* 7 in that amount of time)

[rajpoot]

Amazing episode. Jon's scene at the end and Cersei's scene before that, actually seeing them hit a lot harder than just reading about it. Specially Cersei's walk. I even felt sorry for Cersei.
Good stuff besides that. Jorah and Daario teaming up, that's new and something I doubt we'll see in the books. Stannis' defeat....now that was a kicker. And unless D&D are going for silly twists, I doubt we'll be seeing him again. Which is something I regret because in the books he's one of my favourite characters.
Also since Sansa has seemingly managed to escape with Theon, I guess Mance Rayder is really dead? And since Melisandre is at the wall now, I'm betting the fan theory that she'll bring Jon back is going to come true next season.
All that said I kind of don't see the point of the show if it's going to deviate from the books completely. I mean sure the characters are interesting but if the story changes too much then they aren't the same characters anymore.

Edit:
Oh and Tyrion and Varys, if there's one thing I look forward to in the next season at all, it is them handling Mereen together.

[Greyblades]

A week ago, I would be exhasperated that someone found the last episode amazing, now I'm just too tired.

[rajpoot]

Eh, the series has had its ups and downs for me too, but apart from the fact that Stannis got the short end of the stick, and the concern that the show might become a different Game of Thrones from the books entirely and lose it's identity, I think its going fine.

[edyzmedieval]

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow." - Melisandre

[ReluctantSamurai]

I would be exhasperated that someone found the last episode amazing

Don't know how anyone could not find Cersei's Walk of Shame to be a brilliant piece of acting and producing And Arya's face-peeling scene was eerie as hell. And the set-up for next season's opener will probably make that episode the most watched ever. Will Jon get resurrected? Varys and Tyrion back together again? Danni reunited with the Dothraki? What will Jora and Daario find on their hunt for Dani? Is Stannis really dead? How does Arya cope with being blind? Do both Sansa and Reek survive the jump? And Sir Mountainstein better have sharpened his sword once Cersei finds out about Myrcella.......

In the span of two episodes a great series goes from it's greatest height and it's lowest point. I'm done.

I highly doubt that You'll be settling in to watch Episode 1 of season 6 next spring just like millions of other viewers.....

[Sarmatian]

Don't know how anyone could not find Cersei's Walk of Shame to be a brilliant piece of acting and producing And Arya's face-peeling scene was eerie as hell. And the set-up for next season's opener will probably make that episode the most watched ever. Will Jon get resurrected? Varys and Tyrion back together again? Danni reunited with the Dothraki? What will Jora and Daario find on their hunt for Dani? Is Stannis really dead? How does Arya cope with being blind? Do both Sansa and Reek survive the jump? And Sir Mountainstein better have sharpened his sword once Cersei finds out about Myrcella.......



I highly doubt that You'll be settling in to watch Episode 1 of season 6 next spring just like millions of other viewers.....

It's just the book puritans. They can't judge a show on its own merit but only on how faithfully it follows the book.

That being said, 5th season has been the worst so far. Very little stuff actually happening, it feels like one very long set up for the finale. I think that's the most important reasons the show producers had to "invent" so many shocking moments, otherwise the ratings would have dropped.


I'm told by the people who read the books that the show is at least faithful to the books in that regard.

[Greyblades]

Ah, book purist, the old standard dismissal by those too lazy to read and see what they are missing. Some changes need to be made for the sake of adaptation, that's fine, but these ones are both werent necissary and are a major downgrade in quality compared to the books.

Don't know how anyone could not find Cersei's Walk of Shame to be a brilliant piece of acting and producing And Arya's face-peeling scene was eerie as hell.

The walk was good, true to the books and well done, Arya's scene was fine though illogical, the entire point of the facless men is that they steal faces from corpses and wear them with magic, how could they get arya's without removing it? Eh, it doesnt really matter much if the mechanics change, they wear faces and kill people, if the episode was those two it would be fine.

And the set-up for next season's opener will probably make that episode the most watched ever. Will Jon get resurrected? Varys and Tyrion back together again?

Eh, Tyrion and Varys would be interesting if Peter Dinklege gets back into it, but if he's anything like he was in the dany scenes I'm not sure I want it, dude seems half asleep compared to the previous seasons.

Jon's death felt pointless, after hardhome showing how utterly screwed they were if they didnt unite there should have not been that much dissent among the watch; in the books hardhome didnt happen so there were still doubts about the White Walkers and even then they had to be pushed by Jon's actions; namely finding out Sansa was at winterfel (in the books it's just a body double the boltons were using to pretend they had arya) and rallying the wildlings to go rescue her. Breaking his vows by getting involved in stannis' war made the watch finally turn on him.

This? The reasoning is kinda weak, I mean it wouldnt have taken that much effort to give the watch a breaking point, a dispute with the wildlings or something? Would it have cost too much to bring back Tormund for a scene? Or hell, just have him read the Bastard letter and get caught sneaking out. It's dissapointing.

What will Jora and Daario find on their hunt for Dani?

Dunno, but I have no real faith the quality of writing will be maintained now they're going off script.

Is Stannis really dead?

Considering they turned Song of Ice and Fire's antisocial King Theoden into Richard III's mentally disabled twin I find myself not caring. God, his actor deserved better.

How does Arya cope with being blind?

Already know, aside from meryn trant It's going rather familiar to the books. Quite why they felt the need to make Trant a pedophile I can only speculate, probably a cheap way to make his death more satisfying.

Do both Sansa and Reek survive the jump?

In the books they survived by jumping into the snow, which had become several feet thick as result of a month long blizzard, after which theyw ere rescued by Stannis' siege forces. Stannis' thaw got rid of the snow and now he's dead, it'll likely be Brienne who rescues them, probably with the teleport she used to find stannis on a battlefield, or the one mellisandre used to get to winterfel seemingly on the same day Davos did.

And Sir Mountainstein better have sharpened his sword once Cersei finds out about Myrcella.......

In the books his helmet was hollow.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Ah, book purist, the old standard dismissal by those too lazy to read

Purist indeed! I can only imagine what your critique of Peter Jackson is.........

Already know, aside from meryn trant It's going rather familiar to the books.

Isn't that the very thing ('already know what's going to happen') that screenwriters need to avoid when adapting a book series to screen? If you 'already know' right down to the very last minutiae, why bother watching? It goes with the territory that adaptations to screen need to introduce plot twists not in the books, spatial dislocation of characters, etc., to create and keep interest.

I repeat Martin's quote:

The graphic novels and television programmes are in the hands of others, who make their own artistic choices as to what sort of approach will work best in their respective mediums.

He understands this, why can't you?

[Greyblades]

Isn't that the very thing ('already know what's going to happen') that screenwriters need to avoid when adapting a book series to screen?

No, It's not. If they arent going to follow the plot even to a tangental degree then what is the point of having it be an adaptation in the first place?

If you 'already know' right down to the very last minutiae, why bother watching? It goes with the territory that adaptations to screen need to introduce plot twists not in the books, spatial dislocation of characters, etc., to create and keep interest.

...I think you need to take a step back and look at what you just said because that is nonsense. Why go see shakespeare if you already read the script in school? Why watch a documentary if they are going to accurately follow history?

I repeat Martin's quote:

He understands this, why can't you?

Because the people he chose are good adapters but are nowhere near the story teller GRRM is. See how it says "what approach will work best"? He gave them reign to change things to better fit the medium, he did not give free reign to rewrite the story to thier individual preferences. Notice that the writing quality drops when they start making things up?

Arent you wondering what happened to the greyjoys? Where did the Blackfish go? When did you last see the Brotherhood without Banners?

You dont really think George forgot about them do you? Their stories have been phased out and replaced with boring simplistic tripe like Jamie at dorne and Sansa in Winterfell.

[ReluctantSamurai]

No, It's not. If they arent going to follow the plot even to a tangental degree then what is the point of having it be an adaptation in the first place?

Hell, why not just do a documentary? If the book is followed to a tee (and that's impossible with a different medium), there's not the level of intrigue or suspense than if you introduce creative elements that weren't in the books.

I think you need to take a step back and look at what you just said because that is nonsense

What's nonsense is that it's taken you five years to make such a big deal of departures from the books. The producers have been doing it since day 1. Putting characters where they weren't (in the books); changing characters period (it's Arya not Sansa back in Winterfell, for example); and a whole host of other changes. But god forbid they have Stannis murder his daughter, or Sir Mountainstein have eyes staring out of his helmet, or any of the other changes you're riding the waaambulance about Get over it or stop watching.....which I'm laying money on that you won't

Arent you wondering what happened to the greyjoys? Where did the Blackfish go?

There's only so much you can do on film. It would take 13-15 episodes/year (or more) to follow every plot-line in the books. That's why I quoted the GoT budget earlier to point up one of the reasons they aren't.....money. There's only so much that can be done with the money that's being spent (and what's being spent places GoT in the top 10 all time for TV episodes).

Notice that the writing quality drops when they start making things up?

That's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it......even tho' I don't agree (and judging by viewership ratings, neither do a few million others).

Their stories have been phased out and replaced with boring simplistic tripe like Jamie at dorne and Sansa in Winterfell.

One thing we can agree on....both of those plot-lines were less than overwhelming. But....nobody is perfect, and neither are the producers of GoT. Some of their decisions worked well, and some didn't. But on the whole, still must watch viewing.

[Crandar]

There's a naked woman walking rather fastly, so maybe it's a bit NWSF, but personally, I didn't manage to see anything spicy, besides a foot. Be warned, nevertheless:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEQn...ature=youtu.be

[Sarmatian]

Ah, book purist, the old standard dismissal by those too lazy to read and see what they are missing.

No, it's the old standard dismissal to the old standard "the only reason I don't like it is because it's not exactly the same as in the books".

This brings back memories of old discussions with LotR book purists of how Peter Jackson omitted Tom Bombadil scene. Oh, the sacrilege! Oh, how he ruined everything. Oh, it would have been better if the movies were never made.

[Beskar]

Because the people he chose are good adapters but are nowhere near the story teller GRRM is.

I am going to be honest, he isn't that great of a writer. The books at time can be terrible to read with a real urge to scratch out your own eyes, but you only plough through it as you want to know what happens next in the story.

[Greyblades]

Writer, storyteller, what's the difference? None in my head!

Seriously though grrm has problems, but I still maintain that his story is much better without D&D's latest alterations.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Well, you have a little over 10 months before season 6 begins. Maybe you could take the time to contact the producers with a script of your own