Guns are too strong or not?

**Paolai** · 05-30-2011, 13:02

Imho till you cannot win with just shooters if your opponent plays well and with a balance army, it means that shooters are not unbalanced. If you go to fild an army with just Ashi archers, yes, it very difficult to win vs a lot of guns. If you have 3/4 strong archers and 1 good gun (rest all inf and cavs) you will have imho no problems at all.
Also in STW1/MI musks were deadly especially if well fielded. They were different agreed, but deadly aswell. Imho the game is just new and sometimes all of us go in panic. If you have to approach an opponent with a lot of musks take your time and hit/push with your strong archers where you want to attack. Assuming that you have strong archers fielded.

**Papewaio** · 06-06-2011, 11:51

Well at least something causes morale to be triggered. I think the problem is not the guns, its the too high general morale, making only guns have an obvious effect (not so obvious is the how quickly units collapse once surrounded or non spears charged down by cav). It does feel harsh charging a unit to turn tail half way there. Why do my sprites have to be so sensible, it's only like half their unit thats dead...

**Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout** · 06-07-2011, 13:21

Yep,an army with 2 Matchlock can quite easily beat any army.

**ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88** · 06-07-2011, 14:44

It seems now that, no matter if I do something stupid like banzai rush a matchlock army, or if I try turning their flanks or whatever, it seems their matchlocks kill the unit ASAP.

**Orda Khan** · 06-07-2011, 21:52

From what I saw in the Tosa cup replays, range units in general are far too effective.

**ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88** · 06-08-2011, 01:06

I hate them, I can't win with them or against them.

**AMP** · 06-11-2011, 14:14

If bows and guns functioned like they did in STW days there wouldn't be a problem. You could win vs guns in STW no problem without using any yourself...

**Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout** · 06-13-2011, 13:09

I found a soultion to defeat Matchlock guns.

I was playing a 2 vs battle yesterday and My bow Samurai fried flaming arrows on the matchlock.The Matchlock were damaged.They were then waverng anretreatin

**Tempiic** · 06-14-2011, 09:14

I think it is more an issue of upgrades rather than the missile units themselves. Or rather it seems that certain missile upgrades are more effective than melee upgrades. Can notice the difference easily when using plain missile units instead of upgraded ones, or when playing classic. (They still pack of a punch of course but its more spread out over time)

**East East Wild** · 06-15-2011, 09:22

Matchlocks are not overpowered...except if u make a lvl 9 Monk version with 150 range, high loading skills, rapid fire and using stand and fight plus inspire.

You will then get a tommy gun!!! Other than that, you can (not easily but can) counter them with archers, cav charge covered with targets baits(ahsigaru)
or do not over commit(bad habbit of mine) your infantry into the main clash and go around the line or gaps to finsh them off.

**Yesugey** · 06-19-2011, 23:26

Originally Posted by East East Wild

You will then get a tommy gun!!!

Hehe, tommy gun, you couldnt put it better mate. Accuracy upgrades boosts Matchlocks, Bombards and Firebombs significantly, and that cracks the balance.

I exprienced 3 really annoying battles against guns today. I usually make banzai charge against matchlocks, and even I lose some units, it doesnt matter because I swarm the enemy with infantry. And I usually win, except only if they retreat and keep shooting. (that devastates the morale)

Anyway, on 3 battles today against lvl10 people, but their matchlocks sniped my general on first blow, and my army shattered instantly. It really annoyed me, its like "if you have lvl9 matchlock, you already won." you know...

Other than that, I deal with matchlocks with no problem, I even like to see them because they are good only for the first blow, and even they retreat and shoot, they usually shoot their own troops.

**GfmHellmann** · 06-22-2011, 08:45

I don`t think that the matchlock unit in itself is too strong, the amount of kills including FF is ok. The only thing they need to do is a moral shock for friendly troops, too...and even a bigger one than for the enemies. The enemy sees the guns and expects to be shot at...friendly troops don`t do that and for being shot from friendly troops into their backs the moral penalty has to be even bigger.
If that tweak would be implemented matchlocks are no fire and forget unit anymore...you would have to expose them, thus having to protect them and the most matchlock abusers won`t pull that off because they lack the skill imo.
I would like to see that in the next patch, tbh i think they _must_ do something like that.