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Thread: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

  1. #31

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    I like it. New map a week is cool.

    Sense this is ladder, I think we should do best of 1 game. Best of 3 is to keep tournaments fair and balanced. I dont think it is necessary in a ladder where you can just play again. If someone has a problem with losing that one game, play another game and have both count.

    I bet more games would be played in this format too ;)

  2. #32
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AzureTotalWar View Post
    I like it. New map a week is cool.

    Sense this is ladder, I think we should do best of 1 game. Best of 3 is to keep tournaments fair and balanced. I dont think it is necessary in a ladder where you can just play again. If someone has a problem with losing that one game, play another game and have both count.

    I bet more games would be played in this format too ;)
    That's a fair point. The easiest option on this might be making the number of matches to be played another one of the 'changeable' rules. 3 would be default, but 1 (or 37) would be fine by agreement.


  3. #33

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    i think he has a good idea, variety in maps is good for more than 1 reason.

  4. #34
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Alright, well I have yet to hear any disagreement with the rotating default maps idea. I'll set a tentative start date of this Friday for the default map change to start. That will give people more time to note the change and discuss it, plus it will also be two weeks from the start date, so it'll keep the rotation on a normal 1-week schedule, which it wouldn't be if I did it sooner.

    Any more thoughts about also making the number of games another 'default' setting that can be changed with player agreement?


  5. #35
    Member Member spicykorean's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    We're only allowed one match against the same player in a week. Is the week considered Sunday to Saturday, or Monday to Sunday? Or something else?

  6. #36
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spicykorean View Post
    We're only allowed one match against the same player in a week. Is the week considered Sunday to Saturday, or Monday to Sunday? Or something else?
    A week is 168 hours (24 hours x 7). The utility is set up to automatically block challenges between two players until 168 hours have passed since the last one, so if you want to know if you can re-challenge someone, just try and do so. If the utility lets you add it, you're good to go.


  7. #37
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Ok, as there's still been no single protest, I'm going to make the 'default' map changing an official rule. The actual rule itself has been changed from:

    Map - All battles in each match will be fought on the same map, with the choice of map up to the players. If no agreement can be made regarding the map, the map will be Rice Fields.
    to:

    Map - All battles in each match will be fought on the same map, with the choice of map up to the players. If no agreement can be made regarding the map, the map will be the default map as specified for each Season.
    The default maps will then be listed by date and Season, with each map getting about one week of play. As we're already well into week 2 for Season 1, we'll keep the first map in rotation for two weeks instead of one, just to keep the schedule on a relatively stable weekly schedule. The defaults for Season 1 will be as follows:

    Friday, June 17 to Thursday, June 30 - Rice Fields
    Friday, July 1 to Thursday, July 7 - Alpine Hills
    Friday, July 8 to Sunday, July 17 - Wood Settlement

    There is still time to change the upcoming default map rotation, so if you would prefer to see maps other than Alpine Hills and Wood Settlement as default, please speak up.
    Last edited by TinCow; 06-28-2011 at 17:17.


  8. #38

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    rotating the default map. I really like this idea, one of my only gripes with this ladder was the repetitiveness of playing a ladder always on rice fields. so this is a great idea as agreeing on a map choice with your opponent can be hard. i had taken to issuing my challenges with a 'pls not rice fields' condition to aviod it.

    i also think the bo1 default might be a good idea too, it certainly will make matches easier to organise as it requires less time, and since its a ladder, you get to play people up to 4 times a month anyway so you really dont need to do bo3 which is afterall only designed to make the results of single showmatches fair. in a league format you are likely to play people 3 times anyway. however, if the level of participation stays at current levels, which i hope it doesnt, bo3 might be good becuase most people wont play more than once each season against a given opponent.

    so my stance on the bo3/bo1 thing is to let the season run through with bo3, and review it at the end to see how much people play each other, if they play each other a lot, change it to bo1, if they only play each other once on average, leave at bo3. i think a rule that major shouldnt change mid season anyway. for example i would be 3-2 up if it was bo1, but im 3-2 down. so it is significant to the results.
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  9. #39

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    I think best out of 3 is needed to keep it balanced. Since it is more or less rock paper scissors in selecting your army, and If you select "wrong" and the enemy has a good counter you wont have a chance to redeem yourself in just one match.

  10. #40
    Member Member spicykorean's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ][GERUDO][ Harba View Post
    I think best out of 3 is needed to keep it balanced. Since it is more or less rock paper scissors in selecting your army, and If you select "wrong" and the enemy has a good counter you wont have a chance to redeem yourself in just one match.
    The more games, the better. You only get to play an opponent once a week, so make the most of it. :)

  11. #41
    The Puppet King Senior Member AggonyKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    hmm am I doing something wrong? I create an open challenge for anyone but after a while it just disappears :?

    "Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare."
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  12. #42
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AggonyKing View Post
    hmm am I doing something wrong? I create an open challenge for anyone but after a while it just disappears :?
    I think it disappears if no one has accepted it when the scheduled time has passed.


  13. #43
    The Puppet King Senior Member AggonyKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    hmm well I just made a new one, will keep track of when it disappears.

    "Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare."
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  14. #44
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    We are entering the last week of Season One. As per the Rules, after the season is done we will have a one week break. As of this moment, we have a total of 24 players who have completed at least one match. I do not think that is enough to split up into tiers. If we split into tiers, we would end up with 12 in each tier, which will be way too few players available for people to find someone to play. So, the plan for the moment is to keep Season Two as a single ladder just like Season One. If you disagree with this plan, please speak now.

    We will also need a new four map rotation for the next set of defaults. If you've got any preferences on this matter, post what you'd like to have included. As always, please do go out and recruit other players. This League will only be as good as the group of players we've got in it, so it's crucial that we increase the number of active competitors. The more active players we have, the easier it will be to find matches.


  15. #45
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Congratulations to ][GERUDO][ Harba, who has won Season 1 of the SJL with a very impressive record of 12 and 4.

    Unfortunately, activity levels have dropped off a cliff over the last two weeks. This whole League is pointless if no one is going to play any games. If you are interested in continuing play into Season 2, please post here and help us figure out how we can return activity levels to what they were during the first two weeks.


  16. #46

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Yes. Lets do best of 1 and make the league last 1-2 weeks.

  17. #47

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    you won't be able to return the activity levels of the start of the leagues, it's the life cycle of the game. it's the same reason there is no point in using the foyer, no point in televising matches, and no point in starting team tournaments any longer. i hate to rain on the parade, but if you want a longer game life a lot needs to be done with the base game.

    having 6-8 active players at this point would be very good success IMO, so something more along those lines should be the goal.

    one way to do this would be to change the default mode from classic to avatar, that could net a couple new players. regardless of the merits of classic (and i believe it does have merits for sure) most players play avatar, by a wide margin. so to me it seems logical to make avatar, not classic the default mode if you goal is more players.

    speaking for myself one of the reasons i took my name out of the league was because nobody would play me in avatar, and i don't have the practice/game knowledge to play classic in such a competitive format as the level of play in the league is extremely high (that and i got tired of being asked to play 1 v 1 all the time when i tend to only play 1 v 1s when i feel like it these days).

    but i'm not going to rejoin the league due to the reasons i mentioned above, so make what you will of my suggestions. i'm in my MPC phase of the game now heh.

  18. #48
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Switching over to avatar mode defeats the purpose of the League, which is to provide as close to a level playing field as possible for people to compete. Avatar battles will always be unbalanced, no matter what rules we slap on top of them. If people want unbalanced games, there are plenty of places for them to go to find them. The reason we created the SJL was because it seemed like there was a need and a desire for a competitive format which was based purely on skill.


  19. #49
    Member Member spicykorean's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cu'Roi View Post
    you won't be able to return the activity levels of the start of the leagues, it's the life cycle of the game. it's the same reason there is no point in using the foyer, no point in televising matches, and no point in starting team tournaments any longer. i hate to rain on the parade, but if you want a longer game life a lot needs to be done with the base game.

    having 6-8 active players at this point would be very good success IMO, so something more along those lines should be the goal.

    one way to do this would be to change the default mode from classic to avatar, that could net a couple new players. regardless of the merits of classic (and i believe it does have merits for sure) most players play avatar, by a wide margin. so to me it seems logical to make avatar, not classic the default mode if you goal is more players.

    speaking for myself one of the reasons i took my name out of the league was because nobody would play me in avatar, and i don't have the practice/game knowledge to play classic in such a competitive format as the level of play in the league is extremely high (that and i got tired of being asked to play 1 v 1 all the time when i tend to only play 1 v 1s when i feel like it these days).

    but i'm not going to rejoin the league due to the reasons i mentioned above, so make what you will of my suggestions. i'm in my MPC phase of the game now heh.
    I like classic mode and the quality and attitude of players that I got to meet through the SJL and the foyer was outstanding.
    There are many clans out there doing regular avatar tournaments, so I think that the SJL feels a needed niche.
    My personal reason for quitting the league is that I got bored of playing Uesugi monk spam armies. It felt like every battle was the same army on the same map, and that simply didn't make me look forward to the next match.

    Btw what does MPC mean?

  20. #50
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    MPC = Multiplayer Campaign


  21. #51
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    What is the award to this tournament again?

  22. #52

    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    MPC = the greatest innovation in TW since the switch to 3d map :).

    yes the attitude + level of play + professional hosting makes the SJL pretty much perfect. the problem is the greater activity levels with the game itself... i don't really see what can be done about that.

    what you could do is everyone who wants to support the league put it in their signature on the forums here, at twc, at CA, and on steam. then you sort of have persistent advertising that coupled with the way they are discounting this game could sustain the league, albeit with rather low activity levels.

    then you just bide your time until CA makes a new release, whereupon you get 300 new players to the ladder...

  23. #53
    Emperor of clan GERUDO Member m0j0mann's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    CuRoi's idea seems pretty good. Also, I'm sure there are more decent players out there who would be willing to join. A bit more advertising around the clan forums wouldn't hurt. Secondly, you might want to consider changing the format to increase popularity/activity. From what I hear, most people prefer some form of avatar mode over classic, although I might be wrong on this point.

    Lastly, this:

    What is the award to this tournament again?
    You got any photoshoppers handy making a victory award/sig/graphic for Season 1? If not, I can put together an award template myself....
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  24. #54
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by m0j0mann View Post
    CuRoi's idea seems pretty good. Also, I'm sure there are more decent players out there who would be willing to join. A bit more advertising around the clan forums wouldn't hurt. Secondly, you might want to consider changing the format to increase popularity/activity. From what I hear, most people prefer some form of avatar mode over classic, although I might be wrong on this point.
    Well, the rules do allow for avatar mode, it just needs to be agreed upon by both players beforehand.

    I don't know the clans very well, do we have some volunteers who are willing to do some advertising rounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by m0j0mann View Post
    You got any photoshoppers handy making a victory award/sig/graphic for Season 1? If not, I can put together an award template myself....
    All of our artists have been AWOL for a while. I would love you forever if you created something.


  25. #55
    Emperor of clan GERUDO Member m0j0mann's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Alrighty then:

    Last edited by m0j0mann; 07-29-2011 at 05:37.
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  26. #56
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    That's superb, thanks!

    Would you, or anyone else, be willing to do some rounds to the various clan forums and drum up some interest in Season 2?


  27. #57
    The Puppet King Senior Member AggonyKing's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    can use the power of steam groups as well, not just going around to different forums :P

    "Cuiusvis hominis est errare; nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare."
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  28. #58
    Emperor of clan GERUDO Member m0j0mann's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    That's superb, thanks!

    Would you, or anyone else, be willing to do some rounds to the various clan forums and drum up some interest in Season 2?
    Sorry for taking a while to reply, I don't check .org often. (inb4 heresy, blasphemy etc.)

    I think I can drum up some substantial interest in season 2. There aren't many active tournaments at the moment (only 2 that I know of) and no new ones on the horizon. Speaking for GERUDO, we have a lot of new members interested in taking part in leagues/tournaments, but there aren't any to join.

    I also know people who know people in other clans, and I'm sure they can help as well.

    Seriously though, you need to change the rules from classic mode. Almost all the players who I know of that are active in tournaments at the moment do not like classic mode. I would reccomend avatar mode, with possibly some restrictions on vets, and definitely some restrictions on retainers (World Weary etc.).
    Last edited by m0j0mann; 08-05-2011 at 02:12.
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  29. #59
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Again, Avatar mode defeats the purpose of the Sengoku League, which was designed (and advertised) as a league for balanced play where player skill alone was the deciding factor. I do not like the idea of doing the opposite with the League.

    That said, there's no reason we can't just change the name and do a new league along the lines that you're thinking of. Our automated utility is available for anyone who wants to do it, so if you'd like to get an avatar mode league going, we can do that. I can give you the ability to administer the system like the GMs in the SJL and I'll help you organize it and run it. You're also free to use any portion of our the SJL rules that you would like, and I'll help you restructure the text if that needs to be done. The thing we really need at the moment are people who are interested in taking the lead on running it. I can assist with everything technical and structural, but I'm not an artist and I don't know the community well enough to know who wants what, where to advertise, etc. If you're willing to do some work in organizing it, you can have whatever kind of league you would like.


  30. #60
    Emperor of clan GERUDO Member m0j0mann's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Sengoku Jidai League Discussion Thread

    Ok, I'll come up with a name/ruleset, and then I'll start to talk to people who might be interested in being GMs.
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