EB Online Poll - Changing Elite Unit Size

[vartan]

Hi all,

It has been brought to my attention by a player that elite units, particularly 60-man infantry units on large size, are too costly for the amount of men they bring to the field. The suggestion this player gave me was to maintain the cost, but increase the size by 20 men, making the units 80-men large on large size. Please answer this poll by voting whether you believe the elites should be given 20 more men or not. Note that this poll does not determine whether or not this change is implemented. It is rather a way to measure players' views on this particular matter.

Thank you,
Vartan

EDIT: I forgot to mention. I've set this poll to close in exactly 14 days, helping us determine action to be taken (if any) before July tournament begins.

[-Stormrage-]

elites already cost about 3000, its just ridiculous to have a unit costing this much and ONLY have 60 men, i get that they are elites so you would make them expensive becuase they are elites. But why would you further nerf them to be only 60 men while there are some units out there with 100 and 120 men, so elites would be like a needle in a hay stack of light infantry, they would be flies not elites. you would need a ridiculous amount of money to even form a decent line with these guys.

this has lead to elites not even entering the battle field, 60 elite units for 3000 or 3 light units of 100 for the same price . 60 vs 300 for the same amount of cash doesn't seem fair.

[gamegeek2]

Elites seem to have been costed strangely already, I need to do their costs over.

The best part is, it won't affect replays because cost is irrelevant in replays, so all the summer's replays will be useable on any new EDU made with cost changes.

However, I did actually deliberately alter a few elite stats to make up for the cost imbalance...seems I'll have to correct for that somehow if I want all replays to be compatible.

[antisocialmunky]

Elites seem to have been costed strangely already, I need to do their costs over.

The best part is, it won't affect replays because cost is irrelevant in replays, so all the summer's replays will be useable on any new EDU made with cost changes.

However, I did actually deliberately alter a few elite stats to make up for the cost imbalance...seems I'll have to correct for that somehow if I want all replays to be compatible.

Size is more important than cost. The main issue being that cav destroys infantry quite easily and small units will get swarmed and murdered to death before they can do anything.

[gamegeek2]

OK. At the same time, though, I would take away the attack boost given to elite units. If elite cav get 100 men I suppose it's only fair if elite inf get 160 men.

[cowkiller]

ok they are costly but they are the ELITE- THEY FIGHT AMAZING ON THE BATTLEFIELD- HERE ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER- BY THE TIME YOU HAVE THE FACILITIES TO TRAIN THESE TROOPS, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE FINICAL BACKING TO DO SO- OTHERWISE YOUR NOT GOVERNING YOU CITY'S WELL


( my apologies for writing this in capitals- caps lock left on )

[Ludens]

No offense, cowkiller, but you really are in the wrong thread. This is about multiplayer with the Europa Barbarorum (EB) modification. That's a whole different game from standard single-player R:TW.

[-Stormrage-]

GG2 , Elites are weak because of their low unit count, we are asking for Elites to be strong by giving them 20 men. we want them to have +20 men, you say ok il give them 20 men , were happy , then you add but i have to decrease their attack. WHY?! , your taking us back to square one elites still weak! its like you don't want elites to be used , first their only 60 so you add more men, but you decrease attack,so its like you didn't do anything. They will still be weak maggots. Look normal units 80 men, elites 80 men, and the thing that sperates them is the price one . now you already have elites at a very high price why do you have to go and give them only 60 men, its like your narrowing the border between normal and elite units your making normal units able to stand against elites longer, they are elites they are supposed to be stronger then normals, you dont need to nerf them so that so that normals can compete with them and even beat them. I hope you guys are getting the message, i dont know how clearer i can be , i gave you math i gave you reasoning , your determined to have elites not be elites.

[vartan]

GG2 don't let replay incompatibility affect your decisions. We're not aiming for that anyway.

[antisocialmunky]

Just put the EDU in the zip with the replay pack.

[vartan]

Just put the EDU in the zip with the replay pack.

Or I could be smarter and host all the EDU versions, then have a column alongside replay packs listing which one they're compatible with!

[antisocialmunky]

People are dumb though.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Before this gets implemented there will be play testing to rebalance costs I assume? Some elites are already worthy of roles in armies (ex. Gaesatae, Thracian Elites, Guild Warriors, etc) and I fear that introducing a 33% increase in unit size would unbalance them. As a Baktria player I am aware of the effects even a 60 man Guild Warrior unit can have on enemies. I've had battles where properly used units of these killers rack up over 300 kills and many of those are not just routers.

[vartan]

Before this gets implemented there will be play testing to rebalance costs I assume? Some elites are already worthy of roles in armies (ex. Gaesatae, Thracian Elites, Guild Warriors, etc) and I fear that introducing a 33% increase in unit size would unbalance them. As a Baktria player I am aware of the effects even a 60 man Guild Warrior unit can have on enemies. I've had battles where properly used units of these killers rack up over 300 kills and many of those are not just routers.

This isn't across-the-board elites. The changes are a bit more complicated than that. The thing is, the best testing is provided by the players as they game in tourneys. That's why I'm hoping for July to be official EBO MP EDU v2.1 Guinea Pig Month. I hope everyone understands that nonsense joke.

[Lazy O]

I agree, Guild Warriors already kill more than a 100 men for me in every battle, wont 20 men make it better? And then I dont have to be worried that much about archer fire since I can afford to waste 20 men!!

[-Stormrage-]

elites should have weight on the battle feild, if you know what i mean. i mean my opponent should look to my flan k and he should see a unit of 80 men elites and rethink his strategy, whats happenening now is the enemy is seeing a unit of 60 men and is thinking , nah i can take'em their only 60 men, heck he can just run over them with cav. WE want them to be able to make a strong line.

[antisocialmunky]

I think the issue is mainly for not top-tier assault infantry. Like Rhomphs, Casse Heroes, Nakeds, Guild Warriors, Celtic heavy Sword are quite fine (Rhomphs I could see being modified slightly though since they are expensive for their performance as unlike guilds, they are not hardy), but some of the civilized/celtic/Iberian elite units are kinda flimsy.

[-Stormrage-]

I think ALL Elites should be Increased in Size

[Lazy O]

Then you would have really no chance, as I would be able to beat to a pulp with Indian Guild Warriors alone ( I may have an ancestor among them, who knows?!)

[antisocialmunky]

I've had Indian Guild Warriors beat Pez with guard mode off from the front so.

[gamegeek2]

There was seemingly a mis-statting with some of the two-handed units. I intend to fix this. Guild warriors will have quite a bit less attack, though higher lethality.

[antisocialmunky]

Same lethality as Rhomphs with those axe-swords. I've tried to figure out what that weapon is and it seems like it was a rather heavy straight long Khanda with downward curving tip. Basically has the bashing characteristics of a heavier sword but with an inward curving edge kinda like a Rhomph but gentle.

Or its one of those really heavy Khandas that almost resemble a double edged meat cleaver. Hard to tell just from the in-game model.